Precision Armament EFAB vs. 'New' AFAB Hybrid Muzzle Brake???

[falconman515]

So I am wanting a brake that is not loud like a traditional muzzle brake sold today (was looking at Lantac Dragon).

I am looking to do one thing and one thing only ... Cut Down On Felt Recoil and Muzzle Rise etc. when shooting down my scope so I can see if I hit my bullseye is all!

I have a BCM 16" Mid-Length ELW with supplied Mod0 Compensator ... I notice when I acquire my target through my 14x scope and I shoot ... I lose sight of the target for a second to recoil and rise and I cannot tell if I hit the 3" steel bullseye target in the center of my 10" target At All ... The recoil and rise makes me lose sight for a second so I am not sure where I hit at all most shots.

SO I would like some sort of muzzle brake to reduce this and have a better chance at cutting down this recoil to see my target when I shoot.

BUT I Do Not want something ridiculously loud and obnoxious like most ALL standard side ported muzzle brakes seem to be (For myself and people around me as well ... not a fan of those loud brakes at all)

SO I had asked in another thread what should I be looking at that is a hybrid brake that gives me the reduced felt recoil and climb But at the same time is not loud to to much louder then the standard A2 or current BMC Mod0 compensator.

The choice I ended up with was the EFAB.

So in researching I see they started with the AFAB mini ... then released a improved version somewhat called the EFAB and is great for more SBR's .... BUT now they have a "New" AFAB (not mini) brake that they say takes the original AFAB concept and design and improves upon it with what they learned designing the EFAB ..... SO I would think though the New AFAB may not be light years better or anything, but for my non-sbr 16" Mid-Length ELW BMC barrel AR that the new AFAB would be a perfect choice for my needs and set-up right?

I am Not looking for the flash hider part at all ... so that doesn't matter between the two to me at all.

The ONLY thing I want is the best reduced felt recoil while leaving the sound and blast to a minimal average A2 sound (if it's a bit more I am fine with that... nothing insane you known).

Plus the $40+ dollar savings is nice as well between the two, which could go towards the kinda dumb but I'm sure better accu-washer allignment system they say you must buy along with this (another $25 gone).
And also for my pickyness and how I like these to "look" nice ... I dig the AFAB looks Much more the EFAB, so that is a plus as well for me along with the price tag.
And Also I think the EFAB is larger in diameter to help with the SBR's and I would like a slimmer sleeker brake as well if possible (and with a 16" Middy I don't think I need that large diameter).

SO In Closing .... My question is How does the current EFAB compare now with the "Brand New" All New AFAB model hybrid brake for MY current needs and set-up???

Thanks so much for all the help guys!

[Eurodriver]

SO In Closing .... My question is How does the current EFAB compare now with the "Brand New" All New AFAB model hybrid brake for MY current needs and set-up???


I don't think anyone can answer that aside from the manufacturer. Very few people have either of these brakes. Probably no one has used zero.

Additionally, I just want to opine that "tactical compensators" have officially gone full retard. Does the EFAB have biohazard logos as the ports? Good grief...

[scooter22]

So, you started two threads on this same topic.

I guess the best advice is to just pick one. Trial and error is generally unavoidable in this situation.

[thei3ug]

I don't think anyone can answer that aside from the manufacturer. Very few people have either of these brakes. Probably no one has used zero.

Additionally, I just want to opine that "tactical compensators" have officially gone full retard. Does the EFAB have biohazard logos as the ports? Good grief...

Those are flux capacitors.
Anyhow as far as hybrid devices go, they supposedly don't do poorly. TTAG had a test where they at least attempted to quantify differences in performance, similar to the Tuohy shootout, using a light meter in an indoor range.

[Adrenaline_6]

Did you see the shootout results?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/

The winner (Precision Armament M4-72) of the shootout report says it doesn't really create too obnoxious of a concussion, unlike most. Plus it will save you even more money @$90.

[Uprange41]

Paging Dr. BufordTJustice.

[BufordTJustice]

I haven't shot the AFAB 5.56 (the new version). I have owned several A2's, PWS FSC556, AFAB mini, the Lantac dragon (a flame thrower depending on the ammo), and now the EFAB. I can't opine on the difference between the EFAB and new AFAB 5.56. However, I'd imagine the AFAB would be exactly what you're looking for. No guarantees though as I have no first hand experience with the new AFAB.

[Rayrevolver]

Did you see the shootout results?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/

The winner (Precision Armament M4-72) of the shootout report says it doesn't really create too obnoxious of a concussion, unlike most. Plus it will save you even more money @$90.

I lucked out and found a used VG6 Epsilon long before that test showed how well it worked. And its light too.

That said, my bud bought the M4-72 and the thing blows your hair back when you shoot it! I wasn't expecting that on an 18.

[BufordTJustice]

I don't think anyone can answer that aside from the manufacturer. Very few people have either of these brakes. Probably no one has used zero.

Additionally, I just want to opine that "tactical compensators" have officially gone full retard. Does the EFAB have biohazard logos as the ports? Good grief...
Not to pick a fight, but it's the first muzzle device to have equal or less flash than an A2 (less on an SBR), recoil reduction better than a battlecomp (neck and neck with a KAC MAMS), and blast that is barely worse than an A2 even when indoors.

If you don't like the aesthetic, great. I'd avoid slighting the engineering though.

[falconman515]

So, you started two threads on this same topic.

I guess the best advice is to just pick one. Trial and error is generally unavoidable in this situation.

Really? Not the same topic at all

I wanted to get a consensus in my first thread what most would recommend for my needs and what I was looking for ... Wanted to know what was the best brake was that wasn't loud as hell was all ... That was an open question looking for many different recommendations not anything specific to make or model like this thread.

Once I seen the EFAB was really recommended I came across the AFAB new model after research and wanted to find out about these two brakes Alone and how they compare (especially since most info is on the AFAB-Mini and not the new AFAB (non-mini), nothing else.

But thanks for the reply I guess. :rolleyes:

[falconman515]

I haven't shot the AFAB 5.56 (the new version). I have owned several A2's, PWS FSC556, AFAB mini, the Lantac dragon (a flame thrower depending on the ammo), and now the EFAB. I can't opine on the difference between the EFAB and new AFAB 5.56. However, I'd imagine the AFAB would be exactly what you're looking for. No guarantees though as I have no first hand experience with the new AFAB.


Thanks for info ... I was hoping to get a reply from you as I read through your couple EFAB threads before posting this question.

I am not sure th major difference between the original ATAB-Mini and the new one but since you had the AFAB-Mini and also the EFAB how do they compare?

Would I see a benefit with my setup and needs in going EFAB over the AFAB?

Seems the AFAB is meant more for 16"+ rigs like mine and EFAB more for SBR's.

Just trying to see if there is any justification in spending the extra $40-50 is all.

Thanks a million for all the help and replies. :)

[BufordTJustice]

Thanks for info ... I was hoping to get a reply from you as I read through your couple EFAB threads before posting this question.

I am not sure th major difference between the original ATAB-Mini and the new one but since you had the AFAB-Mini and also the EFAB how do they compare?

Would I see a benefit with my setup and needs in going EFAB over the AFAB?

Seems the AFAB is meant more for 16"+ rigs like mine and EFAB more for SBR's.

Just trying to see if there is any justification in spending the extra $40-50 is all.

Thanks a million for all the help and replies. :)

The EFAB has slightly less blast, is more neutral (AFAB mini had slight muzzle dip in fast strings of fire on my Vltor A5 equipped gun, but not on any others), and creates less additional gas system pressure. The AFAB mini created higher BCG velocities, as do virtually all brakes/comps that have an expansion chamber (battlecomp, dynacomp, Griffin M4SD II, etc.), while the EFAB created no discernible increase in gas system pressure.

Honestly, I think the AFAB 5.56 is right for you. I don't think you'll benefit from the more expensive EFAB.

[Eurodriver]

it's the first muzzle device to have equal or less flash than an A2 (less on an SBR)

Then this thread is moot as the OP lives in California and cannot use a flash hider.

[BufordTJustice]

Then this thread is moot as the OP lives in California and cannot use a flash hider.
The ATF has not ruled it as a flash hider.

[Eurodriver]

The ATF has not ruled it as a flash hider.

And that's great! Until they do, then you're out $160...unless you're the test case.

http://precisionarmament.com/product/efab-hybrid-muzzle-brake/


Combines superior muzzle control with effective flash suppression even on barrels as short as 10 inches.

I mean, hell, the name of the product is the "Enhanced Flash Arresting Brake" and with adverts such as this:

https://precisionarmament.com/v1/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/EFAB-VS-A2-NIGHT-FLASH-TEST-SBR1.jpg

I can't imagine it being a very safe choice for those in unfriendly states.

Additionally, California has a state law regarding flash suppressors and the ATF's opinion means diddly.

[Plasman]

Then this thread is moot as the OP lives in California and cannot use a flash hider.

Horseshit. Do you think CA ARs can't have pistol grips too?



Did you see the shootout results?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-muzzle-brake-shootout-2/

The winner (Precision Armament M4-72) of the shootout report says it doesn't really create too obnoxious of a concussion, unlike most. Plus it will save you even more money @$90.

Trust me, those are NOT fun to be next to. I bought one for my friend for his birthday since he wanted a brake.

[falconman515]

I have no problem in buying this ... I hate this place with a purple passion but this type of brake will be just fine to use in CA.

I have confirmed with Precision Armament the model numbers on these as well ... I wanted to make sure when I ordered it from Brownells I got the "new" AFAB and not the old.

The part# on Brownells site is correct but the title and description still says AFAB-Mini and has old reviews etc.

The old AFAB Mini is A04422
The new AFAB os A04424

I think I have decided to go with the AFAB for my set-up and needs ... like Buford said the extra price is really not gonna be worth it .,.. the AFAB should give me just about everything I'm looking for.

Just wish I did not have to use and buy these damn Accu-washers from PA .... I really do not want to spend $25 more you know.

But I guess to find the correct size for my BCM ELW 16" barrel I need to buy the kit and find out which one fits.

Any info on how these accu-washers work and also how hard the install is???

I am 100% new to brakes and have never installed them or anything ... the accu-washer talk about degrees and indexing and I have ZERO clue what any of that mean.

Any help and suggestions on all of this and install would be greatly appreciated. :)

[BufordTJustice]

I have no problem in buying this ... I hate this place with a purple passion but this type of brake will be just fine to use in CA.

I have confirmed with Precision Armament the model numbers on these as well ... I wanted to make sure when I ordered it from Brownells I got the "new" AFAB and not the old.

The part# on Brownells site is correct but the title and description still says AFAB-Mini and has old reviews etc.

The old AFAB Mini is A04422
The new AFAB os A04424

I think I have decided to go with the AFAB for my set-up and needs ... like Buford said the extra price is really not gonna be worth it .,.. the AFAB should give me just about everything I'm looking for.

Just wish I did not have to use and buy these damn Accu-washers from PA .... I really do not want to spend $25 more you know.

But I guess to find the correct size for my BCM ELW 16" barrel I need to buy the kit and find out which one fits.

Any info on how these accu-washers work and also how hard the install is???

I am 100% new to brakes and have never installed them or anything ... the accu-washer talk about degrees and indexing and I have ZERO clue what any of that mean.

Any help and suggestions on all of this and install would be greatly appreciated. :)
PM me. I'll walk you through it. It's far easier than you think. :)

It's WAY easier than using a crush washer.

[ess45]

I have both the old and new. Feels the same to me. Both rifles are 16" mid but different buffer system.
Using the accu-washer is easy. Just follow the direction. It's a trial and error but no big deal.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/468/18989493924_ce3e9b0fc2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uW37XE)

[falconman515]

PM me. I'll walk you through it. It's far easier than you think. :)

It's WAY easier than using a crush washer.

Awesome ... thanks for the offer to help Buford ... that is greatly appreciated (and will save me money as well so I don't have pay a local gunsmith to do it correctly for me if possible)

[falconman515]

PM me. I'll walk you through it. It's far easier than you think. :)

It's WAY easier than using a crush washer.

PM Sent

AFAB and accu-washers showed up today ... time to get it installed.

Thanks

[turnburglar]

Not to sound like a dick:

But if your having a hard time with the follow through on a 556 gun, you need a better shooting position not the newest thing to hang on your barrel.

[falconman515]

Not to sound like a dick:

But if your having a hard time with the follow through on a 556 gun, you need a better shooting position not the newest thing to hang on your barrel.

Has nothing to do with follow though ... A brake is always a welcome addition to help with muzzle rise and recoil ... why would you not?

I am bench shooting and the kick is almost nothing and I hit the bullseye about every damn time ... I don't have the issue or need a better shooting position ... there is only so many "positions" when sitting at a bench.

I am using a scope and I like to be able to see the shot on steel and if I hit the center 3" steel at long distances ... BUT the recoil is JUST enough to where right after I shoot I Just BARELY miss the round hit the target.

SO I am trying to reduce the muzzle rise and recoil a touch more to maybe be able to see that hit better is all.

It's not really to improve my shooting at all ... just trying to bring down the muzzle a bit is all ... and what do you need to help accomplish that? YEP, A new brake.

So it's not "the newest thing to hang on a barrel" ... it serves a purpose ... why do you think 90+% of shooters have it?

I only buy stuff to serve a purpose ... well that's not true I do like $#!t that just kinda looks cool too sometimes. :)

[Adrenaline_6]

Trust me, those are NOT fun to be next to. I bought one for my friend for his birthday since he wanted a brake.

Good to know. Thanks. I guess when the report says compared to other brakes, it might not be as obnoxious as other brakes, but still not fun in general.

[falconman515]

Got my new AFAB muzzle brake installed today along with the accu-washer system.

Looks KILLER and I hope it helps with muzzle rise and recoil and still be not loud and obnoxious like other brakes on the market.

Thanks so much for all the help and info guys and a special thank to Buford for answering a bunch of my questions with this brake and install (though I had to have a local gun shop do the install, vise just wouldn't hold it, so another 25 bucks in on this :( )

Here is a couple pics ...............

http://i.imgur.com/pJ4like.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/mRh31Ky.jpg?1

[falconman515]

AWESOME Muzzle Brake!!!!! :dance3:

Very easy to keep scope on target now ... highly reduced muzzle rise and recoil control and not to much louder then the current BCM Mod0 Comp I had on it before and looks great.

It seriously gave me Everything I was looking for in a new muzzle brake!

Thanks for all the help guys! ;)

[BufordTJustice]

AWESOME Muzzle Brake!!!!! :dance3:

Very easy to keep scope on target now ... highly reduced muzzle rise and recoil control and not to much louder then the current BCM Mod0 Comp I had on it before and looks great.

It seriously gave me Everything I was looking for in a new muzzle brake!

Thanks for all the help guys! ;)
Good to hear!

Precision Armament really did their homework with the EFAB and AFAB 556.

[falconman515]

Good to hear!

Precision Armament really did their homework with the EFAB and AFAB 556.

They sure did ... Thanks again for all the information and help Brother .... very much appreciated.

[BufordTJustice]

They sure did ... Thanks again for all the information and help Brother .... very much appreciated.
Happy to help. God knows I have grown tired of the muzzle device merry go round.

Started with the A2, FSC556, Smith Vortex, PA AFAB MINI, Lantac Dragon, tested the KAC MAMS/griffon M4SDII flash comp/BattleComp/BCM comp, and ended up with the EFAB. I think there were some others too, but I can't recall them right now.

I bought all of the above but the MAMS, BC, M4SDII, and BCM comp. Extensive shooting on each. Finally, a series of muzzle devices that live up to their marketing claims!

[Tomac]

Any idea why PA says crush washers are verboten?
Tomac

[titsonritz]

Any idea why PA says crush washers are verboten?
Tomac

From the web site:

Crush washers are perfectly acceptable to use on any open aperture muzzle device, such as the standard A2 birdcage flash hider. However, our opinion is they should never be used on any baffle style muzzle device where the clearance hole is only slightly larger than the bullet. Firstly, crush washers come to a knife edge on both mating surfaces - it is likely for this reason that a muzzle device is already misaligned just sitting on the crush washer before it is even torqued down. More importantly, it relies on the principle that the washer will deform uniformly while it is being crushed. This requires that the material is uniform and that you apply a perfectly pure torque load normal to the bore. This is very unlikely (for anyone who has installed one) when you're putting all your might into the 30-60 ft-lbs of torque they often require. The consequence of this misalignment is a baffle strike at worse and impaired accuracy at best.

We recommend our Accu-Washer Shim System for installation as they alleviate both of these issues providing the highest safety and performance from your device. Also, a peel washer or any precision multi-shim system are also perfectly acceptable methods for aligning your muzzle device.

Also consider that crush washers have the capacity to deform further beyond your install. So, if you happen to hit the muzzle on something with enough force you may permanently angle your device to the side killing your accuracy or worse: rendering the rifle useless.

[plouffedaddy]

Any idea why PA says crush washers are verboten?
Tomac

Likely due to tight machining tolerances; same reason as suppressor companies use...

http://i.imgur.com/CilgYgNl.jpg

[BufordTJustice]

Likely due to tight machining tolerances; same reason as suppressor companies use...

http://i.imgur.com/CilgYgNl.jpg
Bingo, Mike. Bingo.

They're bad for any enclosed, precision muzzle device. I suspect BC's spat of muzzle baffle strikes is due to the use of crush washers...

[BufordTJustice]

Also, I'm interested to see one of your always-entertaining videos of your impressions of the EFAB. :)

[morpheus562]

Sorry for the necropost, but looking at getting one of these for my 16" SR15. These have been around for a few years now, and I'm wondering what users' feedback and experiences are between the two? From what I've read, there shouldn't be too much difference considering it is going on a 16" rifle. Is this the case, or is the EFAB noticeably superior than the AFAB on a 16" rifle?

I'm dissapointed in the closed tine warcomp that I'm currently running.

[BufordTJustice]

Sorry for the necropost, but looking at getting one of these for my 16" SR15. These have been around for a few years now, and I'm wondering what users' feedback and experiences are between the two? From what I've read, there shouldn't be too much difference considering it is going on a 16" rifle. Is this the case, or is the EFAB noticeably superior than the AFAB on a 16" rifle?

I'm dissapointed in the closed tine warcomp that I'm currently running.

I have owned both and just installed a newer AFAB on a buddy's gun that I built for him.

They both work fantastically well but I say go AFAB for the price.


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[Bolverk93]

I currently own both. They are both on 14.5's. I really can't tell the difference in performance in flash suppression or recoil mitigation.

I am happy with both.

[titsonritz]

I have owned both and just installed a newer AFAB on a buddy's gun that I built for him.

They both work fantastically well but I say go AFAB for the price.


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I pick up the EFAB after reading some of your reviews on the EFAB and AFAB. I honestly went for the EFAB over the AFAB base on looks and whatever slight improvement it had over the AFAB. It performs as great as it looks IMO, I love and don't regret spending the extra coin.

[Dr. Bullseye]

How does either the EFAB or AFAB compare to the Precision Armament M4-72? The latter won the muzzle break shoot off competition. It is loud, is that your only objection? Also, the issue of being a flash hider is going to be in the eyes of California law enforcement (I understand the OP is in CA). A LEO walking up to where ever you are shooting may not be up on all the subtle points and this thing has three spikes and certainly looks like a flash hider. If it is not according to the ATF, you might still be involved in a courtroom setting establishing this. And maybe an Appeals Court. California is going case by case, device by device.

[BufordTJustice]

How does either the EFAB or AFAB compare to the Precision Armament M4-72? The latter won the muzzle break shoot off competition. It is loud, is that your only objection? Also, the issue of being a flash hider is going to be in the eyes of California law enforcement (I understand the OP is in CA). A LEO walking up to where ever you are shooting may not be up on all the subtle points and this thing has three spikes and certainly looks like a flash hider. If it is not according to the ATF, you might still be involved in a courtroom setting establishing this. And maybe an Appeals Court. California is going case by case, device by device.

Loud doesn't fully or accurately describe the M4-72. It really rattles you in a concussive and seismic way that neither the EFAB not AFAB do. Part of this is bone conduction (and I see exactly zero people talking about this), which is where the physical vibrations in the air are SO intense that they literally shake your body/bone structure.

Then there is the absurdly intense localized pressure wave that will, literally, clear your sinuses.

A 16" barrel with an open baffled brake like that is significantly less pleasant to shoot (or to have as a range neighbor) than a 10.5" SBR with no muzzle device.

The improvement in recoil reduction of the M4-72 (and brakes of like design such as SF, Lantac Dragon, SiCo, etc) is far too small to warrant the exponential increase in full spectrum signature (blast, audible report, flash, etc) and shooter discomfort to warrant their use on an uncovered muzzle.

Granted, I use the SiCo triple port brake on my 11.5" SBR. However, ONLY to act as a sacrificial blast baffle for my SiCo SpecWar 566. The can lives on the gun. I only shot it once without the can and it was fu**ing stupid. Even outside with double ear pro.

The AFAB and EFAB have essentially invalidated virtually every other brands on the market for any non competitive use because they actually DELIVER on their promised flash performance and are virtually indistinguishable from am A2 unless indoors. And even then they're the best/least-blasty brakes/comps on the market.

Their ONLY downside is they are expensive and relatively heavy.

The only other device (of which I am aware) that is in the same neighborhood is the KAC MAMS.


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[devinsdad]

I went with the AFAB on my 11.5" SBR. The TTAG shootout was really interesting and although the M-72 "won", the AFAB was a solid middle in both tests. What swayed me was that the evaluator picked the AFAB to put on his own rifle. All those devices, yet he choose the AFAB. Not as loud as a Battlecomp, more performance than an A2...and, it just plain looks good as well. Good luck, the amount of brakes, comps, concussion redirection devices is overwhelming.

[BufordTJustice]

Any idea why PA says crush washers are verboten?
Tomac

Because they literally never crush evenly around their circumference. And the PA devices have a smaller than normal inner bore diameter. So a slight misalignment can result in a baffle/bore strike. Same reason suppressor makers prohibit the use of crush washers.


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[morpheus562]

Just had a chance to run the AFAB on my SR15 Mod 1. Wow. Not sure who at Precision Armament sold their soul to a crossroads demon, but they make an amazing muzzle device.

[Stickman]

Just had a chance to run the AFAB on my SR15 Mod 1. Wow. Not sure who at Precision Armament sold their soul to a crossroads demon, but they make an amazing muzzle device.



What other muzzle devices have you used and can compare it to? Just curious as I have no used one that I can recall.

[morpheus562]

What other muzzle devices have you used and can compare it to? Just curious as I have no used one that I can recall.

A2, BCM Gunfighter Comps Mod 0 and 1, Spikes Dynacomp, Surefire MB556K and Warcomp Closed Tine (really hated this one on my SR15), and SilencerCo Brake are the comps/brakes I've owned and used. I previously had the SilencerCo brake on the rifle. The AFAB felt like it didn't control the muzzle stabilization quite as well as the brake; however, the AFAB didnt have any of the associated concussion or muzzle flash. I couldn't tell the difference in concussion between the AFAB on my 16" SR15 and my A2 equiped 14.5" Colt M4 that I shot back to back. Noticeable difference in felt recoil/muzzle stabilization though.

[gaijin]

I run EFAB’s on a couple guns. Pretty good trade off of “lessened muzzle blast but still effective “.
PA’s m4-72 comp is the most effective I’ve used, shoots extremely flat.
However the concussion/muzzle blast is over the top.

[BufordTJustice]

I run EFAB’s on a couple guns. Pretty good trade off of “lessened muzzle blast but still effective “.
PA’s m4-72 comp is the most effective I’ve used, shoots extremely flat.
However the concussion/muzzle blast is over the top.

It's all about balance. Everything is a trade off when designing a muzzle device.

The AFAB/EFAB have been the best balance of recoil reduction, reduction of axial muzzle movement, and true flash reduction.

The only other devices to which I could compare it would be the KAC MAMS (more flash) and the SF Warcomp (more recoil/muzzle movement).

Now PA just needs to start making suppressor mount versions!!! I've been pestering them about this for a while now. In this case, "a while now" = more than two years.


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