View Full Version : Glock 23 Rear sight far right, how much is too much?
Mid 40's here and struggling with "old man" vision so have been testing a few different types of sights. Wasn't getting great groups with my Gen4 G23 last year and put it away. Attributed it to the Ameriglo ICE rear sight with the HUGE .180 rear and fat dot front.
Moving on I just got a new set of 10-8's, .140 notch and .100 fiber optic front! Woo hoo, was looking forward to actually getting a little more precision out of this setup. Meticulously installed and centered with parallel bars and calipers, front and rear centered within (.003). Off to the range today and shoot 25yrds off my bag. Not looking for bullseye groups but just to get centered and hopefully keeping them in the black. What I found was I was just about 5" to the left. :blink: I moved them about .030 to the right and am still about 1.5" left of center. It's starting to look wonky, at least from the top. I've always needed a small adjustment off of center (long time Glock shooter) but I think it's going to end up being about .040-.050, it seems like an awful lot. I'm almost thinking about cocking the front to the opposite direction intentionally to see if I can get the rear a little closer to center?
Great sight picture and the thinner front sight is definitely an improvement.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/Glock23_25yrds.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/Glock23_25yrds.jpg.html)
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/Glock_rearview.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/Glock_rearview.jpg.html)
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/topview.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/topview.jpg.html)
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/10_8_sight_picture.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/10_8_sight_picture.jpg.html)
Judging by the POI, I am guessing you are right handed. Before touching the sights, I would try moving my trigger finger in until the crease for the distal joint barely touches the right side of the trigger. I have seen a shooter switching to this technique move POI as much as 5" to the right at 25 yards.
Judging by the POI, I am guessing you are right handed. Before touching the sights, I would try moving my trigger finger in until the crease for the distal joint barely touches the right side of the trigger. I have seen a shooter switching to this technique move POI as much as 5" to the right at 25 yards.
That's pretty much my spot already (short fingers) and yes right handed. Never had a problem qualifying with older G23 and/or issued G22 (switched to M&P's quite a few years ago). I have to say that the new Gen 4 (as compared to my Gen3 G27) has quite the stiff trigger (standard connector and spring). The little dimple on the Gen4 trigger bar to help keep center on the plunger seems to create a lot of drag. The gun is pretty much new with only a few hundred rounds, maybe I should dryfire it a few thousand times and concentrate a little harder. Never had problems getting at least in the black at 25.
Then again maybe I'm spoiled shooting my PPQ, it's almost effortless to get great hits at distance with that trigger.
For a lot of people trigger finger placement is the issue, but it may not be in your case. If you can do the dime drill successfully 10 times in a row, then the issue is sight adjustment.
Update - I bought a Glock 43 today and had to push the rear sight 0.025" right of center to zero the windage for my carry ammunition. That would be typical of most the handguns I own due to the fact I shoot with my non-dominant eye.
As long as the rear sight is inside the dovetail, I don't think being off center is something to worry about.
Thanks for the replies, I've been taking some time and practicing the core fundamentals. There is a definite disruption when the striker falls, I don't know how to fix that other than a new trigger or system. I'm planning on going back to the range and shoot some 10 shot strings off a rest made up of whatever I can cobble together and see where this gun is hitting.
Took awhile and dry fired the living daylights out of it, trying numerous grips and finger positions. Read hours of posts regarding each. Still get a huge amount of sight upset regardless of position(s). No problem with the penny drill, in fact I don't think my trigger breaks have ever been better, but man the overtravel and gen4 trigger is like a different gun.
Left the G23 at home and decided just to concentrate on the G35 as it has a marginally better trigger (both gen4's). Surprisingly almost the same results?? Sights are centered within a few thou and at 25yrds still are left. At 50 ft a little closer but I honestly don't think I can work the trigger any better than I currently am. I've been a Glock guy almost my whole shooting life and even used a G22 for action shooting, but now??? I'm not expecting hardball bullseye type results but less a complete aftermarket trigger system I'm about ready to put them both on the chopping block.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/g35.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/g35.jpg.html)
diving dave
08-05-15, 13:06
Great choice of sights, I love the 10-8's. I find if I run the same trigger finger placement that I shoot just about everything else with, I always get left of center hits with my Glocks. I have to push alot more trigger finger in there .
I use plain black 10-8's and my eyes are getting old, but I can print sub three inch groups at 25 yards. With your groups about double that it suggests trigger control not the sights being the issue. Make sure you are managing the trigger properly shooting to reset.
I use plain black 10-8's and my eyes are getting old, but I can print sub three inch groups at 25 yards. With your groups about double that it suggests trigger control not the sights being the issue. Make sure you are managing the trigger properly shooting to reset.
There's two separate groups on that target. The far left group is at 25yrds (left circle of 7 rnds) is only 3.25 from center to center, granted it's a little vertically strung but it's not double that. The 50ft group (the shots in the black) I ripped off a little faster and even so only opens op to no more than 4.25, again vertically strung. This gun has the Wilson Combat Vickers sights on it, they're pretty good but not quite as nice as the 10-8 setup.
I just ordered Ameriglo CAP sights for my Glock and will follow up with whether or not the rear sight is centered once the weapon is zeroed. I suspect rear sight offset will be about the same as with OEM sights.
I just ordered Ameriglo CAP sights for my Glock and will follow up with whether or not the rear sight is centered once the weapon is zeroed. I suspect rear sight offset will be about the same as with OEM sights.
I've wondered about the square, I follow Dave's videos but never pulled the trigger on the square sights. I do have the "Hackathorn's" on a couple M&P's; Hard to miss that front!
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/20140813-DSC_1965-2.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/20140813-DSC_1965-2.jpg.html)
Howdy MStarmer,
The problem isn't in your sights it's in your trigger finger, trigger pull and grip.
I've been shooting Glocks for over 23 years and I've seen numerous Glock shooters do the same thing.
Myself, if I'm shooting fast I have a tendency to shoot low and left even after sending over a 100,000 rounds downrange out of various Glocks.
Paul
Linea_de_Fuego
08-07-15, 21:39
Howdy MStarmer,
The problem isn't in your sights it's in your trigger finger, trigger pull and grip.
I've been shooting Glocks for over 23 years and I've seen numerous Glock shooters do the same thing.
Myself, if I'm shooting fast I have a tendency to shoot low and left even after sending over a 100,000 rounds downrange out of various Glocks.
Paul
This post is right on. This issue was discussed in a thread where I replaced the sights and had the same difficulty as the OP. If the sights are centered and the pistol is in a Ransom rest the pistol will shoot to POA. So this platform is unique. It takes some effort and training from the shooter to have it perform well.
Bought my first Glock close to 25yrs ago too (original G17) and never had this problem until these Gen 4's. I need to take the backstraps with me to the range and shoot with each and see if they make a difference? Reminds me of when my agency went from personally owned weapons to everyone got issued G22's (gen 3) and 8# connectors. Qualifying was a nightmare, eventually we went back to the standard connectors. Obviously it's me, between two different guns but it's disturbing. Guess I've ruined my trigger discipline after shooting and carrying my PPQ for the last year.
titsonritz
08-08-15, 19:27
Shooting some groups left-handed should determine whether it is a trigger control issue.
I installed Ameriglo CAP sights and took the G43 to the range. I had the rear sight dead center in the dovetail and the pistol shot 124g Gold Dot Hollow Point 2" to the left at 26 yards. I adjusted the sight to zero windage and the rear sight is now 0.010" right of center. I fired some drills and rapid sight acquisition is greatly improved.
A note about the Ameriglo sights is that POI is 2-3/4" low at 26 yards, which I don't like. I would rather have a pistol hit 5" high at 25 yards than 2" low. If you shoot out of the notch at 15 yards and closer, times are dramatically improved over times with OEM Glock sights.
Aren't the CAP sights zeroed behind the square? I seem to recall one or two of Dave's videos explaining that it's bullets behind, not on top of the post for the CAP and TCAP sights.
Aren't the CAP sights zeroed behind the square? I seem to recall one or two of Dave's videos explaining that it's bullets behind, not on top of the post for the CAP and TCAP sights.
There was no information in the package with the sights. What you say about the sights makes sense, because I had to cover what I wanted to hit with the front sight.
Check out the vid on the TCAP at 3:50 he explains the design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEBxxzfQEdA
Check out the vid on the TCAP at 3:50 he explains the design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEBxxzfQEdA
Thank you for the link to the video, that explains what I experienced with the CAP sights. I shot again this morning to fine tune the rear sight windage on the G43 with my current defensive ammunition. I did 4 things to enhance my ability to shoot decent groups. I wore 0.5 power safety glasses to sharpen the view of the front sight, shot from the kneeling position, rested my hands on top of a shovel driven into the ground and shot at my pistol zero target. I made the pistol zero target by cutting off the bottom half of a SR-1 on the computer and printing the target. The target looks like someone folded a SR-1 in two with the flat part at the bottom. This allows you to get perfect windage alignment. Before you staple the target to the backboard, you place a level along the flat to make sure shots hitting above and below the POA are plumb. This gives you good reference for sight corrections.
I fired Federal HST 124g HP and was surprised by the accuracy. Three shots at 15 yards grouped 3/8" Wide x 1" high and three shots at 25 yards grouped 1" wide x 2" high. POI was - 1-1/4" at 15 yards and -6" at 25 yards when aligning the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and holding on the flat of the sighting target. I calculated sight correction at 25 yards to be 0.034". The center of the tritium vial on the front sight is 0.034" from the top, which confirms what Dave said about the CAP sights in the video. I ditched the shovel and magnified safety glasses, then fired a few more shots. POI was roughly -3" at 25 yards when shooting offhand.
When I was satisfied that the windage was correct, I measure the position of the rear sight in the dovetail. The rear sight is now 0.019" right of center and well within the confines of the dovetail.
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