View Full Version : Do you think Israel would allow Iran to get the Bomb?
alvincullumyork
07-22-15, 18:31
My liberal friends are falling all over themselves about how great dear leaders Iran deal is and my conservative friends say it's the end times. It seems to me that it doesn't really matter. I thought Israel has been covertly sabotaging Iranian nuclear aspirations for some time now, key scientists go missing, labs catch fire... and so on.
And if Iran does get the bomb would Israel really sit idly by and wait for Iran to hit them first?
Am I wrong?
Israel cannot afford to allow any other country in their part of the world to strike first. Once Israel strikes Iran, we are going to get sucked into World War III. It may not happen within days, but it will happen.
Israel cannot afford to allow any other country in their part of the world to strike first. Once Israel strikes Iran, we are going to get sucked into World War III. It may not happen within days, but it will happen.
This^...If Israel takes a run at Iran, this is exactly what will happen..And unlike WWII where the U.S. suffered virtually no damage, this time around we'll get hit..hard.. Might not be a bad idea to start reading up on building a bomb shelter..
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-22-15, 20:46
Nope.
The Saudi's will 'let' them bomb them and make lots of noise afterwards but do nothing. The Russians are going to go full attack over Iran, Shiite no.
Israel cannot afford to allow any other country in their part of the world to strike first. Once Israel strikes Iran, we are going to get sucked into World War III. It may not happen within days, but it will happen.
Exactly. Israel is entirely too compact to allow anybody to strike first, or even to let somebody to have the option of a first nuclear strike option. A single nuke strike would devastate the country.
Israel has been slowing down the Iranian program for years, but it's become apparent that they can't stop it via subterfuge, or diplomacy. That leaves the military option, and while it's hardly ideal, I think it's only a matter of time before they act.
I would say arm up if they do but if the bomb comes into play, we will be SOL.
Israel simply isn't up to the task of actually invading and occupying- the only medicine that would actually stop a bomb. Aerial campaigns would actually push Iran to acquire a bomb.
As far as using their massive arsenal to maintain absolute nuclear hegemony in a first strike nuclear attack and potentially killing millions to make sure that Iran never builds one weapon, I doubt it. Their best and only real shot was to wag the dog and get the U.S. to do their dirty work.
Besides, how would the U.S. react to that? First strike nukes is something we literally pull our hair out and wail hysterically that Iran might do. If Israel uncorks are we then supposed to cover their asses and pretend that they had to do it?
Israel simply isn't up to the task of actually invading and occupying- the only medicine that would actually stop a bomb. Aerial campaigns would actually push Iran to acquire a bomb.
Seemed to work in Iraq and Syria, where as this administration's method's predecessor in North Korea was a colossal failure.
Muslims have no problems killing other Muslims. Ask anyone who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan. Should Iran get nukes, my thought it that they may decide on the ultimate gamble and use it against Israel. There will be no second thoughts about other Muslim casualties, fall out spreading into Jordan, Lebanon or elsewhere.
I think that Israel looks at this POV and will have to decide if a first strike is their best option. It's anyone's guess what is going to happen. One thing for sure is that we made the stupidest deal in the world, with a country that we cannot trust, and is a sponsor of terrorist groups. Our continued weakness is just making things worse.
Averageman
07-23-15, 08:26
Muslims have no problems killing other Muslims. Ask anyone who has been to Iraq or Afghanistan. Should Iran get nukes, my thought it that they may decide on the ultimate gamble and use it against Israel. There will be no second thoughts about other Muslim casualties, fall out spreading into Jordan, Lebanon or elsewhere.
I think that Israel looks at this POV and will have to decide if a first strike is their best option. It's anyone's guess what is going to happen. One thing for sure is that we made the stupidest deal in the world, with a country that we cannot trust, and is a sponsor of terrorist groups. Our continued weakness is just making things worse.
I would hope that the Saudi's will strike first.
That might be the only way to avoid an all out exchange between the three major players. I can see Russia having it's hands tied if the Saudi's decided to take action, but if Israel does, not so much.
Israel simply isn't up to the task of actually invading and occupying- the only medicine that would actually stop a bomb. Aerial campaigns would actually push Iran to acquire a bomb.
As far as using their massive arsenal to maintain absolute nuclear hegemony in a first strike nuclear attack and potentially killing millions to make sure that Iran never builds one weapon, I doubt it. Their best and only real shot was to wag the dog and get the U.S. to do their dirty work.
Besides, how would the U.S. react to that? First strike nukes is something we literally pull our hair out and wail hysterically that Iran might do. If Israel uncorks are we then supposed to cover their asses and pretend that they had to do it?
Pretty much, and we'll do it too, that's how we'll get sucked in...
Doc Safari
07-23-15, 09:03
The Iran deal has done nothing more than touch off a nuclear arms race in the middle east. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Qatar...will all have to have nukes now.
Israel may have waited too long to attack Iran. I understand there is a provision in the Iran deal that forces the US to defend Iran from any attacks on their nuclear sites. That puts us in a position to have to shoot down Israeli planes.
KalashniKEV
07-23-15, 09:15
I would hope that the Saudi's will strike first.
I'm still waiting on us to strike Saudi... what has it been now, 14 years since 9/11?
WickedWillis
07-23-15, 10:43
I'm still waiting on us to strike Saudi... what has it been now, 14 years since 9/11?
We both know that will never happen.
Moose-Knuckle
07-23-15, 14:33
I'm still waiting on us to strike Saudi... what has it been now, 14 years since 9/11?
Them and the UAE.
Moose-Knuckle
07-23-15, 14:36
Mossad will make it look like an accident, Iran will experience a "China Syndrome" no doubt.
Well that or implement a false flag against the West and make it look like Iran so we do the heavy lifting for them.
Seemed to work in Iraq and Syria
From this thread:https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167461-Why-Don-t-We-Let-Israel-Negotiate-The-Iranian-Nuclear-Issue
Because Iran and the key targets inside Iran are much further than what they hit in Iraq and Syria and they would have to fly through a lot of hostile airspace. It would be a very costly undertaking. Their jets don't have the range to make it without the tankers.
And what country in the region is going to grant Israeli tankers and fighters permission to enter their airspace for an attack that everybody in the region would know is on Iran?
Israel's only chance is to do something clandestine. They can't stop Iran with overt air strikes unless they make it a suicide mission and even then there is no guarantee of success. At most they would only set them back a few more years. And that's assuming Iran doesn't already have a weapon completed that they just haven't tested yet.
ColtSeavers
07-23-15, 17:22
Israel simply isn't up to the task of actually invading and occupying- the only medicine that would actually stop a bomb. Aerial campaigns would actually push Iran to acquire a bomb.
As far as using their massive arsenal to maintain absolute nuclear hegemony in a first strike nuclear attack and potentially killing millions to make sure that Iran never builds one weapon, I doubt it. Their best and only real shot was to wag the dog and get the U.S. to do their dirty work.
Besides, how would the U.S. react to that? First strike nukes is something we literally pull our hair out and wail hysterically that Iran might do. If Israel uncorks are we then supposed to cover their asses and pretend that they had to do it?
We'd handle the same way we handled Egypt's military coup of course.
Mossad will make it look like an accident, Iran will experience a "China Syndrome" no doubt.
Well that or implement a false flag against the West and make it look like Iran so we do the heavy lifting for them.
From this thread:https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167461-Why-Don-t-We-Let-Israel-Negotiate-The-Iranian-Nuclear-Issue
Israel's only chance is to do something clandestine. They can't stop Iran with overt air strikes unless they make it a suicide mission and even then there is no guarantee of success. At most they would only set them back a few more years. And that's assuming Iran doesn't already have a weapon completed that they just haven't tested yet.
Since the Iranian facilities are thought to be too deep for conventional "bunker buster bombs" there are, as mentioned, numerous options:
1. Tactical Nuclear Strike to destroy Iranian underground facilities.
- Quick research shows many stories of Obama disallowing airspace over Iraq.
- Israel would have to thread the gauntlet likely to fly the mission.
- It would be pretty obvious it was Israel. But then again, they have balls (like it or not in various circumstances to hit it hard).
2. As mentioned above, the other option would be to obscure the attack as an accident.
- This takes an awe full lot of time, planning and "seeding".
- Israel in all likelihood may not have the necessary agents to achieve this within the critical time period.
3. False Flag - oh boy.
Either way of the three (or more I missed) - I do NOT believe for ONE second Israel will allow Iran to reach fruition of their ushering in of the 12th Imam. Something is going to happen. It will be nukes - just from which side and to whom?
Anyone who thinks Iran's program is for energy is an idiot. There is one goal with these types. Would you allow the imminent death of your family?
I would imagine Mosad doing something in the shadows. They have already disappeared a couple Iranian scientists, what's a few dozen more. Accidental melt down, a small Iranian Chernobyl.
From this thread:https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167461-Why-Don-t-We-Let-Israel-Negotiate-The-Iranian-Nuclear-Issue
Israel's only chance is to do something clandestine. They can't stop Iran with overt air strikes unless they make it a suicide mission and even then there is no guarantee of success. At most they would only set them back a few more years. And that's assuming Iran doesn't already have a weapon completed that they just haven't tested yet.
I strongly suspect it wasn't just North Koreans funding and building missiles and bombs in North Korea.
The Iran deal has done nothing more than touch off a nuclear arms race in the middle east. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Qatar...will all have to have nukes now.
Israel may have waited too long to attack Iran. I understand there is a provision in the Iran deal that forces the US to defend Iran from any attacks on their nuclear sites. That puts us in a position to have to shoot down Israeli planes.
I'm not sure any of you actually understand 'the Iran deal'. Are we not aware of the restrictions and inspections?
Is this just another case of us just knowing that Iran will do X, Y, and Z? Based on misinterpreted musings from a religious rally ten years ago?
There is a tremendous amount of pressure within Iran to get the economy moving and start to undo the damage the sanctions have done to their citizens. This deal allows the govt. to stay in power, eases the misery of ordinary Iranians and doesn't force them to absolutely give up their right to pursue scientific nuclear technology- something they were never going to do.
Yet, here we are, the mighty and righteous United States grudgingly allowing them to enrich to five percent, showering money on Israel and its massive nuclear arsenal, threatening to abrogate our own treaty for political considerations if we elect any of the GOP candidates and participating in our sixth armed M.E. operation in fifteen years- now actively helping the Saudi's destroy Yemen on the pretense of fighting a proxy war against the Iranians.
Try to imagine what it must be like to sit down and deal with a nation acting as described above and then be lectured about peace.
S
There is one goal with these types. Would you allow the imminent death of your family?
That's an interesting and often repeated argument that simply doesn't respect the facts in the M.E. Iran actively pursues interests opposed to ours in their region. They are intractable yet predictable.
Basing an entire hyperventilating rush to war on the myth that they are a martyr state when the evidence is they are a modest regional power acting in their interests is incredibly- murderously- irresponsible.
I'm not sure any of you actually understand 'the Iran deal'. Are we not aware of the restrictions and inspections?
Oooooh.....inspections. You mean like when the UN tried to verify the status of Saddam's arsenal? Those kind of inspections?
I guess if they don't full comply we can always use SANCTIONS against them. That might laugh them to death.
Or maybe we can support a general uprising of the population that is opposed to the current leadership, they can organize another "muslim spring" government and then some other radical Islamic group can come steamroll through half the country taking control of arms and oil fields and possibly nuclear facilities.
You flippantly ask people if they simply "don't understand" this or that. You don't seem to appreciate that we all understand very well. In fact, we've seen this movie before already a few times. We know how it ends.
That's an interesting and often repeated argument that simply doesn't respect the facts in the M.E. Iran actively pursues interests opposed to ours in their region. They are intractable yet predictable.
Basing an entire hyperventilating rush to war on the myth that they are a martyr state when the evidence is they are a modest regional power acting in their interests is incredibly- murderously- irresponsible.
Just wow.
http://i.imgur.com/2sWBunV.jpg
They have already demonstrated that they will send their children to war in human wave attacks against fortified Iraqi positions.
How much more "martyr state" evidence do you require?
This wasn't 1,000 years ago like the Crusades. This wasn't 100 years ago. This was in the 1980s, it's the SAME government, it's many of the same people still in charge.
Do you honestly believe that if Iran had nuclear weapons during the Iran / Iraq war that they WOULDN'T have used them?
That's an interesting and often repeated argument that simply doesn't respect the facts in the M.E. Iran actively pursues interests opposed to ours in their region. They are intractable yet predictable.
Basing an entire hyperventilating rush to war on the myth that they are a martyr state when the evidence is they are a modest regional power acting in their interests is incredibly- murderously- irresponsible.
Maybe I was unclear. I did not mean to state anything of the sort. I absolutely wish to not go to war. This was a failure many years in the coming.
If one looks at at and "tries" (I'm a western Chrisitan - so there is that) to understand Iranian policy from both a political and religious standpoint - I still seem to see the radical Shia tewelver attitude as the doctrine of "it is your duty to hasten the destruction of the world" as a mighty powerful tool for certain folks. Nothing has the propaganda power of religion.
I strongly suspect it wasn't just North Koreans funding and building missiles and bombs in North Korea.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit that after the ink is dried on this "deal" there is a test detonation in Iran.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-23-15, 23:27
I'm not sure any of you actually understand 'the Iran deal'. Are we not aware of the restrictions and inspections?
Is this just another case of us just knowing that Iran will do X, Y, and Z? Based on misinterpreted musings from a religious rally ten years ago?
There is a tremendous amount of pressure within Iran to get the economy moving and start to undo the damage the sanctions have done to their citizens. This deal allows the govt. to stay in power, eases the misery of ordinary Iranians and doesn't force them to absolutely give up their right to pursue scientific nuclear technology- something they were never going to do.
Do you know how else they could have kick started their economy? Stopped bitching about the great satan, stop trying to build a bomb, and focus on their economy? But your right, it's purely scientific.
Yet, here we are, the mighty and righteous United States grudgingly allowing them to enrich to five percent,
F it, not only should we let them enrich but maybe lets help them. I mean it's not like they have sworn to wipe certain parts of the world off the map.....oh shit....wait.....
showering money on Israel and its massive nuclear arsenal, threatening to abrogate our own treaty for political considerations if we elect any of the GOP candidates and participating in our sixth armed M.E. operation in fifteen years- now actively helping the Saudi's destroy Yemen on the pretense of fighting a proxy war against the Iranians.
Maybe that says something more about the region than anything else?
Try to imagine what it must be like to sit down and deal with a nation acting as described above and then be lectured about peace.
Try to imagine negotiating with a country that keeps chanting "death to America and the great satan" every 15 seconds and you can't get a fing word in.
Seriously dude? Yes, yes we get it. America is bad and the middle east is a peace loving region just wanting to live in harmony with their neighbors and have a strong economy. I mean, just look at all of the shining examples in that beautiful region.
Where are we digging these guys up lately? Did we have a recruitment drive at Berkley and I didn't get the memo?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.