HELP.... VP9 or PPQ? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

Toecheese

07-22-15, 21:02

Basically the same gun except for the mag release. I prefer the VP9 Mag release to the current PPQ which has been crippled up to cater to gunshop polling. But I would call it a total draw between the first gen PPQ and the VP9

Basically not the same gun in the slightest, and the PPQ comes in two magazine release variants (M1, M2) not old and "current" as you mentioned........I own both (PPQ 5" with Dawson Precision sights see below) and can undeniably recommend them both. The ergonomics on the VP are slightly better for my hand, the sights are far better (PPQ has horrific stock sights) but I prefer the trigger of the PPQ, slightly lighter pull, crisper break and reset. In regards to polymer striker fired pistols, the VP9 and PPQ stand head and shoulders above anything else on the market.

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac275/tyhockstaff/IMG_2360_zps184d0784.jpg

Nightstalker865

07-22-15, 21:09

Both great guns, but I personally would take the VP9 every time.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/22/a28078d7a718b8f1816f63beb78a8d8a.jpg

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MountainRaven

07-22-15, 21:12

VP9.

I believe there are more holsters for it. And I like it better, anyway.

HKGuns

07-22-15, 21:13

The correct answer is BOTH. Pick the one that points well for you and feels better in your hand.

I slightly prefer the VP9 for the following reasons. But the PPQ is a great pistol regardless.

- Metal vs. Plastic sights
- Metal vs. Plastic guide rod
- Better sights on VP9 regardless of material
- Mag release on my V1 PPQ is a bit thin and can be missed under stress (I won't own the button version)
- Triggers are a wash depending on your personal preferences

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v26/p1009495854-5.jpg

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p197116466-5.jpg

MonsterMan1036

07-22-15, 21:13

I'd would go with the ppq navy but I'm biased!http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/22/eac926462baee8479ac9690dffe686bc.jpg

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MonsterMan1036

07-22-15, 21:15

With the octane for good measure. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/22/20bb980efe5ff35518fe0b8df1a31fa4.jpg

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Toecheese

07-22-15, 21:20

Nice PPQ!!! Any issues shooting suppressed? There has been some recent problems reported around the forums last few years, and some have changed out recoil springs.

Sikiguya

07-22-15, 21:28

I have both...but I have 1 VP9 vs 4 PPQs...that PPQ trigger makes me smile every time I pull it!

MonsterMan1036

07-22-15, 21:37

As a matter of fact, yes! It is on the way back from Walther and will be here on Friday. I have only had the gun for 2 months and had the can issue on the first outing. Basically the gun fails to load a round into full battery every few rounds. I did read about the recoil spring fix and called Walther to get one. They told me they now had factory fix and to send it in, I believe they replace the three main springs. When I get it back the gun will only of been gone 8 days.

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scooter22

07-22-15, 21:39

I have both...but I have 1 VP9 vs 4 PPQs...that PPQ trigger makes me smile every time I pull it!

I have a PPQ M1 and love it. However, I'm thinking about picking up a VP9.

Why do you prefer the PPQ? Is it mostly because of the trigger?

Sikiguya

07-22-15, 21:43

The trigger is just fantastic. The VP9 also have a great trigger. But the ppqis trigger is smooth and has sich a short reset. Another plus is the accuracy. I get smaller groups with the PPQ. The recoil impulse is more pronounced than the VP9. I prefer the 5" version of the PPQ.

Hop

07-22-15, 23:24

Wow, a lot of us here have both. My PPQ is a 40, VP9 is well... a 9. I feel ther trigger is too light for carry on the PPQ. I also broke the front rail stop off mine when using a Streamlight. The Streamlight now lives on the VP9.

Waylander

07-23-15, 00:17

IMO the VP9 slightly edges out the PPQ in most every category except arguably the trigger. I prefer the VP9 trigger. The factory PPQ sights are awful but easily changed. The PPQ M1 and M2 mags aren't compatible.

The VP9 already beats the PPQ in factory part availability and aftermarket support after being on the market just barely over a year.

The Dumb Gun Collector

07-23-15, 00:25

The VP9 does seem, between the two, the only one likely to break out of niche status (although neither is likely). Both are excellent. Hopefully HK (presuming they stay in business) will bring out a mid-sized (G19) Vp9 soon.

SpecWired

07-23-15, 03:21

I don't think you can go wrong with either in the sense both are a quality product, but the PPQ will probably never have the market share, support or acceptance the VP9 had out the gate.

I do like both though.

Marty w

07-23-15, 07:30

I vote VP9. Both are incredible pistols. Only lean towards the VP9 since I'm already an HK guy and hope a VP9 compact comes out at some point that will share the mags.

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DreadPirateMoyer

07-23-15, 08:00

Toecheese

07-23-15, 08:49

Short answer: VP9.

Long answer: both pistols are a wash on a performance basis. Great, reliable guns with good ergonomics and good triggers. The VP9, however, has more aftermarket support, a more robust American presence, and a more established American service chain behind it than the PPQ. The PPQ will always be a niche pistol. The VP9 may eventually be the de facto "just buy a ______" pistol that Glock currently is. Heck, we're almost there already in the civilian market.

So yeah, buy the VP9. The meta stuff is much better for the HK.

You do know that Smith & Wesson was handling all distribution and support up until 2013 for Walther, and still produces the PPK and Walther still produces the M&P 22 for S&W. Doesn't get anymore "American presence" than that. H&K has a funky rail set up on most of their pistols that nothing interfaces with (VP9 exception), and good luck finding magazines for a decent price. We are nowhere near having the VP9 supplant Glock in regards to the "de facto" pistol in the civilian market......just look at the sales numbers and it's not even close.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 08:49

....Double Tap

montrala

07-23-15, 09:35

H&K has a funky rail set up on most of their pistols that nothing interfaces with (VP9 exception),

And US P2000, and P2000SK, and P30, and P30L, and P30SK, and HK45, and HK45C, and VP40... list of "exeptions" seem to be little longer than you think.

BTT Here we have lot of experience with Walther (almost 100,000 P99 in use by Police and PPQ is face lifted P99). When new they are great, but durability problems (mostly with barrel life) hit much earlier than with HKs. Also constant loosing of polymer sights are quite annoying (rear sights were getting knocked out when open carried by uniformed officers). Barrel problems in long run were solved by switching to one piece, cold hammer forged barrels made by FB Radom (that Walther started to use also in "German" P99 at some point), but PPQ does not use those barrels. Of course not like those will come apart instantly. My friend needed over 50,000 rounds to remove rifling completely from his P99 barrel. Also those barrels that suffered recoil lugs separation had at least few thousands rounds in them. Sights problems where solved by going with steel sights.

Of course in US PPQ is cheaper than VP9 and has cheaper mags. Here it is more expensive than VP9 (SFP9 actually) or SIG P320 and until quite recently it was even more expensive than HK P30.

My advice is:

If you care for Walther - buy Walther PPQ.
If you care for HK - buy HK VP9.
If you do not care for make - buy HK VP9.

Hey... even Bond dumped Walther for HK ;)

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 10:26

Hey... even Bond dumped Walther for HK ;)

Supposedly it's a gun he picks up during a fight and not the gun he carries throughout the film.

Waylander

07-23-15, 10:33

I love how the "good luck finding VP9 mags at a decent price!" myth keeps getting perpetuated.

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 11:14

I love how the "good luck finding VP9 mags at a decent price!" myth keeps getting perpetuated.

Best price I have personally seen is $37 from preppergunshop.com. DO you have some better deals running out there? Because I would love to stock up on VP9 magazines.

TMS951

07-23-15, 11:26

I own a PPQ and over the weekend dry fired a friends VP9.

From this limited experience I preferred the PPQ. I like the PPQ mag release as I'm a Glock guy, so the muscle memory is there for me.

If I had it to do over again I wouldn't spend the extra money on the HK, doesn't seem worth it. If they were equal price I'd decide based on mag release preference.

Hmac

07-23-15, 11:34

Short answer: VP9.

Long answer: both pistols are a wash on a performance basis. Great, reliable guns with good ergonomics and good triggers. The VP9, however, has more aftermarket support, a more robust American presence, and a more established American service chain behind it than the PPQ. The PPQ will always be a niche pistol. The VP9 may eventually be the de facto "just buy a ______" pistol that Glock currently is. Heck, we're almost there already in the civilian market.

So yeah, buy the VP9. The meta stuff is much better for the HK.

I'm not sure that the aftermarket support is superior on the VP9, but if not, it's likely to become so over time. As to "American presence", Walther has as much of that as HK (Walther Arms, based in Ft. Smith).

Owning all three, there is no question in my mind that both the PPQ and the VP9 are vastly superior pistols in virtually every regard, but neither will outsell a commodity pistol with the low-bid mentality of Glock, at least not for the forseeable future.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 11:43

I love how the "good luck finding VP9 mags at a decent price!" myth keeps getting perpetuated.

Care to share where you are finding all these awesome deals on H&K mags? You can't possibly argue that across the board, H&K mags (not just for the VP9) are more expensive than practically everything on the market.

Couple comparisons:

Midway has VP9 10 round mags for $57.99 (15 rounders sold out).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2391154437/hk-magazine-hk-p30-vp9-9mm-luger-steel-blue

Midway has 17 round PPQ mags for $40.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2082583470/walther-magazine-ppq-m2-9mm-luger-anti-friction-coating?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Top Gun (sold out) VP9
http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

No worries, you can always just order 10 rounders direct from H&K for $70
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-VP9-P30-P30L-9mm-10-Round-Magazine-50p1273.htm

Waylander

07-23-15, 11:53

Care to share where you are finding all these awesome deals on H&K mags? You can't possibly argue that across the board, H&K mags (not just for the VP9) are more expensive than practically everything on the market.

Couple comparisons:

Midway has VP9 10 round mags for $57.99 (15 rounders sold out).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2391154437/hk-magazine-hk-p30-vp9-9mm-luger-steel-blue

Midway has 17 round PPQ mags for $40.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2082583470/walther-magazine-ppq-m2-9mm-luger-anti-friction-coating?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Midway is hardly ever the cheapest nor plentiful.
10 round mags are more expensive than 15 round. The 15s are $39 at Midway. $40.99 > $39 simple math.
So you see why they are sold out. Low price/high popularity.

PPQ mags are less popular than VP9 so there you go. :)

I'm not doing your homework for you. VP9/P30 15 round mags can be had NOW for as low as $40.

Hmac

07-23-15, 11:56

Care to share where you are finding all these awesome deals on H&K mags? You can't possibly argue that across the board, H&K mags (not just for the VP9) are more expensive than practically everything on the market.

Couple comparisons:

Midway has VP9 10 round mags for $57.99 (15 rounders sold out).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2391154437/hk-magazine-hk-p30-vp9-9mm-luger-steel-blue

Midway has 17 round PPQ mags for $40.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2082583470/walther-magazine-ppq-m2-9mm-luger-anti-friction-coating?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Top Gun (sold out) VP9
http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

Not compelling. G&R Tactical has 15 round mags in stock for $40.99 http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=234316S and Top Gun Supply has them for $42.95 http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 11:57

Midway is hardly ever the cheapest nor plentiful.
10 round mags are more expensive than 15 round.
So you see why Midway is sold out.

PPQ mags are less popular than VP9 so there you go. :)

I'm not doing your homework for you. VP9/P30 15 round mags can be had for $40.

No one was asking you to "do homework" for us, but I was hoping you'd come through with your source when you claimed "I love how the "good luck finding VP9 mags at a decent price!" myth keeps getting perpetuated." so I could stock up on some. That's all.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 11:59

Midway is hardly ever the cheapest nor plentiful.
10 round mags are more expensive than 15 round.
So you see why Midway is sold out.

PPQ mags are less popular than VP9 so there you go. :)

I'm not doing your homework for you. VP9/P30 15 round mags can be had NOW for as low as $40.

I get 10-15% coupons from midway all the time, and think their prices are actually decent on a lot of gear. Thank you for providing zero evidence to support your assertion.......looks like my homework is complete!

Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:01

Not compelling. G&R Tactical has 15 round mags in stock for $40.99 http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=234316S and Top Gun Supply has them for $42.95 http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

thank you for providing a link to sold out magazines (top gun).........did you actually look at your link or just post it up on good faith?

Sikiguya

07-23-15, 12:04

H&K ships their parts amd magazines from Germany in batches. So supply and demand is in play. Prices went up when people bought pistols and went looking for mags. Wait a few weeks amd the deals will be around again.

MonsterMan1036

07-23-15, 12:06

I just got ppq m2 17rd from cheaper than dirt for $31.13.

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Waylander

07-23-15, 12:08

No one was asking you to "do homework" for us, but I was hoping you'd come through with your source when you claimed "I love how the "good luck finding VP9 mags at a decent price!" myth keeps getting perpetuated." so I could stock up on some. That's all.

thank you for providing a link to sold out magazines (top gun).........did you actually look at your link or just post it up on good faith?

The $40 price I quoted is from G&R Tactical as HMac mentioned. Sure they are a little more at other retailers but you just got a source so what are you complaining about??
That you can't order from multiple retailers at once?

Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:09

So much for "more established American service".....

H&K ships their parts amd magazines from Germany in batches. So supply and demand is in play. Prices went up when people bought pistols and went looking for mags. Wait a few weeks amd the deals will be around again.

Waylander

07-23-15, 12:21

So much for "more established American service".....

It just shows that perhaps or most likely the VP9 is more popular. You clearly have a bias against HK as shown in your infantile "this versus that" mentality.
The PPQ is by no means a light weight. People have simply pointed out the mostly unbiased pros and cons of each pistol.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:22

It just shows that perhaps or most likely the VP9 is more popular. You clearly have a bias against HK as shown in your infantile "this versus that" mentality.
The PPQ is by no means a light weight. People have simply pointed out the mostly unbiased pros and cons of each pistol.

You do realize I own both pistols?

Waylander

07-23-15, 12:30

You do realize I own both pistols?

I couldn't care less. Owning something does not mean you cannot be biased toward another product.
You must be butthurt that you can't find VP9 mags for a decent price because you failed to look or didn't care to.

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 12:39

I couldn't care less. Owning something does not mean you cannot be biased toward another product.
You must be butthurt that you can't find VP9 mags for a decent price because you failed to look or didn't care to.

And YOU came in laughing at others because you made it sound like you had a good source for inexpensive VP9 mags and failed to deliver such information, but other members did it for you. No big deal Bro.

Hmac

07-23-15, 12:40

thank you for providing a link to sold out magazines (top gun).........did you actually look at your link or just post it up on good faith?

I provided you with a link to in-stock magazines.

Hmac

07-23-15, 12:42

You do realize I own both pistols?
I own both too but my opinion varies from yours. They're both excellent pistols, but the VP9 is superior for it's trigger.

IMHO.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:44

I provided you with a link to in-stock magazines.

Your second link to Top Gun shows not in stock.......

Not compelling. G&R Tactical has 15 round mags in stock for $40.99 http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=234316S and Top Gun Supply has them for $42.95 http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

Hmac

07-23-15, 12:44

So much for "more established American service".....

"American Service" from Walther Arms is hardly stellar, by reputation.

Hmac

07-23-15, 12:46

Your second link to Top Gun shows not in stock.......

I provided you with a link to in-stock $40 magazines.

Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:50

I provided you with a link to in-stock $40 magazines.

nope.....just stop digging, the ditch is deep enough bro!

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Toecheese

07-23-15, 12:52

"American Service" from Walther Arms is hardly stellar, by reputation.

cool story, but that wasn't what was in question. The assertion was that H&K was far superior.......and rivaling Glock.

Sasahara

07-23-15, 12:53

Let us all just calm down a little and settle back down to the topic at hand. There are pros and cons to both such and some subjective metrics as well.

Personally I went with the VP9 as I have *ahem* "a few," P30 magazines lying around as I currently own a P30v3. As a left handed shooter I enjoy the paddle magazine release which I can easily actuate with either my thumb or trigger finger. With that being said, the PPQ does have a reversible button style release. Some have issues with the paddle, but I prefer it. I will have to give the edge on the trigger to the PPQ, but the VP-9 is no slouch in this department. In terms of aftermarket support from what I have seen there are a bit more accessories available for the VP-9 but that might be because I am specifically looking for those accessories. Either way, bottom line, go out and fingerbang both and find one that you like. Most of the issues you will have with either can be remedied with aftermarket parts (sights primarily. My P30/VP9 will be getting HD sights ASAP). No clear cut winner on this one !

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 12:54

Best price I have seen online on VP9 Mags, still in stock at time of post;

https://www.preppergunshop.com/index.php/mag-hk-vp9-p30-9mm-15rd.html

Toecheese

07-23-15, 13:04

Best price I have seen online on VP9 Mags, still in stock at time of post;

https://www.preppergunshop.com/index.php/mag-hk-vp9-p30-9mm-15rd.html

Awesome, that is a great price. I love how they state "Very difficult to find mag!" at the top of their web page........so much for the "myth keeps getting perpetuated" nonsense.

Waylander

07-23-15, 13:08

Awesome, that is a great price. I love how they state "Very difficult to find mag!" at the top of their web page........so much for the "myth keeps getting perpetuated" nonsense.

So let me get this straight. You actually believe Prepper Gun Shop (LOL) statement that it's a "Very difficult to find mag!" and call my statement nonsense?

Here's you a couple more so you can place your foot back in your mouth now. :rolleyes:

http://www.deguns.net/HK-P30-VP9-9MM-15RD-MAGAZINE-234316S-p/234316s.htm

http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/product_detail.php?Category=26&Page_Number=1&Index_Seq=643&Home_Page=

WickedWillis

07-23-15, 13:24

We have derailed this thread a bit though, and I apologize for my contribution to that.

OP, both of the guns you mentioned are absolutely fantastic. I rented both before I made my decision and I settled on the VP9. The biggest reason I chose the VP9 was because I shot it better than the PPQ. More accurate, more consistent. Even though the PPQ did seem to melt into my hand a little better. Triggers on both are fantastic. I really feel like you can't lose on either one. YMMV

PatrioticDisorder

07-23-15, 14:18

Care to share where you are finding all these awesome deals on H&K mags? You can't possibly argue that across the board, H&K mags (not just for the VP9) are more expensive than practically everything on the market.

Couple comparisons:

Midway has VP9 10 round mags for $57.99 (15 rounders sold out).
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2391154437/hk-magazine-hk-p30-vp9-9mm-luger-steel-blue

Midway has 17 round PPQ mags for $40.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2082583470/walther-magazine-ppq-m2-9mm-luger-anti-friction-coating?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Top Gun (sold out) VP9
http://www.topgunsupply.com/h-k-p30-9mm-15rd-magazine.html

No worries, you can always just order 10 rounders direct from H&K for $70
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-VP9-P30-P30L-9mm-10-Round-Magazine-50p1273.htm

I have 20, 18 I bought after I purchased the gun, all are 15 round magazines and I paid no more than $40 per mag. The gun is in demand and mags have been going quick, but if you're patient you'll find them. I'll be buying more but I'm in no hurry, mag production will catch back up. Pre VP9 the mags were as low as $33 a magazine.

Hmac

07-23-15, 18:12

I do recall the point where PPQ mags, even the Desert Eagle variety, were impossible to get, certainly harder than VP9 magazines are currently, and that was at about the same point where the VP9 is now in terms of time-in-market. I don't care much since cost of magazines would be a negligible consideration for me in terms of selecting a handgun, but I do expect that VP9 magazine availability, if it's constrained, will increase and price drop once demand gets closer to supply.

HKGuns

07-23-15, 18:29

Ummmmm They're steel and built like tanks so they're never going to cost as little as gLoCk magazines, so if you're a gLoCkeR you'll need to get over it.

HK VP9 / P30 15 round magazines, all in stock.

CTD $37.40
G&R $40
HK Specialist $42.99
HKParts $59.99

All it takes is a very tiny little bit of looking.

The Dumb Gun Collector

07-23-15, 18:38

Ummmmm They're steel and built like tanks so they're never going to cost as little as gLoCk magazines

Yep. I am more offended by the fact that Glock charges $20-25 for about $.90 cents worth of plastic and sheet metal

GJG

07-23-15, 19:44

Caveats to this comment being a) I have never done well with Glocks and b) have owned an HK45c for a while.

Having shot both pistols side by side, I like the Walther trigger, but overall I like and shoot the VP9 better. I also concede that I will need to switch out the HK sights or have them drilled for night sights.

(with all due respect to all) I buy my mags from Grant. Good guy who treats even the small purchaser right. Worth the extra few bucks in my book.

Jacob1

07-24-15, 10:04

Thanks for all the replys. I will more than likely be carrying whatever I go with as a duty weapon so I need to go spend a little more time with each before I make a final decision.

WickedWillis

07-24-15, 10:25

Thanks for all the replys. I will more than likely be carrying whatever I go with as a duty weapon so I need to go spend a little more time with each before I make a final decision.

You should probably go to a range that rents guns and rent each of them.

DreadPirateMoyer

07-24-15, 11:41

You do know that Smith & Wesson was handling all distribution and support up until 2013 for Walther, and still produces the PPK and Walther still produces the M&P 22 for S&W. Doesn't get anymore "American presence" than that. H&K has a funky rail set up on most of their pistols that nothing interfaces with (VP9 exception), and good luck finding magazines for a decent price. We are nowhere near having the VP9 supplant Glock in regards to the "de facto" pistol in the civilian market......just look at the sales numbers and it's not even close.

You do know that under S&W's stewardship, Walther service was incredibly poor, slow, and treated like a redheaded stepchild within the S&W support chain? The CS stories from that period are horrid to the point of barely even having an American presence.

And Walther has indeed split out since, but it's still not HK on average. HK's service pays shipping both ways, turns around usually within a week, and is overall the best I and many others have experienced in the last few years. Walther still hasn't hit that mark consistently.

I stand by my statement. If you want a more robust American presence, HK is the way to go. HKUSA is the bomb. Walther's American chain isn't, whether under S&W or itself.

You obviously have a thing for Walther over HK, regardless of ownership, so I don't expect you to agree. That's fine.

BatteryOperated

07-24-15, 12:06

I am on my second PPQ. The first one was bought when the VP9 was still in the planning stages. The PPQ sights are easily changed and not as hard to find as some will lead you to believe. I am currently running a Dawson Precision front and a 10-8 rear. I have also run the PPQ with the Ameriglo Pro Glo front and a Dawson Precision rear. The PPQ is a great shooter, however for some reason it seems that Walther wants to keep the PPQ a mystery and remain in the dark. Moreover, aftermarket support and spare parts are hard too come buy. The only place that comes to mind is Earls Repair, and the prices are inflated. It is a nice accurate shooter however.

The VP9 already has more aftermarket support in the short time it has been available.

Gary1911A1

07-24-15, 13:08

I have shot both and overall like the PPQ trigger better, but like the grip of the VP9 better. Either would be a good choice.

Fouled

07-24-15, 14:00

I have both and I still can not pick one. The trigger on the PPQ is better but my trigger control is better with the VP9 (drop less shots). I just haven't shot the PPQ as much. Here I am dropping a shot with the PPQ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixlaQazWfbE

buckpatriot

07-26-15, 01:01

I just picked up a VP9 today on sale for $538 (nonLE model). I was pretty happy with the sale price. I plan on trying to get to the range tomorrow to run it a bit. No experience with PPQ so I will have no comparison to offer but I will try to give some insight. I typically run a FS M&P40 with DCAEK as my carry weapon. I shoot that well. My initial impression is fit and finish is very good, as you would expect from HK. Ergonomics seem very good. Seems to sit a little higher in the hand than the M&P, both feel good to me, better than the blockiness of a Glock. If I were comparing them as cars, I would liken the HK to a Porsche and the M&P as a Mustang GT. HK a bit prettier and exotic, but both effective and comfortable in their own right.

I was also looking for something the wife could manipulate and work with, she really liked the HK and felt it was easier for her to rack the slide and use the slide stop vs the M&P. more time on it will tell if this holds true. Overall first impression is very positive and I am looking forward to putting it through its paces, finding out how smooth the stock trigger functions and how accurate it is.

drsal

07-26-15, 10:30

Get whichever one you can get the most mags for :-)
VP 9, just personal bias.

Mauser KAR98K

07-26-15, 10:54

Thanks for all the replys. I will more than likely be carrying whatever I go with as a duty weapon so I need to go spend a little more time with each before I make a final decision.

If you are going for a duty weapon, I'd get the HK VP9LE package. it comes with three mags and a night sights. Safariland also makes a level III holster for it that can support a light.

Toecheese

07-26-15, 15:21

If you are going for a duty weapon, I'd get the HK VP9LE package. it comes with three mags and a night sights. Safariland also makes a level III holster for it that can support a light.

There are several custom kydex holster options that can support numerous light configurations. LE HK pricing is GTG, but my LGS is asking $689 for the new VP40 with military discount......I laughed and walked away.

Mauser KAR98K

07-26-15, 19:39

There are several custom kydex holster options that can support numerous light configurations. LE HK pricing is GTG, but my LGS is asking $689 for the new VP40 with military discount......I laughed and walked away.

If you are LE and this is for duty, you need a bare minimum of a level 2. Kydex is great for conceal carry or casual open carry in "nice" places, but for duty use as an LE, you want something robust with locking system.

Toecheese

07-26-15, 20:38

If you are LE and this is for duty, you need a bare minimum of a level 2. Kydex is great for conceal carry or casual open carry in "nice" places, but for duty use as an LE, you want something robust with locking system.

http://www.bravoconcealment.com/collections/level-ii-holster

I have discount code (PM if interested).

Hop

07-27-15, 19:28

It might be too late to help the OP but maybe the next guy will find this info helpful.

I've run the PPQ in a couple classes and it did great. It didn't care much for the big hollow point Corbon ammo. Everything else shot flawlessly.
I have not run the VP9 in any classes yet but it has been flawless.

Walther VS HK:
- Mags for the Walther are easier to find and cheaper than HK. That includes finding them at a LGS not just via the internet. My red follower P99 mags work great in my PPQ M1 (mine's a .40 cal).
- Warranty service from Walther was exceptional. Mailed gun out on their dime, got gun back in a week. I haven't used the HK warranty.
- The PPQ fits ealier Walther designed holsters like the excellant Safariland ALS. No biggie really since I have custom Kydex for both.
- PPQ trigger is crisper then my HK (almost too light for carry IMO).
- The PPQ front rail stop is very thin. Mine broke off and threw the light downrange during the 1st magazine. Walther advised against attaching a large heavy light like a Streamlight but SWAPPED OUT the entire gun. I have 3 Streamlights so the VP9 now wears the light & has a much stronger front stop.
- The plastic PPQ sights are frail but Dawson metal night sights are great. The HK is an LE version and already has nice night sights.
- The PPQ trigger safety "blade" is a little sharp and digs into my girly trigger finger. The snappier .40 cal probably doesn't help. Maybe some sandpaper would help. HK trigger has a flatter face and is more comfortable IMO.
- fit and finish = tie.
- ergos = virtually a tie
- accuracy = PPQ edges out the VP9 but just barely

And after all this which one do I carry the most??? => My Steyr M9-A1. :laugh:

Toecheese

07-27-15, 19:58

edgy12

07-27-15, 21:10

And after all this which one do I carry the most??? => My Steyr M9-A1. :laugh:

May I ask why? Just to throw the M9 on to the discussion.

I have no time on the PPQ, but really enjoy my P99 and also love my M9. But I carry a G19;)

I held a VP9 today for the first time and found it very similar to the P99 in the hand, but without the weirdness of the AS trigger.

Nightstalker865

07-27-15, 22:30

May I ask why? Just to throw the M9 on to the discussion.

I have no time on the PPQ, but really enjoy my P99 and also love my M9. But I carry a G19;)

The M9 is an entirely different class of gun than the OP is asking about.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SomeGuy

07-29-15, 09:26

.
- The PPQ front rail stop is very thin. Mine broke off and threw the light downrange during the 1st magazine. Walther advised against attaching a large heavy light like a Streamlight but SWAPPED OUT the entire gun. I have 3 Streamlights so the VP9 now wears the light & has a much stronger front stop.

It may or may not be something you're willing to pursue but it's extremely simple to modify a TLR rail key such that it indexes in the second rail slot on the PPQ. I've not had any issues with mine since doing so and it has the added benefit of getting rid of that gap between the back of the light and the front of the trigger guard.

There may be the issue of the rail key sheering but personally I'd rather replace a ~$1 rail key than my whole gun.

Toecheese

07-29-15, 10:49

It may or may not be something you're willing to pursue but it's extremely simple to modify a TLR rail key such that it indexes in the second rail slot on the PPQ. I've not had any issues with mine since doing so and it has the added benefit of getting rid of that gap between the back of the light and the front of the trigger guard.

There may be the issue of the rail key sheering but personally I'd rather replace a ~$1 rail key than my whole gun.

I think the point being made is that the PPQ rail section is fragile across the board, regardless of what slot you mount a light. If you look at the lower of the PPQ in detail, you can see how thin the polymer is, and where there could be issues with cracking/binding/breaking.

call_me_ski

07-29-15, 22:41

The M9 is an entirely different class of gun than the OP is asking about.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They were discussing the steyr m9a1, which is a similar polymer striker fired gun.

Nightstalker865

07-29-15, 22:51

They were discussing the steyr m9a1, which is a similar polymer striker fired gun.

That makes more sense. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tokuboi69

07-30-15, 18:43

Neither. Get a good commander length 1911 [emoji1]

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Hop

07-30-15, 20:13

I've had the Steyr the longest. I still have a 1st gen M40 too. I guess I'm just a fanboi. That big front sight is very easy for me to find during action steel shoots.

I used the PPQ during a low light flashlight training class last winter. During some stress drills I let a couple rounds off just a tiny bit too early. My sights were almost on target. That's why I said I think the trigger is a bit too light for defensive carry. If it was my only gun I'm sure I could train around this problem.

chilic82

07-30-15, 20:19

PPQ of those 2. HK feels good in the hand,and that's where it ends for me. VP9 is just off for me, seems cheap, a lot of slop in the slide, slide stops are awkward, mags are expensive, trough digs into trigger finger. Just not for me. YMMV

OhioFinance

07-30-15, 20:47

to recap...the HK felt cheap compared to the PPQ?

chilic82

07-30-15, 21:03

to recap...the HK felt cheap compared to the PPQ?
Yes, and especially compared to my 92a1 that was the same price, but that's another comparison. It just doesn't ooze that HK quality that the others have. Backplate on the slide seems super cheap, slide stops seem thin and glock like,gimmicky cocked indicator is something HK fans trashed the XD for,slide actually rattled on mine. It's an ok gun, but Walther is cheaper,has better trigger (subjective) higher capacity mags from factory, easier to change sights, I like the ribs across the top of the slide,no trough and easier mag release for me. Easy decision.

Toecheese

07-30-15, 21:35

Yes, and especially compared to my 92a1 that was the same price, but that's another comparison. It just doesn't ooze that HK quality that the others have. Backplate on the slide seems super cheap, slide stops seem thin and glock like,gimmicky cocked indicator is something HK fans trashed the XD for,slide actually rattled on mine. It's an ok gun, but Walther is cheaper,has better trigger (subjective) higher capacity mags from factory, easier to change sights, I like the ribs across the top of the slide,no trough and easier mag release for me. Easy decision.

It's a polymer, striker fired pistol priced out roughly half of what other HK guns cost.......of course it feels different than normal HK's. If by different you mean cheap, so be it. But we are comparing apples to oranges here.

chilic82

07-30-15, 21:43

It's a polymer, striker fired pistol priced out roughly half of what other HK guns cost.......of course it feels different than normal HK's. If by different you mean cheap, so be it. But we are comparing apples to oranges here.

I've said forever that other past HK's were way overpriced. I can get P2000's for $550 now. What's that say about the old $8-900 price they used to have? In all honesty, the XDm9 I used to have felt higher quality than the HK. Slide didn't rattle, back slide plate felt solid, it was just as accurate, mags were higher capacity and half the cost. Striker indicator was actually tactile in feel even in the dark, sights and holsters were endless,etc. I'm not saying the HK is a bad gun, I just don't feel that it is the end all be all of polymer pistols, and that the PPQ and several others are better in my opinion.

Toecheese

07-30-15, 21:48

I've said forever that other past HK's were way overpriced. I can get P2000's for $550 now. What's that say about the old $8-900 price they used to have? In all honesty, the XDm9 I used to have felt higher quality than the HK. Slide didn't rattle, back slide plate felt solid, it was just as accurate, mags were higher capacity and half the cost. Striker indicator was actually tactile in feel even in the dark, sights and holsters were endless,etc. I'm not saying the HK is a bad gun, I just don't feel that it is the end all be all of polymer pistols, and that the PPQ and several others are better in my opinion.

I see where you are coming from, and I would contend that the Walther PPQ and HK VP9 are in a class by themselves in regards to striker fire, polymer pistols. For me, accuracy, quality, fit, finish, trigger, ergonomics are head and shoulders above anything being made by Glock, M&P, Springfield etc. The only glaring weakness of the two, is the PPQ's stock sights which are almost as bad as Glock.

Waylander

07-30-15, 22:37

Even on the HK forum I've seen almost everything complained about regarding the "OCD9" but never slide rattle. That's a new one.

HKGuns

07-30-15, 22:47

In all honesty, the XDm9 I used to have felt higher quality than the HK. Slide didn't rattle, back slide plate felt solid, it was just as accurate, mags were higher capacity and half the cost. Striker indicator was actually tactile in feel even in the dark, sights and holsters were endless,etc.

So the XD you "used" to have was higher quality? I'd guess you would be in the minority, if not alone in that opinion. But, you are certainly entitled to hold an opinion.

Not knowing the HK LCI is also tactile, tells me you have little to no experience with HK pistols from which to form that opinion.

chilic82

07-31-15, 05:50

So the XD you "used" to have was higher quality? I'd guess you would be in the minority, if not alone in that opinion. But, you are certainly entitled to hold an opinion.

Not knowing the HK LCI is also tactile, tells me you have little to no experience with HK pistols from which to form that opinion.

Yep, the XD and VP9 I use to own, before I decided I didn't like plastic guns period and moved on. Read a little closer next time before replying, as I wasn't referring to the LCI, but I don't remember the striker indicator protruding from the rear of the slide. I may be alone in my assessment of the VP9 quality, but scrub those 2 letters off the slide and I think we would get a little more objective opinions of the guns. Can anyone tell me where the VP9 I'd so superior to all other polymer handguns in the quality realm? I work in qA for a living, have owned over 30 handguns, and I'm just not seeing this huge leap in quality.

chilic82

07-31-15, 07:07

Even on the HK forum I've seen almost everything complained about regarding the "OCD9" but never slide rattle. That's a new one.

Yea, not sure if it was just mine, but with the slide shut, you could grab the cocking tabs and move the rear of the slide sideways and feel the slack/play in the rear of the slide. It's probably designed that way, but my Beretta 92a1, nor any of my other pistols have this play/slop in the slide fit.

Waylander

07-31-15, 10:34

Yea, not sure if it was just mine, but with the slide shut, you could grab the cocking tabs and move the rear of the slide sideways and feel the slack/play in the rear of the slide. It's probably designed that way, but my Beretta 92a1, nor any of my other pistols have this play/slop in the slide fit.

It was yours and it must have been defective because no one has brought it up anywhere that I know of. Even so did that affect the accuracy or function which is reported to be very good? Or was it just an OCD issue? :)

ETA:
Seriously was it like 1mm of play or 10mm? So much so you were afraid to shoot and have it blow up?

chilic82

07-31-15, 10:46

It was yours and it must have been defective because no one has brought it up anywhere that I know of. Even so did that affect the accuracy or function which is reported to be very good? Or was it just an OCD issue? :)

ETA:
Seriously was it like 1mm of play or 10mm? So much so you were afraid to shoot and have it blow up?

No, it didn't seem to affect anything, and I didn't get out my calipers for measurements. But, it didn't make it feel high quality to me. It's the same as the Glock pig nose dust cover or the mags that hang out of the mag well too far. Neither affect function, they just appear sloppy craftsmanship, that aren't present on most other handguns.

SomeGuy

07-31-15, 14:48

Out of curiosity does the striker indicator on the VP9 serve a function?

I mean it's an SAO gun you can't thumb the striker indicator while holstering (I mean you can but it won't serve any purpose) and you can't decock the gun with a round chambered so if your gun is loaded then its cocked and if you don't know whether your gun is loaded or not then you've got bigger problems (not to mention the LCI which serves the same function)

scooter22

07-31-15, 15:08

SomeGuy

07-31-15, 15:11

Just to be clear, it is not SAO.

Huh... my bad then.

Does the striker indicator protrude such that you can thumb it while holstering?

I've seen a few videos of people dry firing it and it doesn't appear to move rearward prior to the trigger break as a similar device on a glock would.

scooter22

07-31-15, 15:15

Huh... my bad then.

Does the striker indicator protrude such that you can thumb it while holstering?

I've seen a few videos of people dry firing it and it doesn't appear to move rearward prior to the trigger break as a similar device on a glock would.

It is not a tactile indicator.

Hmac

07-31-15, 15:20

SomeGuy

07-31-15, 16:26

It is not a tactile indicator.

Does not protrude. The red is visible if it's cocked.

Sounds like the answer to my initial question was no then. It's too bad. HK usually doesn't festoon their pistols with useless crap.

HKGuns

07-31-15, 22:27

Sounds like the answer to my initial question was no then. It's too bad. HK usually doesn't festoon their pistols with useless crap.

If it doesn't get in the way or cause failures, neither of which is the case, what exactly is the issue?

SomeGuy

08-01-15, 07:46

If it doesn't get in the way or cause failures, neither of which is the case, what exactly is the issue?

No issue. Just wondering why HK put a useless "feature" on their gun.

I'm also a little suspect of your claim that it doesn't cause failures. At least on the face of it it looks like a great ingress point for sand to get into the trigger mechanism. Not trying to suggest its likely (certainly if it were a common issue we'd have heard of it by now) but where the indicator serves no function I'd rather see that ingress point closed up.

Hmac

08-01-15, 08:04

Both my Walther PPS and my HK VP9 have that red "striker cocked" indicator on the end of the slide. I can't think of any way that feature would be useful to me and can't say I have ever used it in the three or four years it's been available to me.

ralph

08-01-15, 09:03

No issue. Just wondering why HK put a useless "feature" on their gun.

I'm also a little suspect of your claim that it doesn't cause failures. At least on the face of it it looks like a great ingress point for sand to get into the trigger mechanism. Not trying to suggest its likely (certainly if it were a common issue we'd have heard of it by now) but where the indicator serves no function I'd rather see that ingress point closed up.

Just a WAG, but the indicator could have been put on to help with importation "points" It's one thing to manufacturer a handgun within the U.S. It's a whole new ball game trying to import one.. In HK's case dealing with a hostile German gov't that doesn't want them exporting anything,(and frankly wishes they were out of business) and then having to deal with a equally hostile U.S. gov't that really doesn't want firearms imported into the country, but are legally unable to do anything about it, except make it a big PITA as possible..

Hmac

08-01-15, 09:15

Just a WAG, but the indicator could have been put on to help with importation "points" It's one thing to manufacturer a handgun within the U.S. It's a whole new ball game trying to import one.. In HK's case dealing with a hostile German gov't that doesn't want them exporting anything,(and frankly wishes they were out of business) and then having to deal with a equally hostile U.S. gov't that really doesn't want firearms imported into the country, but are legally unable to do anything about it, except make it a big PITA as possible..

Loaded chamber indicator is one of the factoring criteria for semiautomatic pistols, but striker indicator isn't.

The Dumb Gun Collector

08-01-15, 09:29

My guess is that it was required by a German Police agencies spec list. H&K and Walther are always battling it out for those contracts and H&K probably wanted to make it similar enough to the PPQ so it couldn't be excluded by some trivial specification.

HKGuns

08-01-15, 09:45

I like the cocking indicator, it certainly isn't something I fret about either way.

I think you're likely closest to the truth Greg.

Waylander

08-01-15, 14:55

If the indicator is not visible, you know the pistol will absolutely not fire without racking the slide. Regardless of the chamber condition. No need to even check the LCI. But I do not depend on its visibility meaning the gun is ready to fire. Just that it *could* fire.

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Helix12

08-01-15, 15:16

New to this forum and a bit late to this thread.

Recently I had been handling and trying to decide which to buy first, the Walther PPQ or the HK VP9. Eventually I will buy both but it's just been the decision of which one first. I rented and shot a PPQ M2 but the shop had sold the VP9 law enforcement model with night sights and three magazines I had been looking at.

Most professional and youtube reviews are like forum postings, they pretty much reflect an individual's likes or dislikes about a gun. Mostly subjective. That can help but the following article give a more technical review of some construction points on each gun and how they differ. I found it to be interesting and when I next handled these two guns in the shops I noted the difference discussed in the article. It did influence me in my "which first" decision. Hope this link works since I haven't posted here before.

http://www.defensereview.com/walther-ppq-m1-classic-versus-heckler-koch-hk-vp9-high-capacity-polymer-frame-striker-fired-combattactical-9mm-pistol-face-off/

I bought the PPQ M1 a couple of weeks ago and have about 400 rounds through it so far. It's giving my FN FNS-9 and Glock 19 a run for their money to be my favorite polymer handgun. I'm selling off a couple of handguns and will have the HK VP9 within a couple of months. Locally I have heard nothing but good about both of them. Although I have no faith that either will ever challenge Glock or Smith & Wesson M&Ps in sales, they will each have a loyal following I'm sure.

I've enjoyed the comments on this thread and look forward to visiting here often.

HKGuns

08-01-15, 15:39

That article is a load of hooey, Walther fluff piece and contains inaccuracies that are very obvious to anyone who has shot and owned both pistols.

They can't tell a steel from a polymer takedown lever.

They make assumptions that the trigger trough is going to affect everyone.

Ignore the shitty, plastic PPQ sights and guide rod.

Talk about how the PPQ feels "more solid," whatever that means, it doesn't.

100% hooey. My lab could have written a a better article.

But glad you like your PPQ regardless, they are nice pistols and I enjoy mine as well.

MadAngler1

08-01-15, 16:53

Ok guys, I can't choose and I can only buy one. Help me decide.

My dad owns a PPQ, and since I now have trigger time behind both and have disassembled both, I think the VP9 is a better made gun. That's not to say the Walther isn't well made, because it is. I just think HK has a slightly better product.

As far as grip and ergonomics is concerned, that is up to the end user (you). Both guns should serve you well, but for me, I will take the HK VP9 for home defense and conceal carry. Try to shoot both and then decide.

Rascally

08-01-15, 19:07

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...

Cincinnatus

08-01-15, 19:54

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...
Have you spent much time with PPQ plastic sights? They suck worse than Glock sights and are only place holders for something better. There are numerous instances of front getting knocked off, and the back will fall off sometimes even at the gun counter without even being fired. They. Are. Shit. However, they are there just for import points; it is not a poor reflection on Walther or Glock either one.
My PPQ sights lasted a week. No serious user should leave these in place.
As for Magpul, at least the post and peepholes are metal, and arenot designed just as place holders.

Toecheese

08-01-15, 20:02

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...

Not even close to being an accurate comparison......and I run red dots.....period!

Have you spent much time with PPQ plastic sights? They suck worse than Glock sights and are only place holders for something better. There are numerous instances of front getting knocked off, and the back will fall off sometimes even at the gun counter without even being fired. They. Are. Shit. However, they are there just for import points; it is not a poor reflection on Walther or Glock either one.
My PPQ sights lasted a week. No serious user should leave these in place.
As for Magpul, at least the post and peepholes are metal, and arenot designed just as place holders.

I stated this earlier.......the rear sights could be tapped out with a tooth pick. Most people end up swapping out for night sights on pistols anyway so it's not a big deal. I went with Dawson Precision because my PPQ M2 5" is a range gun and not my CCW.

BatteryOperated

08-02-15, 07:17

The way the stock rear sight is set up is not sound. If you happen to depress the windage screw post the whole sight will slide. That's why I knew that I had to replace mine.

Helix12

08-02-15, 08:24

Yes, the sights on the PPQ are not great and I will replace them pretty soon. But, anyone who thinks they are worse than Glock sights must never have owned a Glock. I bought my first Glock years ago and currently have three. I always consider the cost of replacement sights as part of the purchase price of any Glock. I even bought a sight pusher just for the Glocks. When I take the sights off a new Glock (which is like immediately when I get it home) I toss them in the trash can, where they belong. PPQ plastic sights are not near that bad and they are adjustable. My PPQ shot to the left about two inches and the adjustable sight made it a very quick fix to move it where it belongs. Try that with the stupid Glock sights.

When I get the VP9 it will be the law enforcement version with night sights and three magazines. I'm looking forward to it. The only HK I have ever bought was a full size HK USP in .45 ACP as a high school graduation present for my son. It was quite pricy but is a great gun. The only downside for me is that it somehow manages to pinch my trigger finger when I shoot it. Doesn't seem to matter how I hold it, so I just wrap a piece of adhesive tape around my finger when shooting it. It's the only gun that has ever done that to me, but I love to shoot it so it's a small price to pay. A large gun, it isn't one I would ever buy for myself but my son really took to it the first time in handled it in a gun shop. That was 17 years ago and it's still his favorite handgun.

The only Walther gun I had ever owned before the PPQ was when I was about 18 years old. I had a summer job and made the money to buy a Walther PPK in .380 caliber. Made in France. It was a really cool gun but I haven't seriously looked at Walthers since then until I recently started debating between the PPQ and the VP9. I thought of Walthers in terms of PPKs and P38s and pretty much dismissed them from consideration. I was wrong. The PPQ is a fine handgun and I'm enjoying it a lot.

Jaysop

08-02-15, 09:03

HKGuns

08-02-15, 09:15

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...

I am not, thanks for your concern. Plastic is only half of the issue with them. You could drive a truck through the gap in the rear sight picture which makes fast target acquisition and sight alignment harder than necessary.

Hmac

08-02-15, 09:32

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...

The stock PPQ sights are fine. On one of my PPQs, I replaced with Dawsons, mainly because of the theoretical risk of damage if you rack the slide one-handed on your holster....an old training saw that likely has zero practicality for most of us civilian shooters outside of a training environment. My other PPQ I left with the stock sights. They work fine.

pinzgauer

08-02-15, 09:51

As a regular shooter of both PPQ m1 and P99as, I'll admit the stock adjustable sights are just tolerable. But its an import thing, and easily remedied if you are concerned about it. Probably ok for most, but multiple good options to "fix" in 5 minutes or less. And still way cheaper.

No data on VP9, you guys can go back to arguing. But for a serious 9mm in the $500 range, very hard to beat the walthers.

titsonritz

08-02-15, 10:15

Ignore the shitty, plastic PPQ sights and guide rod.

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Or "shitty, plastic" magazines...

Have you spent much time with PPQ plastic sights? They suck worse than Glock sights and are only place holders for something better. There are numerous instances of front getting knocked off, and the back will fall off sometimes even at the gun counter without even being fired. They. Are. Shit. However, they are there just for import points; it is not a poor reflection on Walther or Glock either one.My PPQ sights lasted a week. No serious user should leave these in place.

Cincinnatus is spot on. The shitty plastic sights on Glocks, PPQ or what ever are a non-issue, they add zero cost. Honestly, I don't get why people bitch about them. Would it be better to have a set of night sights that add $50-$80 to the cost of the weapon just to be replaced with preferred sights or to compromise with sights you don't really want just because they are night sights?

SpecWired

08-02-15, 11:18

Cincinnatus is spot on. The shitty plastic sights on Glocks, PPQ or what ever are a non-issue, they add zero cost. Honestly, I don't get why people bitch about them. Would it be better to have a set of night sights that add $50-$80 to the cost of the weapon just to be replaced with preferred sights or to compromise with sights you don't really want just because they are night sights?

I disagree. It would be far more preferable for Walther to ship a product that is good to go out the box.

Shipping junk on purpose is not a positive quality. Every VP9 ships with solid, metal, luminescent sights that would easily endure the entire service life of the weapon. Walther has no excuse. Glock doesn't either but Glock ships many guns with night sights from the factory with a marginal impact on the purchase price due to Glocks being very high margin products.

Edit: I still think the PPQ is an overall quality product that is competitive with the VP9.

Hmac

08-02-15, 13:42

I disagree. It would be far more preferable for Walther to ship a product that is good to go out the box.

Import points, according to what I read on the Walther forums. You get more points for a click-adjustable rear target sight. https://www.nraila.org/articles/19990728/federal-handgun-importation-criteria

SpecWired

08-02-15, 17:41

Import points, according to what I read on the Walther forums. You get more points for a click-adjustable rear target sight. https://www.nraila.org/articles/19990728/federal-handgun-importation-criteria

As a consumer, that's not really my concern. It's Walther's concern, especially in a competitive market. Doubly so with a strong German sibling on the market.

titsonritz

08-02-15, 18:21

I disagree. It would be far more preferable for Walther to ship a product that is good to go out the box.

Shipping junk on purpose is not a positive quality. Every VP9 ships with solid, metal, luminescent sights that would easily endure the entire service life of the weapon. Walther has no excuse. Glock doesn't either but Glock ships many guns with night sights from the factory with a marginal impact on the purchase price due to Glocks being very high margin products.

Edit: I still think the PPQ is an overall quality product that is competitive with the VP9.

I hear where your coming from, I just know I am going change out the sight to my preferred type and would rather replace a cheap set I don't care about. Your right though, the way Glock does it is better than Walther where the consumer, at least, has the option of a descent sight to start with or a cheap place holder.

Hmac

08-02-15, 19:24

As a consumer, that's not really my concern. It's Walther's concern, especially in a competitive market. Doubly so with a strong German sibling on the market.

Yeah, I don't really understand the politics or the marketing, but I do know that Walter in particular has shown a rather remarkable lack of understanding of the American market.

Waylander

08-02-15, 21:05

Yeah, I don't really understand the politics or the marketing, but I do know that Walter in particular has shown a rather remarkable lack of understanding of the American market.

I thought the US demand for the PPQ M1 was low and people were complaining about the paddle release.
Yet HK has always been popular with the paddle release. Sure, there are people that absolutely hate it but that's another matter.

So Walther tried to cater to the paddle haters with the PPQ M2. It seemed like they were "damned if the do/damned if they don't."

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montrala

08-03-15, 04:10

I wonder...how many people who go on about the "shitty, plastic PPQ sights" are running "shitty, plastic..sights" on their AR? You know, the ones made by Magpul..?

Maybe because "shitty, plastic Walther pistol sights" are well known do disappear from the slide, usually in most unfortunate moments, while "shitty, plastic Magpul AR sights" usually stay put, where you put them.

Hmac

08-03-15, 07:21

So Walther tried to cater to the paddle haters with the PPQ M2. It seemed like they were "damned if the do/damned if they don't."

The PPQ M1 and M2 use different magazines (not interchangeable), which were in short supply at that time. Then they announced they weren't going to sell the M1 in the U.S. Then they said they were. That was stupid marketing, and is just one example.

ralph

08-03-15, 09:34

The PPQ M1 and M2 use different magazines (not interchangeable), which were in short supply at that time. Then they announced they weren't going to sell the M1 in the U.S. Then they said they were. That was stupid marketing, and is just one example.

I remember that... That caused a huge uproar..At the time I had a M1 PPQ, and this was one of the reasons I sold it,(that and I figured the VP9 was a better pistol, that would be supported well into the foreseeable future)) as I figured at the time that at some point, Walther would stop importation of the M1 altogether, and so one would be left with a pistol that would be very difficult to find mags for. Making two pistols that are basically identical, except for the mags, and mag release's was probably one of the dumbest things Walther could have done. This decision alone condemned the PPQ to niche status. In all honesty, I don't miss mine..

pinzgauer

08-03-15, 15:56

as I figured at the time that at some point, Walther would stop importation of the M1 altogether, and so one would be left with a pistol that would be very difficult to find mags for.

The crazy thing is that PPQ M1 mags are quite easy to find and reasonable since they are compatible with the P99, SW99, Baby eagle, etc. I'm pretty sure just the P99 and SW99 alone have larger installed bases than the HK does.

The most I ever paid was $35 during "the madness", cheapest was $25'ish, and currently $30 from several places for Walther marked mags.

I do agree the m2 stuff was detrimental, but between the 1911 fuddies and the "needs to be like a glock" departmental mindset the M2 was probably a requirement. They could have mitigated by not flip-flopping on whether the M1 would continue to be imported.

ralph

08-03-15, 16:35

The crazy thing is that PPQ M1 mags are quite easy to find and reasonable since they are compatible with the P99, SW99, Baby eagle, etc. I'm pretty sure just the P99 and SW99 alone have larger installed bases than the HK does.

The most I ever paid was $35 during "the madness", cheapest was $25'ish, and currently $30 from several places for Walther marked mags.

I do agree the m2 stuff was detrimental, but between the 1911 fuddies and the "needs to be like a glock" departmental mindset the M2 was probably a requirement. They could have mitigated by not flip-flopping on whether the M1 would continue to be imported.

Or better yet make the mags compatible...that alone was a stupid, stupid idea

Waylander

08-04-15, 03:39

If PPQ M1 mags are anything like my HK mags, it would be next to impossible to make a thumb release compatible with them.

HK mags have a single notch on the middle/front but my other mags from thumb release pistols have a notch on each corner to support reversal of the thumb release.

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Toecheese

08-04-15, 17:08

Hmac

08-04-15, 17:53

If it was cost effective, Walther would have made mags compatible.......it wasn't, so they didn't. This argument centered around magazine compatibility is hardly enough reason to not purchase a firearm IMO. Aside from the standard 2-3 you get with the gun, is hoarding 10 magazines really a necessity?

I have 14 magazines for that gun. Three gun, action pistol etc with little time in between sets to load makes several preloaded magazines a read convenience. When I bought a second one, they had announced that the M1 was no longer likely to be sold in the US. That meant that when I wanted a second PPQ, I was ****ed because I'd have to buy an M2 and start over with magazines. Bullshit. Stupid marketing.

Toecheese

08-04-15, 18:17

I have 14 magazines for that gun. Three gun, action pistol etc with little time in between sets to load makes several preloaded magazines a read convenience. When I bought a second one, they had announced that the M1 was no longer likely to be sold in the US. That meant that when I wanted a second PPQ, I was ****ed because I'd have to buy an M2 and start over with magazines. Bullshit. Stupid marketing.

I still don't see how this is an issue......no one is forcing you to purchase an M2 version, especially since you already know beforehand that mags aren't compatible.

MistWolf

08-04-15, 22:41

I like the longer mag release lever of the PPQ. much easier for me to use than the shorter lever of the VP-9. Although a long time 1911 shooter, I find the mag release lever to be more intuitive than even the mag button. I think it's because I'm using the trigger finger, same as when releasing the mag of an AR.

The PPQ is one of the easiest pistols for me to shoot accurately. I've never considered myself a great pistol shot but the PPQ make me look better. Some don't like a gap between the front rear sight but I do. I can see if I've got the front sight centered. I don't have to guess. The stock sights have served me well over the last two or three years of shooting and daily CCW but they are a little worse for wear and my aging eyes could use something more high viz.

The PPQ fits my hand, balances well, has a quick slide cycle, great trigger and has been reliable with minimal maintenance.

The VP-9 has the best out of the box Glock trigger I've tried- which means I like the PPQ trigger better. The PPQ is a trimmer handgun and yes, it feels more solid to me.

After shooting and handling a 1911 for so long, the longer slide release of the PPQ sometimes gives me fits. The slide grooves are generously grooved and give good grip but they are also sharp. Most of my tee shirts have pin holes where the cloth rubs against the grooves.

Overall, the PPQ is one of my favorite handguns. I'd like to try a VP-9 but I wouldn't give up my PPQ to have one

MountainRaven

08-04-15, 22:56

Cincinnatus

08-04-15, 23:59

To quote Ken Hackathorn, "For your choice of handgun, have at least five mags, ten is better per gun."

This. People need to understand that mags are expendable/consumable/disposable, and a component of which there is no such thing as too many.

titsonritz

08-05-15, 00:49

I'm not happy unless I have at least a dozen mags for my pistols.

Hmac

08-05-15, 07:53

I still don't see how this is an issue......no one is forcing you to purchase an M2 version, especially since you already know beforehand that mags aren't compatible.

Sure they were. If they had actually discontinued sales of the M1 version (as they had said), then if I wanted another PPQ (which I did), I would have had to buy the M2. This was before the VP9 was released. If I had known about the VP9, I could have skipped the second PPQ. Anyway for months, the magazine availability of M2 was worse than it had been for the M1. And availability of both was far worse than the availability of VP9 mags has ever been.

.

Toecheese

08-05-15, 11:23

I've had my M2 for years now............and have never had issues finding magazines.

This. People need to understand that mags are expendable/consumable/disposable, and a component of which there is no such thing as too many.

What is enough for me, is not enough for another thus your logic is flawed. I only need 3-4 mags.........is that not enough for me because you need 10?

WickedWillis

08-05-15, 11:35

I've had my M2 for years now............and have never had issues finding magazines.

What is enough for me, is not enough for another thus your logic is flawed. I only need 3-4 mags.........is that not enough for me because you need 10?

And that is your thought process and how you operate with your gear. I subscribe to the ten+ magazines per handgun thought process as well, because they do fail, and they do break, and I cycle through them all. That is the one thing that has been difficult with me with the VP9, because to continue my thought process I am looking at basically spending the equivalent of a case of ammo on magazines, minimum. Doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong, it just means we view it in different ways.

Toecheese

08-05-15, 11:47

And that is your thought process and how you operate with your gear. I subscribe to the ten+ magazines per handgun thought process as well, because they do fail, and they do break, and I cycle through them all. That is the one thing that has been difficult with me with the VP9, because to continue my thought process I am looking at basically spending the equivalent of a case of ammo on magazines, minimum. Doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong, it just means we view it in different ways.

I see your point and it's pragmatic, but I'm not an operator, and having 10 mags does nothing for me that 3-4 can do. Nothing against someone who requires several mags, but subscribing to the blanket notion that you can never have enough mags is simply ridiculous.

Waylander

08-05-15, 11:50

Is this turning into a mag count argument or are we going to discuss the pistols?

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Hmac

08-05-15, 12:04

I've had my M2 for years now............and have never had issues finding magazines.

What is enough for me, is not enough for another thus your logic is flawed. I only need 3-4 mags.........is that not enough for me because you need 10?

Yes. PPQ magazines are in adequate supply now. In the first year or two on the market, they were a bitch to find. Then when they came out with the M2 version later, those were a bitch as well. Both were much harder than the VP9 is now. I've never had an issue finding mags for my VP9, although I confess I've paid $52 for a couple of them. Of course, I've paid that much or more for PPQ magazines too.

As to respect for everyone's individual magazine needs, you were the one that apparently perceives that more than 2-3 magazines as unnecessary hoarding.

Aside from the standard 2-3 you get with the gun, is hoarding 10 magazines really a necessity?

Yes, magazine availability and need is on-topic when considering a handgun purchase, and is part of the OP's question. I agree, however, it's not an issue. They are clearly readily available and at reasonable prices for both handguns.

.

Toecheese

08-05-15, 16:29

Yes. PPQ magazines are in adequate supply now. In the first year or two on the market, they were a bitch to find. Then when they came out with the M2 version later, those were a bitch as well. Both were much harder than the VP9 is now. I've never had an issue finding mags for my VP9, although I confess I've paid $52 for a couple of them. Of course, I've paid that much or more for PPQ magazines too.

As to respect for everyone's individual magazine needs, you were the one that apparently perceives that more than 2-3 magazines as unnecessary hoarding.

Yes, magazine availability and need is on-topic when considering a handgun purchase, and is part of the OP's question. I agree, however, it's not an issue. They are clearly readily available and at reasonable prices for both handguns.
.

Fair enough......people who find it necessary to buy 10 or more magazines are hoarders.....and people like me who are perfectly content with 3-4 simply don't have enough magazines.

Is this turning into a mag count argument or are we going to discuss the pistols?

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We are talking about pistols..........magazine availability for the PPQ and VP9, which we have established is a perfectly cogent talking point in reference to this thread. And I don't see anyone arguing, but rather gun enthusiasts speaking openly on a public gun forum.

WickedWillis

08-05-15, 17:22

I see your point and it's pragmatic, but I'm not an operator, and having 10 mags does nothing for me that 3-4 can do. Nothing against someone who requires several mags, but subscribing to the blanket notion that you can never have enough mags is simply ridiculous.

How you "operate with your gear" meaning a checklist and a routine check. NOt claiming to be one of those operator bro guys.

kantstudien

08-05-15, 19:21

No honest man needs more than 4 mags... or more than ten rounds :rolleyes:

teksid

08-05-15, 21:49

I have both and prefer the PPQ. The VP9 is way over rated. There I said it, flame on. Oh and proof I have one.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/05/02381f46acaf7c8c24fa80c05d7dec25.jpg

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The Dumb Gun Collector

08-05-15, 23:04

This thread needs to die. Literally, people are just saying "I think X" is overrated and waiting for a fuss.

titsonritz

08-05-15, 23:49

Fair enough......people who find it necessary to buy 10 or more magazines are hoarders.....and people like me who are perfectly content with 3-4 simply don't have enough magazines.

In addition to having several mags because they are expendable or due to breakage and loss, some of us shoot/train quite a bit and don't feel like unloading our carry ammo every time we shoot/train. Instead we remove our carry mags and have several loaded with the cheaper ammo to blast. Sometimes this shooting/training takes place in crappy weather in muddy areas, mags can get pretty nasty and rather than having to disassemble and clean mags, the cruddy ones get tossed in the kit bag and out comes a fresh set or two. When mags go on sale why not pick up some more? Sure is a hell of lot better than waiting around for panic prices. Hoarders? Hardly, actual users, yes.

No honest man needs more than 4 mags... or more than ten rounds :rolleyes:

Yeah, OK Bill.

Waylander

08-10-15, 11:38

Helix12

08-10-15, 16:49

WOW. I believe I've found my next purchase if I could find an M1 for the price M2's are going for.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ppq_n_0007-tm-tfb.jpeg

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I handled one of these in the M2 version at a gun shop less than an hour ago. Several people standing around the counter had to come over and finger it as well.

Toecheese

08-10-15, 19:32

I handled one of these in the M2 version at a gun shop less than an hour ago. Several people standing around the counter had to come over and finger it as well.

:blink:

MonsterMan1036

08-10-15, 22:46

I handled one of these in the M2 version at a gun shop less than an hour ago. Several people standing around the counter had to come over and finger it as well.

I have one and it's well worth the fingering!

Just got a chance to go the range this past weekend, since I got it back from Walter and now runs flawlessly suppressed.

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Helix12

08-11-15, 08:40

I have one and it's well worth the fingering!

Just got a chance to go the range this past weekend, since I got it back from Walter and now runs flawlessly suppressed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I was in the Marine Corps we would have said "Finger F---", but I'm new to this forum and want to be on my better behavior.

Hmac

08-14-15, 09:55

Defense Review article

http://www.defensereview.com/walther-ppq-m1-classic-versus-heckler-koch-hk-vp9-high-capacity-polymer-frame-striker-fired-combattactical-9mm-pistol-face-off/

And, there you have it. Both Arsenal Democracy principles, Dave Pavlick and James Pechi, prefer the Walther PPQ M1 Classic over the HK VP9 due to the PPQ’s superior trigger design and feel, and what they believe to be superior quality of manufacturing. They also prefer the design of its enlarged/elongated sweep-down ambi (ambidextrous) magazine release levers. Pavlick told Defense Review by phone that he believes the Walther PPQ M1 Classic to be hands-down the superior pistol (to the HK VP9). Pavlick also prefers the Walther PPQ M1 Classic over the Walther PPQ M2 pistol, since he prefers the M1’s sweep-down ambi mag release levers to the M2’s American-style push-button.

RAM Engineer

08-14-15, 11:30

Hmac

08-14-15, 11:33

Didn't realize that click-baity garbage was still being published.

You disagree with their methodology, the authors' credentials, or you just don't like their conclusion?

WickedWillis

08-14-15, 11:48

Didn't realize that click-baity garbage was still being published.

Did you read the article? It was actually very well done and had some great information for anyone who is torn between the two.

Bryan84

08-14-15, 16:17

Find out if your local range will let you test drive both. Can't really go wrong with either choice. I prefer the VP9 but that's me.

RAM Engineer

08-14-15, 17:26

You disagree with their methodology, the authors' credentials, or you just don't like their conclusion?

All the above.

Methodology since they do not mention anything about reliability, accuracy, etc. ie, THINGS THAT CAN BE MEASURED. For instance, they liked how the wall thickness on the grip was greater on the PPQ vs the VP9. However, they never actually measured the grips to see which could achieve a smaller circumference. They never mentioned the greater grip options on the VP9. Never measured reload times. They just said "this is thicker, therefore it must be better and faster to reload".

They liked the solid, machined locking block on the PPQ vs the VP9 merely because one appeared to be stamped and the other was welded. A good quality weld can be stronger than a poor quality solid part. It all comes down to the forces exerted and the engineering behind the choices for fabrication. Which will really last longer? Who knows without long term testing. But don't say "this is better because it's not welded and stamped". A WHOLE lot of AK series rifles proves that is a fallacy.

Authors' credentials? David Crane is well known for his symbiotic relationship with the products he hawks (er...writes about). All the hypertext in the article is a clue. He's not a BTDT. He's not firearms designer. He's not a trainer or a gunsmith. He's just an enthusiast who happens to have a slick website. I once met the small arms editor for Jane's. He knew about as much as the average gunstore commando.

As for the other two guys...never heard of them. But Crane isn't shy about advertising for them right in the article...

Conclusion? Inconclusive....

I find the PPQ to be a very fascinating and appealing gun (especially in the M1 Classic format), but this article doesn't sway me one way or the other. Maybe it's the engineer in me...

Did you read the article? It was actually very well done and had some great information for anyone who is torn between the two.

See above. "great" is as subjective as a lot of points in the article.

Waylander

08-14-15, 21:42

That link is just a load of crap glorified blog post. Anybody using it as objective source to make a buying decision should be careful of what they read on the internet.

The 'experts' he consulted incorrectly stated the VP9 takedown lever is polymer considering they had "conducted some forensic examination on them."

I stopped reading at the point of them sensing a trend of spot welds.

montrala

08-15-15, 06:11

The 'experts' he consulted incorrectly stated the VP9 takedown lever is polymer considering they had "conducted some forensic examination on them."

Yet in their forensic spree, they did not notice polymer sights on Walther, that are well known to came loose and fly of the slide. Maybe their forensic training does not include telling polymer from steel?

Do not get me wrong - PPQ is good pistol. I liked it back in 2008, when it was still in prototype stage as "P99D RAD" and "P99Q RAD". But this blog post is hilarious.

Hmac

08-15-15, 06:55

I'm not defending the blog post, but I thought it was interesting. It doesn't make me like my VP9 any less, and I still prefer it to my PPQs. I didn't find that article hilarious or inconclusive, but I'm not so entrenched in either gun that my opinion of either is swayed by negative comments - I really don't care. I've already drawn my own conclusions based on how both work in my hands for the things that I use such a pistol, and they've been reinforced over thousands of rounds. Posting that link generated an unsurprising reaction here. Sort of like posting Larry Vickers' opinion over on Walther Forums.

.

Waylander

08-15-15, 07:55

The link has already been posted earlier in the thread and dismissed then as well. If you posted a link to a blog concluding between two carbines out of a BCM, Colt, DD or Noveske that one was superior to the other due to purely subjective criteria and how ones construction appears over the other, I would expect the same reaction. If a similar conclusion were to be drawn in favor of the VP9 due to such biased hogwash then I would expect it to be criticized as well.

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Fouled

08-15-15, 13:24

The vp9 is softer shooting. With the vp9 I can put more grip in with my off hand because the grip positions my dominant hands fingers in a way that my off hand palm can lock onto. For my large hands the further out breaking point of the vp9 trigger is a treat. For me the vp9 takes less effort to put up awesome targets/times than any other service 9mm.

The PPQ has an impressive trigger. I can shoot mine well as you can see on page 7 of this thread. The perks of the vp9 are "nice" but not critical, obviously. I shoot Glocks a lot too.

I have seen a lot of speculation on the superior build of either one. No way I'm giving up either one.

parishioner

02-15-19, 23:20

Hmac

02-16-19, 06:24

Was just perusing this thread last night as I’m interested in both the PPQ and VP9 for ergonomical reasons and today I see this cool promotion posted by Walther on social media that piqued my interest and figured others would be interested as well.

https://www.waltherarms.com/shoot-it-love-it-buy-it/

Applies to all PPQ models.

I have both, PPQ Classic and VP9, several thousand rounds through both. Both are excellent. Different from each other, both excellent in their own way. I have found that I marginally prefer the VP9, but at that price point the PPQ is by far the better deal.

teksid

02-16-19, 07:19

Both are good, reliable guns. I would pick the PPQ for trigger and price.

mkmckinley

02-16-19, 10:17

Kept my PPQs, sold the VP9s

heat-ar

02-16-19, 11:12

I don't have any time with the VP9. But I have had my PPQ for 5 years and over 10,000 rounds through it. Very reliable gun just like my glocks, eats any kind ammo also. Put sights on and go shoot it, its a very boring gun to own. My split times are usually quicker with the glock though,the PPQ does not shoot as flat as my glocks do.

ramairthree

02-16-19, 11:49

This thread has been going on long enough we can discuss the different magazine release options of both operating systems/platforms, compare triggers on the Turkish knockmoffs of each platform, and have some shiny new gun catch our eye.

One of the two has a great trigger and the other an even better one. One looks really ugly to me and does not feel good in the hand. I like 1911 style mag releases.

Bodhi

02-16-19, 19:45

I'm almost ready to put my PPQ as my duty over my VP9 (current.)

For a couple of reasons. The VP9 is more picky with ammo. Unless i'm using brass, I can prepare for issues. For the PPQ, it'll shoot any ammo so far.

Mag prices are lower for the PPQ - cross compatibility with TP9 stuff (slides included so I can go optic ready on the cheap with a TP9SFX slide)

Only gripes I have with the PPQ: There is a weird rattle with all the PPQ's i've held and owned. I don't know what it is, it may be the slide fitment to the frame.

The VP9's trigger bar spring (It's like a braided steel cable) seems like a failure point compared to the traditional trigger bar/sear that's in the PPQ.

bad aim

02-17-19, 10:04

Bodhi

02-18-19, 02:32

Bodhi, what's great is that Safariland also makes a Level 3 6360 holster for the PPQ + X300U if you ever need it.

The PPQ has been ym EDC for the past few years and I love it. Only thing I did was to stipple the grip and add Trijicon HD sights. Magnum Research Baby Eagle 15-rd 9mm mags also fit the Q, too, and they're a few bucks cheaper.

Thanks for the heads up. My safariland for my VP9+ x300 fits my PPQ great. Also fit my p10c very well when I had it.

Is it me or are the trijicon HD's on the PPQ sharp around the edges?

prdubi

02-18-19, 03:18

Ppq all the way.
Love mines ...

Trex ragnarok holster for my setup.

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pinzgauer

02-18-19, 07:18

PPQ, eats anything from steel case to +P, really easy to shoot accurately.

Firefly

02-18-19, 18:42

I had a VP9 for a few months years back. It wasn't bad but did nothing Glock didn't do. Sold it and got my money back. FWIW, HK is like Apple in that they retain value. I'm not so anal about polymer pistols anymore. I'd rather spend more time with my Glock or a 9mm 1911.

Now if I were gonna use a pistol as a dedicated suppressor host, then HK as they DO suppress rather well.

Otherwise PPQ is kinda meh. Not bad, just not for me.

bad aim

02-18-19, 20:36

Interesting and good to know that the VP9 holster is compatible with the -Q as well.

And yep, they are a bit sharp. Definitely could be an alternative for a knife if you wind up in a tousle haha.

Bodhi

03-02-19, 19:07

Heavy4Caliber

03-06-19, 10:44

Hmac

03-06-19, 11:53

Haven't shot a PPQ, but I can definitely agree with you on the VP9 and the Glocks. I'll always have a place and a use for Glocks, but the VP9 quickly became my favorite striker-fired pistol, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I actually shoot the PPQ a little better...might be due to the sights. I've never understood the complaints about "muzzle flip". I just don't see it as a component of shooting that gun. I never carry either the PPQ or the VP9. If I carry at all, it's either a Walther PPS M2, or a J-frame in my pocket. That would be rare. I hate that little revolver.

Rogue556

03-06-19, 13:46

I've not had a chance to fire a PPQ, but after holding one it doesn't quite have that "fits like a glove" feel that the VP9 does, at least for me. I'd like to get range time with one to compare, but it's not been a priority. With that said, the two pistols are very comparable and I seriously doubt anyone could go wrong with either.

The VP9 has easily become my favorite pistol. I've dumped a lot of my other pistols for VP9's and I don't regret it. They fit my hands like they are surgically attached, are very reliable, have a great trigger, and are very accurate. On top of that, my wife also shoots them well, and there's something to be said for pistol commonality in the household.

The Internet will tell you the VP9 isn't a duty pistol, won't run dirty, won't run wet, isn't true HK quality, etc..

I've found these statements to be false, and would recommend anyone who believes otherwise to test them for themselves.

I've torture tested four different ones over the years. They've been buried in dirt (even buried the mags separate from the pistols a few times), buried in snow and ice, thrown in mud, submerged in an iced over muddy pond, and run with cheap low pressure bulk pack Federal 115gr ammo. All of them far exceeded my expectations. I could only get the pistols to fail once the slide was completely locked up by mud after being buried 6" deep. Other than that, I've had one failure to fire that a simple tap-rack resolved out of four different pistols and nearly 300 rounds of testing. In normal use over multiple thousands of rounds they've been flawless.

http://i.imgur.com/eZOcvj3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0mDWOqz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/khVNFa0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zUQF9Rf.jpg

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lsllc

03-06-19, 14:03

I’m largely a VP9 shooter. Back when the ”drama” came out I tested my G17 Gen 3 and VP9 by scrapping mud with the back of the side, threw them into a pond, dumped gravel and sand on them. The VP9 ran fine, other than failing to lock back. My G17 wouldn’t get through two consecutive rounds without stoppage. I performed the same test again hoping to video it. The results were reversed.

I think largely the problem with such torture tests is that it is impossible to scientifically perform a control and recreation of ingress of debris is a crapshoot at best.

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RUSKI

03-06-19, 18:13

+1 for the VP9. Best shooting and handling striker fired pistol that I own. Fantastic trigger, accuracy and unmatched grip customization. It is my "go to" when doing any classes, and my winter IDC. No comment on the PPQ, never fired one.

Bodhi

03-06-19, 19:32

So I took both out la few days ago at the range. I'm averaging just a sub 2 second draw from retention and getting A zone hits with both pistols.

However, I noticed more muzzle flip with the PPQ than I did wiht the VP9, making follow up shots just slightly longer.

But, the PPQ still chugs along any kind of ammo I throw at it.

I'll do more testing next time I go. I also reconfirmed my dislike for glock ergonomics when I went (I reconfirm this every year or so when a glock randomly comes into my possession.) But the glock will always have a place somewhere in my house. Somewhere.

I forgot to add that i'm a bit disappointed in my HK mags. One of my mags fails to lock back on last round every single time. HK said unless it's under a year from initial purchase, they will not warranty it. Usually I wouldn't reach out to a company about a mag. But being the mags aren't cheap and HK used to be known to have amazing mags - I figured i'd try.

This isn't the first time i've had issues with the VP9 mags. I've had one that came apart after a reload and the empty fell on concrete. The base plate slid out. I was very careful about re-securing and checking the baseplates between drills too.

So I'm a bit disappointed in mag quality VS the PPQ mags.

Rogue556

03-06-19, 21:41

I think largely the problem with such torture tests is that it is impossible to scientifically perform a control and recreation of ingress of debris is a crapshoot at best.

This is absolutely true, and in no way was my test ment to be scientific. For clarification, I posted my findings for those who may have been on the fence about the VP9 due to previous rumors. It's great to see others are testing their firearms in a similar fashion. The fact of the matter is most people don't put their firearms through such trials, so I think it's important to put first hand info out there to better balance the signal to noise ratio and help others make informed decisions. I'd be surprised if the PPQ, Glock 19/17, etc did any better or worse honestly.

I'm a bit disappointed in mag quality VS the PPQ mags.

That's something I hadn't heard of with the VP9 magazines. All of mine have been great. I feel like there'd be a lot of info out there if the issue was wide spread considering the P30 shares the same magazine, but who knows.

Did these issues start to spring up immediately, or were these magazines well used before the issues started?

Either way, I'd probably reach out to HK through their FB social media page or attempt to contact someone on HKPro about it if you're getting nowhere with the CS email department.

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BoringGuy45

03-06-19, 21:48

Just shot the PPQ for the first time last weekend. I had dry fired it quite a few times but that was the first time shooting actual rounds.

It was just at the local range, putting holes in paper, so no "real world" type of shooting with it. That said, I found it extremely accurate; the trigger was incredible. Definitely tighter groups than with my current EDC Glock 19. However, the muzzle flip was very, very noticeable. Followup shots were significantly slower. I'd have to do some actual training with it to see which one I'm better with.

Next up, the VP9!

Heavy4Caliber

03-07-19, 07:43

I'm a bit disappointed in mag quality VS the PPQ mags.

I have six mags for my VP9. All have functioned flawlessly, but a couple have developed a rattle when fully loaded. It's annoying, but doesn't seem to affect function.

1986s4

03-07-19, 07:52

I have six mags for my VP9. All have functioned flawlessly, but a couple have developed a rattle when fully loaded. It's annoying, but doesn't seem to affect function.

I seem to recall my P-30 mags doing that, which I believe are identical to the VP9 mags. Sometimes if I down loaded by 1 then rapped the back of the mag on the base of my hand, then check for rattle and reloaded 1 more round I could get it to stop rattling. But then again I'm not a ninja Ranger Seal Delta guy so I don't know why I need to be sneaky..

My usual magazine loading technique is to load 8, rap it against my hand/wrist, load 8, etc.

Ken1973

03-07-19, 08:33

Been running a VP9 for years. My full size has been through 10 or so pistol classes, some of them on the ground in the dirt/sand and just general abuse. The thing has been boringly reliable. If you throw empty brass in a mag to induce malfunctions it chambers the empty brass same as the loaded.

I did have a VP9SK mag break. The little tab at the top that keeps the follower from coming up too far snapped off when dropped on concrete. It did have an HK Parts aluminum extension on it, not sure if that made a difference. All of my full size mags have been 100%.

El Pistolero

03-07-19, 18:04

Am I too late to add anything? I made the transition to the PPQ several months ago and I’ve found it to be the best striker-fired 9mm pistol, hands down. With some small changes it’s now my daily carry gun:

https://i.imgur.com/peY998e.jpg

Bodhi

03-07-19, 19:23

This is absolutely true, and in no way was my test ment to be scientific. For clarification, I posted my findings for those who may have been on the fence about the VP9 due to previous rumors. It's great to see others are testing their firearms in a similar fashion. The fact of the matter is most people don't put their firearms through such trials, so I think it's important to put first hand info out there to better balance the signal to noise ratio and help others make informed decisions. I'd be surprised if the PPQ, Glock 19/17, etc did any better or worse honestly.

That's something I hadn't heard of with the VP9 magazines. All of mine have been great. I feel like there'd be a lot of info out there if the issue was wide spread considering the P30 shares the same magazine, but who knows.

Did these issues start to spring up immediately, or were these magazines well used before the issues started?

Either way, I'd probably reach out to HK through their FB social media page or attempt to contact someone on HKPro about it if you're getting nowhere with the CS email department.

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The mag in question is definitely well used. Probably the most used mag i have in any of my guns. But there's no physical differences in the body, follower, or spring of it VS my newest VP9 mag.

Yeah, I might reach out to their social media team

Waylander

03-07-19, 20:56

I have six mags for my VP9. All have functioned flawlessly, but a couple have developed a rattle when fully loaded. It's annoying, but doesn't seem to affect function.
I seem to recall my P-30 mags doing that, which I believe are identical to the VP9 mags. Sometimes if I down loaded by 1 then rapped the back of the mag on the base of my hand, then check for rattle and reloaded 1 more round I could get it to stop rattling. But then again I'm not a ninja Ranger Seal Delta guy so I don't know why I need to be sneaky..

My usual magazine loading technique is to load 8, rap it against my hand/wrist, load 8, etc.That's not just an HK thing. It happens with quite a few manufacturers' mags.

hile

03-08-19, 09:37

I chose PPQ.

Spiff_P239

03-08-19, 15:12

I chose PPQ.
I chose VP9. Great options on both sides.

Boris_the_Blade

03-13-19, 13:04

Have both, enjoy shooting both, but prefer the PPQ. Just feels better for me, and my groups are tighter.

1986s4

03-13-19, 15:44

There are several quality polymer striker fired pistols out there. Each having qualities unique and/or similar to each other. For me, if I were to decide I needed one of them it would be the VP9 since I have a supply of P-30 mags.

Boogieman2

03-13-19, 17:27

Never owned a walther but I have owned a VP9SK and I have to say they are nice. Feels great in the hands only reason I sold it is because I just prefer cz or Glock

Spiff_P239

03-13-19, 17:48

There are several quality polymer striker fired pistols out there. Each having qualities unique and/or similar to each other.

You’re not kidding. With big names like the Glock, SIG P320, CZ P10, S&W M&P, and others, you can definitely find an option that’ll suit your needs, and a lot of them won’t break the bank either.

bobbytucson

03-18-19, 23:30

love my vp9, its ambilever mag release is on point.

Falshooter

03-19-19, 02:14

I've owned both and while the PPQ is a great gun, it just didn't feel as nicely built as the VP9 did.

PPQ - PROS:

Great trigger
Great Ergos
One of the most accurate guns I have ever owned
Super Easy Takedown

Cons:

Not as refined as the VP9. Feels like a cheap copy
Backstraps were a b*tch to change on mine
Mags are expensive and the 17rders rattle
Sights were terrible. Night sights were very dim and the dots weren't easy to pick.
As good as the trigger was, I felt the reset was too short YMMV

VP9 - PROS:

Great trigger- Better than the PPQ IMHO, and probably one of the best triggers on a striker fired gun.
Great ergo, made better by being a more customizable grip
Great sights
Pricing on par with the PPQs and Glocks

Cons:

A little bigger than it should actually be for a firearm holding 15 rds of 9mm
It's an HK, so it hates you.
Being it's an HK, parts are expensive, but not terrible.
Mags are hard to find locally

Either way, you would have a great gun, and something that is better than a Glock 19 out of the box. The PPQ will give you the option of an ambi paddle mag release, or a switchable button release. VP9 is only available with the paddle release. With size, the PPQ is about the size of a G19, where the VP9 is in between a G19 and a G17. Both were easy for me to carry and conceal.

Take them both out for a run if possible and you can make a decision from there.

montrala

03-19-19, 07:21

It's an HK, so it hates you.

I must be very special then, because HK does not hate me :no:

BTT Regular SFP9 over regular PPQ all the time. However if one is into competition/target shooting then PPQ SF Q5 Match with new, flat, adjustable trigger feels really good. Think in terms of very good, "glass-rod" 1911 trigger, but better. I didn't have opportunity to shoot it, so I can not comment on accuracy, but trigger really felt incredible.

Rogue556

03-20-19, 12:49

The PPQ will give you the option of an ambi paddle mag release, or a switchable button release. VP9 is only available with the paddle release.

This is actually incorrect. There is a VP9-B model now that gives you a standard left side push button release that can be swapped to the right side. It has actually been out for a while now. There is also an aftermarket button release in the works by X Tech Tactical I believe that will allow the push button mag release to work from either side without having to swap it around manually.

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montrala

03-21-19, 09:36

There is a VP9-B model now that gives you a standard left side push button release that can be swapped to the right side.

And, unlike PPQ M2 and PPQ Classic, both paddle and button versions of VP9 use same magazines (compatible also with P30 and other HK pistols).

63Qcode

03-21-19, 09:56

Currently have two PPQ M 1 (Classic ) and have played some with the VP9 . For me , the VP 9 paddle mag release missed the boat.... it`s too small and located where I have to shift my grip to work it . The PPQ paddle mag release can be worked without changing my grip as can the slide stop release . Again , for me , I can`t do that with the VP 9 .
The PPQ M 1 is the paddle release and the PPQ M 2 is the button release and the mags are not interchangeable as pointed out earlier , however , the P99 mags fit the M1 version and are a little cheaper and more available ..... have 6 of them.
Again , for me , the VP 9 fits my hand a little better , accuracy is the same ( for me ) , but as others have pointed out , the PPQ does have more muzzle flip ..... but if you put a Sprinco RSA in it , that makes the two almost equal on that score .
FWIW , some guys over on the Walther Forum have modified the M1 mags to fit the M2 , or vice versa , just can`t remember , which with no problems and say it`s not hard to do .
Also , in the FWIW category , I`m currently running a Ameriglo Glock front sight and a Dawson rear on my PPQ ..... really simple to adapt it and it`s a much more visible sight .
That said , Truglo now makes sights for the PPQ that fit with no modifications , which I have on order for a test run .

Hmac

03-21-19, 10:23

My first PPQ (PPQ Classic) had the paddle. When I bought the second one, it was at a time when Walther was selling both PPQ Classic and PPQ M2...I opted for the Classic again so I wouldn't have to re-buy a slew of similar-but-different magazines. Clever of HK to avoid falling into that trap.

I'm completely indifferent to button vs paddle release. I activate it with my middle finger and have no trouble working it on either the PPQ Classic or the VP9 without shifting my grip. I actually have to shift my grip more on pistols with the button release than on pistols with the paddle. Interesting that HK has followed Walther's lead and opted for a button release model on the VP-9b. Just goes to show the gun-buying power of the US market, I guess.

nick84

03-21-19, 20:54

Sorta on topic, but off comparison; anyone have the new long slide kit for the VP9? It looks cool, but I'm not sure it's worth whatever they want for it. I shoot the regular one quite well, its my most accurate striker fired 9mm, beating the G19 and the X Carry. Because it works well as is, any upgrades would be a huge luxury, but worth considering. I don't really EDC the full size VP9 on account of its size, so I might consider making it even more of a range toy.

Bodhi

03-22-19, 23:42

lsllc

03-23-19, 06:21

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190323/7570cf19dbdca2a2a694e3d98ff84817.jpg

I’ve got a VP9L. I love it. Great sights, very accurate. It seems to shoot softer/flatter than a regular VP9, too. Weight is identical.

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Circle_10

03-23-19, 06:27

I went back and forth on which I wanted, PPQ or VP9, and ended up with the VP9. I actually CCW'd it for almost three years despite it being kinda too big for the purpose.
Last year when I decided I really needed a smaller CCW gun, I was undecided on whether I wanted the VP9SK or the PPQSC, although it was less of a dilemma because I already had mags and holsters for the VP9 and that sort of made my decision for me.
I currently have about 3200 rounds through the VP9SK, with two malfunctions - one that was probably my fault and one that was possibly my fault.
I carry it in my Raven Concealment Phantom that I bought for my full sized VP9, so the holster is somewhat bigger than it needs to be but because it's on the barrel end, practically speaking, it's not really an issue
One thing I did on both my full-sized VP9 and SK was replace the factory polymer striker plate with its debris ingress port....err I mean striker viewing hole, with the solid aluminum units from HK parts. I care a lot more about keeping crap out of my pistols than I do about being able to visually tell if the striker is cocked.
Besides the stupid factory striker plates with the holes, my only complaints about the VP9 series are: mag capacity seems like it should be higher, which is a minor gripe. And that they seem slightly weakly sprung. The latter thing hasn't caused issues when shooting, but it seems like the VP9 series' slide might be easier to push out of battery than some other designs, or might have trouble going into battery in the first place when dirt or whatever is in the gun, but this is just speculation on my part as I haven't thrown mine in the mud or had to jam the muzzles into anyone's ribcage for a contact shot (which could force pretty much any semi-automatic out of battery anyway I assume)
Although it is interesting that starting with the release of the VP9 Tactical a couple years back and later extending to all new full sized VP9s, HK now uses the same heavier recoil spring from the VP40 as standard in the 9mms as well.
As I purchased my full-size in January of 2015, it still has the original red colored recoil spring that the early guns had as standard.

Sorta on topic, but off comparison; anyone have the new long slide kit for the VP9? It looks cool, but I'm not sure it's worth whatever they want for it. I shoot the regular one quite well, its my most accurate striker fired 9mm, beating the G19 and the X Carry. Because it works well as is, any upgrades would be a huge luxury, but worth considering. I don't really EDC the full size VP9 on account of its size, so I might consider making it even more of a range toy.

I was interested in the VP9L back when I saw the pics come out in like 2017, that version lacked the holes cut in the slide, and the idea of a longslide VP9 appealed to me. Honestly I'm not crazy about the holes on the current iteration. They look gamer-ish to me, and I can envision crap getting in there. What is the purpose for them? Lightening the slide for better cycling like the cutout on the older Glock 34s?

nick84

03-26-19, 09:39

I'm under the impression that the reason for lightening the slide is to reduce the reciprocating mass; so yes, to reduce or lighten the actual recoil or maybe the felt recoil. Something like that. But for me, its like I said, I carried the VP9 for a while, but now it has really been reduced to a range toy, so cuts in the slide that look cool don't worry me. I won't need to pick it up out of the mud in the middle of the night to hold off Charlie. Again though, probably not worth the bother at 500 bucks or whatever they want for it. Does seem like it would make a sweet shooter even better, though.

montrala

03-27-19, 07:00

Honestly I'm not crazy about the holes on the current iteration. They look gamer-ish to me, and I can envision crap getting in there. What is the purpose for them? Lightening the slide for better cycling like the cutout on the older Glock 34s?

Thanks to slide cuts SFP9L slide is only 60g (2.1oz) heavier than SFP9 slide (that is slightly lighter than VP9 slide). If you are afraid of cuts allowing crap to get in the gun, never use Beretta M9 where most of slide is just one, huge cut :)

BTW Those cuts on SFP0L/VP9L give much more positive grip for slide racking for those who like grip by front part of the slide.