View Full Version : Best irons available, not BUIS, as full time sights
Well I've tried Aimpoint CompM4S and T1. I've tried eotech and magnifiers, I've tried burris and Leupold low power variables, and while they have benefits, I just don't enjoy using them. So I would like all your opinions on the best stand alone iron sights. I have a BCM upper with Centurion arms rail, so no FSB. I run KAC micros, but if I'm going just irons, I'm not sure if I want to use folders.
I currently sold my last red dot and I either spend the money on another optic, or a good set of irons and ammo. My shooting is done out to 200 yards. My groups are fine with irons. I shoot muzzleloader all the time, so I'm comfortable with irons. My pistol is my go-to for home defense, so I'm not using that as a reason to keep optics. So what do those that run only irons use? Are things like tritium sights worth looking at. I have a x300 mounted, so light is not an issue. Thanks for the replys,
SOL1777
dmaxfireman
07-25-15, 15:08
My first choice would be either an A1 or A2 carry handle and a pinned FSB , if you don't want to change out your barrel and are stuck with your above requirements then I would say LMT fixed front and rear.
steyrman13
07-25-15, 15:10
LMT or DD sights or carry handle for the rear. You may have enough took in front of the rail to make a Dissapator config for a Fixed FSP
LMT front and rear, or fsb with LMT rear.
DD fixed front and rear. I am back and forth on tritium in irons. For your use probably not.
The DD buis are quite fragile in my experience. Nothing beats the FSB as far as I know. I'd probably go with an LMT rear.
On my Dpms it's the gas block front sight and troy rear. If I had a rail it would be the troy front. Both non folding.
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FollowThru
07-25-15, 16:34
I use the DD fixed front & rear. They are excellent sights and well made along with not be overly expensive.
As far being fragile? No, unless you pound on them with a hammer.
I use the DD fixed front & rear. They are excellent sights and well made along with not be overly expensive.
As far being fragile? No, unless you pound on them with a hammer.
Or accidentally drop them onto the concrete from a table.
SocomShooter
07-25-15, 17:49
I'm actually tackling a build right now and a set of DD fixed sights will be the only thing on top. I'm starting to worry that I'm far too dependent on optics, and I'd like to get back to my roots a little. Definitely excited to get behind the trigger of this thing.
http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-604a.JPG
LMT and DD were the ones I was considering. Its not that I shoot bad with the optics, just it's not enjoyable. Maybe a part of it is getting back to my roots, but shooting muzzleloader and my 03A3 all the time, I just feel good behind irons. Yes I know a RDS is valuable in a cqb situation and a scope is great for distance. If I was going to war, then he'll yeah I'd go that route. But it's just range time and marksmanship I'm into. I'm considering buying a used compm3 or something just have around, just in case.
I enjoy shooting irons too.
I would go with a set of DD fixed. Don't worry about the front sight, rail clamps to the stock barrel nut.
I like the LMT cut down carry handle for the rear, for the front an FSB with a fine post; something similar to what is on the KAC micros. The standard ones are way too thick.
ColtSeavers
07-25-15, 23:35
If I were to use Irons (which i was actually planning on doing not too long ago) without a FSB, I came to the conclusion that these are the best sights I could buy:
POF Front sight.
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/images/pof/fta2005a.jpg
Larue Rear sight. (ETA with XS same plan aperture not shown in pic)
http://www.skdtac.com/v/vspfiles/photos/LRT.202-3.jpg
Centurion Arms Dipoter sights would be my choice.
http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-604a.JPG
Thats what I'm talking about.
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Thanks for everyone's response. I decided to go with the LMT front and rear. I just like the added adjustability of the set over the DD. I'll place it in the equipment exchange, but if anyone has a set of these, I'll trade you straight up my KAC micro with 300 meter rear. Thanks again guys,
SOL1777
Another vote for DD front and rear.
Ed
funkybassplayer
07-26-15, 15:34
DD fixed irons all the way!!!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/26/12e7b9c43943dd4b0518324d7db5add0.jpg
-BTO-
http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-604a.JPG
I just built a nodak upper with a 20" FSB barrel. It is pretty sweet with Magpurr handguards, a light, and a sling. Super low weight for what it is, no frills, just irons, sling, light. I will post a pic when I get around to taking pictures.
Awesome can't wait for pics
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http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/image4006.jpg
black22rifle
08-01-15, 00:59
agreed.
I am contemplating going with a 14.7" or 16" midlength instead of my 20". I really like the increased sight radius even though I know 16" is probably more practical.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YEmNKQ5FYbU/VbwuonSyBZI/AAAAAAAAEiw/J4oDXSx9dMk/w1165-h655-no/20150731_192848.jpg
DD fixed irons all the way!!!
-BTO-
Agreed. I also really like LaRue's rear sight, I'm sure they could make a tank of a front sight if they wanted.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/311/19507727930_0b90868d9c_c.jpg (https://farm1.staticflickr.com/311/19507727930_616e22c75c_o.jpg)
Dr. Bullseye
10-16-17, 18:28
Going against all grains, I use KAC 200-600 Standard flip up sights as my primary iron sights. The advantage is they flip down, lowering the profile, weight and go through brush much easier. The other big advantage is they are pedestal sights and so you retain more vision downfield than you do being behind boxy, bulky sights with knobs and dials. The KAC sights adjust quickly. The only disadvantage was I missed the ghost ring. So I made a ghost ring. KAC sells a fixed 300 yard sight but having zeroed mine for 200, I wanted to retain it and the fixed 300 was too tall. I could have bought another KAC 200-600 and drilled out the peep, but that is a $190.00 item and an expensive experiment. Instead, I ordered a KAC 200-600 Chinese clone for $27.00. It was the same dimensions and the same height. It did not need to adjust so I drilled it out using a .25 inch bit, then a pointed needle file and then a thin tube of 350 sandpaper. It was about .30 inch. I dipped it in Birchwood Casey Aluminium Black, mounted it ahead of my original KAC---and the sucker= works perfectly! Talk about quick acquisitions? This is an amazing Ghost and mounted further forward only seems to enhance its ability. Carry Handle=9 oz. Two KACs=4 oz. Couple this with a Meprolight tritium front sight and I may never get an electrified optic.
Centurion HK diopters.
I just came across these today. For fixed iron they'd be on the short list for sure.
Uhh this thread is almost 3 years old BUT Scalarworks takes the crown on this one.
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If anyone is interested, Centurion Arms just re released their HK style C4 diopter sights. These things haven't been out in a while from my understanding. I received an email saying they are a limited run.
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Uhh this thread is almost 3 years old BUT Scalarworks takes the crown on this one.
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I ended up with DD due to price (it's a fun gun) and I didn't want to wait for the release, but the scalar works look top notch. I think they are the only, or at least one of the few 7000 series Al sights. If you want to run irons as a primary, I'd definitely try them out.
voiceofreason
10-17-17, 20:36
Scalarworks are available for full retail price at their website right now.
If anyone is interested, Centurion Arms just re released their HK style C4 diopter sights. These things haven't been out in a while from my understanding. I received an email saying they are a limited run.
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I got that email as well. I have neither the funds or the need right now, but I'm still tempted. HK sights were the shit 10 years ago and my inner younger self really wants them...
Yeah, I didn't know HK sight on an AR was a thing outside of the HK platform rifles. IMO, a VERY strong solution for a HD type rifle running a white light only.
SavageBrew84
10-18-17, 11:44
I'm really interested in the ScalarWorks BUIS myself. I've also seen what looks like some pre-production Geissele BUIS that have been sent out for testing that might be worth looking into in the *hopefully* near future.
Bob Sacamano
10-18-17, 13:12
I assume the OP has moved and did not want a FSB.
Having assembled a few dedicated iron sight uppers over the years, below are my thoughts/what I have learned.
When using primarily irons, my preference has been a standard barrel mounted FSB.
Ideally, the FSB is as close to the muzzle as possible. Not always easy to do with off the shelf parts/barrels. Not sure if Noveske still makes their 18" Irons barrel but that was probably the best solution (assuming you wanted an 18” barrel and intermediate gas). Other options are to have a .625 FSB opened up to match the barrel diameter behind the muzzle or have a custom contour barrel made with a .750 or .625 seat behind the muzzle.
Plenty of set screw/windage adjustable FSB options out there. Some require flats milled on the barrel, some don't. Not a fan of either style. JP makes a clamp on FSB that is also an adjustable GB but they are not cheap and I am not a fan of that type of adjustable gas block. I do like the clamp style over the set screw and it is what I would use for a FSB behind the muzzle, in conjunction with a separate gas block.
The challenge with standard FSB is to have the installed correctly. I like to have them pinned but also like to have the windage zero end up close to the mechanical center of the rear sight. Aligning the FSB with the index pin on the barrel extension is not always the best solution. I know, sometimes you can get lucky and it ends up close, but sometimes it doesn’t. You don’t know until the upper is built then fixing it may not be practical or elegant.
I send my uppers to Ken Breda for pinning. He centers the rear sight then uses an optical collimator to align the front and rear sights with the bore prior to pinning (only ½ diameter of pin cut into barrel). He can also finish threading the front sight post hole then add a set screw from the bottom to take out the wiggle. The front sight elevation detents are still there and can be used if you back out/remove the set screw first.
With shipping, its not cheap but if you plan to use iron sights only, the front sight is important.
If you think you want to use BRT ports, I would modify the FSB before having it pinned. Not sure if Ken provides that service, but I would guess that he has the ability.
For rear sights, assuming you want an adjustable version, I think LMT A2 style are good if you don’t want a full carry handle. I like the carry handle and use WOA standard and pinned versions with USGI apertures. The way WOA pins, you loose the ability to switch between the apertures. It’s a small sacrifice on a rifle but for this reason, on a carbine, I would skip the pinning. No sure if WOA still offers ½ moa rears but I prefer ½ moa clicks to the standard ¼ moa. ¼ moa is not bad with a shorter sight radius but seems too fine for a practical/field use rifle. I know some others offer pinned rear sights but have no experience with them.
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