Art of the pocket pistol: Advice needed.

[TH Moxy]

One night this week in my town we had 11 armed robberies in 6 hours. Things have been getting worse and worse in my area. One of the armed carjackings was in a parking lot which I often park.

I am 24 and have had my CCW since I was 21. I carry a S&W Bodyguard 380. I either pocket carry or carry with my IWB Raven holster with G-Code belt clips on the 4-5 o clock position with 1-2 extra mags. Recently I've had issues with the bodyguard while shooting. From the laser failing from sweat, to the actual gun having light primer strikes. Now, I do clean my pistol but not every day. Once a week I do a deep clean but I work outside and it gets some heavy sweat and general debris in and around it. Another issue I am having is that the magazine ejects randomly, but seems most when I sit down.

I chose a 380 because I'm a taller slimmer guy. No full size 1911's are possible for me. However I am looking for consult from others who have perhaps had some dilemmas such as mine and perhaps have some recommendations as far as pistols, carry style and any other information.

I was looking at the Sig P238 as it looking like a nice upgrade. Fits well, and the non DAO trigger is appealing. However my LEO buddy said he didn't like it. Curious if anyone has any other suggestions. I'm looking for something that can take abuse, not rust from sweat and be very reliable in the smallest footprint possible yet still enjoyable to shoot (as much as possible in such a pocket pistol)

Thanks for reading this far.

[Tigereye]

I pocket carried a 642 in a pocket holster to church today. But, it is not enjoyable to shoot. I also carry a Shield 9mm in an IWB Alien some of the time. It is more of a pleasure to shoot. My favorite carry is either the Shield or a G19.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Expect trouble? Carry a real gun!

[LibertyNeverDies]

Glock 42.

I just got one and I love it!

The gun is a laser. At 5 yards I was shooting 2 inch group which for me with a gun that small is crazy. I can only do 1.5inch with my Glock 19 which I am know inside and out.

PPS my dad has one and it's a tack driver. Doesn't have the best trigger pull and the grip isn't the most comfortable but it shoots well. Your experience firing is much better than fondling in the gun store. It shoots like a full size gun.

Glock 43. I just got one also and it's the exact opposite of the PPS. Feels good in the store but after shooting and dry firing it'll NEED the trigger guard undercut and a trigger job wouldn't hurt. I was struggling to gun hit a 12x18 target at 15 yards. And I five yard with slow deliberate fire I was around 6inches. I blame it all on the trigger.

[TH Moxy]

Thanks for the input everyone. The same LEO friend I mentioned has a G42 and I have shot it. I thought it a large upgrade in terms of grip and recoil compared to the bodyguard, not to mention the trigger. However I thought it too large of a physical increase in size as well but I think it is manageable. At the time he had limited carry time with it since he hadn't qualified with it yet. Since though he likes it and still carries it as a backup. I've never owned a glock so I wasn't instantly wooed by it upon release, however I will try to shoot it again if my local store will let me loan it for a day.

Some others I was looking into was the shield and the new Remington PM 380, my dad says that one is suppose to be real nice.

I know I should carry a "real gun" but for my work and social setting it just wouldn't fly. I've tried with a double stack and it sticks out like a fatty tumor anywhere on my hip or is way to uncomfortable to sit / drive with. (I don't like to have to readjust at all during the day). This makes weight an issue too if I have to take a piss at work (construction so ya know...) I don't want it dropping my drawrs or falling in the blue lagoon. 12-15oz is ideal weight wise.

Anyways look forward to reading more suggestions. Thanks again.

[drsal]

Eleven armed robberies in 6 hours.....
MOVE to a better neighborhood.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Pick up a J-frame 642/442. Best all-around pocket pistol in my opinion. Probably the most reliable gun across a wild variety of situations, and safe to carry even without a holster in a pinch. That being said, 11 armed robberies in 6 hours sounds like you need to be carrying an Ar-15!!

[SocomShooter]

I'll start this off by saying I live in a difficult county to have restrictions removed from your permit, thus I don't carry concealed.

With that being said, I took a CCW course last year with Rochester Personal Defense, and they asked specifically that people not use the super-small pocket pistols in the course. His reasoning is that they're harder to control and it's just a crutch to fall back on when you can't find the right holster/carry method to conceal your weapon.

Again, just "throwing that out there." If and when I do obtain my unrestricted permit, my go-to will either be my J-frame Airweight, or my S&W 3913. The latter is one of my favorite old work horses; super slim and has never failed to fire any type/weight ammo.

[HKGuns]

I shot a Kahr CM9 last weekend and was impressed by its smooth DAO trigger and its controllability. Most other pocket 9's I have shot border on wanting to jump out of your hands.

I'm now looking at a couple of the better made Kahr's as a small frame alternative for pocket carry. Specifically the P9.

My main small carry pistol was a P2000SK before I picked up a P30SK weekend before last. The P30SK can pretty easily fit in my shorts pocket.

[SpecWired]

I'm considering joining the pocket pistol club in the near future. I'm leaning toward a Glock 42 or 43.

42 is smaller and lighter (barely). 43 has caliber uniformity with the pistols in my house, including a CZ Evo Scorpion.

[T2C]

I'm considering joining the pocket pistol club in the near future. I'm leaning toward a Glock 42 or 43.

42 is smaller and lighter (barely). 43 has caliber uniformity with the pistols in my house, including a CZ Evo Scorpion.

The Glock 42 is easy to drop in a front pocket and a spare magazine is easily carried. They are reasonably accurate and recoil is easily manageable.

I just picked up a Glock 43. The more I shoot my new Glock 43, the more I am thinking it might replace my J Frame as a daily carry weapon with the Glock 42 as a back up when wearing light summer clothing.

There are some good choices on the market.

[TH Moxy]

Should have also mentioned I live in Florida. The heat prevents wearing extra layers. The new glock 43 does look promising, but as I've yet to see or handle one I have no clue on it. T2C, how is it compared to shooting the G42?

[T2C]

Should have also mentioned I live in Florida. The heat prevents wearing extra layers. The new glock 43 does look promising, but as I've yet to see or handle one I have no clue on it. T2C, how is it compared to shooting the G42?


Some people complain about the recoil. Recoil is a lot more noticeable with the Glock 43 than the Glock 42, but manageable. The recoil doesn't bother me, but I normally shoot a J Frame S&W. If you can shoot one before buying, it would be a good idea.

I would give the Glock 42 an edge on recoil, accuracy and weight. The wife has access to both and picks the Glock 42 every time she leaves the house.

I have owned Kahr 9mm's, a S&W 3913, a S&W 3914 and fired a S&W Chief (cut down 3913), S&W Bodyguard .380's, Colt Ponies, Walther PPK .380's and other pistols. I would choose a Glock 43 over any of them. The Glock 42 is a good option if you are recoil sensitive.

[19852]

Another vote for the small revolver. Revolvers are tolerant of neglect, not abuse, but one can stuff them in a pocket and forget to oil. The trigger pull may suffer but a quality revolver should still work.
Should the need arise a concealed hammer revolver will fire from inside a pocket or at contact distance.

[T2C]

Another vote for the small revolver. Revolvers are tolerant of neglect, not abuse, but one can stuff them in a pocket and forget to oil. The trigger pull may suffer but a quality revolver should still work.
Should the need arise a concealed hammer revolver will fire from inside a pocket or at contact distance.


You bring up a valid point. You have to pay more attention to cleaning and lubrication to keep the weapon running with a small semi-automatic pistol than a small revolver carried in a pocket or under clothing.

[Flankenstein]

I'm considering joining the pocket pistol club in the near future. I'm leaning toward a Glock 42 or 43.

42 is smaller and lighter (barely). 43 has caliber uniformity with the pistols in my house, including a CZ Evo Scorpion.

The internet doesn't do the difference justice. I have a 42 and 43. The 42 is more than barley smaller and lighter. There is a noteworthy difference.

[Ron3]

If your a Glock guy and want something small and thin to wear on a belt go the Glock 43 9mm.

If you want a pocket pistol (not jeans pockets) on the large side go the for glock 42 .380. This gun will have a longer effective range than the very small pocket guns.

If you want a very small and light pocket pistol try the Kel-tec in .380 or .32 or Ruger LCP .380. I will say the Kel-tec .32 is more pleasant to fire and holds open on the last shot wear-as the .380 does not. There are also 10 shot mags by Kel-tec for the .32. (They are 9 round mags in reality) All of these have long, but safe triggers.

However if you can handle a little more bulk in your pocket go for a lightweight snub revolver like the Ruger LCR. This is the best and fastest pocket gun I've ever had. Nothing draws faster from a pocket than a snub nosed hammerless revolver from a good pocket holster. With this gun you can choose 9X19, (About 18 ounces loaded) .357 magnum (About 19 oz loaded) or .38 special (about 15 oz loaded)

These revolvers, like the Glocks above, have a more effective range than the small pocket guns. By that I mean you can put rounds into 6 inches at 25 yds without much trouble. Your not going to do that with a small pocket auto.

I've had a bunch of these type guns and the best small pocket auto IMO is the Kel-tec .32 and Beretta M950 .25. That being said I hardly ever carry such guns.

The best pocket gun of any type IMO is the Ruger LCR. (Mines a .357) I'll rarely carry it by itself though but regularly carry it as a 2nd gun (Not necessarily "back up") to a medium sized auto. (normally Glock 19)

Edited to add: Reading your post again and seeing belt-carry is okay with you, you want slim, and haven't mentioned a desire for large capacity I recommend the Glock 43 and a good IWB holster. If the recoil bothers you, wear a glove for part of your range time. Next question! :)

[Lost River]

I carry a J Frame daily as my BUG at work. It rides in my left front pocket, while I carry an issued M&P Compact .40 as my duty gun. That said, I much prefer the Glock over M&P line and carry a G19 off duty. Given you live in a high crime area, I would carry something more substantial than a pocket gun. When you need it, you need it in a bad way and since cretins tend to travel in packs these days, I want enough initial on board capacity to allow me to handle multiple assailants without reloading.

We investigated a homicide this weekend that was essentially an ambush by 2. I won't go into details, as it is an active investigation, but suffice to say, a person armed with only a J frame or tiny pocket auto might not have had enough armament to handle the bad guys.

[captdreifus]

I've carried a S&W 642 in a Desantis pocket holster for over 6 years. I recently switched to a Glock 43 in the same type holster and I couldn't be happier. The caveat to that is the size. I will not be able to pocket carry in jeans any longer, but I usually wear Vertx shorts/pants when off-duty these days anyways. But the size is a compromise I am willing to take since I shoot the 43 much better since it has real sights.

[CAVDOC]

In the pocket gun category there is simply nothing more reliable than a j frame. I also encourage if possible to buy new clothes to accommodate the gun, rather than buying a gun to accommodate the clothes
When I pocket carry I actually walk around much of the time with my hands in my pockets in a no. Threatening sheep stance - with the ability to instantly draw the pistol - IMO faster than any other method

[WickedWillis]

Expect trouble? Carry a real gun!

This is the best piece of advice here. Start carrying a larger framed handgun with a higher capacity if the shit has gotten that bad in your area.

[birdkiller]

TH Moxy,

So, I wrote up a reply, but I forgot to post it up. So take two:

I get exactly where you're at. I'm 21, and while I'd prefer to carry my 19 all the time, there are just some times/social groups where I can't swing it. Basically, when I'm hanging out with friends that see me all the time, and know I don't have an insulin pump on my hip or colostomy bag, I carry like I'm in a NPE. So while I can and have carried a 19 while hanging out with friends, the effort/mental game of constantly trying to not move in a way that prints just isn't always worth it to me. So I bought a shield.

I know there are recommendations to "carry a real gun" and to just dress around the gun, and I love the concept. But it just doesn't fit me. For me, I've got 24 rounds of Gold Dot 124gr +P 9mm ammo in a gun that I can shoot well, and conceal with almost no effort, in normal 21 year old clothes. I practice at distance, and last week pushed out to 60 yards on a reduced B/C zone steel hitting it with every round in a magazine. I can't find my times, but the shield has similar speeds at bill drills as my 19 does when shooting at 10 yards.

I'll agree that you should carry a bigger caliber. DocGKR has posted about the failures of 380acp defensive rounds, so I really would recommend bumping up to a 9mm. Check out a shield or Glock 43, better capacity than a revolver, easier to shoot, easier to reload, and better caliber than the bodyguard you're carrying. For me, the shield is my answer to dressing like a normal person and hanging out with fellow 20-whatever's without printing. Low-ride appendix is amazing. Try renting the shield and 43, try out low ride appendix, and let me know how it goes.

Good luck, hope something here helped,
BK

[TH Moxy]

BK,

Thanks for that post. Nice to hear I'm not alone in my situation. The shield has been on my radar for a long time. Will post more when I get home.

Thanks again everyone for all the insight. Really like this site.

[richiecotite]

Have you ever tried appendix carry? Seems like those who do prefer it to anything else, and guns almost disappear with the right holster


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[birdkiller]

Not to speak for TH Moxy, but I carry exclusively appendix when I'm carrying concealed. I love it. I couldn't see carrying on or behind my hip under most circumstances unless it was the winter and I needed to carry a gun with a light. I've tried a range of appendix holsters, from the vanguard 2, up to the Dale Fricke Archangel, and a few inbetween. For me, I need to have a lower riding holster to experience the " even my desert eagle disappears" effect that people rave about. I can comfortably carry my 19 with a good chunk of my shirts without printing. In this heat though (AZ) I've been opting for the shield, especially when with social groups.

I just started chuckling out loud when I saw a guy carrying at 4:30 today at lunch. The poor guy thought he was concealed, but his Glock 17, with zero cant, and tight shirt just weren't cutting it. For me, with the right holster, appendix means I can carry a decent sized gun most of the time, and a single stack all the time. I'm going to be posting up a review here soon-ish on the holsters I've tried, and maybe try and get a "how I carry" thread going through that where others post up there style, location, needs, and environment.

- BK

[TH Moxy]

Have you ever tried appendix carry? Seems like those who do prefer it to anything else, and guns almost disappear with the right holster


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I have tried, albeit limited and with a double stack. I carried a xdsc .40 in a HSP INcog holster. To me it was very uncomfortable, especially bending, sitting or driving. Also taking a piss mean I had to use a stall since it would want to fall. However with a lighter, single stack smaller caliber it may work better so I will have to try again.

[TH Moxy]

Anybody ran the sig p238 much?

[Bluto]

I too live in south Florida and summer carry is always a challenge. Weather and clothing permitted I usually carry a glock 19 or commander 1911, but when it's really hot and the clothing of the day is shorts and t-shirt (sometimes no shirt), I carry a kimber solo. I know kimber doesn't get much love, but my solo has been perfect...

[TH Moxy]

I too live in south Florida and summer carry is always a challenge. Weather and clothing permitted I usually carry a glock 19 or commander 1911, but when it's really hot and the clothing of the day is shorts and t-shirt (sometimes no shirt), I carry a kimber solo. I know kimber doesn't get much love, but my solo has been perfect...

Anyone else carry on the 3-4 o clock have issues with their mags ejecting pre-maturely?

[birdkiller]

With what gun/holster?

[TH Moxy]

Bodyguard 380 and raven kydex IWB