View Full Version : M16s -> M4s for all Marines?
http://i.imgur.com/dAupLBF.jpg
Thoughts on replacing all M16s with M4s for all Marines?
By the way, the casing that looks like it's coming out of the barrel isn't a terrible photoshop, it just happened to be at the right spot when the photo was taken.
Also interesting is the lack of a rear BUIS. I understand why, with the eye relief of the TA31 ACOG you may not have any space for BUIS... but why then do we still use FSBs?
This has been going around for a few years. I think I first heard it around 09-10. I'm not sure if the Corps would ever actually do it, every Marine a rifleman and all that crap, but then I was surprised when some of my boots told me they got issued A4s at boot camp. M4s make sense, especially in a place like Iraq where nearly every swinging dick is mounted or clearing houses. And for what it's worth, at the 500 I never really noticed a difference in my rifle score between the A2, A4 or M4. As for having the front sight and no rear buis, he probably just doesn't have it mounted and it's cheaper to issue the M4 you already have verses cutting down the fixed front sight and installing a new rail.
SilverBullet432
07-27-15, 07:41
Marines dont want civilian protection at recruiting centers? Agreed on the BUIS situation, but i doubt they will develop a "no FSB" package just for the cause.
When I was in only the infantry units had the BUIS. Or at least those were the only ones I saw with them. And even then we weren't required to sight them in. Marine Corps has full confidence in the Acog aparently.
Eurodriver
07-27-15, 10:06
I had a BUIS and never used it.
I had the A4 and I needed all the eye relief I could get.
Most folks didn't use a BUIS either.
I don't like the idea of ditching the A4.
http://i.imgur.com/dAupLBF.jpg
By the way, the casing that looks like it's coming out of the barrel isn't a terrible photoshop, it just happened to be at the right spot when the photo was taken.
That looks like some seriously strong froward ejection.
JBecker 72
07-27-15, 12:10
Marines don't have BUIS because all of the USMC marked Knights 200-600 meter micros wound up on eBay instead of on rifles.
Digital_Damage
07-27-15, 13:42
Marines don't have BUIS because all of the USMC marked Knights 200-600 meter micros wound up on eBay instead of on rifles.
LOL prob true!
"I need beer money" "take off your rear BUIS and sell it"
LOL prob true!
"I need beer money" "take off your rear BUIS and sell it"
More like they never got past the armorers to be issued out.
I always thought it was funny that I had an A4 in the Army and my 0351 brother in law had a M4.
Im still a big supporter of the A4 as I used it successfully in urban and rural combat. However I cant deny that the M4 is better for urban combat and not really hindered in rural settings compared to a rifle.
Outlander Systems
07-27-15, 19:07
I still have an undying love for the musket.
Easy solution to the rear BUIS issue. The KRAM from Macedon Defense. It's a riser/spacer that will allow you to move the ACOG a little more to the rear and mount a BUIS.
I have been using it since it's inception and was one of the original testers.
http://www.macedondefense.com/the-kram.html
So is it "Every Marine a carbineman" now?
So is it "Every Marine a carbineman" now?
What happens when we get lasers and female infantry?
Every Marine a laserperson?
So is it "Every Marine a carbineman" now?
No, a carbineperson or a rifleperson. (sarcasm emoticon here)
MountainRaven
07-29-15, 15:20
So is it "Every Marine a carbineman" now?
Carbineer.
Easy solution to the rear BUIS issue. The KRAM from Macedon Defense. It's a riser/spacer that will allow you to move the ACOG a little more to the rear and mount a BUIS.
I have been using it since it's inception and was one of the original testers.
http://www.macedondefense.com/the-kram.html
Doesn't that alter the BDC of the ACOG by mounting it higher? I realize at closer ranges it may not be an issue but further out?
Easy solution to the rear BUIS issue. The KRAM from Macedon Defense. It's a riser/spacer that will allow you to move the ACOG a little more to the rear and mount a BUIS.
I have been using it since it's inception and was one of the original testers.
http://www.macedondefense.com/the-kram.html
I use one of these as well, its good to go, and I just got another ACOG I need to buy one for.
As far as the switch: smaller,lighter, more maneuverable, adjustable stock, whats not to like?
I use one of these as well, its good to go, and I just got another ACOG I need to buy one for.
As far as the switch: smaller,lighter, more maneuverable, adjustable stock, whats not to like?
I'll take an M16A5 (arguably the path they should have taken) over an M4 any day of the week.
http://41.media.tumblr.com/f4760d1915b1c9a0d0a9950ddbf25b79/tumblr_mok2ccaHBa1qdrno0o1_1280.jpg
HighDesert
08-01-15, 16:22
I'll take an M16A5 (arguably the path they should have taken) over an M4 any day of the week.
http://41.media.tumblr.com/f4760d1915b1c9a0d0a9950ddbf25b79/tumblr_mok2ccaHBa1qdrno0o1_1280.jpg
Why? I'm honestly curious.
What happens when we get lasers and female infantry?
Every Marine a laserperson?
Transweaponer?
Why? I'm honestly curious.
http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093
HighDesert
08-02-15, 01:05
http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093
Honestly, did you even read this article you posted to explain why you prefer a 20" over the 14.5" M4?????
This is the author's conclusion, which is why I ask:
"Thus, it is the opinion of the authors that barrel lengths less than 14.5” in this caliber introduce effectiveness issues that may be detrimental to the user."
Let me know your line of thought here... Or did you just Google the topic and post the first link that looked like it might support you?
Honestly, did you even read this article you posted to explain why you prefer a 20" over the 14.5" M4?????
This is the author's conclusion, which is why I ask:
"Thus, it is the opinion of the authors that barrel lengths less than 14.5” in this caliber introduce effectiveness issues that may be detrimental to the user."
Let me know your line of thought here... Or did you just Google the topic and post the first link that looked like it might support you?
I prefer mid-length or rifle-length systems over carbine-length for numerous reasons - 1) normally smoother running; 2) when using BUIS longer sight radius equals greater potential precision; 3) the longer handguards (or freefloat tube) allow more utility in firing positions, stances - I can drive a weapon equipped with mid-length or rifle length handguards with greater precision and speed on multiples, plus I can still come in on the handguard for unslung position shooting; 4) rifle length definitely gives you more real-estate to hang devices from - lights, lasers, etc.
My preference is 16" with a rifle gas-system, largely because they look cock and shoot nice.
I prefer mid-length or rifle-length systems over carbine-length for numerous reasons - 1) normally smoother running; 2) when using BUIS longer sight radius equals greater potential precision; 3) the longer handguards (or freefloat tube) allow more utility in firing positions, stances - I can drive a weapon equipped with mid-length or rifle length handguards with greater precision and speed on multiples, plus I can still come in on the handguard for unslung position shooting; 4) rifle length definitely gives you more real-estate to hang devices from - lights, lasers, etc.
My preference is 16" with a rifle gas-system, largely because they look cock and shoot nice.
I agree on the real-estate aspect of it. I have a 16" Colt 6720 barrel with the FSB cut down and a Lancer carbon-fiber handguard on it (I think it's the 13" one). While it is still a carbine gas system it nonetheless handles sweet. The options for hand placement depending on position are a big plus.
Let me know your line of thought here... Or did you just Google the topic and post the first link that looked like it might support you?
The difference in ballistic performance between 14.5 and 20 inches; and no, I did not Google the first article that looked like it might support me.
14.5 vs 20 is marginal vs adequate.
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