View Full Version : Planned Parenthood provides intact fetuses (i.e., children) to research companies
The murder of children is BIG business in the US.
Although the lake of fire awaits all of those complicit in the murder of this nation's children, federal felony indictments of those responsible would be icing on the cake.
In the video, actors posing as representatives from a human biologics company meet with Farrell at the abortion-clinic headquarters of Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast in Houston to discuss a potential partnership to harvest fetal organs.
“Where we probably have an edge over other organizations, our organization has been doing research for many many years,” explains Farrell. When researchers need a specific part from the aborted fetus, Farrell says, “We bake that into our contract, and our protocol, that we follow this, so we deviate from our standard in order to do that.”
Asked specifically if this means Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast can change abortion procedures to supply intact fetal specimens, Farrell affirms, “Some of our doctors in the past have projects and they’re collecting the specimens, so they do it in a way that they get the best specimens, so I know it can happen.“
The investigators ask Farrell how she will frame a contract in which they pay a higher price for higher quality fetal body parts, and she replies, “We can work it out in the context of–obviously, the procedure itself is more complicated,” suggesting that “without having you cover the procedural cost” and paying for the abortion, the higher specimen price could be framed as “additional time, cost, administrative burden.”
Farrell finally summarizes her affiliate’s approach to fetal tissue payments: “If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It’s all just a matter of line items.”
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue is a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison or a fine of up to $500,000 (42 U.S.C. 289g-2). Federal law also requires that no alteration in the timing or method of abortion be done for the purposes of fetal tissue collection (42 U.S.C. 289g-1).
http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/2015/08/698/
brickboy240
08-04-15, 14:47
Our govt has NO business funding any part of this organization.
De-fund it...now.
Moloch could not be reached for comment.
Averageman
08-04-15, 17:06
I don't have an issue with someone donating their body to science, that's all good and well.
If this was my potential child in the womb of a Woman who chose to abort and gave permission for this, I think I might have a hell of an issue with it, especially if I told her I would raise the child on my own.
KalashniKEV
08-04-15, 18:15
You know it's a hoax...right?
yes planned parent hood is a hoax big time ! look at the history and who started it and its purpose
if you mean the videos ? ummmm sorry you can say what you want but they are on video saying what they said and in some of them doing and saying over parts etc.....
You know it's a hoax...right?
You know it's a hoax...right?
Explain. Explain the hoax between 13:00 and 14:00 minutes of that video.
Considering the group putting these videos out has ties to known fraudster James O’Keefe I would be very leery of anything in them. Every claim of them "selling body parts" has been debunked, but of course that doesn't fit the agenda, so it is ignored. Here in Indiana Governor Pence immediately had an investigation started. The investigators came back and said that there was nothing illegal or concerning going on.
I hate Abortion. I feel it should only be legal in cases of Rape, incest, health of the mother being in danger, etc. That does not mean I hate Planned parenthood. Abortion is an extremely small portion of their services. Hell, they don't even provide the majority of abortions in this country. Most of those are done at full hospitals. Defunding Planned parenthood is the our equivalent of stronger background checks and 10 round magazines. Ignorant and not addressing the real issue at all.
The other services they provide ranging from health screenings to contraceptives are invaluable, especially in low income areas. Here in Indiana they closed most of the Planned parenthood clinics after Pence was elected. This was followed quickly by an increase in Sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies. None of the clinics closed performed abortions or offered any abortion related services.
The simple fact is that people claim they are pro life. But what they really mean is that they are anti abortion. If you are pro life then you provide the other services needed. Pregnancy counseling, medical treatment for pregnant women. Care for new mothers... Guess who provides a lot of these services? You guessed it. Planned Parenthood.
Considering the group putting these videos out has ties to known fraudster James O’Keefe I would be very leery of anything in them. Every claim of them "selling body parts" has been debunked, but of course that doesn't fit the agenda, so it is ignored. Here in Indiana Governor Pence immediately had an investigation started. The investigators came back and said that there was nothing illegal or concerning going on.
I hate Abortion. I feel it should only be legal in cases of Rape, incest, health of the mother being in danger, etc. That does not mean I hate Planned parenthood. Abortion is an extremely small portion of their services. Hell, they don't even provide the majority of abortions in this country. Most of those are done at full hospitals. Defunding Planned parenthood is the our equivalent of stronger background checks and 10 round magazines. Ignorant and not addressing the real issue at all.
The other services they provide ranging from health screenings to contraceptives are invaluable, especially in low income areas. Here in Indiana they closed most of the Planned parenthood clinics after Pence was elected. This was followed quickly by an increase in Sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies. None of the clinics closed performed abortions or offered any abortion related services.
The simple fact is that people claim they are pro life. But what they really mean is that they are anti abortion. If you are pro life then you provide the other services needed. Pregnancy counseling, medical treatment for pregnant women. Care for new mothers... Guess who provides a lot of these services? You guessed it. Planned Parenthood.
Its preposterous to claim that defunding an organization that brutally murders children is to 2A proponents the equivalence of additional gun control laws. Planned Parenthood (PP) performs about 330,000 abortions/year, which amounts to roughly 30 percent of the yearly abortions performed in the U.S. PP is a business whose profits are greatly affected by the promiscuity of teens and young adults, especially among minorities. PP is in the business of murder, and is greatly responsible for the moral decline of America.
If you truly hate abortion, do realize that abortions are almost NEVER medically necessary to save the life of the pregnant mother. In instances of rape or incest, foster care or adoption is ALWAYS available.
The views of some of the members of this site are so, different, we should as much as it pains me to say, let it go. I don't, can't, and won't ever understand why, but it is so. We, as a group (members of a forum), should stick to talking about shooting, tactics, and gear. I will say that I am surprised by the views of some, but no one can change my views so I should not expect to change the views of anyone else. This topic is so much different than any other debate out there or here, that we should leave it alone or stand to draw some serious lines. JMHO
KalashniKEV
08-04-15, 20:55
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this whole episode was planned and orchestrated by Hillary Clinton to make Republicans look stupid.
Remember- she only has to beat her opponent, and rather than beat him or her on the battlefield of ideas, it's much easier to keep pulling the string to get an idiotic soundbite on certain issues.
Planned Parenthood is obviously not selling fetal tissue, and the title of this thread reads like "Magpul sells buttstocks (i.e., machine guns) over the internet with no background check!"
Every claim of them "selling body parts" has been debunked, but of course that doesn't fit the agenda, so it is ignored.
Be prepared for anger if you shed the light of truth on what these people have been told by their fraud machine... they don't want to hear facts... just oh-so-much emotion...
In fact, the money being discussed is for handling, and IMO is pretty low compared to shipping ITAR/ other sensitive stuff:
Fraudster: OK, so, when you are—or when the affiliate is—determining what that monetary... So that it doesn’t raise the question of... ‘This is what it’s about...’—What price range would you...?”
PP: You know, I would throw a number out, I would say it’s probably anywhere from $30 to $100, depending on the facility and what’s involved. It just has to do with space issues, are you sending someone there that’s going to be doing everything... is there shipping involved? Is someone going to be there to pick it up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ
Abortion is an extremely small portion of their services. Hell, they don't even provide the majority of abortions in this country. Most of those are done at full hospitals. Defunding Planned parenthood is the our equivalent of stronger background checks and 10 round magazines. Ignorant and not addressing the real issue at all.
Exactamundo.
Abortions represent only 3% of total services, and are not federally funded... that would be against the Hyde Amendment.
The other 97% of services were for contraception, treatment and tests for sexually transmitted diseases, cancer screenings, and other women’s health services.
BOOM. World shattered. Minds destroyed.
Abortions represent only 3% of total services, and are not federally funded... that would be against the Hyde Amendment.
The other 97% of services were for contraception, treatment and tests for sexually transmitted diseases, cancer screenings, and other women’s health services.
BOOM. World shattered. Minds destroyed.
The 3% figure is PP's attempt to obscure the fact that they perform approx. 30% of all abortions in the U.S. Let PP continue offering their other health services, without killing children. Plenty of health providers manage to do it.
Yep, PP is serious about women's health and cancer screening. Yet not a single one of their clinics can do a mammogram.
Yet the 10-20x as many community health centers that do not offer abortion do.
You can say its a hoax, yet PP has admitted their reps said those things, and rebuked own people.
The only thing they did defend is that they do not sell them for a profit. But admitted they do sell them. And are now on video admitting they alter procedures to allow them to sell, which is and has been against federal law.
Saying its a hoax just shows how misinformed people are.
This is not a debate about Roe v. Wade. There is no defense for PP's practice of selling body parts.
SeriousStudent
08-04-15, 21:43
The views of some of the members of this site are so, different, we should as much as it pains me to say, let it go. I don't, can't, and won't ever understand why, but it is so. We, as a group (members of a forum), should stick to talking about shooting, tactics, and gear. I will say that I am surprised by the views of some, but no one can change my views so I should not expect to change the views of anyone else. This topic is so much different than any other debate out there or here, that we should leave it alone or stand to draw some serious lines. JMHO
This is great advice. This website is M4Carbine.net. It's not PolySci.net, or FuriousDebate.com.
Abortions represent only 3% of total services, and are not federally funded... that would be against the Hyde Amendment.
The other 97% of services were for contraception, treatment and tests for sexually transmitted diseases, cancer screenings, and other women’s health services.
BOOM. World shattered. Minds destroyed.
So what percentage of PP's budget goes towards the 3% vs "97% other services"?
Likewise, If no fed money goes toward PP abortions, then why would PP care about the defunding bills? Given it does not impact anything but funding for abortion?
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-15, 21:51
Considering the group putting these videos out has ties to known fraudster James O’Keefe I would be very leery of anything in them.
Let's ask ACORN about how fraudulent O'Keefe is.
Progressives have gotten so used to getting their way and controlling the narrative that they have gone tone deaf to anything but their own twisted thinking and what stands for logic today.
Saying that PP does good things is like saying we should give Hitler a pass because he made good roads and the trains run on time- or that torturing Jews and gypsies gave us valuable medical insights so that was OK.
These vegan, anti-death penalty progresives that want to kill unborn children completely riddle me.
Go ahead, drink the PP kool-aide. I just suggest the blue, not the red versions....
This is great advice. This website is M4Carbine.net. It's not PolySci.net, or FuriousDebate.com.
Sorry, had posted my last response in parallel with your guidance
So noted, and I agree
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-15, 21:55
It is interesting to map out the belief and value systems of different members- and how it isn't a linear relationship.
It is interesting to map out the belief and value systems of different members- and how it isn't a linear relationship.
We are all conservatives as far as I have seen. But we are all over the map on that side of things. From Fundamentalist to libertarian. I find it interesting as well. But in the end I can't think of a single member I would not buy a beer if we were all out at a bar one night.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-04-15, 22:05
We are all conservatives as far as I have seen. But we are all over the map on that side of things. From Fundamentalist to libertarian. I find it interesting as well. But in the end I can't think of a single member I would not buy a beer if we were all out at a bar one night.
Exactly. I grew up in a large, Irish-Catholic family with several drinking 'issues' and old-school Jesuit/Socratic education tradition. Family dinner discussion was a full contact sport. I am comfortable at a level of acrimony that makes other people do that smile that makes you think they crapped their pants and don't want anyone to know about it.
I love you guys.
I just wished you loved little children as much as I do.
Wait, that came out wrong.
Exactly. I grew up in a large, Irish-Catholic family with several drinking 'issues' and old-school Jesuit/Socratic education tradition. Family dinner discussion was a full contact sport. I am comfortable at a level of acrimony that makes other people do that smile that makes you think they crapped their pants and don't want anyone to know about it.
I love you guys.
I just wished you loved little children as much as I do.
Wait, that came out wrong.
Especially with the Irish catholic upbringing.
Joking aside, I can say without hesitation that I am pro life.
So let me get this straight...
1) Certain individuals want to defund Planned Parenthood.
2) These same individuals are tired of undeserving welfare recipients popping out children just to get additional money from the government.
The lack of logic truly baffles me.
If one cannot support themselves on a minimum wage salary, they cannot support ANY children.
Therefore, they should not be allowed to have children.
Additionally, I would much prefer an aborted fetus be used for research, rather than thrown in the trash...
It is interesting to map out the belief and value systems of different members- and how it isn't a linear relationship.
It is indeed.
So let me get this straight...
1) Certain individuals want to defund Planned Parenthood.
2) These same individuals are tired of undeserving welfare recipients popping out children just to get additional money from the government.
The lack of logic truly baffles me.
If one cannot support themselves on a minimum wage salary, they cannot support ANY children.
Therefore, they should not be allowed to have children.
Additionally, I would much prefer an aborted fetus be used for research, rather than thrown in the trash...
I think at issue is the fact that there are other methods of birth control readily available which would eliminate the need for the vast majority of abortions.
In terms of having children, I've never been without work, so I cant really speak to what I would do, but my two natural children were conceived because my wife and I wanted a family, we really didn't discuss whether we could afford it, we were 21, been married over two-years and wanted a family.
And I'm kind of glad that the meth queen, stripper gal that had my two daughters didn't get abortions, instead she put the kids up for adoption when she realized that they weren't going to have a chance with her. I respect her for that.
This isn't a subject that has a cut and dried single solution answer.
post where they are debunked and the actors that played the rolls ? because those are the planned parent hood folks and some others in those videos so if they are bunk they would have been actors ?
and hitler also did some good stuff so guess we should all be praising him for those good things he has done
and as said they dont really ever perform any of those ? YIKES but I am sure you will say those claims are bunk also
also you really think we should be paying for this with tax money ? and you claim to be a conservative :) hahahaha I doubt that if you think we should be paying for this with tax money
Considering the group putting these videos out has ties to known fraudster James O’Keefe I would be very leery of anything in them. Every claim of them "selling body parts" has been debunked, but of course that doesn't fit the agenda, so it is ignored. Here in Indiana Governor Pence immediately had an investigation started. The investigators came back and said that there was nothing illegal or concerning going on.
I hate Abortion. I feel it should only be legal in cases of Rape, incest, health of the mother being in danger, etc. That does not mean I hate Planned parenthood. Abortion is an extremely small portion of their services. Hell, they don't even provide the majority of abortions in this country. Most of those are done at full hospitals. Defunding Planned parenthood is the our equivalent of stronger background checks and 10 round magazines. Ignorant and not addressing the real issue at all.
The other services they provide ranging from health screenings to contraceptives are invaluable, especially in low income areas. Here in Indiana they closed most of the Planned parenthood clinics after Pence was elected. This was followed quickly by an increase in Sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies. None of the clinics closed performed abortions or offered any abortion related services.
The simple fact is that people claim they are pro life. But what they really mean is that they are anti abortion. If you are pro life then you provide the other services needed. Pregnancy counseling, medical treatment for pregnant women. Care for new mothers... Guess who provides a lot of these services? You guessed it. Planned Parenthood.
MountainRaven
08-04-15, 23:49
I think at issue is the fact that there are other methods of birth control readily available which would eliminate the need for the vast majority of abortions.
In terms of having children, I've never been without work, so I cant really speak to what I would do, but my two natural children were conceived because my wife and I wanted a family, we really didn't discuss whether we could afford it, we were 21, been married over two-years and wanted a family.
And I'm kind of glad that the meth queen, stripper gal that had my two daughters didn't get abortions, instead she put the kids up for adoption when she realized that they weren't going to have a chance with her. I respect her for that.
This isn't a subject that has a cut and dried single solution answer.
Yeah, but then we get a certain segment of folks - many of them saying no abortion, no welfare - saying that sex education should be limited to abstinence.
You've got a choice: Teach kids how to use condoms, let them get abortions, or be prepared to pay for their kids.
(Abstinence-based sex education, more accurately absence of sex education, has never worked - go into church records going back as long as they have been kept and you'll find a HUGE number of people getting married... and then having their first kid six months later. And that's with superstitious people who believe the sun revolves around the earth with a genuine fear of hellfire.)
post where they are debunked and the actors that played the rolls ? because those are the planned parent hood folks and some others in those videos so if they are bunk they would have been actors ?
and hitler also did some good stuff so guess we should all be praising him for those good things he has done
and as said they dont really ever perform any of those ? YIKES but I am sure you will say those claims are bunk also
also you really think we should be paying for this with tax money ? and you claim to be a conservative :) hahahaha I doubt that if you think we should be paying for this with tax money
It wouldn't be difficult for the Brady bunch to pull a similar "sting": Take a bunch of video and then edit it to make it look like the NRA is facilitating the sale of unregistered SBRs, silencers, and machine guns.
The only thing that surprises me is that they haven't done it. Yet.
"If you don't want your tax dollars to help the poor, then stop saying you want a country based on Christian values. Because you don't."
-Jimmy Carter
I swear. There is a full-blown troll assault upon this site. Garbage, this is.
I swear. There is a full-blown troll assault upon this site. Garbage, this is.
Just be happy you aren't on TOS. When M4 went down last week I took a peek at their GD and the stupidity their would make your head spin. Same old creationists vs. evolutionist arguments, abortion topics that make the worst debate here sound downright civil. Bunch of people trying to use scientific terms and words they fundamentally don't understand.
That place has really, really, really changed.
I swear. There is a full-blown troll assault upon this site. Garbage, this is.
It's one of the easier and older of straw man arguments to say that anyone anti-abortion is pro-abstinence and is stuck in the 15th century. No one is saying that and he knows that.
The irony is the majority of women that demand and exercise their right to abortion, the most controversial and costly method of birth control, were the last to choose the easier and less costly methods of birth control.
Does anyone find it ironic that an organization called "Planned Parenthood" spends so much time and money dealing with the "unplanned?" (unwanted)
If PP is so effective at preventing pregnancies, then we shouldn't strip them of any money, right? It would seem to me their goal of preventing unwanted pregnancies isn't working so should we keep funding them?
The issue is we have a single organization with various goals and agendas being funded by the same budget. So if we attack PP then we are monsters because then we strip funding for women's health, prevention, screening, etc.
We would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
Sent using Tapatalk for HTC Android
I am not against abortion; I've always felt that this who oppose abortions should simply not get one, raise their kids to not need one and eventually the practice would die out as demand would drop. However, I also don't believe that it should be a primary means for birth control and there should be limits on the practice. Rape, incest, should have term limits (second trimester) medical emergency should be free for all IMO. I have no desire to make a woman deal with her rapists legacy for 10 months. Everyone else 1st trimester ONLY. 3 months is plenty of time to realize your pregnant and make a decision as to what your choice will be. Anything after that keep or adopt end of story.
This should obviously be supplemented with more proactive birth control methods as the end goal needs to be to absolutely minimize the need for an abortion. It's not rocket science. There are a gazillion safe ways to keep from getting or getting someone pregnant. Won't address the whole retarded mentality of my religion or whatever won't allow mento use birth control, so I'm going to have an abortion instead cause I didn't listen to the whole abstinence part of the sermon.
Outlander Systems
08-05-15, 08:58
http://stemexpress.com/shop/fetal-liver-cd133-stemprogenitor-cells-2/
Buyer: We need liver and we prefer, you know, an actual liver, not a bunch
of shredded up—
PP: Piece of liver.
Buyer: Yeah. Or especially brain is where it’s actually a big issue, hemispheres
need to be intact, it’s a big deal with neural tissue and the progenitors, because
those are particularly fragile. If you’ve got that in the back of your mind, if you’re
aware of that, technically, how much of a difference can that actually make if you
know kind of what’s expected or what we need, versus—
PP: It makes a huge difference. I’d say a lot of people want liver. And for
that reason, most providers will do this case under ultrasound guidance,
so they’ll know where they’re putting their forceps. The kind of rate-limiting
step of the procedure is the calvarium, the head is basically the biggest
part. Most of the other stuff can come out intact. It’s very rare to have a
patient that doesn’t have enough dilation to evacuate all the other parts
intact.
Buyer: To bring the body cavity out intact and all that?
PP: Exactly. So then you’re just kind of cognizant of where you put your
graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that,
you know, we’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we
know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m going to basically crush
below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.
And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to change
the presentation so that it’s not vertex, because when it’s vertex
presentation, you never have enough dilation at the beginning of the case,
unless you have real, huge amount of dilation to deliver an intact
calvarium. So if you do it starting from the breech presentation, there’s
dilation that happens as the case goes on, and often, the last, you can
evacuate an intact calvarium at the end. So I mean there are certainly steps
that can be taken to try to ensure—
Buyer: So they can convert to breach, for example, at the start of the—”
PP: Exactly, exactly. Under ultrasound guidance, they can just change the
presentation.
Buyer: Okay.
PP: So the preparation would be exactly the same, it’s just the order of the
removal of the products is different. And most people see that as not very
Buyer: Yea, we’re not talking about it needs to be a hysterotomy or anything, or
something crazy like that, in order to- there’s probably an easier solution to this
problem.
PP: And, we’ve been pretty successful with that. I’d say.
Buyer: So yesterday was a clinic day. So for example, what did you
procure?
PP: You know I asked her at the beginning of the day what she wanted,
yesterday she wanted, she’s been asking, a lot of people want intact hearts
these days, they’re looking for specific nodes. AV nodes, yesterday I was
like wow, I didn’t even know, good for them. Yesterday was the first time
she said people wanted lungs. And then, like I said, always as many intact
livers as possible. People just want—
Buyer: Yeah, liver is huge right now.
PP: Some people want lower extremities too, which, that’s simple. That’s
easy. I don’t know what they’re doing with it, I guess if they want muscle.
Buyer: Yeah. A dime a dozen.
PP: Mhm.
Buyer: Yeah.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1531
On a side note, is this little gem:
PP: PPFA National policy is you must comply with the Federal Abortion
Act. There are a variety of ways to do that. In fact, you can’t do that before 20
weeks. And there are affiliates who start at 20, there are affiliates that start at 22,
and there are affiliates who don’t do it at all. New York doesn’t do it at all, I don’t
know if you spoke with them. New York City is- what PPLA is on the west coast,
New York City is on the east coast. They don’t use dig, so you would have up to
24 weeks, the other thing is, that they’re volume is probably as big, if not bigger,
they do procedures Tuesday through Saturday
https://cheekychums.wordpress.com/tag/premature-babies-unit/
So, I'll say my shit and pop smoke.
For the soulless among you that throw around phrases like "clump of cells", well, it ain't my job to judge you, but I reckon you'll get to sort it out with the man upstairs.
If you familiarize yourself with what a baby's state is at 20-24 weeks is, and that these cold-blooded scum can casually discuss "crunching" and "crushing" up the most innocent of human beings, while nom-nom'ing on a ****in' salad, and sipping some pinot, and not see a problem...there isn't much I can say to you.
I can say this: I DO NOT want my tax-money going towards any of this shit. Not a ****in' cent. None. Zero.
The entire thing is a disgusting mess. If women want to go grind up their babies for the typical reasons, which essentially boil down to: "I don't want to accept/deal-with the consequences of my actions" the blood is on their hands, not mine. That being said, I do NOT support this, nor do I want my money to support this.
You folks realize the progenitor of PP was a ****in' eugenicist, right? No one is "crying foul" over the "racist"-Planned Parenthood.
So while we've all got our dicks in a knot over rebel flags and shooting a ****in' lion with a crossbow, no one gives a flying **** about black market/underhanded/grifting/hustling back-room corpse-peddling deals, and tactical extractions for ulterior motives.
Good Lord, I miss America.
SomeOtherGuy
08-05-15, 09:21
On various other places, and a little bit here, I've seen claims that the whole thing is a hoax. That seems to be the defensive strategy in the liberal MSM (for example, HuffPo). Can anyone point me to anything reliable that debunks these videos as a real hoax, either because (1) actors were used to play the role of PP sellers and no real PP people were involved, or (2) the videos were edited to be completely misleading to the point of being false, and not merely editing for time or flow?
I'm not interested in debates on the meaning of "is" (Clinton-style), and I can read the law and transcripts for myself and make up my own mind there. I'm just asking for any information on whether the videos are truly a hoax, or if that claim is itself false.
I think at issue is the fact that there are other methods of birth control readily available which would eliminate the need for the vast majority of abortions.
In terms of having children, I've never been without work, so I cant really speak to what I would do, but my two natural children were conceived because my wife and I wanted a family, we really didn't discuss whether we could afford it, we were 21, been married over two-years and wanted a family.
And I'm kind of glad that the meth queen, stripper gal that had my two daughters didn't get abortions, instead she put the kids up for adoption when she realized that they weren't going to have a chance with her. I respect her for that.
This isn't a subject that has a cut and dried single solution answer.
I'm not saying "let's abort fetuses".
When I say "birth control", I mean "birth control". That is, condoms, OCP, IUD, etc. All of which are funded by PP.
Bottom line: if you're against abortions, then don't have one
brickboy240
08-05-15, 09:41
If all PP was doing was providing pills and condoms, I would not have a problem but this garbage is something we REALLY should not be funding.
Also...if this IS a hoax as the left is saying...where is the proof that this is a hoax?
skijunkie55
08-05-15, 10:14
On various other places, and a little bit here, I've seen claims that the whole thing is a hoax. That seems to be the defensive strategy in the liberal MSM (for example, HuffPo). Can anyone point me to anything reliable that debunks these videos as a real hoax, either because (1) actors were used to play the role of PP sellers and no real PP people were involved, or (2) the videos were edited to be completely misleading to the point of being false, and not merely editing for time or flow?
I'm not interested in debates on the meaning of "is" (Clinton-style), and I can read the law and transcripts for myself and make up my own mind there. I'm just asking for any information on whether the videos are truly a hoax, or if that claim is itself false.
The MSM will say it's a "hoax" because "it takes a two hour conversation and cuts pieces out to make a 15 minute video"
That is not a hoax. That's just trimming a video. There is no audio editing or voice over. No CGI and green screens. The PP people said exactly what they said.
Outlander Systems
08-05-15, 10:17
The MSM will say it's a "hoax" because "it takes a two hour conversation and cuts pieces out to make a 15 minute video"
That is not a hoax. That's just trimming a video. There is no audio editing or voice over. No CGI and green screens. The PP people said exactly what they said.
^This
Those who dictate the official narrative are pulling a full-court press to discredit this and shut it down.
Those who don't care for this discussion aren't obligated to read this thread.
So, please if the subject matter for a thread isn't your cup of tea - don't try to censor it because reading it makes you squirm, just move on to other threads and let the grown ups continue with their input.
That being said: I'm not against abortion. I think using it as a form of birth control is despicable. I know one woman (and there are many others) who admitted to 4 abortions because she sneered at birth control. She was a hippy, dippy friend of my wife. The weird thing is she smart as hell in the I.Q. range, has a degree in mathematics and is an ace systems analyst, but when it comes to all vegan, (yeah she one of those) or natural this or that or social justice baloney she as screwy as a moon bat.
If Obama care is so great why do we have spend tax dollars for Planned Parenthood? Why is it still needed?
The videos are not a hoax as stipulated by Cecile Richards when she stated: "This is unacceptable, and I personally apologize for the staff member's tone and statements," said Cecile Richards, the group's president"?
And, various members of Congress know it's not a video hoax and are currently looking deeply into this mess. They know the videos are real and quite damning.
Doc Safari
08-05-15, 10:18
I was going to reply to this thread, but what I have to say won't convince anybody who believes differently from me, and those who agree with me don't need convincing.
Some years back, a graduating high school senior gave a short speech during church here. He tried to use the word "conscience", but it came out "con-science" (con pronounced as in "con"--against-- and "science"--as in global warming settled science). In other words, he had absolutely NO idea what he was talking about, and couldn't even pronounce the word properly. If anyone noticed, it wasn't apparent. How the hell can you fail more completely than that?
When nothing is forbidden, everything is permitted.
Outlander Systems
08-05-15, 10:40
Those who don't care for this discussion aren't obligated to read this thread.
So, please if the subject matter for a thread isn't your cup of tea - don't try to censor it because reading it makes you squirm, just move on to other threads and let the grown ups continue with their input.
That being said: I'm not against abortion. I think using it as a form of birth control is despicable. I know one woman (and there are many others) who admitted to 4 abortions because she sneered at birth control. She was a hippy, dippy friend of my wife. The weird thing is she smart as hell in the I.Q. range, has a degree in mathematics and is an ace systems analyst, but when it comes to all vegan, (yeah she one of those) or natural this or that or social justice baloney she as screwy as a moon bat.
If Obama care is so great why do we have spend tax dollars for Planned Parenthood? Why is it still needed?
The videos are not a hoax as stipulated by Cecile Richards when she stated: "This is unacceptable, and I personally apologize for the staff member's tone and statements," said Cecile Richards, the group's president"?
And, various members of Congress know it's not a video hoax and are currently looking deeply into this mess. They know the videos are real and quite damning.
This is summed up, right here:
Reasons for abortions:
Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following as their primary reasons for choosing an abortion:[70][71] The source of this information, takes findings into account from 27 nations including the United States, and therefore these findings may not be typical for any one nation.
25.9% Want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States
We, as a society, have embraced a culture of irresponsibility at all costs.
So much, in fact, that the murdering of a human child is preferable to having to come to terms with the consequences of one's own actions. That pretty much sums up the spiritual health of the world, for those of us of that persuasion, or a culture of complete decadence, self-absorption, and callousness for those of you who are more existentialist/humanist.
Either way, it is indicative of where the human race stands in terms of VALUES.
Cincinnatus
08-05-15, 12:28
I'm with you, Outlander, and other who have responded in a similar vein.
I'm with you, Outlander, and other who have responded in a similar vein.
As am I. to sit there over salad and discuss baby parts..disgusts me. Not a freakin penny of my tax dollar...
It's one of the easier and older of straw man arguments to say that anyone anti-abortion is pro-abstinence and is stuck in the 15th century. No one is saying that and he knows that.
The irony is the majority of women that demand and exercise their right to abortion, the most controversial and costly method of birth control, were the last to choose the easier and less costly methods of birth control.
Does anyone find it ironic that an organization called "Planned Parenthood" spends so much time and money dealing with the "unplanned?" (unwanted)
If PP is so effective at preventing pregnancies, then we shouldn't strip them of any money, right? It would seem to me their goal of preventing unwanted pregnancies isn't working so should we keep funding them?
The issue is we have a single organization with various goals and agendas being funded by the same budget. So if we attack PP then we are monsters because then we strip funding for women's health, prevention, screening, etc.
We would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
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If truth in advertising were applied to "Planned Parenthood", they would be called "Unwanted Pregnancy Solutions & Reproductive Health Services".
The problem as I see it is the typical leftist tactic of conflating "women's reproductive health", with providing abortions for non-medical reasons, then either recouping abortion costs or profiting from fetus harvesting (depending on who you talk to). Somehow if you're against an organization that receives a significant amount of tax dollars providing birth control via abortion (even if there's a fence between the tax dollars and abortions), you hate women. It's complete bullshit.
IF, "Planned Parenthood" is primarily a women's health service and as such, they deserve federal funding, then they shouldn't have a problem separating their abortion services for non medical emergencies entirely from the organization, correct? After all, abortions for emotional, financial, relationship, education, family size or other non-medical issues, don't have anything to do with women's reproductive health now do they? Doing this would allow them to provide better birth control methods to their clients without impediment.
That would solve most of "Planned Parenthood's" political issues entirely. Some other non-profit organization could seek donations from pro-abortion donors to provide free birth control abortions. Anti-abortion taxpayers would no longer have the concern about their taxes providing birth control abortions. After all, if abortion services are so crucial to women's rights, pro-abortion advocates should be willing to put their money where their mouths are, right?
Is there any flaw in this train of thought? :confused:
I would like to see proof/evidence of this being a hoax. Can any of the posters who claimed this provide factual evidence please? I'm not finding anything...
Thanks.
I did a little asking around to pro-choice folks I know and found some disturbing things out.
1) When asked if they thought it was okay to use the aborted fetus/sell it- they all said "YES it shouldn't be wasted". None of them knew it was illegal.
2) When told it is illegal to do so they all started saying in one way or another how wasteful and ridiculous it is for the practice to be illegal and we need to change that law.
This discussion took place with 5 people- all of them essentially said the same thing in different words/ways.
I was quite frankly pissed and horrified and had to bite my tongue with each of them- we rarely discuss these things for obvious reasons so I just shut myself down as to not get into it for real.
To think of an abortion as legitimate, morally okay and "Not wasting something" but to think of not using the aborted fetus as a waste just ****ing churned my stomach and made me want to put fist to face.
Sad times we live in folks...
If truth in advertising were applied to "Planned Parenthood", they would be called "Unwanted Pregnancy Solutions & Reproductive Health Services".
The problem as I see it is the typical leftist tactic of conflating "women's reproductive health", with providing abortions for non-medical reasons, then either recouping abortion costs or profiting from fetus harvesting (depending on who you talk to). Somehow if you're against an organization that receives a significant amount of tax dollars providing birth control via abortion (even if there's a fence between the tax dollars and abortions), you hate women. It's complete bullshit.
IF, "Planned Parenthood" is primarily a women's health service and as such, they deserve federal funding, then they shouldn't have a problem separating their abortion services for non medical emergencies entirely from the organization, correct? After all, abortions for emotional, financial, relationship, education, family size or other non-medical issues, don't have anything to do with women's reproductive health now do they? Doing this would allow them to provide better birth control methods to their clients without impediment.
That would solve most of "Planned Parenthood's" political issues entirely. Some other non-profit organization could seek donations from pro-abortion donors to provide free birth control abortions. Anti-abortion taxpayers would no longer have the concern about their taxes providing birth control abortions. After all, if abortion services are so crucial to women's rights, pro-abortion advocates should be willing to put their money where their mouths are, right?
Is there any flaw in this train of thought? :confused:
Agreed. I'm not sure if what I posted is confusing or you mean you're confused at this whole debacle. Some of your points are basically the points I was sarcastically making.
Abortions and health services should have separate budgets but if conservatives strip that budget they're demonized because they're viewed as defunding true health services as well.
I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. :)
I did a little asking around to pro-choice folks I know and found some disturbing things out.
1) When asked if they thought it was okay to use the aborted fetus/sell it- they all said "YES it shouldn't be wasted". None of them knew it was illegal.
2) When told it is illegal to do so they all started saying in one way or another how wasteful and ridiculous it is for the practice to be illegal and we need to change that law.
This discussion took place with 5 people- all of them essentially said the same thing in different words/ways.
I was quite frankly pissed and horrified and had to bite my tongue with each of them- we rarely discuss these things for obvious reasons so I just shut myself down as to not get into it for real.
To think of an abortion as legitimate, morally okay and "Not wasting something" but to think of not using the aborted fetus as a waste just ****ing churned my stomach and made me want to put fist to face.
Sad times we live in folks...
That is sad. :(
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Agreed. I'm not sure if what I posted is confusing or you mean you're confused at this whole debacle. Some of your points are basically the points I was sarcastically making.
Abortions and health services should have separate budgets but if conservatives strip that budget they're demonized because they're viewed as defunding true health services as well.
I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. :)
We're on the same page. I liked your post and wanted to reinforce it! :)
brickboy240
08-05-15, 14:08
Planned Parenthood is nothing about "planning" just like the Affordable Care Act is nothing about giving you a cheaper trip to the doctor!
The left loves to give deceiving names to their entities...this is nothing new.
SomeOtherGuy
08-05-15, 14:24
I did a little asking around to pro-choice folks I know and found some disturbing things out.
1) When asked if they thought it was okay to use the aborted fetus/sell it- they all said "YES it shouldn't be wasted". None of them knew it was illegal.
2) When told it is illegal to do so they all started saying in one way or another how wasteful and ridiculous it is for the practice to be illegal and we need to change that law.
This discussion took place with 5 people- all of them essentially said the same thing in different words/ways.
From what I have read, "donations" of the "tissue" from the aborted fetus are currently legal, if done without profit or profit motive. There is a wiggle area for defraying of costs of collection. I may not agree with this but it appears to be legal for now.
The videos seem to show haggling over prices and discussion of profit, which is not compatible with the currently legal type of donation. Current law also prohibits changing the abortion procedure to get more donatable tissue, and it appears that was being done or talked about as well.
You might ask the same people why we bury deceased adults, when we could instead be selling their organs for profit and dumping the rest in a compost pile or feeding it to farm animals. I don't think you would like the answers you'd get, however.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-05-15, 17:23
From what I have read, "donations" of the "tissue" from the aborted fetus are currently legal, if done without profit or profit motive. There is a wiggle area for defraying of costs of collection. I may not agree with this but it appears to be legal for now.
The videos seem to show haggling over prices and discussion of profit, which is not compatible with the currently legal type of donation. Current law also prohibits changing the abortion procedure to get more donatable tissue, and it appears that was being done or talked about as well.
You might ask the same people why we bury deceased adults, when we could instead be selling their organs for profit and dumping the rest in a compost pile or feeding it to farm animals. I don't think you would like the answers you'd get, however.
MMMmmm, Solyent Green....
Let the Progressives openly back selling aborted baby parts- that's a winning argument for sure ;)
Is Ebay-by.com available???
My hope in this is that it will lead to a new shift that will stop abortion in most cases. However the last thing this country needs is Planned Parenthood shut down.
brickboy240
08-05-15, 23:24
You know...that IS something to think about.
Shutting down Planned Parenthood means doubling the minority/poor/govt. dependent population in America. Couple that with the huge influx of illegals they are trying to make US citizens and the voter ID laws being overturned and you might never see a conservative ever get elected to national office ever again.
Be careful what you wish for...it could bite us in the ass, if we are not careful.
You know...that IS something to think about.
Shutting down Planned Parenthood means doubling the minority/poor/govt. dependent population in America. Couple that with the huge influx of illegals they are trying to make US citizens and the voter ID laws being overturned and you might never see a conservative ever get elected to national office ever again.
Be careful what you wish for...it could bite us in the ass, if we are not careful.
Some other abortion provider would step-in or be created to fill the void. The free market has a way of taking care of these supply-demand imbalances.
Some other abortion provider would step-in or be created to fill the void. The free market has a way of taking care of these supply-demand imbalances.
While true, it would still be one more thing that Dems could use to hammer Republicans over. Give Hillary the chance to campaign on abortion rights and Benghazi will be no more significant than Whitewater.
Planned Parenthood is nothing about "planning" just like the Affordable Care Act is nothing about giving you a cheaper trip to the doctor!
The left loves to give deceiving names to their entities...this is nothing new.
Think about it like calling welfare "planned success."
Obviously it has NOTHING to do with planning for success, it just bails you out every time you fail. So in a sense "planned parenthood" is accurate, every time somebody screws it up and ends up potentially having an "unplanned family" they are there to bail you out.
Of course along the same lines "welfare assistance" isn't really "assistance" or truly concerned about the "welfare" of those in question. Very few people "get off" welfare and move on to anything better.
If there was a program that actually HELPED people who wanted to improve their situation get training, education, coaching and temporary financial help so they don't become homeless most of us probably wouldn't feel too terrible about our tax dollars actually helping people who are genuinely trying. If there was even a 40% success rate that would translate to a LOT of people with basic jobs and the ability to support themselves. This would mean less people tempted to engage in criminal activity and victimizing society.
Sadly we don't have any true welfare assistance programs like that and nothing like a 40% success rate. Planned parenthood fails in very similar ways.
The only thing I've seen them do that actually matters is sometimes have "free condom" programs. Other than that they simply seem to provide low cost abortions for those too lazy to go get the free condoms.
Outlander Systems
08-06-15, 06:40
Wait a minute.
Shouldn't Obamacare cover these procedures anyway?
Averageman
08-06-15, 06:42
Wait a minute.
Shouldn't Obamacare cover these procedures anyway?
I've heard that, the problem with that is that not many places outside of P.P. are willing to provide abortions for a number of reasons and the cost would sky rocket.
I would like to see proof/evidence of this being a hoax. Can any of the posters who claimed this provide factual evidence please? I'm not finding anything...
Thanks.
I'm going to quote this in case they didn't see it cause I'd be interested in this info as well.
Hate claims with nothing to back it up. Then it usually goes to name calling.
I guess when a society goes depraved you get these residual issues to deal with. Legislation legalizing infanticide up to, say age 10 would help a lot.
Not to mention the boost to the spare parts industry....
Outlander Systems
08-06-15, 10:47
I'm going to quote this in case they didn't see it cause I'd be interested in this info as well.
Hate claims with nothing to back it up. Then it usually goes to name calling.
The hoax claims are residuals leftover from when the videos were released as short segments, and were, "taken out of context."
Since, the videos, as well as the transcripts, have been released in their entirety.
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