Colt 6920 vs. S&W M&P for duty use

[Sgt. Moonracer]

My boss is planning to buy some AR's for either cruiser carry, or perhaps individual issue to select officers. His budget will currently purchase 4 Colt 6920's, or 6 S&W M&P15's.

We currently have 24 sworn officers, and usually 3-4 uniformed patrols covering about 20 square miles at any given time.

Now, understanding that we currently have no provision for individual officer carry of personally owned weapons, and we only have available three Colt AR15A2 HBARS with 20" barrels, all located in the shift supervisor's vehicle, what is your opinion as to what he should purchase?

I'm a big fan of the Colt's, but I'm not so sure that having 4 Colts versus 6 S&W's is a win... thoughts?

[PRGGodfather]

The Colts SHOULD be ready and reliable out of the box: As per the TDP, MP'd & properly staked BCG, staked castle nut, black extractor insert, chrome barrels, 1/7 twist, etc.

The S&W's are a very good value, but those features as listed above would need to be confirmed before being deployed -- for reliablility and dependability. Having more guns will not work, unless they are confirmed as dependable.

I say the Colts SHOULD be ready, because I have run into TWO Colt A1's with improperly staked BCG's, and the screws were not torqued properly. How that happened I cannot tell you (probably DRMO guns, or someone pulled the old switcheroo), but Colts are usually VERY well put together.

I have two cop friends with VERY reliable MP15T's (mid-lengths with Troy handguards and BUIS) -- another excellent value -- both with some really TIGHT accuracy.

We restaked the carrier keys on both S&W BCG's, since the staking was the straight line fashion. We also staked the castle nuts on both rifles, and installed Crane O-ring packages. They were perfectly reliable (1,000+ rounds each) before, but now, there is even more peace of mind.

If you have a MOACKS and center punch, virtually anyone can bring the S&W's up to Colt speed -- as IMHO, I PREFER to have more rifles in patrol -- provided reliability is not sacrificed -- and I DO understand the nature of the question.

Access to a competent gunsmith or armorer helps to abate some of the real world budgetary concerns -- but the competency must be verified.

Check out the chart Rob S. made about the various manufacturers and carbine features -- it should help (and not be too confusing) here:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642&highlight=chart


Be safe, and shoot straight!
Alan

[Paladin4415]

Go with the Colt's and hope the boss can budget more rifles next year.

[AJNAC4FL]

My department initiated a pilot program with 30 S&W M&P15 rifles last year. We are hoping to eventually purchase 300. I was very fortunate to be trained (40 hr course with over a thousand rounds fired, taught by a S&W trained instructor)as a patrol rifle operator and issued one. I've put over 3,000 rounds through my M&P15 with no problems.

Has your boss budgeted money for training as well? If not, it might be a good idea to buy 3 or 4 M&P15's and use the money he would have spent on 2 more rifles to send an officer to a certified patrol rifle operator instructor course. That officer could then train others in your agency.

[BobM]

I'd get the S&Ws to be able to get the extra 2 guns. Also, delivery time will most likely be a lot better w/ S&W, unless you deal with a vendor who has the Colts in stock. My dept. bought an M&P15A earlier this year, and I bought one for myself also (my second M&P15A-the first one I bought a couple of years ago). The BCG was well staked, as was the stock nut. We've got 4 or 5 other S&W M&P15s also and haven't had any problems with any of them.

[RogerinTPA]

Go with the Colts. This may sound tacky, but...have bake sales, BBQ's, car washes or fund raising, tickets to a LEO Ball, dinners/events or hit up the fortune 500 companies in your area for donations, ask Colt for a deep discount or a donation for the rifles, hit up Homeland Security with a compelling letter from the Chief and Mayor for $ to increase your funds to buy more Colts, training and ammo.

[red2sniper]

Sgt.
our department went with the le6920, for your dept. the price is better than you think if you havent checked into it. I just got bids for dept. guns and they came in around 939.00 the s&w's were about 795. The tactic I used was to hit them up for more, when they said they had no more money, I asked that they allow officers to purchase their own. It worked and now 15 of our officers have bought their own! In the non-free state of Kalifornia!:D

[AJNAC4FL]

Don't forget the training. Anyone can mount an AR-15 in their cruiser. Who will stand behind you and what will the jury think? He had a Colt or a S&W? No. Did he/she know how and when to deploy it and what was the outcome. You will not rise to the occasion, you will sink to the level of your training. From the People's Republic of Massachusetts.

[Hat Creek]

My boss is planning to buy some AR's for either cruiser carry, or perhaps individual issue to select officers. His budget will currently purchase 4 Colt 6920's, or 6 S&W M&P15's.

See if you can get a reliable source in Iowa who can find out about the IA HP experience with S&W. With some details, it may help you make a more informed decision.

[Oscar 319]

If these are department purchases, I would highly recommend looking into the 14.5" Colt 6921's. They are much handier carbines for Law Enforcement use, in my opinion.

As stated above, department/agency pricing will be much better. Also, no NFA issues will apply if they are purchased by your department.

Your department head or armorer should be able to get a reasonable bid on a bulk buy of carbines and Colt armorer certification for the new weapons.

Also, did your department try to obtain a grant to fund equipping your officers with "patrol rifles"? Smaller agencies are generally more successful in obtaining grants, at least out this way they are.

As for your original question, 6 M&P15's are hell of a lot better than no AR's. At least they are not looking at Bushwhacker's.

In regards to not being able to carry personally owned weapons; You may want to look at other agencies policies on Patrol Rifles as well as "personally owned, department approved" weapons. Write a proposal using recent events as examples (Columbine, Trolley Square, VA Tech, etc) with a "not if, but WHEN" theme. Do what it takes to have access to these tools, either at the departments expense or your own.

[Beat Trash]

Our Department started a Patrol Rifle program in 2005, with 35 Bushmasters.

The next purchase was for about 20 of the S&W M&P rifles. The S&W's have been trouble free so far, with about 2k rounds through each so far. ( the S&W's were used for qualifications this year)

I would go for the S&W's only to get the extra two guns in the field. Ensure each gun is checked over prior to sending them out int he field. Check the staking, ect. Ten minutes searching this site, you'll know what to look for.

My personally owned guns are Colt 6920's. If the funds were available, I'd recommend to you to go with the Colt's, but I'd rather have more guns in the field, so long as they were serviceable.

As others have said, you're Department will have to develop a training program, ok'ed by your state, and run everyone through a transition and qualification course.

Not to put a damper on your Departments purchase, but don't forget to factor in the cost of training ammo and duty ammo...

As to getting the 14.5" or select fire guns, I wouldn't. While your Department can BUY them with the appropriate paperwork, your Department is limited as to selling/disposing them. I believe it's a limit of three guns per year, sold to the factory, or a qualified, Department. I was told the going rate for a used HK MP5, from Department to Department is around $175.00. I can not verify this though.

The extra 1.5" isn't that big of a deal, or at least it isn't for our officers. I really don't see a need for full auto in a patrol rifle. It's all about rounds on target.