View Full Version : My first AR
So my buddy and I went to the gun range 3 weeks ago and we rented a carbine. Neither one of us own any real guns but now we both plan to get one. I have been researching AR's for the past two weeks and I think I'm going to purchase a Stag Arms upper and lower, a magpul PRS stock, as well as some random accessories. I plan on mainly using this gun for the range and maybe some hunting. I've seen all the topics about hunting decent size game with the .223 round but I've been shooting for about 10 years and was on a rifle team for 4 years (I'm 22) so I'm a pretty good shot. Since I'm so new any advice would be appreciated.
Also, could someone please explain to me the difference between M4, Carbine, and AR 15 because I have seen all these terms used in conjunction and separately.
Read this first: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642&highlight=chart
Stag is okay, but you can do better for just a bit more. A PRS stock seems a bit out of place, but if you're using it for hunting I guess it makes some sense.
Carbine refers to a short rifle, or more specifically a shorter gas system usually found on AR15s 14.5" or shorter.
Thanks, I thought it had something to do with the profile of the gun but I wanted to be sure.
Yeah I wanted to get something a little bit better but I'm kind of on a budget right now and I just cant beat the prices that stagarms offers. The upper and lower come out to only $660. Lol, the PRS........kind of for hunting but mostly for looks.
Failure2Stop
07-24-08, 06:10
I would recommend against a PRS on a carbine, or really against it on anything but a bench gun. It's a great stock, but for a specific niche, at a niche price. If you take the $$ from the stock and apply it to the upper you will have a greater return in quality. If you are not happy with whatever stock option you go with you will have time to research, try-out, and save up for the optimum solution to your needs.
my .02
Yeah I wanted to get something a little bit better but I'm kind of on a budget right now and I just cant beat the prices that stagarms offers. The upper and lower come out to only $660. Lol, the PRS........kind of for hunting but mostly for looks.
No offense intended here, but this statement indicates to me that your head is way in the wrong place.
You're going to buy an upper and lower for $660 (just be sure that includes the bolt carrier group, it often doesn't, where are you getting these prices from?), and then go shell out $250 on a stock "for looks"?
You are, right now, at a fork in the road. You have a choice between deciding that you're going to buy the best quality products for your limited funds, or you can do what 90% of the AR-buying public does and buy a cheap carbine and then spend an equal amount of money adding useless appendages to it that are of little to no use to that shooter.
I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but this site is definitely dedicated to the 10% (damn, I oughta get one of those biker 1% patches and change it to say "10%") that don't give a damn what the rifle looks like as long as it works, and most here will skip fancy looking stocks to get a good quality basic carbine and the ammo to learn to run it properly.
If you decide that you're a 10%er, educate yourself before buying. There are a lot of guys on this site that have come here after buying a lesser carbine and, once educated, have felt a bit of buyer's remorse with their purchase. You're here early, so you have a chance to skip that phase.
Or, you can get a cheap gun that looks cool, double the cost of it with more "looks cool" parts bolted to it, and impress your buddies at the local plinking range.
Great points so far - you've come to the right place for them. I think you need to identify the specific purpose of your rifle - really think how you will use it. If you just want a carbine for plinking and range fun, then look into a Smith and Wesson M&P15, or better yet - have someone like Jon Kruger at Anvil or Grant, (G&R Tactical) put together a reliable, affordable rifle for paper punching. It will be something that should you decide to go to the next level, you'll have a great place to begin. If you have a desire to hunt, or go for long range target shooting, there are a variety of uppers, lowers, stocks and triggers that will bewilder you. Look into White Oak Precision to give you some ideas. Truthfully though - my out of the box Colt National Match was one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned. No fancy barrels, tubes, PRS, triggers, add-ons - nada. It really was a stunning rifle....
In short - Define Purpose. Define Budget. Buy The Best You Can Afford. Do Your Homework.
Good luck and welcome to M4C.... :cool:
In short - Define Purpose. Define Budget. Buy The Best You Can Afford for your stated purpose. Do Your Homework.
I fixed it a bit.
So my buddy and I went to the gun range 3 weeks ago and we rented a carbine. Neither one of us own any real guns but now we both plan to get one. I have been researching AR's for the past two weeks and I think I'm going to purchase a Stag Arms upper and lower, a magpul PRS stock, as well as some random accessories. I plan on mainly using this gun for the range and maybe some hunting. I've seen all the topics about hunting decent size game with the .223 round but I've been shooting for about 10 years and was on a rifle team for 4 years (I'm 22) so I'm a pretty good shoot. Since I'm so new any advice would be appreciated.
Also, could someone please explain to me the difference between M4, Carbine, and AR 15 because I have seen all these terms used in conjunction and separately.
You did fine buying Stag, excellent product. I used their upper and lower on this build. Along with a WOA barrel and a PRI - MSTN Quiet Control Brake / Compensator and a MagPul PRS stock and MIAD grip. Also added a LaRue 12 inch rail and low profile gas block. CMC match trigger, with a Harris BR swivel bi-pod with YHM bi-pod attachment adaptor.
http://photos.imageevent.com/10mmgary/guns/websize/DSC02268.JPG
You did fine buying Stag, excellent product. I used their upper and lower on this build. Along with a WOA barrel and a PRI - MSTN Quiet Control Brake / Compensator and a MagPul PRS stock and MIAD grip. Also added a LaRue 12 inch rail and low profile gas block. CMC match trigger, with a Harris BR swivel bi-pod with YHM bi-pod attachment adaptor.
http://photos.imageevent.com/10mmgary/guns/websize/DSC02268.JPG
Hey, are you going to put a BUIS on that?
Hey, are you going to put a BUIS on that?
Nope, if the optic fails I will hold off the attacking water jugs/expired can goods/grass rats/paper targets and metal plates as best I can with my sidearm:D. Seriously though I do have a set of BUIS but they stay in the shooting box. That rifle is my bench gun and is most often shot at 135 yards minimum. If that optic fails I have another already zeroed and in a LaRue mount waiting.
I do have other ARs that are suited for fighting guns, but with my age and combat experience level<(ie; NONE) I'll be sticking to my handguns lever actions and shotguns for protection. The lovely wife and I are going to take a carbine class or two this fall.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not going to lie, right now I am in that 90%, I want my rifle to perform but I'm also concerned about aesthetics. I will get into it more later, 2 or 3 years down the road after I graduate from college and have some more disposable income. I will most likely only have the opportunity to shot it once or twice a month anyway, if that. I really just want to shot a few rounds down range every so often. I got the prices from stagarms.com. The upper is 465 and the lower is 195 with the kit installed minus without a butt stock.
10MMGary, that rifle is nice, that’s kind of what I'm going for.
toddackerman
07-25-08, 18:01
So my buddy and I went to the gun range 3 weeks ago and we rented a carbine. Neither one of us own any real guns but now we both plan to get one. I have been researching AR's for the past two weeks and I think I'm going to purchase a Stag Arms upper and lower, a magpul PRS stock, as well as some random accessories. I plan on mainly using this gun for the range and maybe some hunting. I've seen all the topics about hunting decent size game with the .223 round but I've been shooting for about 10 years and was on a rifle team for 4 years (I'm 22) so I'm a pretty good shot. Since I'm so new any advice would be appreciated.
Also, could someone please explain to me the difference between M4, Carbine, and AR 15 because I have seen all these terms used in conjunction and separately.
As far as hunting goes...I am not a fan of the .223 unless it is for small game. For deer or larger I am an advocate of .30 caliber.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not going to lie, right now I am in that 90%, I want my rifle to perform but I'm also concerned about aesthetics. I will get into it more later, 2 or 3 years down the road after I graduate from college and have some more disposable income. I will most likely only have the opportunity to shot it once or twice a month anyway, if that. I really just want to shot a few rounds down range every so often. I got the prices from stagarms.com. The upper is 465 and the lower is 195 with the kit installed minus without a butt stock.
10MMGary, that rifle is nice, that’s kind of what I'm going for.
Does $465 include the BCG (bolt and carrier), charging handle, and heat shields? That price sounds a bit too low. Realistically you're looking around $600-650 for an upper setup alone unless you go with a lower tier manufacturer (Stag, Bushmaster, RRA, etc.).
BCM just released a new batch of uppers, I HIGHLY suggest you give them a look. Plus they have 16" mid-lengths coming in 6-10 weeks.
My suggestion is as follows:
BCM 16" mid-length upper
BCM BCG
Standard charging handle
Double heat shields
BUIS (your choice, LaRue, LMT, Troy)
and a lower with LPK
The difference between a $800 AR and a $1000 AR is huge. From there on the margin thins (you'll find Colt, LMT, Noveske, even Sabre to fall in this range).
DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Good luck!
P.S. - do it right the first time and you won't find yourself wasting time and money down the road. The biggest thing to determine right now is your length and barrel profile. Stop by your local firearms store/range and give a few common sizes a try.
manny,
You made a post soliciting advice but don't want to seem to accept the advice of those in the know. For the price of a Stag Arms (according to you) and then a Magpul PRS stock you could probably pick up a Charles Daly carbine complete which by all accounts is getting pretty good reviews. Buying a rifle, carbine or whatever should be an informed decision (especially since you admit not having alot of disposable income or knowledge of firearms) and you should really think about what you are buying. If you are concerned about aesthetics you could buy an airsoft gun because it looks cool. If you are concerned about it performance which you should be then read carefully about what we have to say.
The rifle or carbine that you buy now for punching paper may just be the same one that you need if the SHTF. Its' reliability and performance should be more important than anything else.
AllAmerican
07-26-08, 09:58
manny,
You made a post soliciting advice but don't want to seem to accept the advice of those in the know. For the price of a Stag Arms (according to you) and then a Magpul PRS stock you could probably pick up a Charles Daly carbine complete which by all accounts is getting pretty good reviews. Buying a rifle, carbine or whatever should be an informed decision (especially since you admit not having alot of disposable income or knowledge of firearms) and you should really think about what you are buying. If you are concerned about aesthetics you could buy an airsoft gun because it looks cool. If you are concerned about it performance which you should be then read carefully about what we have to say.
The rifle or carbine that you buy now for punching paper may just be the same one that you need if the SHTF. Its' reliability and performance should be more important than anything else.
+1 I would not put a lot of faith in being able to get something better down the road in 2-3 years..... Times may be changing. Especially for the firearms market. The weapon you buy now may be the one you are stuck with for a while, so I would think of buying support parts, and ammo and learning how to use the weapon properly!!!
IMO
Good luck!
manny,
You made a post soliciting advice but don't want to seem to accept the advice of those in the know. For the price of a Stag Arms (according to you) and then a Magpul PRS stock you could probably pick up a Charles Daly carbine complete which by all accounts is getting pretty good reviews. Buying a rifle, carbine or whatever should be an informed decision (especially since you admit not having alot of disposable income or knowledge of firearms) and you should really think about what you are buying. If you are concerned about aesthetics you could buy an airsoft gun because it looks cool. If you are concerned about it performance which you should be then read carefully about what we have to say.
The rifle or carbine that you buy now for punching paper may just be the same one that you need if the SHTF. Its' reliability and performance should be more important than anything else.
I clearly posted I got the prices from STAGARMS.COM http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=14_24
I've read a lot of the posts here and the people here are very knowledgeable and I want advice, that’s why I'm here. But it seems as though I may be in the wrong if I'm not going to buy the top of the line equipment and eat, sleep and breathe carbines. From the information I have gathered here and everywhere else even though stag is not the best it's not the worst either. What is up with all the bias? If it's not your brand it’s going to jam every shot and explode.
"Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!"
"I have noticed quite a few threads in which Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag, etc. owners are starting to ask what they should do to their rifle to try to "move it to the left" on the chart. Some are even asking if they need to scrap their rifle entirely and buy a new one from the left side of the chart. The answer is "probably not"."
I'm going to buy a stag upper and lower because they have a low price. From my research, it will suit my purpose fine, shooting 50 rounds down range once a month. I'll probably go hunting but no time soon. I want my gun to look nice because thats all I'm going to be doing with it most of the time, looking at it. I'm here so most of the nice people can help me with some general questions I have about up keep and other things I can't readily find online.
FrankRochester
07-26-08, 20:16
You get what you pay for.....
that thread you're quoting from is mine, and it's meant for people that bought without knowing better.
I still don't understand why you'd buy a sub-standard carbine and then proceed to "upgrade" it with parts you aren't going to really need anyway, just for looks.
It's like those piece of crap cars you see in the ghetto with $2k worth of rims and tires. It just makes no sense.
Nobody here cares what you buy, they're just trying to help you make an informed decision. Unfortunately, you seem to fall into the 75% of people that post "questions" on the internet; you already had your mind made up before you posted and you're not looking for advice, you're looking for validation and getting kind of snippy when you don't get it.
As for this $660 price you keep mentioning, I'm unclear on where you're finding this. here's what I get
Model 5H upper $525 (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=246)
Tactical Lower Half $290 (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=18_32&products_id=235)
Where I come from that's $815 not $660.
And, sometimes you get less............:(
I'm going to buy a stag upper and lower because they have a low price. From my research, it will suit my purpose fine, shooting 50 rounds down range once a month. I'll probably go hunting but no time soon. I want my gun to look nice because thats all I'm going to be doing with it most of the time, looking at it.
The Stag will suit you well. As you learn and gain more experience, the advice here is very good. Use it when you're ready. In the mean time, get your Stag, shoot it and have fun.
Seriously, welcome to the sport. These folks here (including myself) are dead serious about our weapons and intend to stake our lives on them. Your honesty about the carbine's intended purpose tells me the Stag will be fine for you.
Rob-reread your signature line, go in the kitchen, beat your head against the refrigerator-you'll feel better:D
that thread you're quoting from is mine, and it's meant for people that bought without knowing better.
I still don't understand why you'd buy a sub-standard carbine and then proceed to "upgrade" it with parts you aren't going to really need anyway, just for looks.
It's like those piece of crap cars you see in the ghetto with $2k worth of rims and tires. It just makes no sense.
Nobody here cares what you buy, they're just trying to help you make an informed decision. Unfortunately, you seem to fall into the 75% of people that post "questions" on the internet; you already had your mind made up before you posted and you're not looking for advice, you're looking for validation and getting kind of snippy when you don't get it.
As for this $660 price you keep mentioning, I'm unclear on where you're finding this. here's what I get
Model 5H upper $525 (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=246)
Tactical Lower Half $290 (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=18_32&products_id=235)
Where I come from that's $815 not $660.
That $525 is for the 6.8mm, the 5.56 is $465. Also, they sell the lower with no butt stock http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=18_32 for $195. 465+195 = 660
But you're right I was just looking for validation :(
The Stag will suit you well. As you learn and gain more experience, the advice here is very good. Use it when you're ready. In the mean time, get your Stag, shoot it and have fun.
Seriously, welcome to the sport. These folks here (including myself) are dead serious about our weapons and intend to stake our lives on them. Your honesty about the carbine's intended purpose tells me the Stag will be fine for you.
lol, thanks Oscar, thats all I was saying, I'm not really serious yet but I will need some help with future questions that I have.
lol, thanks Oscar, thats all I was saying, I'm not really serious yet but I will need some help with future questions that I have.
Exactly. Buy the Stag, enjoy it. If and when you have problems, or you want to upgrade, you will find the answers here.
manny,
1. I said according to you because I don't own Stag Arms stuff, nor do I visit their website.
2. Once again you asked for opinions and advice, some of us gave you that and you didn't like it so now you want to continue to defend your position.
3. I have no bias, but if I spent xxx amount of dollars on something it should work out of the box and I shouldn't have to stake the bolt carrier keys, castle nut, ensure that there is a proper extractor spring and insert. etc... ad nauseum. My experience and use of firearms is much different than yours and since I have to trust my life to them my expectations are different.
4. If your only intention is to shoot 50 rounds per month and look at your gun then by all means do so no one here will stop you. What we are trying to do is educate you about your purchase, but since you apparently had already made a decision before asking. I have to wonder why did you bother to ask?
I clearly posted I got the prices from STAGARMS.COM http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=14_24
I've read a lot of the posts here and the people here are very knowledgeable and I want advice, that’s why I'm here. But it seems as though I may be in the wrong if I'm not going to buy the top of the line equipment and eat, sleep and breathe carbines. From the information I have gathered here and everywhere else even though stag is not the best it's not the worst either. What is up with all the bias? If it's not your brand it’s going to jam every shot and explode.
"Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!"
"I have noticed quite a few threads in which Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag, etc. owners are starting to ask what they should do to their rifle to try to "move it to the left" on the chart. Some are even asking if they need to scrap their rifle entirely and buy a new one from the left side of the chart. The answer is "probably not"."
I'm going to buy a stag upper and lower because they have a low price. From my research, it will suit my purpose fine, shooting 50 rounds down range once a month. I'll probably go hunting but no time soon. I want my gun to look nice because thats all I'm going to be doing with it most of the time, looking at it. I'm here so most of the nice people can help me with some general questions I have about up keep and other things I can't readily find online.
That $525 is for the 6.8mm, the 5.56 is $465. Also, they sell the lower with no butt stock http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=18_32 for $195. 465+195 = 660
But you're right I was just looking for validation :(
OK, so you're looking at the one with no sights (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=244) for $465.
but, $465 for an upper, $195 for a lower, and $250 for a completely ridiculous stock for a carbine is still $910. For just a few dollars more you could build a better gun (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/25301.html).
rob,
We are wasting time on on this matter. I believe as stated that he had already made up his mind and was seeking some type of comfort. It's obvious from his posts that he is about as serious as the "M900 Chinese Knock-off" flashlight guy.
OK, so you're looking at the one with no sights (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=244) for $465.
but, $465 for an upper, $195 for a lower, and $250 for a completely ridiculous stock for a carbine is still $910. For just a few dollars more you could build a better gun (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/25301.html).
manny,
1. I said according to you because I don't own Stag Arms stuff, nor do I visit their website.
2. Once again you asked for opinions and advice, some of us gave you that and you didn't like it so now you want to continue to defend your position.
3. I have no bias, but if I spent xxx amount of dollars on something it should work out of the box and I shouldn't have to stake the bolt carrier keys, castle nut, ensure that there is a proper extractor spring and insert. etc... ad nauseum. My experience and use of firearms is much different than yours and since I have to trust my life to them my expectations are different.
4. If your only intention is to shoot 50 rounds per month and look at your gun then by all means do so no one here will stop you. What we are trying to do is educate you about your purchase, but since you apparently had already made a decision before asking. I have to wonder why did you bother to ask?
And that's a wrap - nicely said. There's nothing more to add to this manny except: you can do better. I think once you get into the meat and potatoes of your purchase, you look back on this thread - or maybe not.
OK, so you're looking at the one with no sights (http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=244) for $465.
but, $465 for an upper, $195 for a lower, and $250 for a completely ridiculous stock for a carbine is still $910. For just a few dollars more you could build a better gun (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/25301.html).
Yeah I'm going to buy a scope so I wont need the irons, but I think I'm going to get a 20" instead of the 16".
lol, Iraqgunz I'm so sorry, as you stated we have two different purposes for owning the same gun. You stake your life on yours and I just need mine to sit in the corner and look nice until I decide to go shoot it.
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