View Full Version : Glock 17, Freedom Munitions ammo, several FTF's in less than 400 rounds
nightchief
08-13-15, 15:11
I have made three range trips in the last month and while shooting my G17, gen 4, I have had approximately 10 FTF's in approx 400 rds fired. Using new Freedom Munitions 115 gr 9mm. Ammo was purchased in a large lot in April of 2015.
G17 has a Pyramid trigger, with 4.5 lb spring and OEM striker. All of the FTF's had what appeared to be solid primer strikes. 8 of the 10 rounds fired on the 2nd try and 2 were duds.
Today, I fired a 50 AE and 50 S&B 9mm...no issues. Rate of fire was mixed. Some rhythm drills, some slowly fired shots for accuracy, etc.
Before shooting this lot of FM 9mm, I had maybe one FTF in 1000ish rounds, using a mix of AE, Federal, Magtech, PMC, Blazer and Detroit Bullet works reloads...
Looking for some insight...
Anyone had FTF issues with either:
*Freedom Munitions 9mm, or
*G17 w/ Pyramid trigger
Thanks,
NC
I had a couple of hard primers in a batch of their RTP 115gr RN, in or around Dec 2014. Gun was a stock gen4 G19. Notes indicate that at least one fired on the second strike. Several more had bullets seated to visibly different depths, which went unshot. This was in a batch of 7-10k total as I recall, both RTP and their regularly packaged reman.
platoonDaddy
08-13-15, 17:02
Last month three of us attending a Pat Goodale handgun class, firing just shy of 3K 115gr REMAN ammo without any issues. Ammo was purchased from them in June of this year.
It seems as though there are a disproportionate number of bad experiences with Freedom Munitions ammo. Enough so that I declined a really good deal on 1k of their 7.62.
I note that you said this ammunition is from April 2015. In March 2015 I attended an OP SEC training/Bruce Gray pistol class where two shooters had three squibs between them with freedom arms 9 mm ammunition. The two shooters did not know each other, and had purchased their ammunition separately, from different lots, specifically for attending the class.
Also in the beginning of 2015 shooting friend of mine had serious issues with freedom 300 black rifle ammunition.
You get what you pay for.
nightchief
08-13-15, 20:16
I note that you said this ammunition is from April 2015. In March 2015 I attended an OP SEC training/Bruce Gray pistol class where two shooters had three squibs between them with freedom arms 9 mm ammunition. The two shooters did not know each other, and had purchased their ammunition separately, from different lots, specifically for attending the class.
Also in the beginning of 2015 shooting friend of mine had serious issues with freedom 300 black rifle ammunition.
You get what you pay for.
No doubt about that! Going forward, will pay the extra $.02 to $.05 per round for more reliable ammo...
I had some concern about the fire control in G17, but this seems to be an ammo issue, not a firearm issue
NC
No doubt about that! Going forward, will pay the extra $.02 to $.05 per round for more reliable ammo...
I had some concern about the fire control in G17, but this seems to be an ammo issue, not a firearm issue
NC
I have shot quite a bit and have not had any issues. 1k more scheduled to arrive tomorrow, just in time for the weekend.
I purchased new 9mm 115g from them earlier this year for a tmac class. I managed to tough it out for about 200 rounds and had so much trouble I had to shelve the G34 and went with the G41 for the remainder of the course. My G34 also eats everything else I feed it and had same results in my G19. Overall not impressed and wasn't worth the few extra bucks I saved. I have several hundred rounds left and haven't touched it since. I've reached out to them via my professional email account and haven't heard back. The rounds all seemed under powered which caused ejection problems.
No issues with "new" FM here. I have 9mm, .40, .223 and .300. Recently ran 5 mags of 115 gr. through a 9mm conversion barrel in my Glock (Storm Lake).
That G22 also has a 3.5# connector, Ghost upgrade springs and stock (17#?) recoil damper spring on a SS guide rod. I'd read after placing my order that there were some issues with the 22 slide being heavier than the 17 and not cycling lighter ammo properly. I haven't seen it in nearly 100 rounds, but that does not conclude anything for me. I'll watch it, but for now, it's a fun gun to shoot!
Possibilities:
Maybe they're using "hard" primers? Some tend to be harder than others. I bought 10,000 Tula primers which have a reputation for being harder than domestic primers. 9998 went boom, two FTF. All my pistols, revos have standard mainsprings.
If they're remanufactured maybe they're not seating the primers fully. This leaves a cushion on the first strike, typically they fire on the second.
The varying OAL is unsettling.
I had two squibs from two separate lots, after shooting thousands of rounds without issue. No longer use their products as I have lost faith in them as a company. Not impressed in how they handled my issues.
brickboy240
08-14-15, 10:54
I live near their Houston store and have run tons of their ammo through my Glocks and ARs and not one problem at all.
I also recently bought a 500rd case of their 38Spl to run through my Marlin 357 lever gun and again...half way through the case and no problems at all.
YMMV...
Freedom Munitions had a non-descript recall on a few lots of 9mm from March, but I think it was all from their reman, not new. This was a very small recall and unlikely to be your problem but check for lots;
18605-17996-47-60
19691-18219-89-117
18605-18518-47-60
I think this is pretty much settled.
However, based on how the glock fcg works, once the rear of the trigger bar has been cammed down out of engagement with the striker, it cannot move back up and drag on said striker while it moves forward unless you release the trigger fast enough to make it happen.
Therefore, the only way for the trigger bar to cause misfires would be for it to be shorter than spec, and release the striker from a closer position to the cartridge than a stock one, which would produce a lighter strike.
If so, it would do this every time, not occasionally. You would notice the lighter strikes as soon as it was installed.
This is provided your new trigger did not use the factory bar.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
So far I've used about 7k rounds of their new and remanufactured 115g 9mm through a shield, g19, and vp9. I guess I've been lucky since I haven't had any problems at all. About 2200 rounds were used in classes (Proctor performance pistol and Pannone covert carry). I was using geco in a previous local class (insight training) and had hard primers so that's when I switched to freedom. I have a case of their hush 147g and hope I don't have these issues
I did have some feeding issues with their 100g 380 ammo in a Sig p232 but read that 100g can cause issues in general.
nightchief
08-14-15, 13:00
I had some concern I was having an issue with my G17's striker, but am now convinced it is the ammo.
I have had decent result with two previous FM lots I purchased (9mm & .223), but this most recent lot has soured me on using their ammo.
JimmyB62, thanks for the recall info, I will check to see if there is anything out on the 9mm I have left.
Thanks to all for the info...
NC
USMC_Anglico
08-14-15, 13:06
My father uses it a lot, also runs into problems with FM a bunch too.....FTF's and occasional bullet seating. So now he spends the time to inspect rounds.....sorta defeats the purpose.
I use blazer brass/AL FMJ for training and have put many thousands of rounds out over several years with not one problem.
Juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze for FM...
Flankenstein
08-14-15, 13:12
I had two squibs from two separate lots, after shooting thousands of rounds without issue. No longer use their products as I have lost faith in them as a company. Not impressed in how they handled my issues.
Yikes, that's no good.
Flankenstein
08-14-15, 13:13
Freedom Munitions had a non-descript recall on a few lots of 9mm from March, but I think it was all from their reman, not new. This was a very small recall and unlikely to be your problem but check for lots;
18605-17996-47-60
19691-18219-89-117
18605-18518-47-60
What was the reason for the "non-descript" recall?
My father uses it a lot, also runs into problems with FM a bunch too.....FTF's and occasional bullet seating. So now he spends the time to inspect rounds.....sorta defeats the purpose.
I use blazer brass/AL FMJ for training and have put many thousands of rounds out over several years with not one problem.
Juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze for FM...
ironically the same reason I WON'T use blazer brass. Three squib loads from two boxes of the same lot in 45 acp two years ago.
What was the reason for the "non-descript" recall?
Nondescript was a poor word choice. They didn't give a reason, just said there was an "issue" and subsequent recall.
I don't know how anyone who shoots a lot doesn't reload their own.
I trust myself and my ammo.
I would agree with that, and do reload.
However, not so much anymore, for a lack of time.
Plus, I don't know about classes, as I usually don't have free time or free funds, but at most competitions, you lose all brass. Unless you have a cheap or free supply of brass, once you start buying it, it's not so cheap to reload anymore.
So, I guess it depends on what you do.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
My experiences have been generally good, but out of the last case of 115 gr remanufactured ammo I purchased last spring I had one undercharged round at a match. The bullet left the barrel, but the round didn't cycle my Glock 17. At the conclusion of the stage the RO showed me the fired case; it was covered in shoot down one side and had clearly failed to obturate.
My confidence in the brand wasn't completely destroyed, so I'll shoot what I have left, but I'll certainly be more deliberate if I need to clear another malfunction. I'll be sticking with Speer Lawman in the future.
I have shot over 3,000 rounds of their 115gr. 9mm New and never had any problems. Glock 17 and 19 Gen 4.
Is that 4.5lb spring the striker spring?
If so it may be a contributing factor. There's at least one brand that my 17 is reliable with when the stock spring is installed that it won't get through a mag of with the 4.5 in there. If I had a bunch of the stuff I'd try a factory spring.
It sucks to hear about all these people having poor experiences as I've had great experiences all around..
I've ran about 2500 rounds of their ammo in 223 through multiple AR's and about 3000 rounds of 9 both reloads and new 115's through both of my G19's in the past year and a half with no ammo issues at all.
They did ship me 1500 rounds of the wrong ammo about 5 months ago so I called them and it was handled in a matter of minutes over the phone.
I've seen too many issues with their "reman" ammunition. I have no use for it. Squibs, FTF, FTE, poor crimp (bullets were actually being pulled from the brass due to slide velocity slamming into battery)
The only difference between their "new" and "reman" is the brass. Same bullets and powder. To me it's not worth the risk.
I will say that X-Treme Bullets are great (the other side of Freedom) I've loaded over 10,000 of their bullets and ran them in pistols to subguns with outstanding accuracy.
Too bad they can't get a good load going in house.
nightchief
08-20-15, 14:28
Update: I discussed the issue with FM and they requested I return the unused 9mm ammo for a different lot...I will certainly give them credit for the service in this case, as they were quick to respond and are paying for the shipping.
Regarding the striker spring in the G17: I believe it is the 4.5 lb spring. i have never had a FTF malfunction before this rash of them with the FM ammo. After having numerous FTF's during my last range outing, I changed to some AE and Seller-Belot 9mm and no issues through 150 for so rounds. If I encounter another rash of failures with another brand of ammo, I will have to reassess, but for now, I believe the issue is with the ammo and not with the G17's FCG.
NC
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.