View Full Version : I really want a BCM KMR rail but.......
The more I look into the BCM KMR 13" rail the more i want one. Only issue is that I have a 14.5" barrel that came pinned from factory with a Battlecomp 1.5. There are two issues with this which I will explain in detail.
First, if I had a cheap flash hider pinned such as an A2X, I would have no problem trashing it, replacing the barrel nut and pinning another cheap muzzle device. Problem is I have a Battlecomp 1.5 that was pinned from factory. Destroying this to change the rail is a tough pill to swallow :sad:. Is there a gunsmith out there that can drill out the existing pin, replace barrel nut and pin the same muzzle device without trashing it and use the same dimple on the barrel(without having to make another one)?
Second, This upper came with an A2 front sight. Before installing my current Troy 13" rail, I had the sight tower, bayonet lug and sling swivel shaved off. Will this gas block fit inside the BCM KMR rail or do I need to purchase another gas block?
Much help appreciated and if you can recommend a gunsmith that can do this carefully and not take months to complete the job I will really appreciate it.
Thanks
This is exactly why it is recommended to skip the 14.5 uppers unless one is going to use the upper in its NFA configuration. I would imagine the chopped FSB will fit, but I don't know if you would be able to access the pins or not.
My guess is that you'll have a hard time (at best) finding someone who can save and reuse the BC. I would start by calling Adco and Rainier to see if either of them can do it.
PatrioticDisorder
08-16-15, 06:47
This is exactly why it is recommended to skip the 14.5 uppers unless one is going to use the upper in its NFA configuration. I would imagine the chopped FSB will fit, but I don't know if you would be able to access the pins or not.
This, just pay the damn tax stamp for the lower and be done with it, makes much more sense long term so you don't have to screw with unpinning/pinning non sense.
I realize that everyone possesses varying degrees of mechanical aptitude but I find it sad that the mindset that a pinned muzzle device will be destroyed in the removal process, is the norm.
I removed them, with basic hand tools and maintained reusable condition, in 15 minutes.
I say, if you have the tools and a little bit of skill, do it yourself. You'll save money and feel better about the project.
You can probably find someone to remove it but with no guaranty he will be successful. Time is money and it looks like you are willing to throw good money at bad. Sell your upper and buy a new 16" BCM with the KMR already mounted.
Sparky5019
08-16-15, 10:14
The more I look into the BCM KMR 13" rail the more i want one. Only issue is that I have a 14.5" barrel that came pinned from factory with a Battlecomp 1.5. There are two issues with this which I will explain in detail.
First, if I had a cheap flash hider pinned such as an A2X, I would have no problem trashing it, replacing the barrel nut and pinning another cheap muzzle device. Problem is I have a Battlecomp 1.5 that was pinned from factory. Destroying this to change the rail is a tough pill to swallow :sad:. Is there a gunsmith out there that can drill out the existing pin, replace barrel nut and pin the same muzzle device without trashing it and use the same dimple on the barrel(without having to make another one)?
Second, This upper came with an A2 front sight. Before installing my current Troy 13" rail, I had the sight tower, bayonet lug and sling swivel shaved off. Will this gas block fit inside the BCM KMR rail or do I need to purchase another gas block?
Much help appreciated and if you can recommend a gunsmith that can do this carefully and not take months to complete the job I will really appreciate it.
Thanks
Depending on how deep the pin goes, it can be removed without trashing the threads. The threads can always be chased as well. If one takes his time to mill into the weld spot, the pin should be able to be coaxed out hereby saving the brake to be used again. Most gunsmith just mill straight across the brake to get it off as quickly as possible and aren't concerned with saving it. For the record, there are much better brakes out there if you want to replace it.
Eurodriver
08-16-15, 10:49
You can probably find someone to remove it but with no guaranty he will be successful. Time is money and it looks like you are willing to throw good money at bad. Sell your upper and buy a new 16" BCM with the KMR already mounted.
Exactly. Easier to sell the upper.
The biggest question is why are you so desperate to put a KMR on even if it requires all this trouble?
What will the KMR do that your current rail won't? Do you frequently find yourself humping your rifle in the bush and think "Wow, these extra 6 ounces are just killing me"?
Boba Fett v2
08-16-15, 11:53
Buy a whole new upper. Easy peezy lemon squeezy.
Second, This upper came with an A2 front sight. Before installing my current Troy 13" rail, I had the sight tower, bayonet lug and sling swivel shaved off. Will this gas block fit inside the BCM KMR rail or do I need to purchase another gas block?
I have no real input on any other part of your post, but I'm using a KMR with a shaved A2 underneath. So... depending on how much they took off, it'll fit. If you've got a bench grinder or a dremel and some cold blue, you can fit it yourself.
A seasoned gunsmith can handle this for you and save the comp. I just swapped out a DD LITE for the 13" KMR. It was a shallow pin and a spot weld from BCM (factory). This isn't rocket science for someone experienced.
Saving a pinned muzzle device is not difficult at all. If you have access to an end mill, just kiss the weld with a cutter a little smaler than the weld until you see a ring around the pin. Tap on the muzzle device with a small hammer and the pin will walk out enough to grab it and pull out.
Or you can use a big file and do the same thing.
I've removed and reused three BCM A2Xs, I even reused the pins.:cool:
Quiet-Matt
08-16-15, 14:05
Saving a pinned muzzle device is not difficult at all. If you have access to an end mill, just kiss the weld with a cutter a little smaler than the weld until you see a ring around the pin. Tap on the muzzle device with a small hammer and the pin will walk out enough to grab it and pull out.
Or you can use a big file and do the same thing.
I've removed and reused three BCM A2Xs, I even reused the pins.:cool:
I second this advice. Doing the same, I have re-used 4 muzzle devices so far. I used needle files and a shade tree gunsmifs best friend the dremmel tool. ;) When you get frustrated just remember "Its for the children". If it weren't for that extra 1/4" on that barrel, these darn guns would run amuck doing who knows what. I guess that's why we have to have paperwork on the little ones, they're like dangerous exotic pets that could EAT YOU. :eek:
Pin is a factory Noveske. Don't know how shallow or deep those pin jobs are.
I'll post a pic here in a sec.
This, just pay the damn tax stamp for the lower and be done with it, makes much more sense long term so you don't have to screw with unpinning/pinning non sense.
Not an option for me. Not in a free state.
MountainRaven
08-16-15, 15:19
This, just pay the damn tax stamp for the lower and be done with it, makes much more sense long term so you don't have to screw with unpinning/pinning non sense.
Considering that you have to ask permission to leave the state with it once it's registered, it's not worth it IMHO to register a lower receiver unless you're going to be going 12.5" or shorter. 14.5" barrels simply aren't worth the hassle to me.
Considering that you have to ask permission to leave the state with it once it's registered, it's not worth it IMHO to register a lower receiver unless you're going to be going 12.5" or shorter. 14.5" barrels simply aren't worth the hassle to me.
Especially, with pinned muzzle devices.
Buy a whole new upper. Easy peezy lemon squeezy.
My thoughts exactly. Or a new barrel. Personally, I'd buy one of them new fangled BCM BFH ELW uppers with a KMR.
I have a couple of rifles with pinned devices hanging off the end. On one of them I put an APEX Machine 12" rail which clamps to the stock barrel nut very well. The other I kept in a KISS configuration. 16" barrels are way easier if you do not or (in my case) can not get a Tax Stamp.
MountainRaven
08-16-15, 16:32
Especially, with pinned muzzle devices.
I don't mind pinned. I'm not trying new muzzle devices every time someone comes out with a new one, I'm not trying new handguards every six months, and I'm not burning out barrels that often.
titsonritz
08-16-15, 17:02
Buy a whole new upper. Easy peezy lemon squeezy.
This what I was thinking.
Like others have said, I don't feel the need to change rails or muzzle devices often at all, it's just that I really like that KMR rail and would like to give it a try. I don't have any keymod rails.
Anywho, here are two pics. One is of a barrel I just recently had pinned with a Battlecomp(took the pic before they pinned it), showing the pic for reference of the pre-drilled hole. The second pic is of the barrel I would like to have the pin removed and what it looks like.
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Do all you "buy a new upper" people think that everyone has an extra $700+ laying around? Not everyone has that kind of cash sitting around to blow on another upper. Even if he sells his, realistically, how much will he get for it?
Buying a new upper may be the easiest (to some), but it's certainly not the most cost effective.
Do all you "buy a new upper" people think that everyone has an extra $700+ laying around? Not everyone has that kind of cash sitting around to blow on another upper. Even if he sells his, realistically, how much will he get for it?
Buying a new upper may be the easiest (to some), but it's certainly not the most cost effective.
If selling were that easy I'd do it. Selling can sometimes be really annoying and takes a long time.
I really like my barrel and to get another one just like it, I would need to have the gas block installed and then have the new muzzle device pinned on the new barrel. If I buy it as a complete upper, the muzzle device it comes with from factory would have to be unpinned as well.
If selling were that easy I'd do it. Selling can sometimes be really annoying and takes a long time.
I really like my barrel and to get another one just like it, I would need to have the gas block installed and then have the new muzzle device pinned on the new barrel. If I buy it as a complete upper, the muzzle device it comes with from factory would have to be unpinned as well.
Unless you did the smart thing, and got a 16" upper. If you had gotten a 16" upper in the first place, you would be installing your KMR right now. It's awful silly to be going through all of this heartache over ~0.75".
If selling were that easy I'd do it. Selling can sometimes be really annoying and takes a long time.
I really like my barrel and to get another one just like it, I would need to have the gas block installed and then have the new muzzle device pinned on the new barrel. If I buy it as a complete upper, the muzzle device it comes with from factory would have to be unpinned as well.
That's just it. Even if you had the cash for a new upper, selling stuff can be an ass ache too.
It's really not that difficult to unpin. Sure, there might be some that are tougher than others but I think the whole unpinning thing is blown out of proportion here.
Do it yourself or find someone to do it for you.
Unless you did the smart thing, and got a 16" upper. If you had gotten a 16" upper in the first place, you would be installing your KMR right now. It's awful silly to be going through all of this heartache over ~0.75".
But he didn't, so it's water over the dam, really.
Unless you did the smart thing, and got a 16" upper. If you had gotten a 16" upper in the first place, you would be installing your KMR right now. It's awful silly to be going through all of this heartache over ~0.75".
That or just keep the rail I currently have on. My 14.5" barrels aren't going anywhere.:p:p
If I can't find someone to do the job without damaging the Battlecomp I'll just keep the rail I currently have and the pretend the KMR doesn't exist.:lol::lol:
That's just it. Even if you had the cash for a new upper, selling stuff can be an ass ache too.
It's really not that difficult to unpin. Sure, there might be some that are tougher than others but I think the whole unpinning thing is blown out of proportion here.
Do it yourself or find someone to do it for you.
So give the OP your contact information and be done with it. Keep us posted on how it works out.
So give the OP your contact information and be done with it. Keep us posted on how it works out.
If he's local to me, I'd have no problem giving him a hand, or more importantly, showing him how to do it. It's the whole "teach a man to fish" thing.
That or just keep the rail I currently have on. My 14.5" barrels aren't going anywhere.:p:p
If I can't find someone to do the job without damaging the Battlecomp I'll just keep the rail I currently have and the pretend the KMR doesn't exist.:lol::lol:
I guess if the juice is worth the squeeze for you, then enjoy.
Like others have said, I don't feel the need to change rails or muzzle devices often at all, it's just that I really like that KMR rail and would like to give it a try. I don't have any keymod rails.
Anywho, here are two pics. One is of a barrel I just recently had pinned with a Battlecomp(took the pic before they pinned it), showing the pic for reference of the pre-drilled hole. The second pic is of the barrel I would like to have the pin removed and what it looks like.
3462834629
A seasoned gunsmith can handle this for you and save the comp. I just swapped out a DD LITE for the 13" KMR. It was a shallow pin and a spot weld from BCM (factory). This isn't rocket science for someone experienced.
I hope the Noveske is just as easy.
Maybe someone who has removed a factory Noveske pin can stop by and let us know how difficult those are to remove. I have provided pics of the pin on my barrel and what one that had not been pinned yet looks like.
Option 1- Attempt to have the muzzle device removed and realize it may not be saved. I have removed several pinned devices and was able to save only two of them.
Option 2- Remove the barrel assembly, sell it off and then get the new barrel and rail.
Option 3- Deal with what you have, save your money and buy another rail when the option presents itself.
I have no real input on any other part of your post, but I'm using a KMR with a shaved A2 underneath. So... depending on how much they took off, it'll fit. If you've got a bench grinder or a dremel and some cold blue, you can fit it yourself.
My gas block looks similar to this:
34631
Based on your input i should be good to go with that on the KMR.
My gas block looks similar to this:
34631
Based on your input i should be good to go with that on the KMR.
My garage door looks similar to that. The plot thickens.
My gas block looks similar to this:
34631
Based on your input i should be good to go with that on the KMR.
That looks like it'll fit but obviously, it'll still need to be removed.
^^First world problems :)^^
SniperOverwatch
08-16-15, 19:46
What will the KMR do that your current rail won't? Do you frequently find yourself humping your rifle in the bush and think "Wow, these extra 6 ounces are just killing me"?
This.
The gun rags exist to sell you parts you don't need. :)
My gas block looks similar to this:
34631
Based on your input i should be good to go with that on the KMR.
Should fit fine. If not, it'll be close enough for 10 minutes with a hand file and a few coats of cold blue to do the trick.
Looks a hell of a lot cleaner than my shave job lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Saving a pinned muzzle device is not difficult at all. If you have access to an end mill, just kiss the weld with a cutter a little smaler than the weld until you see a ring around the pin. Tap on the muzzle device with a small hammer and the pin will walk out enough to grab it and pull out.
Or you can use a big file and do the same thing.
I've removed and reused three BCM A2Xs, I even reused the pins.:cool:
A seasoned gunsmith can handle this for you and save the comp. I just swapped out a DD LITE for the 13" KMR. It was a shallow pin and a spot weld from BCM (factory). This isn't rocket science for someone experienced.
Here's a pic of the muzzle device. Looks like the weld can easily be found. What say you guys?
3462834629
If you don't have access to an end mill, get a big (12-14")flat bastard Nicholson file and use the edge to file the weld off.
When you can see a faint ring, that's the pin, and the weld is gone at that point.
Spray a little Kroil on it and tap on the brake on the same side that the pin is on. It should start walking out.
IF the pin is a tight press-fit, it won't walk out and you'll have to get someone with an end mill to cut it out so you don't bugger the threads on the barrel.
Do you know of any manufacturers that press fit the pin? Sounds like that would be over doing it to me.
If you don't have access to an end mill, get a big (12-14")flat bastard Nicholson file and use the edge to file the weld off.
When you can see a faint ring, that's the pin, and the weld is gone at that point.
Spray a little Kroil on it and tap on the brake on the same side that the pin is on. It should start walking out.
IF the pin is a tight press-fit, it won't walk out and you'll have to get someone with an end mill to cut it out so you don't bugger the threads on the barrel.
You've been offered advice, take it leave it. I had some muzzle devices where I couldn't get the pin out, because there were tight. The owners of those weapons accepted their losses. YMMV
Do you know of any manufacturers that press fit the pin? Sounds like that would be over doing it to me.
This is why I despise permanent attachment of muzzle devices. Re: the gasblock, I installed a kmr 13 on a friend's 6920 upper after first cutting/profiling the gas block into a low-pro. Whether a kmr will fit over your gasblock will depend on how much it was profiled.
I agree with others, just buy a new upper with a 16" barrel and kmr installed.
Do you know of any manufacturers that press fit the pin? Sounds like that would be over doing it to me.
I think it really depends on who drilled the hole. The few I have taken off were BCM A2Xs installed by BCM. The hole on the flash hider is a little larger than the pin so once the weld is gone, the pin is easy to walk out.
I think there's a good chance your BABC is the same way, but you'll never really know until you cut into it and see what you have.
If you do have cut the brake off, take it as good opportunity to get rid of the obnoxious thing and get an A2X.
Considering that you have to ask permission to leave the state with it once it's registered, it's not worth it IMHO to register a lower receiver unless you're going to be going 12.5" or shorter. 14.5" barrels simply aren't worth the hassle to me.
If you put a 16 inch-or-longer barrelled upper back on it, it's no longer an SBR and can go out of state. It becomes a Title I weapon as soon as you slap the longer upper on it.
Not entirely. You have to read what the BATFE says. If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.
The don't have to be in your actual "possession" for you to still have control.
If you put a 16 inch-or-longer barrelled upper back on it, it's no longer an SBR and can go out of state. It becomes a Title I weapon as soon as you slap the longer upper on it.
SniperOverwatch
08-19-15, 16:23
Was my post deleted? I didn't get any explanation...what am I missing?
Yes, because it has nothing to do with the intent of this thread or his question.
Was my post deleted? I didn't get any explanation...what am I missing?
Not entirely. You have to read what the BATFE says. If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.
The don't have to be in your actual "possession" for you to still have control.
Yeah, I've read it. You and I differ on what "retains control" means. I've never heard of any ATF action on the issue, nor any clarification. Do you have experience that suggests different?
From a practical standpoint, I don't see it as a likely discoverable item.
SniperOverwatch
08-19-15, 17:51
Yes, because it has nothing to do with the intent of this thread or his question.
Gotcha. My bad.
fallenromeo
08-19-15, 19:06
OP, I have a question that I am kinda surprised no one has brought up. What Troy rail is currently on your rifle, and is it just the KMR specifically that you are interested in? Or any Keymod rail?
There are a lot of really nice keymod rails out there, and if you currently have the Troy Alpha tube rail, that uses a standard barrel nut. If you are looking to ditch that in exchange for a Keymod rail, but are not deadset on the KMR, you could look at some of the other options out there that hook up to the standard barrel nut. The Fortis Rev 2.0 comes to mind. Very light weight, well machined, and a bit cheaper than the KMR also. Because you would not have to change the barrel nut, you could just slip the troy tube off, and slip the Fortis over it, and voila. you have your keymod rail, and don't have to worry about damaging your muzzle device.
What kind of nut does the Troy carbon fiber hand guard use?
I handled a carbine with one and it was a cool hand guard. Super light.
What kind of nut does the Troy carbon fiber hand guard use?
I handled a carbine with one and it was a cool hand guard. Super light.
Standard barrel nut.
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