View Full Version : Did Aliens Save Earth?
According to Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon' Aliens tried to save America from nuclear war.' Obviously the source is a rag, but Dr. Mitchell is well known for his outspoken views on this topic
Is he nuts, senile, telling the facts, or all the above? Before we dismiss however, it should be noted various ex astronauts are firm believers in aliens, often due to what they saw as pilots and as astronauts on Apollo missions they were told not to speak of during their careers. See interviews with later shuttle pilots also, such as Story Musgrave who does talk about some of the stuff he saw and his beliefs, etc.
'Aliens tried to save America from nuclear war': UFOs shot at missiles in White Sands to protect Earth, claims former astronaut
Aliens came to Earth to stop a nuclear war between America and Russia, according the bizarre claim of a former astronaut.
Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, says high-ranking military officials witnessed alien ships during weapons tests throughout the 1940s.
The UFOs, he says, were spotted hovering over the world's first nuclear weapons test which took place on July 16, 1945 in the desolate White Sands deserts of New Mexico.
The Nasa veteran has regularly spoken about his belief in aliens ever since he landed on the surface of the moon during the Apollo 14 mission in 1971.
'White Sands was a testing ground for atomic weapons - and that's what the extra-terrestrials were interested in,' the 84-year-old Texan told Mirror Online.
They wanted to know about our military capabilities.
'My own experience talking to people has made it clear the ETs had been attempting to keep us from going to war and help create peace on Earth.'
Dr Mitchell says stories from people who manned missile bases during the 20th Century back up his claims.
Cont:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3195416/Aliens-tried-save-America-nuclear-war-UFOs-shot-missiles-White-Sands-protect-Earth-claims-former-astronaut.html
I'm fairly sure something is out there. Perhaps not what we think it is.
If they are more intelligent than us, I'm sure that while they rightfully view us as the Somalia of the universe with a sense of arrogant space faring entitlement, crude weapons, and primitive bizarre religions; that they likely wouldn't waste time with us other than tell tourist and tradesman alike 'don't go there or near there'.
They'd have to have long lived treks, mastered space folds, or the impossible faster than light travel just to get to us.
I sincerely believe if we caught an alien we would probably be total jerks to him. We say we wouldn't, but we would
sevenhelmet
08-17-15, 10:40
I think the Universe is way too big to assume we are it, as far as life is concerned. That being said, I also think it's ridiculous to think that a spacefaring civilization would cross the massively large expanses of space just to hide in the shadows and shoot down a few test missiles. We aren't even a threat to our own solar system, let alone a life form capable of interstellar travel. But it makes for good storytelling, just like the people who are convinced airliners are releasing chemicals into the upper atmosphere. I've tried to debunk the latter in discussion before, and discovered just how tightly people cling to their beliefs, and just how insulting they can be when presented with evidence to the contrary.
I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
They are old enough now they have little to lose.
http://www.noufors.com/ufo_sightings_by_astronauts.html
Scroll down to the part where Lovell sees a bogey; and CAPCOM doesn't say what the hell are you talking about, but says "is that the booster or is that an actual sighting?"
Eurodriver
08-17-15, 12:09
I think the Universe is way too big to assume we are it, as far as life is concerned. That being said, I also think it's ridiculous to think that a spacefaring civilization would cross the massively large expanses of space just to hide in the shadows and shoot down a few test missiles. We aren't even a threat to our own solar system, let alone a life form capable of interstellar travel. But it makes for good storytelling, just like the people who are convinced airliners are releasing chemicals into the upper atmosphere. I've tried to debunk the latter in discussion before, and discovered just how tightly people cling to their beliefs, and just how insulting they can be when presented with evidence to the contrary.
I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
Bingo.
Crow Hunter
08-17-15, 12:20
I think the Universe is way too big to assume we are it, as far as life is concerned. That being said, I also think it's ridiculous to think that a spacefaring civilization would cross the massively large expanses of space just to hide in the shadows and shoot down a few test missiles. We aren't even a threat to our own solar system, let alone a life form capable of interstellar travel. But it makes for good storytelling, just like the people who are convinced airliners are releasing chemicals into the upper atmosphere. I've tried to debunk the latter in discussion before, and discovered just how tightly people cling to their beliefs, and just how insulting they can be when presented with evidence to the contrary.
I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
Double bingo
or they would care about us ? maybe they have developed from where we are ? I mean look at 150 years ago our idea of flight vs now imagine in 1000 years ?
look at our computers from even just 50 years ago to today look forward 1000 years
maybe they do care enough to butt in and change a few things if they can ?
many of us will try to help out folks in need as our base nature
OR maybe the above we learn interjecting into the middle east does nothing as you have to let the people change not make them change ?
interesting for sure
Averageman
08-17-15, 14:52
When I was a kid I watched these guys time after time strap themselves in to a rocket and fly to the Moon.
I thought they had to be Nuts to do that.
Guess I was right.
Averageman
08-17-15, 14:55
or they would care about us ? maybe they have developed from where we are ? I mean look at 150 years ago our idea of flight vs now imagine in 1000 years ?
look at our computers from even just 50 years ago to today look forward 1000 years
maybe they do care enough to butt in and change a few things if they can ?
many of us will try to help out folks in need as our base nature
OR maybe the above we learn interjecting into the middle east does nothing as you have to let the people change not make them change ?
interesting for sure
I remember watching the first moon landing with my Grandmother. I asked her if She thought She would ever watch someone walk around on the Moon. She said "Nope, they didn't even have airplanes when I was a kid."
That was a WTF moment before I even knew what the F was for.
They are old enough now they have little to lose.
http://www.noufors.com/ufo_sightings_by_astronauts.html
Scroll down to the part where Lovell sees a bogey; and CAPCOM doesn't say what the hell are you talking about, but says "is that the booster or is that an actual sighting?"
I think that one is doctored. Lovell did ask about the current position of the booster and CAPCOM simply gave it to him. He didn't go into further detail because he didn't want to be the guy who reported a UFO.
Mitchell is either a nut case, or he really thinks he saw what he saw. Since his stories have been consistent, and nothing else in his life has changed, the odds that he is a nut case back off somewhat. So, he really thinks he saw what he saw.
I do not know if there is anything out there, but who am I to say no?
or they would care about us ? maybe they have developed from where we are ? I mean look at 150 years ago our idea of flight vs now imagine in 1000 years ?
look at our computers from even just 50 years ago to today look forward 1000 years
maybe they do care enough to butt in and change a few things if they can ?
many of us will try to help out folks in need as our base nature
OR maybe the above we learn interjecting into the middle east does nothing as you have to let the people change not make them change ?
interesting for sure
How about 10,000, 100,000 or a million +?
100 years ago many experts of the time claimed no one would walk on the moon. Not long before that, manned flight was deemed impossible, etc, etc.
We are just on the edge of really starting to understand and explore the more advanced topics of our universe, which is made up mostly of matter we know very little about (Dark Matter) being manipulated by a source of energy we know essentially nothing about (Dark Energy), so to think some civilization with a few hundred thousands year or millions of years head start on us wouldn't have figured out what's seen as insurmountable to us currently is typical human-centric hubris of the worst kind.
Yes, until they sit a ship down on the White House lawn and say "here we be" it's conjecture and sci fi, but I also can't simply dismiss the totality of the evidence (hard radar mil and civi sitings, mil pilots chasing something around that's way beyond our tech, astronauts ongoing sightings, etc, etc) that something not us is in our airspace. What they/it is, I can't say, which is why they remain UFOs but I personally feel swamp gas, mass delusions, and weather balloons no longer cover it.
or they would care about us ? maybe they have developed from where we are ? I mean look at 150 years ago our idea of flight vs now imagine in 1000 years ?
look at our computers from even just 50 years ago to today look forward 1000 years
maybe they do care enough to butt in and change a few things if they can ?
many of us will try to help out folks in need as our base nature
OR maybe the above we learn interjecting into the middle east does nothing as you have to let the people change not make them change ?
interesting for sure
How about 10,000, 100,000 or a million +?
100 years ago many experts of the time claimed no one would walk on the moon. Not long before that, manned flight was deemed impossible, etc, etc.
We are just on the edge of really starting to understand and explore the more advanced topics of our universe, which is made up mostly of matter we know very little about (Dark Matter) being manipulated by a source of energy we know essentially nothing about (Dark Energy), so to think some civilization with a few hundred thousands year or millions of years head start on us wouldn't have figured out what's seen as insurmountable to us currently is typical human-centric hubris of the worst kind.
Yes, until they sit a ship down on the White House lawn and say "here we be" it's conjecture and sci fi, but I also can't simply dismiss the totality of the evidence (hard radar mil and civi sitings, mil pilots chasing something around that's way beyond our tech, astronauts ongoing sightings, etc, etc) that something not us is in our airspace. What they/it is, I can't say, which is why they remain UFOs but I personally feel swamp gas, mass delusions, and weather balloons no longer cover it.
This is the only incident I ever truly wondered about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZ7O9cfpPQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident
Official explanations usually satisfy, but not so much in this case.
Will, if anybody else had posted a thread with title I would have just rolled my eyes and skipped over it as just another M4C thread.
MountainRaven
08-17-15, 16:36
This is the only incident I ever truly wondered about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZ7O9cfpPQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident
Official explanations usually satisfy, but not so much in this case.
Aliens be all like, "Woohoo! We're going to be in the May Day Parade at Red Square! Wait. Carl, it isn't May. And that isn't Red Square. Goddammit Carl!"
yeah cant even imagine !! mind boggling for sure :)
best ad every when I worked with HP :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6m3J4JtJ3Q
How about 10,000, 100,000 or a million +?
100 years ago many experts of the time claimed no one would walk on the moon. Not long before that, manned flight was deemed impossible, etc, etc.
We are just on the edge of really starting to understand and explore the more advanced topics of our universe, which is made up mostly of matter we know very little about (Dark Matter) being manipulated by a source of energy we know essentially nothing about (Dark Energy), so to think some civilization with a few hundred thousands year or millions of years head start on us wouldn't have figured out what's seen as insurmountable to us currently is typical human-centric hubris of the worst kind.
Yes, until they sit a ship down on the White House lawn and say "here we be" it's conjecture and sci fi, but I also can't simply dismiss the totality of the evidence (hard radar mil and civi sitings, mil pilots chasing something around that's way beyond our tech, astronauts ongoing sightings, etc, etc) that something not us is in our airspace. What they/it is, I can't say, which is why they remain UFOs but I personally feel swamp gas, mass delusions, and weather balloons no longer cover it.
I believe there are other beings in this universe (Or perhaps other dimensions) that are intelligent. It would be hard for me to believe otherwise- given the vastness of space and the probability of other dimensions we cannot comprehend or perceive at this time.
There are enough videos like the one Styer posted above to say that something is out there for sure- what "it" is or "they" are; is a mystery.
I'm of the opinion that there are multiple dimensions out there and possibly higher evolved beings that can navigate in between these dimensions be it technological or otherwise.
We always talk about how "far" aliens would have to travel to reach us- but that might not be the case. They could be right here basically in front of/all around us in a different dimension and we just can't perceive them.
I don't know if we will have irrefutable proof in my lifetime or ever- but it seems ridiculous that we are all that is, has been or ever will be.
With how many people have come forward from NASA, Air force and other such organizations and stated that aliens do exist; I think it's hard to ignore anymore.
Used to be people would dismiss aliens saying that someone would come forward- not being able to keep it covered up forever and all- well lot's of people have come forward; and some of the things they say are crazy interesting and kind of scary. And it isn't like they are meth heads or crazies trying to get attention- some of them were in the right places and had access to the right information to know.
The thing that kills me about all these supposed sightings is that their never taken in HD. Like, what's up with that?? BS.. Granted a lot of the stuff is from years past before video recording was worth a damn but still. I love me some aliens but I just wish they'd set down during the Superbowl on national TV and say hi. So if they are real I'm more inclined to believe that the .gov has no clue either what the hell is going on so the cover-ups persist.
They aren't aliens. They have been here for a very long time and have shown themselves throughout history. They are living in the oceans and are advanced inhabitants of this planet.
This is the only incident I ever truly wondered about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZ7O9cfpPQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident
Official explanations usually satisfy, but not so much in this case.
There's a number of events that can't be explained in any easy manner. The Rendleshem Forest incident for example. That's not proof by the standards of science, but it is proof enough for me what took place in that forest was as those men who experienced said it was. What it was (alien, black project stuff, etc) we don't know, but with this info and what else we have, it's clear it was a genuine UFO experience. I know a gent who is a personal friend of this man for example:
http://www.openminds.tv/vet-says-government-acknowledged-injured-ufo-duty/32397
These were not farmers or people seeing swamp gas, weather balloons, or the planet Venus.
This is the only incident I ever truly wondered about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZ7O9cfpPQ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident
Official explanations usually satisfy, but not so much in this case.
There's a number of events that can't be explained in any easy manner. The Rendleshem Forest incident for example. That's not proof by the standards of science, but it is proof enough for me what took place in that forest was as those men who experienced said it was. What it was (alien, black project stuff, etc) we don't know, but with this info and what else we have, it's clear it was a genuine UFO experience. I know a gent who is a personal friend of this man for example:
http://www.openminds.tv/vet-says-government-acknowledged-injured-ufo-duty/32397
These were not farmers or people seeing swamp gas, weather balloons, or the planet Venus.
Business_Casual
08-17-15, 18:01
There are some great books on this subject - for instance "Operation Trojan Horse" that are worth reading. Also Jacques Vallee wrote some good stuff. Basically the point these guys make is what you think of as a UFO is probably inter- dimensional and what you think of as unexplained phenomena is often DoD research related.
Their work will shift your paradigm on the topic.
I take the position that interstellar travel in physical form is impossible and would have zero benefit to the travelers as well as enormous down side.
Heh. Steven Hawking believes an alien race would likely wipe us out "like a colony of ants". I suspect he's right.
I found this article a while back about "the Fermi paradox" and found it very interesting.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
One would be arrogant to assume that we are the only life, "intelligence" notwithstanding, to occupy our universe.
Heh. Steven Hawking believes an alien race would likely wipe us out "like a colony of ants". I suspect he's right.
I'm not sure we'd rank high enough in importance to be wiped out. Just as I don't think anyone would make a special trip to "help" us with our nuclear problem, I don't see anyone bothering to wipe us out either.
The actual problem, and the one Hawking is talking about, is we always assume an advanced species will hold values common to ours. We assume "human morality" is some kind of cosmic constant. The fact of the matter is they might have a value system we can't even relate to, or none at all.
They could be some "super predator" that has developed radically advanced technology. They might just be traveling around and happen to think this planet is full of "tasty things." The idea that we are so damn interesting that aliens have been coming here for millennia to "study us" is kind of hard to accept.
I have to believe any advanced species that has the capacity to go from galaxy to galaxy can find much more interesting things to look at if life is as common as we assume it should be. In the big picture I suspect we are the Casey's gas station in the small town on the road to the big city.
TacticalSledgehammer
08-17-15, 22:15
I feel that the universe is way too large for us to be the only intelligent inhabitants. With the discoveries of other solar systems and planets like Earth, we just simply cannot be "it."
We had lights appear over Cincinnati a couple years ago, much like those over other cities. They tried playing it off like it were people parachuting. I'm still a tad bit skeptical about it, as are many in the area.
They're probably other humans anyway.
my step father (god rest) did two tours in Vietnam, he made his way up to staff Sargent and became "SF" during his second tour, he was a crew chief on the old 130's that did the secret camera missions.
he told me many stories of his time in country, but one thing he was 100% sure of was that he had seen multiple UFO's during his missions, now he never called them aliens, but he would explain seeing aircraft that defied modern science and aerospace ability at the time.
so from a young age i believed in the "unexplainable" and of course did my own research.
a few thing really stand out.
-the black knight satellite- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGTnTH2g0mk
this one to me, is the most damning evidence..
-nasa video of "solar anomalies" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7NIwY5y1A
-airports around the world shutting down for UFO? sightings-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdVUikuqYtw
-multiple astronauts agree that aliens exist and claim to have seen them.
Business_Casual
08-18-15, 06:14
Look at it this way: if you lived in New York City and wanted a pack of cigarettes, you walk 50 feet from your building and buy a pack. You wouldn't fly to Japan every time you wanted a pack, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Same thing for any physical aliens. We are far out on an the arm of the Galaxy, far from where there are dense clusters of planets. It just doesn't make sense that we are being physically visited by aliens.
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 07:30
I believe there are other beings in this universe (Or perhaps other dimensions) that are intelligent. It would be hard for me to believe otherwise- given the vastness of space and the probability of other dimensions we cannot comprehend or perceive at this time.
There are enough videos like the one Styer posted above to say that something is out there for sure- what "it" is or "they" are; is a mystery.
I'm of the opinion that there are multiple dimensions out there and possibly higher evolved beings that can navigate in between these dimensions be it technological or otherwise.
We always talk about how "far" aliens would have to travel to reach us- but that might not be the case. They could be right here basically in front of/all around us in a different dimension and we just can't perceive them.
I don't know if we will have irrefutable proof in my lifetime or ever- but it seems ridiculous that we are all that is, has been or ever will be.
With how many people have come forward from NASA, Air force and other such organizations and stated that aliens do exist; I think it's hard to ignore anymore.
Used to be people would dismiss aliens saying that someone would come forward- not being able to keep it covered up forever and all- well lot's of people have come forward; and some of the things they say are crazy interesting and kind of scary. And it isn't like they are meth heads or crazies trying to get attention- some of them were in the right places and had access to the right information to know.
Its the white lab mice isn't it?
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 07:31
They aren't aliens. They have been here for a very long time and have shown themselves throughout history. They are living in the oceans and are advanced inhabitants of this planet.
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish?
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 08:03
The statistically probability that there is life of some form on another plant is fairly high. Look at all the forms of unicellular life on earth.
The statistical probability that that life has achieved some form of intelligence is slightly lower. Look at the amount of life on earth that has only rudimentary intelligence.
The statistical probability that this intelligent life achieves a form of civilization is lower still. Look at how many species on our planet developed civilization.
The statistical probability that this civilization develops the ability to defy physics as we know it today and develops FTL travel is way, way less probable.
The statistical probability that this FTL traveling civilization managed to find our planet amongst the for all intents and purposes infinite number of other planets in the universe is way lower. Keep in mind that all evidence of our presence travels at the speed of light and this evidence has only existed for the last 100 or so years, if we haven't picked up any evidence of their transmissions, they haven't seen us either.
And finally, the statistical probability that some super, hyper advanced, FTL traveling intelligent race that did discover us and would be so homogenous that they would just watch and "help" us the way that a child might play with a colony of ants versus at least some members of said civilization deciding to go about conquering and enslaving/Soylent Greening/destroying our planet to make room for a Hyperspace Bypass is so astronomically low that there is no way that aliens have ever even been in our solar system, much less visited out planet.
You will note that this whole idea of aliens being here and watching us/helping us started around the time of Star Trek and the Prime Directive and alien "Grays" started after Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Rather than "little green men" from Mars.
Aliens and "alien lore" has taken the place of Faerie in the imagination of Western Civilization with nearly identical parallels in abilities and/or motivations.
However, instead of the original inhabitants of the Earth who are magical folk that live inside of hills and kidnap people who step into Faerie rings and make them lose time now they fly around in space ships and kidnap people and make them lose time and make crop circles.
Some people might look at that and say, "See, aliens have always been among us". However, those same people, lacking a basic understanding of construction would also say that the fact there are pyramids all over the world is a sign of a common civilization influenced by aliens. Completely overlooking the fact that if you give any child in the world a pile wooden building blocks or even just dirt and tell them to build it as high as they can, eventually, through trial and error, they will discover that you can only pile stuff so high without creating a pyramid and the pyramid is the only method you can use until you can either stick things together (Legos) or you discover the arch and can create buttresses. Post and lintel construction can't do it.
Oh, and now they mutilate cows and put anal probes in lonely sexually repressed peoples butts.
Some of yall might like the documentary Sirius on Netflix if you have not already seen it. The documentary provides a wide array of topics such as extraterrestrial life, government cover ups of free energy technology and the sorts. There are brief moments in the documentary where they discuss some high morals humans do not yet posses for life which ET's do which leads to them watching our nuclear development and it's use for destruction. Of course take it all with a grain of salt but I found most of the documentary to be quite interesting which includes the small alien body that was found in South America they were doing tests on.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 08:47
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/14/ufo-hunters-claim-us-department-of-homeland-security-took-this-video_n_7988106.html
Unidentified aircraft, recorded on FLIR, moving in and out of water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=27&v=q6s5RwqnnLM
On a side note, this paper by Nick Bostrom, concerning the Fermi Paradox, always makes my butthole pucker up:
http://www.nickbostrom.com/extraterrestrial.pdf
Bostrom's position is that the higher the likelihood of abundant life in the universe, the higher the probability of "The Great Filter". Clif Notes: "The Great Filter" is not a good thing.
A disconcerting hypothesis is that the Great Filter consists in some destructive tendency common to virtually all sufficiently advanced technological civilizations. Throughout history, great civilizations on Earth have imploded—the Roman Empire, the Mayan civilization that once flourished in Central America, and many others. However, the kind of societal collapse that merely delays the eventual emergence of a space‐colonizing civilization by a few hundred or a few thousand years would not help explain why no such civilization has visited us from another planet. A thousand years may seem a long time to an individual, but in this context it’s a sneeze.**There are planets that are billions of years older than Earth. Any intelligent species on those planets would have had ample time to recover from repeated social or ecological collapses. Even if they failed a thousand times before they succeeded, they could still have arrived here hundreds of millions of years ago...
...So where is the Great Filter?**Behind us, or not behind us?
If the Great Filter is ahead of us, we have still to confront it.**If it is true that almost all intelligent species go extinct before they master the technology for space colonization, then we must expect that our own species, too, will go extinct before reaching technological maturity, since we have no reason to think that we will be any luckier than most other species at our stage of development.**If the Great Filter is ahead of us, we must relinquish all hope of ever colonizing the galaxy; and we must fear that our adventure will end soon, or at any rate, prematurely.**Therefore, we better hope that the
Great Filter is behind us.
So this is why I’m hoping that our space probes will discover dead rocks and lifeless sands on Mars, on Jupiter’s moon Europa, and everywhere else our astronomers look.**It would keep alive the hope for a great future for humanity.
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 08:50
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/14/ufo-hunters-claim-us-department-of-homeland-security-took-this-video_n_7988106.html
Unidentified aircraft, recorded on FLIR, moving in and out of water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=27&v=q6s5RwqnnLM
On a side note, this paper by Nick Bostrom, concerning the Fermi Paradox, always makes my butthole pucker up:
http://www.nickbostrom.com/extraterrestrial.pdf
Bostrom's position is that the higher the likelihood of abundant life in the universe, the higher the probability of "The Great Filter". Clif Notes: "The Great Filter" is not a good thing.
It's the Reapers. They are out there waiting for us to find Element Zero on Mars.
Voodoo_Man
08-18-15, 08:51
I've had this convo before with various people...statistically speaking....probability...first hand testimony....astronauts....black knight...depth of the sea...
Where's the proof?
Anyone?
Give me something tangible that can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, scientifically.
Not trying to start an argument or confrontation, but the moment that evidence exists confirmed by modern scientific standards, I'll believe. Until then, the boogie man, Sasquatch and the locness monster are all in the same boat...
The statistically probability that there is life of some form on another plant is fairly high. Look at all the forms of unicellular life on earth.
The statistically probability of their not being some form of life other than what's on earth is as close to zero as you could get when one looks at the numbers we are working with and the fact planets are even more common than expected. Whether we as a species ever find it is another matter.
The statistical probability that that life has achieved some form of intelligence is slightly lower. Look at the amount of life on earth that has only rudimentary intelligence.
Based on our experiences on earth, it seems a safe bet that intelligent life is rarer. How rare compared to other forms is speculation of course.
The statistical probability that this intelligent life achieves a form of civilization is lower still. Look at how many species on our planet developed civilization.
We have no way of knowing that at this time.
The statistical probability that this civilization develops the ability to defy physics as we know it today and develops FTL travel is way, way less probable.
See above. It should also be noted that FTL does not defy physics. There are a number of possibilities for traveling long distances that does not break any laws of physics as we currently understand them.
The statistical probability that this FTL traveling civilization managed to find our planet amongst the for all intents and purposes infinite number of other planets in the universe is way lower. Keep in mind that all evidence of our presence travels at the speed of light and this evidence has only existed for the last 100 or so years, if we haven't picked up any evidence of their transmissions, they haven't seen us either.
And finally, the statistical probability that some super, hyper advanced, FTL traveling intelligent race that did discover us and would be so homogenous that they would just watch and "help" us the way that a child might play with a colony of ants versus at least some members of said civilization deciding to go about conquering and enslaving/Soylent Greening/destroying our planet to make room for a Hyperspace Bypass is so astronomically low that there is no way that aliens have ever even been in our solar system, much less visited out planet.
You will note that this whole idea of aliens being here and watching us/helping us started around the time of Star Trek and the Prime Directive and alien "Grays" started after Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Rather than "little green men" from Mars.
Aliens and "alien lore" has taken the place of Faerie in the imagination of Western Civilization with nearly identical parallels in abilities and/or motivations.
However, instead of the original inhabitants of the Earth who are magical folk that live inside of hills and kidnap people who step into Faerie rings and make them lose time now they fly around in space ships and kidnap people and make them lose time and make crop circles.
Some people might look at that and say, "See, aliens have always been among us". However, those same people, lacking a basic understanding of construction would also say that the fact there are pyramids all over the world is a sign of a common civilization influenced by aliens. Completely overlooking the fact that if you give any child in the world a pile wooden building blocks or even just dirt and tell them to build it as high as they can, eventually, through trial and error, they will discover that you can only pile stuff so high without creating a pyramid and the pyramid is the only method you can use until you can either stick things together (Legos) or you discover the arch and can create buttresses. Post and lintel construction can't do it.
Oh, and now they mutilate cows and put anal probes in lonely sexually repressed peoples butts.
What's interesting is, when you take all the worst case scenarios statistically speaking, and then match it to the shear numbers, it comes out that there would be millions of planets with intelligent life on them. The only place I tend to divide statistically probability in this debate is the statistically probability of their being intelligent life other than us is high but that's a totally different issue and statistically probability of whether or not that life has actually visited us. Two completely different issues and statistically probabilities. Neither of which we have the hard numbers/data needed to actually calculate to any read degree of certainty.
The statistically probability that there is life of some form on another plant is fairly high. Look at all the forms of unicellular life on earth.
The statistically probability of their not being some form of life other than what's on earth is as close to zero as you could get when one looks at the numbers we are working with and the fact planets are even more common than expected. Whether we as a species ever find it is another matter.
The statistical probability that that life has achieved some form of intelligence is slightly lower. Look at the amount of life on earth that has only rudimentary intelligence.
Based on our experiences on earth, it seems a safe bet that intelligent life is rarer. How rare compared to other forms is speculation of course.
The statistical probability that this intelligent life achieves a form of civilization is lower still. Look at how many species on our planet developed civilization.
We have no way of knowing that at this time.
The statistical probability that this civilization develops the ability to defy physics as we know it today and develops FTL travel is way, way less probable.
See above. It should also be noted that FTL does not defy physics. There are a number of possibilities for traveling long distances that does not break any laws of physics as we currently understand them.
The statistical probability that this FTL traveling civilization managed to find our planet amongst the for all intents and purposes infinite number of other planets in the universe is way lower. Keep in mind that all evidence of our presence travels at the speed of light and this evidence has only existed for the last 100 or so years, if we haven't picked up any evidence of their transmissions, they haven't seen us either.
And finally, the statistical probability that some super, hyper advanced, FTL traveling intelligent race that did discover us and would be so homogenous that they would just watch and "help" us the way that a child might play with a colony of ants versus at least some members of said civilization deciding to go about conquering and enslaving/Soylent Greening/destroying our planet to make room for a Hyperspace Bypass is so astronomically low that there is no way that aliens have ever even been in our solar system, much less visited out planet.
You will note that this whole idea of aliens being here and watching us/helping us started around the time of Star Trek and the Prime Directive and alien "Grays" started after Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Rather than "little green men" from Mars.
Aliens and "alien lore" has taken the place of Faerie in the imagination of Western Civilization with nearly identical parallels in abilities and/or motivations.
However, instead of the original inhabitants of the Earth who are magical folk that live inside of hills and kidnap people who step into Faerie rings and make them lose time now they fly around in space ships and kidnap people and make them lose time and make crop circles.
Some people might look at that and say, "See, aliens have always been among us". However, those same people, lacking a basic understanding of construction would also say that the fact there are pyramids all over the world is a sign of a common civilization influenced by aliens. Completely overlooking the fact that if you give any child in the world a pile wooden building blocks or even just dirt and tell them to build it as high as they can, eventually, through trial and error, they will discover that you can only pile stuff so high without creating a pyramid and the pyramid is the only method you can use until you can either stick things together (Legos) or you discover the arch and can create buttresses. Post and lintel construction can't do it.
Oh, and now they mutilate cows and put anal probes in lonely sexually repressed peoples butts.
What's interesting is, when you take all the worst case scenarios statistically speaking, and then match it to the shear numbers, it comes out that there would be millions of planets with intelligent life on them. The only place I tend to divide statistically probability in this debate is the statistically probability of their being intelligent life other than us is high but that's a totally different issue and statistically probability of whether or not that life has actually visited us. Two completely different issues and statistically probabilities. Neither of which we have the hard numbers/data needed to actually calculate to any read degree of certainty.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 08:58
More on "The Great Filter"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GnkAcdRgcI
I've had this convo before with various people...statistically speaking....probability...first hand testimony....astronauts....black knight...depth of the sea...
Where's the proof?
Anyone?
Give me something tangible that can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, scientifically.
Not trying to start an argument or confrontation, but the moment that evidence exists confirmed by modern scientific standards, I'll believe. Until then, the boogie man, Sasquatch and the locness monster are all in the same boat...
All reasonable comments/points.
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 09:08
It should also be noted that FTL does not defy physics. There are a number of possibilities for traveling long distances that does not break any laws of physics as we currently understand them.
It defies Newtonian physics in that an inertial object (something with mass) cannot travel at the speed of light much less faster than.
Now an object that has no mass, like a photon, or a tachyon can, but if it has mass, (which we assume aliens and their spacecraft would), it can't be done short of manipulating space/time itself. Which I guess is possible but I can't imagine messing with something like that doesn't have "ripple effects".
There is always the possibility that we are missing something and we are wrong. But there is also the possibility that our galaxy is actually just a marble being played with by extradimensional aliens or that the universe as we know it is actually just the inner working of a giant super creature and our galaxy is just a bit of alien hemoglobin floating through this super creatures body.
Of course, the entire universe might have just sprung into existence a few minutes ago and we actually didn't just have this internet conversation.
Or maybe all of this is just a fevered dream of some autistic kid.
By the way, is ANYONE getting all these pop culture references I am spraying about?
It defies Newtonian physics in that an inertial object (something with mass) cannot travel at the speed of light much less faster than.
Yes, that's not the issue. By FTL we tend to mean other means of crossing large distances than attempting to get an object to travel at speed of light or faster, none of which break physical laws. Most discussions on FTL mean the distance covered is greater than what could be achieved traveling at the speed of light using other methods many of which are on solid ground in science, but strictly theoretical at this time obviously.
Now an object that has no mass, like a photon, or a tachyon can, but if it has mass, (which we assume aliens and their spacecraft would), it can't be done short of manipulating space/time itself. Which I guess is possible but I can't imagine messing with something like that doesn't have "ripple effects".
There is always the possibility that we are missing something and we are wrong. But there is also the possibility that our galaxy is actually just a marble being played with by extradimensional aliens or that the universe as we know it is actually just the inner working of a giant super creature and our galaxy is just a bit of alien hemoglobin floating through this super creatures body.
Of course, the entire universe might have just sprung into existence a few minutes ago and we actually didn't just have this internet conversation.
Or maybe all of this is just a fevered dream of some autistic kid.
By the way, is ANYONE getting all these pop culture references I am spraying about?
Fun page to look at is Tau Zero run Marc Millis, a former NASA Glenn physicist, founded the organization to consider revolutionary advancements in propulsion.
https://tauzero.aero/
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 09:15
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 09:21
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
Yes.
But then I identified it so it became an IFO.
Actually, a couple of times it was an IPO.
(Identified Planetary Object)
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
I had one experience that's not dramatic, but had an effect on me at least. I was driving down long dirt road in NH with a friend at night and it was a super clear night mid 80s. One "star" in particular was really bright. I could see it out of the front windshield. I pointed it to my friend and he agreed it seemed unusually bright and slightly larger than typical star or planet. Mars, Venus, etc bright maybe. So I pulled the car over and we got out to look at it. I know my basic planets and constellations and such and new where those planets are and all that. We got out of the car and looked at it. It didn't do anything, and it looked like either it was way up there or very small, but just looked like a very bright slightly larger than usual star. We were both looking at it, when it simply went from stand still to speed and was gone. It went right of us and was out of sight very quickly. If we knew it's actual distance from us, could have estimated the speed, but no idea if it was 1,0000ft or 50k ft. We both looked at each other like "WTF?" and got back in the car and drove off. Talked about it a few times over the years.
It was a UFO (meaning I have no idea what it was) but what it was I don't know. I do know it was not an airplane, chopper, weather balloon or swamp gas. Visual illusion of some kind caused by the atmosphere? Other? I have no idea.
I've had this convo before with various people...statistically speaking....probability...first hand testimony....astronauts....black knight...depth of the sea...
Where's the proof?
Anyone?
Give me something tangible that can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, scientifically.
Not trying to start an argument or confrontation, but the moment that evidence exists confirmed by modern scientific standards, I'll believe. Until then, the boogie man, Sasquatch and the locness monster are all in the same boat...
I find this post interesting, especially the last couple sentences, from someone with a screen name of "Voodoo Man." :)
Seriously and humor aside, the coelacanth was 100% extinct, until they reeled one up in the early 20th century. Just because there has not been proof (or enough proof that one is satisfied), doesn't mean it isn't real. Like you, though, I am skepical and want proof, but my mind is open enough to believe it's possible.
sevenhelmet
08-18-15, 09:57
Rather than a singular condition, I think the "Great Filter" may be more of a limitation in the capabilities of a moderately-sized form of life, or a combination of factors:
1.) Limited intelligence.
2.) Physical size and frailty.
3.) Limited energy.
4.) The biological desire to multiply.
Put all 4 together, and the brightest minds in our civilization have yet to fathom how we could form an interstellar civilization. Our numbers at this point (7B and counting?) are starting to hold us back IMO, simply by virtue of how much it takes just to "make the world go 'round". Maybe the Earth can sustain more people, but I don't think that it should. What's nicer, a crowded, noisy restaurant with a customer backlog and kitchen running behind, or a quieter, mostly filled one where things can be run more smoothly and you get better service? I'm also surprised nobody else mentions energy. Energy is incredibly important to a civilization, and despite being able to make small amounts of it in a renewable fashion, our civilization's infrastructure is 100% reliant on non-renewable sources of energy such as fossil fuels and nuclear fission. That's only going to last for a proverbial blip of time on a cosmic scale, and then what? As it stands now, we aren't even aware of a proven energy source which could feasibly replace our existing ones and allow our civilization to continue to advance in its current form. Wind and solar isn't going to get us to the planets, or even keep all our lights on. Imagine exploring space without fossil fuels or nuclear alternatives, like Project Orion. Even something doable with today's tech, like launching an array of orbital solar facilities to power the Earth, would require fossil fuels or nuclear engines, plus the requirements of upkeep. And that's only a short-lived, "status quo" solution. Sci-fi often has civilizations harnessing the power of a star, but to get there, we have to show enough proactive intelligence to use our dwindling current energy to establish something more permanent. Our civilization isn't very good at that kind of proactive thinking, and as we multiply, the problem only gets worse. I'm not saying energy is the "Great Filter", but it's certainly a hurdle we'll have to overcome to simply keep existing, let alone advance in space.
If there was one thing to help contribute to the advancement of our civilization, it would be a renewable energy source of sufficient energy density to power all our "stuff", while being cheap, scale-able, and safe enough to be put into widespread use.
PatrioticDisorder
08-18-15, 10:02
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
I saw something moving relatively low, traveling relatively slow making little noise, no lights on a dark & cold February night in upstate NY. Looked like 1 object that consisted of 2 large rectangular shaped parts, 1 rectangle staggered on top of the other rectangle. The former Griffiss Air Force Base is located 20 miles east and slightly south of the location I saw this object, foothills of the Adirondack mountains, nothing much nearby except a few farms, very rural area.
That same former Air Force base was the site of what was formerly part of the Air Force research lab (after it formerly closed as a base in the 90s), one of the Air bases long enough to accommodate the SR-71, houses an important part of NORAD watching the northeast of the USA (first people to know planes were hijacked on 9/11) and rumored to have an underground facility that goes very far into the earth. I'm guessing whatever I saw was an experimental aircraft that took off from Griffiss, not other worldly but it certainly didn't appear to me to be a conventional aircraft (at least as we would consider conventional).
The caveat I will add, it was very dark (country/rural) and the object had no lights so perhaps it was more conventional (may have had wings, but it didn't appear to have them to me) than what I thought when I saw it, but that still doesn't explain why it was so quiet (I heard it, but it was very quiet, nothing "motor" sounding) and flying so low (maybe 300 feet over land) and moving slow (20-30mph I'd guesstimate).
Voodoo_Man
08-18-15, 10:05
I find this post interesting, especially the last couple sentences, from someone with a screen name of "Voodoo Man." :)
Seriously and humor aside, the coelacanth was 100% extinct, until they reeled one up in the early 20th century. Just because there has not been proof (or enough proof that one is satisfied), doesn't mean it isn't real. Like you, though, I am skepical and want proof, but my mind is open enough to believe it's possible.
One doesn't necessarily mean the other.
The depths of the ocean are vastly under-explored and we know very little of what is beneath our own oceans. The fact some fish thought to be extinct isn't does not surprise me.
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 10:17
Doesn't anyone consider the fact that today, in a time in which almost every person walking around on Earth, even in most 3rd world countries, is carrying around a cell phone with a HD video camera, that no one has managed to film anything that doesn't look like a Frisbee on a string or an atmospheric effect.
Couple this with the fact that even with our pitiful non-FTL spaceships we are able to send probes to the farthest reaches of our solar system to take lots and lots of HD pictures of planets that we never even have to set foot on, that aliens capable of traveling the mind boggling distances of interstellar space have to dip down into our atmosphere to look at us? Really?
This seems like the most logical explanation:
From the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven't made interstellar contact yet and buzz them, meaning that they find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one's going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises.
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
Not a UFO but an interesting event. Maybe mid to late 80s. Had the scope out back with wife and son. We witnessed what looked like a pin wheel spiraling high in the sky SE. This went on for about 10 or 15 minutes. Got the neighbor out to witness also. It was on the news and was reported to the east coast. There was never an answer to what it was, no launchings at the time or report of a satellite re-entering.
I do have a friend that was in radio in the 70s to early 80s. He was approached by a resident in the area that claimed to be a USAF photographer that was on the ground in Roswell and had some film that he had from the event. He gave 2 - 8 x 10 BW prints of the wreckage with 2 chard bodies. One was wrapped in the wreckage, the other by itself. They were in a kind of reflective suit and had helmets that looked oddly similar to those weird dome helmets in Earth vs Flying Saucers.. I thought that was amusing. I borrowed the photos and visited my father who was an avid and well know astronomer in our area. We viewed the photos with a mag glass and discovered a hex nut on one wreckage members.. It all looked very interesting up to that point. I contacted that old buddy to dig them out and scan for me a year or so ago. I'll remind him, if I can get copies I'll post. He's a busy guy so I'm not holding my breath. I do have to say though, if it was a fake it was done quite well and assuming it was.
One doesn't necessarily mean the other.
The depths of the ocean are vastly under-explored and we know very little of what is beneath our own oceans. The fact some fish thought to be extinct isn't does not surprise me.
True, but one doesn't necessarily negate the other, either. The depths of space (the ocean) are vastly under-explored and we know very little of what is in space (beneath our own oceans). Just pointing out the argument works both ways.
Straight Shooter
08-18-15, 10:19
I've had this convo before with various people...statistically speaking....probability...first hand testimony....astronauts....black knight...depth of the sea...
Where's the proof?
Anyone?
Give me something tangible that can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, scientifically.
Not trying to start an argument or confrontation, but the moment that evidence exists confirmed by modern scientific standards, I'll believe. Until then, the boogie man, Sasquatch and the locness monster are all in the same boat...
I say this NOT in a smart-assed way, so please dont let it come across this way..but many put their trust/belief in science to some level or degree, and I simply say SCIENCE CHANGES CONSTANTLY! EVERYTHING I learned as young boy is completely different now. "Modern Standards" change more often than some change drawers!! One day, Black Holes do this or that..a week later, no..they do that or this. One week..dinosaurs died from a massive comet...next month a heatwave..two weeks later they froze to death. I mean, Ive now seen well over two dozen reasons now why dinosaurs died. IF its "science"...WHY does it change? SCIENCE IS FALLABLE! SCIENCE can be just as influenced by who is doing it, as can be anything else. An example I like to use is carbon dating. MANY just take this as irrefutable, proven science that cannot be denied. HORSE SHIT. There are JUST AS MANY credentialed scientists who DO NOT believe in or use it as there are that do. The problem is...you wont ever hardly hear from them. YOU have to seek THEM out, thru books and internet and interviews, ect.
Go back to the seventies..look at covers of TIME and ALL the other rags and see them proclaiming ICE AGE COMETH and other such nonsense. That was "modern science" then, wasn't it? Look at ALL the pure 100% BULLSHIT we've been fed for DECADES about "peak oil". " We are running out of oil...fields going dry"..BLAH...BLAH...BLAH. Again...was this not what all the "modern science" people were screaming. THEY...WERE..WRONG, period. Now, IF we were to run out in 20 years, they'll holler " SEE WE TOLD YOU"...back in the SEVENTIES!
Me...Im more and more taking everything aid today with a grain of salt...cause its gonna change, again...soon.
Also: Let me add this- most everything coming out from the science world has the word "THEORY" after it. Well, a THEORY aint "science"! It is someones educated GUESS..NOT carved in stone fact. Something else to consider.
Voodoo_Man
08-18-15, 10:30
True, but one doesn't necessarily negate the other, either. The depths of space (the ocean) are vastly under-explored and we know very little of what is in space (beneath our own oceans). Just pointing out the argument works both ways.
I expect it to be the same, two edged sword and all that - hence the proof part.
I say this NOT in a smart-assed way, so please dont let it come across this way..but many put their trust/belief in science to some level or degree, and I simply say SCIENCE CHANGES CONSTANTLY! EVERYTHING I learned as young boy is completely different now. "Modern Standards" change more often than some change drawers!! One day, Black Holes do this or that..a week later, no..they do that or this. One week..dinosaurs died from a massive comet...next month a heatwave..two weeks later they froze to death. I mean, Ive now seen well over two dozen reasons now why dinosaurs died. IF its "science"...WHY does it change? SCIENCE IS FALLABLE! SCIENCE can be just as influenced by who is doing it, as can be anything else. An example I like to use is carbon dating. MANY just take this as irrefutable, proven science that cannot be denied. HORSE SHIT. There are JUST AS MANY credentialed scientists who DO NOT believe in or use it as there are that do. The problem is...you wont ever hardly hear from them. YOU have to seek THEM out, thru books and internet and interviews, ect.
Go back to the seventies..look at covers of TIME and ALL the other rags and see them proclaiming ICE AGE COMETH and other such nonsense. That was "modern science" then, wasn't it? Look at ALL the pure 100% BULLSHIT we've been fed for DECADES about "peak oil". " We are running out of oil...fields going dry"..BLAH...BLAH...BLAH. Again...was this not what all the "modern science" people were screaming. THEY...WERE..WRONG, period. Now, IF we were to run out in 20 years, they'll holler " SEE WE TOLD YOU"...back in the SEVENTIES!
Me...Im more and more taking everything aid today with a grain of salt...cause its gonna change, again...soon.
Also: Let me add this- most everything coming out from the science world has the word "THEORY" after it. Well, a THEORY aint "science"! It is someones educated GUESS..NOT carved in stone fact. Something else to consider.
Yeah so....science changes...because that's what it does...change as more evidence/proof is discovered and it evolves as all things do. Hence why I said "modern standards" because the modern standards of that time are the only applicable standards which could be accepted.
I rather have a theory derailed by science than hope or, forbid, faith, that something exists a way it does.
Science is the sole qualifier and quantifier of all things logical or otherwise, if we disregard its evolving stance, we disregard our own evolution.
edit - please stop typing words you want to be read with emphasis in capitals, its very annoying in a 3rd grade temper tantrum sort of way.
Straight Shooter
08-18-15, 10:40
I've had this convo before with various people...statistically speaking....probability...first hand testimony....astronauts....black knight...depth of the sea...
Where's the proof?
Anyone?
Give me something tangible that can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, scientifically.
Not trying to start an argument or confrontation, but the moment that evidence exists confirmed by modern scientific standards, I'll believe. Until then, the boogie man, Sasquatch and the locness monster are all in the same boat...
I expect it to be the same, two edged sword and all that - hence the proof part.
Yeah so....science changes...because that's what it does...change as more evidence/proof is discovered and it evolves as all things do. Hence why I said "modern standards" because the modern standards of that time are the only applicable standards which could be accepted.
I rather have a theory derailed by science than hope or, forbid, faith, that something exists a way it does.
Science is the sole qualifier and quantifier of all things logical or otherwise, if we disregard its evolving stance, we disregard our own evolution.
edit - please stop typing words you want to be read with emphasis in capitals, its very annoying in a 3rd grade temper tantrum sort of way.
And THIS is how I KNOW Im RIGHT. Science lovers HATE ANYTHING to do with "faith", Bible, religion, God/Jesus ect. They talk about how the Bible "contradicts itself" while ignoring everytime science does it, which is a hell of a lot more often. Oh well, we'll be debating this until the very end I reckon. And..BTW..Ill type any damn way I FEEL LIKE typing.
Here's a scary thought. What if of all the life in the universe, we were the most advanced and space faring?
UFO doesn't mean alien. There are plenty of aircraft over the years that no one knew about until enough time went on. I remember back in the 90s everyone talking about the Aurora but no one's actually seen one, to my limited knowledge on the matter.
To this day the SR-71 looks like something Buck Rogers would fly.
What if we're the best intelligent life has to offer after all? And if we landed on another planet, how honestly would we conduct ourselves?
Like we did with the Americas? Maybe better? If we landed on a blue planet full of naked and primitive culture that weren't our physical betters wouldn't we, in an arrogant but well-meaning way, attempt to 'civilize' them?
We fantasize about green haired alien girls, far out space monsters, bizarre starships, and death rays.
Perhaps because it's a scarier thought to think we might be the highest evolved race and we're still a total mess.
Not logical Vulcans or even conquering Klingons, but simple flawed people with a lot of complex issues who aren't as patient as we probably should be.
Voodoo_Man
08-18-15, 10:44
And THIS is how I KNOW Im RIGHT. Science lovers HATE ANYTHING to do with "faith", Bible, religion, God/Jesus ect. They talk about how the Bible "contradicts itself" while ignoring everytime science does it, which is a hell of a lot more often. Oh well, we'll be debating this until the very end I reckon. And..BTW..Ill type any damn way I FEEL LIKE typing.
This will be my final response to you on this topic.
When you attack the man instead of the topic, you have put yourself in a losing position
Refute the facts, not condemn the man.
Straight Shooter
08-18-15, 10:49
Did YOU not do t first? And did I not type a WHOLE POST giving my argument? I did not attack you, and in fact said outright I meant to not sound smart assed. Again, YOU PROVE to me, as if I needed it, that SCIENCE WORSHIPPERS cannot stand for their religion to be merely questioned let alone dis-believed.
And, your line " Science is the sole qualifier and quantifier of all things logical or otherwise", is, to me..the MOST ridiculous thing Ive ever read in my life. And I too, am done here.
Did YOU not do t first? And did I not type a WHOLE POST giving my argument? I did not attack you, and in fact said outright I meant to not sound smart assed.
You failed in that goal and using caps = yelling at people.
Again, YOU PROVE to me, as if I needed it, that SCIENCE WORSHIPPERS cannot stand for their religion to be merely questioned let alone dis-believed.
We science "worshippers" tend to prefer people who have some science background to discuss and debate the topic with. It's like debating guns with people who don't know much about guns, but think they do. When you're well out of your lane on a topic, it's impossible to really discuss it. You're clearly well out of your lane. You don't know what you don't know and all that.
And, your line " Science is the sole qualifier and quantifier of all things logical or otherwise", is, to me..the MOST ridiculous thing Ive ever read in my life. And I too, am done here.
Please yes. Back on topic now I hope....
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
Yes, I was on a backpacking/camping trip with four of my best buds in High School during our senior year. We were sitting around the campfire out in the middle of nowhere star gazing and one of my buddies pointed out 3 odd "stars" that none of us could explain- we all knew of where things should be in the sky and these 3 blips didn't make sense.
They were in the shape of a large triangle if you drew lines in between them. They were very bright and kind of "vibrating" more than normal stars do. We stared at them for quite some time. After about 2 hours they started moving together across the sky slowly for maybe 3-5 minutes, they got brighter and then just vanished.
I have no clue what those balls of light were, but they were not satellites, aircraft we knew of or stars/planets/etc, and I don't believe it was ball lightening (I have seen ball lightening on a separate occasion). Definitely a UFO or perhaps 3 UFO's. None of us slept that night,talk about an adrenaline rush; it was pretty creepy- I remember feeling irked out and having a lot of thoughts running through my head.
One of my buddies was convinced one of us drugged him and we were playing a joke on him.
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish?
Exactly.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 14:27
Just curious,
Anyone here ever seen a UFO?
My experience is as follows:
Several buddies and I were hanging out in my parents' subdivision near the neighborhood pool.
We noticed a "rushing of air" sound that gradually started getting more pronounced.
Through the treeline overhead, we could see a cigar-shaped aircraft, approximately 150' in altitude, traveling what appeared to be around 75-100mph.
On the fore and aft of the object was an extremely bright, purple-white light of some kind.
There were no wings, or visibile/apparent means of propulsion.
I have no idea what the hell it was. Logic wants me to believe we either saw the world's fastest blimp, or the world's slowest cruise missile.
The closest rendering I could find to what we saw:
http://worldufophotosandnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CIGAR-990.jpg
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 14:44
I actually saw an extremely bright object going at an incredible speed from East to West one night followed by another bright dot chasing it many years ago.
I was so excited and I ran in to tell my parents. Literally as I was walking in the news was reporting how if you ran outside, "right then" you would see the International Space Station fly over and see the Space Shuttle right after it with the naked eye due to a peculiar combination of atmospheric effects and the angle of the Sun relative to their position making them stand out. They actually missed it by about 2 min for my area. It was cool though.
So much for my UFO....:(
I think a VERY large portion of UFO sightings are a combination of light angles and atmospheric effects on normal objects that happen so quickly and disperse so rapidly that people can't figure out what they are before they are gone or are so distorted they look like something they are not.
ETA:
If you haven't already, you should check on Brain Games on Netflix instant. It is extremely surprising how easy it is to trick the human eye/brain combination into seeing something that isn't there based on what the brain expects to see. (That is why you will see very few people who have no belief in ghosts/UFOs/Faeries reporting they saw something. Their brains aren't looking for it)
It is also extremely eye opening in relation to "eye witness" testimony. Holy crap.
I actually saw an extremely bright object going at an incredible speed from East to West one night followed by another bright dot chasing it many years ago.
I was so excited and I ran in to tell my parents. Literally as I was walking in the news was reporting how if you ran outside, "right then" you would see the International Space Station fly over and see the Space Shuttle right after it with the naked eye due to a peculiar combination of atmospheric effects and the angle of the Sun relative to their position making them stand out. They actually missed it by about 2 min for my area. It was cool though.
So much for my UFO....:(
I think a VERY large portion of UFO sightings are a combination of light angles and atmospheric effects on normal objects that happen so quickly and disperse so rapidly that people can't figure out what they are before they are gone or are so distorted they look like something they are not.
ETA:
If you haven't already, you should check on Brain Games on Netflix instant. It is extremely surprising how easy it is to trick the human eye/brain combination into seeing something that isn't there based on what the brain expects to see.
It is also extremely eye opening in relation to "eye witness" testimony. Holy crap.
I'd say in majority of cases that's true, but when you have a hard radar lock on one from both a mil and civi location, jets are scrambled, the pilots give chase and make visual siting of something clearly not anything they can identify, and the objects takes off at a rate of speed that can't even be calculated, what would you call that one? That's happened countless times now over the decades. What it is, I don't know, but there's enough expert eyewitness accounts and other factors that make it clear it's not weather phenomenon, swamp gas, etc. Many think it's black project stuff of ours, but the performance of these objects seems way beyond our current tech, but who knows.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 15:05
Will, if you get a chance, and haven't already heard them, look up some of the audio recordings from pilots to ATCs regarding odd objects.
Off the top of my head there was one from Luthansa and another one from Japan Airlines. They are extremely interesting.
When it comes to eyewitness testimony on this stuff, the most valuable sources are .mil, LEO, and commercial pilots. The reason being is that the mere utterance of something like this can turn into a career-buster.
Crow Hunter
08-18-15, 15:38
I'd say in majority of cases that's true, but when you have a hard radar lock on one from both a mil and civi location, jets are scrambled, the pilots give chase and make visual siting of something clearly not anything they can identify, and the objects takes off at a rate of speed that can't even be calculated, what would you call that one? That's happened countless times now over the decades. What it is, I don't know, but there's enough expert eyewitness accounts and other factors that make it clear it's not weather phenomenon, swamp gas, etc. Many think it's black project stuff of ours, but the performance of these objects seems way beyond our current tech, but who knows.
Depends on the type and sensitivity of the radar. Sometimes just a density change in air can reflect radio waves, ground clutter, or some other type of radio opaque natural phenomena. Sometimes those same temperature inversions may distort light or have strange shaped clouds or even be a flock of birds, couple that with an expectation that you are going to see some type of aircraft when you get there, you get people that see something. Not because they are crazy or they are making something up, but because the human brain takes shortcuts all the time. Most of the "reality" that you and I see every day, isn't, in reality, what we perceive. It is what our brains have decided that we perceive.
Preconceived notions and all.
It is very likely that a person who's reality was not aircraft that was taken to the exact same place at the exact same time and saw the exact same phenomenon will perceive something completely different.
Will, if you get a chance, and haven't already heard them, look up some of the audio recordings from pilots to ATCs regarding odd objects.
Off the top of my head there was one from Luthansa and another one from Japan Airlines. They are extremely interesting.
When it comes to eyewitness testimony on this stuff, the most valuable sources are .mil, LEO, and commercial pilots. The reason being is that the mere utterance of something like this can turn into a career-buster.
I have heard them. All very interesting to be sure. Veteran pilots putting their careers at great risk by reporting a huge object following them. Hallucinations? other? All three people willing to simply make it up? How do they explain the corresponding radar? I don't know...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3X1LDCaJE
Depends on the type and sensitivity of the radar. Sometimes just a density change in air can reflect radio waves, ground clutter, or some other type of radio opaque natural phenomena. Sometimes those same temperature inversions may distort light or have strange shaped clouds or even be a flock of birds, couple that with an expectation that you are going to see some type of aircraft when you get there, you get people that see something. Not because they are crazy or they are making something up, but because the human brain takes shortcuts all the time. Most of the "reality" that you and I see every day, isn't, in reality, what we perceive. It is what our brains have decided that we perceive.
Preconceived notions and all.
It is very likely that a person who's reality was not aircraft that was taken to the exact same place at the exact same time and saw the exact same phenomenon will perceive something completely different.
Agreed. All fair and legit points that have to be taken into account. One can't be objective and science minded and ignore the realities which you present as a variable.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 15:58
Edgar Mitchell isn't the only one who has spoken about this sort of thing:
Gordon Cooper had several sightings of unknown aircraft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITmIPc67Guc
The man was nothing short of an absolute badass.
http://www.space.com/24520-gordon-cooper.html
Cooper transferred his commission to the United States Air Force in 1949, was placed on active duty and received flight training at Perrin Air Force Base, Texas and Williams AFB, Arizona.
Cooper's first flight assignment came in 1950 at Landstuhl Air Base, West Germany, where he flew F-84 Thunderjets and F-86 Sabres for four years. He later became flight commander of the 525th Fighter Bomber Squadron. While in Germany, he also attended the European Extension of the University of Maryland. Returning to the United States in 1954, he studied for two years at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology in Ohio, and in 1956 completed his Bachelor of Science degree in Aerospace Engineering. Cooper was then assigned to the Experimental Flight Test School at Edwards Air Force Base in California, and after graduation was posted to the Flight Test Engineering Division at Edwards, where he served as a test pilot and project manager testing the F-102A and F-106B.[2] He corrected several deficiencies in the F-106, saving the U.S. Air Force a great deal of money.[2]
Cooper logged more than 7,000 hours of flight time, with 4,000 hours in jet aircraft. He flew all types of commercial and general aviation airplanes and helicopters.
Definitely not a bubba. Definitely not a teenage kid, hanging out with his buddies at the pool.
On a side note:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FnjBDyeb4Dc/UsoBRfoaIaI/AAAAAAAAhPc/NTnPySscPJ8/s1600/air+force+balloon.jpg
Edgar Mitchell isn't the only one who has spoken about this sort of thing:
Gordon Cooper had several sightings of unknown aircraft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITmIPc67Guc
The man was nothing short of an absolute badass.
http://www.space.com/24520-gordon-cooper.html
Yup, seen it. The pilots at time thought they were some sort of Russian super jet and scared the hell out of the US mil. Meanwhile, Russian pilots experienced the same thing and were convinced they were some sort of US super weapon. They were seen regularly, confirmed by ground radar, and seen by multiple highly credible witnesses. One can't ignore all possible explanations and possible factors from weather phenomena to human fallibility etc, but there's simply too many events where none of the obvious explanations can or will cover it, and one is left with but one obvious conclusion.
They do not exist to the satisfaction of science, nor should they. They do exist to the satisfaction of some highly legit groups and intelligent people however.
I only hope I live long enough that the real answer is known. It's fascinated me my entire life and I'm tough to convince to say the least.
Yup, seen it. The pilots at time thought they were some sort of Russian super jet and scared the hell out of the US mil. Meanwhile, Russian pilots experienced the same thing and were convinced they were some sort of US super weapon. They were seen regularly, confirmed by ground radar, and seen by multiple highly credible witnesses. One can't ignore all possible explanations and possible factors from weather phenomena to human fallibility etc, but there's simply too many events where none of the obvious explanations can or will cover it, and one is left with but one obvious conclusion.
They do not exist to the satisfaction of science, nor should they. They do exist to the satisfaction of some highly legit groups and intelligent people however.
I only hope I live long enough that the real answer is known. It's fascinated me my entire life and I'm tough to convince to say the least.
Sounds like fodder for a good book.
Imagine if for "whatever reason" of necessity we found out that YES they have been coming here and the US government had confirmed evidence since 1952. What would society and the world become if some of that evidence was made known and verified.
Of course we still wouldn't know everything and there would actually be more questions than answers but I'd love to see a realistic "what if" to that scenario.
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 17:02
Yup, seen it. The pilots at time thought they were some sort of Russian super jet and scared the hell out of the US mil. Meanwhile, Russian pilots experienced the same thing and were convinced they were some sort of US super weapon. They were seen regularly, confirmed by ground radar, and seen by multiple highly credible witnesses. One can't ignore all possible explanations and possible factors from weather phenomena to human fallibility etc, but there's simply too many events where none of the obvious explanations can or will cover it, and one is left with but one obvious conclusion.
They do not exist to the satisfaction of science, nor should they. They do exist to the satisfaction of some highly legit groups and intelligent people however.
I only hope I live long enough that the real answer is known. It's fascinated me my entire life and I'm tough to convince to say the least.
Bolded for awesomeness.
I'm in the same boat. Always thought it was pretty neat.
I had some interesting conversations with a SONAR operator, who witnessed some very "peculiar" phenomena, whilst in his official capacity. Also had some interesting conversations with some LEOs about the subject.
One thing that I think can be stated is that there are a lot of extremely credible people that have experienced "interesting" things, but wouldn't be caught dead disclosing these experiences publicly.
Sounds like fodder for a good book.
Imagine if for "whatever reason" of necessity we found out that YES they have been coming here and the US government had confirmed evidence since 1952. What would society and the world become if some of that evidence was made known and verified.
Of course we still wouldn't know everything and there would actually be more questions than answers but I'd love to see a realistic "what if" to that scenario.
While I can't state what, exactly, these objects may or may not be, I don't think any official government agency can either.
My personal opinion is that there's no upside to disclosing any Intelligence that has been collected in the last 75 years.
Official U.S. GOV'T disclosure would go as follows:
"We have collected visual evidence of the existence of unknown aerial phenomenon. We also have collected trace evidence. These objects have absolute aerial superiority and violate the laws of physics as is commonly understood. We are completely befuddled as to an explanation for the nature of these objects, and are utterly helpless against any threat they may beholden."
I would bet my paycheck that the "Government" has not a ****ing clue what to make of any of it.
3 members of my family are/were commercial pilots and a 4th was a crew chief
my dad and uncle were both jet fighter pilots and also did training in the AF and was a test pilot in the late 40s and early 50s :) they both got out shortly after the Korean war ended
and of course then the associated friends in the same career etc... grow up around those folks was fun talk about adrenalin junkies and great stories :)
when aircraft started to break the speed of sound it seems some sightings in this era if something was watching our tech IMHO makes sense they might make a more personal view than just spying on us etc... :)
it seems sightings that could be real are/were often in relation to us doing things like breaking the sound barrier going to edge of space into space new weapon tech that broke new barriers etc...
often in a place no one on ground would be able to SEE the other object in question and radar and other forms of proof something is there would never be shown to public etc...
I also believe many things people think are real is just our stuff that is not out yet and being tested
but that is common knowledge with most of us for how many sightings can be explained and I think most of the sightings that are/could be real would never be picked up by regular folks on the ground with cell phones etc... but a few sightings I am sure slip past us and we do not ALWAYS have our phones ready to roll and most could get caught up in the moment and often the size of what we might see would really not show up on a phone ? so saying we all have phones where is the proof ? IMHO does not PROVE anything against them
throw in the idea that the gov had propaganda of creating UFO sitings for the public does that discredit things and throw in doubt etc... make people believe what they want if something credible ever happens it would be very easy to flood with misinformation and doubt
if we did not have global warming what excuse/reason would there be to control and manipulate our energy and use of it and make INSANE amount of money not to mention political and personal control !!!! yet somehow half the people on the planet believe in man made global warming and THAT something has to be done about it NOW !!!!
and yet as mentioned they tried this in the 70s with the ice age scare WOW how ironic around the same time as the gas/oil crisis of the 70s and NOW the same scientific community is tying to cover up that 70s scare as it never happened and they were instead focused on global warming back then yet many of us old enough to live through remember the truth quite well
same as the new spin that carter was actually the best president ever is being spun !
yet our planet if you believe the same science has gone through 5 glacial and interglacial periods so yeah our earth will change and continue to do so !
so do they exist and does the gov have proof ? I guess I could ask do you really think the gov if they have proof would ever say so and do you think they would not try to discredit and ruin anyone who did not go along with what they wanted ? and would they create scenarios and things to misdirect or do things for their own gain etc... and IMHO gov main thing to control you !
Boba Fett v2
08-18-15, 18:10
According to Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon' Aliens tried to save America from nuclear war.' Obviously the source is a rag, but Dr. Mitchell is well known for his outspoken views on this topic
Is he nuts, senile, telling the facts, or all the above? Before we dismiss however, it should be noted various ex astronauts are firm believers in aliens, often due to what they saw as pilots and as astronauts on Apollo missions they were told not to speak of during their careers. See interviews with later shuttle pilots also, such as Story Musgrave who does talk about some of the stuff he saw and his beliefs, etc.
'Aliens tried to save America from nuclear war': UFOs shot at missiles in White Sands to protect Earth, claims former astronaut
Aliens came to Earth to stop a nuclear war between America and Russia, according the bizarre claim of a former astronaut.
Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon, says high-ranking military officials witnessed alien ships during weapons tests throughout the 1940s.
The UFOs, he says, were spotted hovering over the world's first nuclear weapons test which took place on July 16, 1945 in the desolate White Sands deserts of New Mexico.
The Nasa veteran has regularly spoken about his belief in aliens ever since he landed on the surface of the moon during the Apollo 14 mission in 1971.
'White Sands was a testing ground for atomic weapons - and that's what the extra-terrestrials were interested in,' the 84-year-old Texan told Mirror Online.
They wanted to know about our military capabilities.
'My own experience talking to people has made it clear the ETs had been attempting to keep us from going to war and help create peace on Earth.'
Dr Mitchell says stories from people who manned missile bases during the 20th Century back up his claims.
Cont:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3195416/Aliens-tried-save-America-nuclear-war-UFOs-shot-missiles-White-Sands-protect-Earth-claims-former-astronaut.html
I believe it all. Watch Jupiter Ascending.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Outlander Systems
08-18-15, 19:07
http://youtu.be/Luss2aRgydg
Leaveammoforme
08-18-15, 19:48
Filmed this last Thursday. HD video that should put all the doubters to rest. They were checking out power lines and my boat. When they noticed I was filming they blasted off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FHBEDkhwOg
Great thread Will. I absolutely agree with you that the Rendelsham Forrest incident is one of the most fascinating and credible stories of a UFO encounter.
Me personally, I believe in UFO's in the strictest sense of the term, Unidentified Flying Object. So for me UFO does not automatically equal extraterrestrial spaceship. I'm sure quite a few sightings are some sort of DoD Black Project but there are some that seem to defy all reasonable explanation.
I love when people claim that we have been reverse engineering alien tech since the 50's and that we have actual functioning alien craft that we can operate and that are capable of defying the laws of physics as we know them.
My counter argument to that is, If it is the case that we have vehicles that are capable of violating the sovereign airspace of a nation to the point that it's air defenses are rendered completely useless why is the F-22 Raptor our top of the line air superiority fighter?
I guess until they make first contact or I have my own close encounter I'll just have to be a skeptic
34676
I will admit that that stupid Ancient Aliens show with their bunk theories is a guilty pleasure of mine...:p
MountainRaven
08-18-15, 20:38
Sounds like fodder for a good book.
Imagine if for "whatever reason" of necessity we found out that YES they have been coming here and the US government had confirmed evidence since 1952. What would society and the world become if some of that evidence was made known and verified.
Of course we still wouldn't know everything and there would actually be more questions than answers but I'd love to see a realistic "what if" to that scenario.
I believe that the History Channel had a show where they interviewed sociologists and the like with the "What if?" scenario being that aliens suddenly show up in the Kuiper Belt and transmit to us: "People of Earth: You are not alone. We are coming." And the things that might occur over the days or weeks it takes these hypothetical aliens to traverse from outside the orbit of Pluto to actually touching down on earth.
Great thread Will. I absolutely agree with you that the Rendelsham Forrest incident is one of the most fascinating and credible stories of a UFO encounter.
Me personally, I believe in UFO's in the strictest sense of the term, Unidentified Flying Object. So for me UFO does not automatically equal extraterrestrial spaceship. I'm sure quite a few sightings are some sort of DoD Black Project but there are some that seem to defy all reasonable explanation.
I love when people claim that we have been reverse engineering alien tech since the 50's and that we have actual functioning alien craft that we can operate and that are capable of defying the laws of physics as we know them.
My counter argument to that is, If it is the case that we have vehicles that are capable of violating the sovereign airspace of a nation to the point that it's air defenses are rendered completely useless why is the F-22 Raptor our top of the line air superiority fighter?
I guess until they make first contact or I have my own close encounter I'll just have to be a skeptic
34676
I will admit that that stupid Ancient Aliens show with their bunk theories is a guilty pleasure of mine...[emoji14]
Don't make me cue crazy bird hair guy... I'll do it.
Don't make me cue crazy bird hair guy... I'll do it.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/18/1b6eefde848d255b9f27826ef8d5e74e.jpg
Outlander Systems
08-20-15, 06:29
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-17/warp-speed-a-possibility-astrophysicist-says/6702034
Warp speed space travel a possibility thanks to Einstein's theory of relativity, astrophysicist says
I don't understand why people are so thick?
I mean you literally have astronauts telling you aliens exist...?? And that's not enough for you to atleast consider it?
I don't understand why people are so thick?
I mean you literally have astronauts telling you aliens exist...?? And that's not enough for you to atleast consider it?
They saw bright lights IN the Apollo ship as well, had no idea what they were, later discovered it was cosmic rays going through their ship and brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays
Several Apollo astronauts reported seeing light flashes, although the precise biological mechanisms responsible are unclear. This phenomenon has been replicated on Earth by scientists at various institutions.
Steyr.. Do me a favor.. Since I know you will actually do it because we have conversed before..
Please watch "aliens on the moon".. It's on Netflix... It has some very relevant info I think you would appreciate brother.
Steyr.. Do me a favor.. Since I know you will actually do it because we have conversed before..
Please watch "aliens on the moon".. It's on Netflix... It has some very relevant info I think you would appreciate brother.
Must be available on streaming only and I don't have a streaming plan.
I'm not the type to completely rule out things for which there is no evidence for exclusion. But I do think if there was seriously compelling evidence for the existence of aliens, alien spacecraft or alien contact it would be all over the news...forever...and we wouldn't need to watch a History channel show or rent a documentary to find out about it.
Such a story, if it existed, would be bigger than Watergate, the 9-11 terrorist attack and Hillary Clinton's emails combined. And if the government had possession of such "compelling evidence" and they wanted to keep it secret, I'm pretty sure they could prevent the release of a documentary. I also wonder about the governments ability to maintain internal secrecy if such evidence existed, this is the same government that couldn't conceal a blowjob.
Now if Eric Snowden released a bunch of ET pictures and secret files about suppressed alien artifacts on the moon, then I'd have to seriously consider the viability of the information. And of course it would be the largest news story in all of history.
PatrioticDisorder
08-21-15, 21:34
Steyr.. Do me a favor.. Since I know you will actually do it because we have conversed before..
Please watch "aliens on the moon".. It's on Netflix... It has some very relevant info I think you would appreciate brother.
I watched it out of sheer curiousity, the body "Mona Lisa" looked pretty creepy, however when I went to YouTube the video of the alleged "Apollo 20" mission, seems they had earthly gravity., so based on just that I'm 99.999% it's a hoax... Now the other visual anomalies alleged to have been found on the surface of the moon, I have no idea.
I do accounts like this carry some weight and make you wonder:
http://youtu.be/XlkV1ybBnHI
Also numerous weird sightings in space, some picked up on live feed cameras, one episode a U.S. female astronaut forgot she was being recorded, another with an Italian female astronaut that sounded like she'd just witnessed a UFO up close and shit her pants. Those types of weird sightings are not easily explained.
Thanks for taking the time to check it out.. I also agree the "body" seemed very suspicious.. But the rest is pretty intriguing...
the attack was over a video :)
They saw bright lights IN the Apollo ship as well, had no idea what they were, later discovered it was cosmic rays going through their ship and brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_threat_from_cosmic_rays
Several Apollo astronauts reported seeing light flashes, although the precise biological mechanisms responsible are unclear. This phenomenon has been replicated on Earth by scientists at various institutions.
I'm sure that life exists outside of our pale blue dot--but I don't think they're visiting us or performing experiments on rednecks. I believe that the "legitimate" UFO sightings (meaning, excluding ones that are likely a combination of atmospheric conditions and pareidolia) are man-made experimental craft and drones. I have seen a couple of "UFOs" myself, but both were on bigassed desert military bases. Years later, I determined one was a precursor to the X47B. It could do "impossible" things because there wasn't a pilot inside being subjected to the G's.
Hell, there are so many classified aircraft buried in Nevada that some have even been inadvertently discovered (http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2013/01/top-secret-aircraft-classified-stealth-burial-grounds-of-area-51/) while digging for another. As far as fooling pilots, radar operators, and astronauts--well, not all of them are going to be read into a specific program. Something showing up and then falling off radar could just be a new countermeasure.
Of course, it's not beyond test pilots to dick with other pilots either. Jack Woolams used to sometimes fly experimental jets wearing a gorilla costume, derby hat, with a cigar stuck in his mouth. He'd roll up to Mustang pilots, pace them, give them a wave and take off screaming. Allegedly some pilots were given counseling for stress after reporting they saw, "a gorilla flying a plane without a propeller". If true, the bosses in that chain of command might have legitimately thought these pilots had completely cracked...
What "aliens" look like and how they behave is influenced by pop culture. We didn't get the now-classic "grey alien" look until Whitley Strieber wrote the book Communion (a memoir of his abduction experiences) and it appeared on the cover. Prior to that they were Nordic looking tall blonde dudes. Prior to that they were little green men as depicted in comics and movies. Prior to that they were devils and witches--you get the idea.
A interstellar travelling species would also have no reason for collusion with an Earthly government. At least not any more than the little boy next door needs to strike a deal with the ant queen before he burns off all the workers with a magnifying glass. There's also no evidence we gained any "secret alien technology" at any point in our collective histories. Our technological development, while extremely fast in the last 100 years especially, doesn't skip any steps. If we received some kind of extraterrestrial technology, assuming we could even understand it in the first place, we'd go from A-M. As it stands, there's a very clear A-B-C-D relationship in our technology. When people cite ancient civilizations, they assume that we're somehow smarter than they are. Well, people have been people for around 100k years... what we have is the benefit of knowledge and the ability to effectively store it and nothing more. Take a little kid from ancient Egypt, put him in school, and he'll be just as good (or just as mediocre, depending on the school) as any other kid.
Ultimately I always end up pondering this quote by Arthur C. Clarke:
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-15, 01:21
It's late and this thread is long. I've posted on this topic before so I'll just say that I don't believe anything that our government says and the older I get the more the whole ancient astronaut theory sounds more plausible than the other explanations. Though the zoo hypothesis and ant theory have their place.
But let's not forget one of the single greatest misinformation campaigns ever utilized by our .gov was to let everyone think what they were seeing/hearing in the sky was little green men and not classified aircraft conducting espionage.
Ultimately I always end up pondering this quote by Arthur C. Clarke:
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."
That's about where I usually find myself. But I find the latter less terrifying. Currently I'm more afraid of "us" than "them", even if we don't know who "they" are or if "they" even exist.
QuickStrike
08-22-15, 14:32
Didnt wikileaks have some stuff on UFO's?
I agree with them spending the time and resources to travel through space just to teach us "nuclear = bad" is extremely unlikely.
I have recently heard other hypothesis where they might be inter-dimensional though.
Thoughts?
Didnt wikileaks have some stuff on UFO's?
I agree with them spending the time and resources to travel through space just to teach us "nuclear = bad" is extremely unlikely.
I have recently heard other hypothesis where they might be inter-dimensional though.
Thoughts?
Yes. From an internal NSA doc for example:
“As the F-4 approached a range of 25 nautical miles it lost all instrumentation and communications. When the F-4 turned away from the object and apparently was no longer a threat to it, the aircraft regained all instrumentation and communications. Another brightly lighted object came out of the original object. The second object headed straight toward the F4. ”
https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/ufo/us_gov_iran_case.pdf
that story has gotten a bit exaggerated over time to :) parts did happen but was not all the time and the derby hat and cigar was part of the pilots get up or whatever you want to call it
now the question is when those test pilots saw stuff !!!! like when a X wing pilot sees something in testing then you have to ask what did he see ?
same thing when astronauts see things ?
Of course, it's not beyond test pilots to dick with other pilots either. Jack Woolams used to sometimes fly experimental jets wearing a gorilla costume, derby hat, with a cigar stuck in his mouth. He'd roll up to Mustang pilots, pace them, give them a wave and take off screaming. Allegedly some pilots were given counseling for stress after reporting they saw, "a gorilla flying a plane without a propeller". If true, the bosses in that chain of command might have legitimately thought these pilots had completely cracked...
Outlander Systems
08-22-15, 17:35
One of the best films on the subject of Government/UFOs is on Netflix now.
"Mirage Men"
It is out****ingstanding.
There has always been a COINTEL angle to this shit.
http://youtu.be/6naKTTuBq14
Outlander Systems
08-22-15, 17:49
What "aliens" look like and how they behave is influenced by pop culture. We didn't get the now-classic "grey alien" look until Whitley Strieber wrote the book Communion (a memoir of his abduction experiences) and it appeared on the cover. Prior to that they were Nordic looking tall blonde dudes. Prior to that they were little green men as depicted in comics and movies. Prior to that they were devils and witches--you get the idea.
Well, that depends on how far down the rabbit-hole, or how deep into the world of woo-woo you want to get...
http://www.vice.com/read/magickal-stories-lam
Eventually Crowley made contact with an entity known as Lam and drew its portrait...This was around 1917. While there are possibly ancient accounts of extra-terrestrial visitations in other parts of the world, this was one of the first-known Grays to have popped into Western consciousness, although Crowley didn’t explicitly say this.
http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/11e090bb30c59cb8960450f2fd9b0768.jpg
Throw in a dash of Jack Parsons trying to summon the Antichrist in 1946 with L. Ron Hubbard, and you have you a trip to downtown Wootown:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/bfm07.htm
On 4 January 1946, Jack Parsons began a series of elaborate mystic
_______________
13. Rogers, op. cit.
14. Parsons file, O.T.O. archives, New York
15. Aleister Crowley, The Book of the Law
119
rituals, known as the 'Babalon Working', which he hoped would lead to the invocation of a scarlet woman whose destiny was to be mother to the moonchild. For the benefit of future magicians, he kept a detailed, day-by-day account in a manuscript be called the 'Book of Babalon'.
The money shot:
John Whiteside Parsons (born Marvel Whiteside Parsons;[nb 1] October 2, 1914 – June 17, 1952), better known as Jack Parsons, was an American rocket engineer and rocket propulsion researcher, chemist, inventor, businessman, writer, and Thelemite occultist. Parsons was associated with the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), and was one of the principal founders of both the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and the Aerojet Engineering Corporation. He invented the first castable, composite solid rocket propellant,[1] and pioneered the advancement of both liquid-fuel and solid-fuel rockets.
Did we become ats.com? Lol
Outlander Systems
08-22-15, 19:46
Did we become ats.com? Lol
I became aware of ATS over a "conspiracy theory" surrounding a project which I had immense personal involvement in. Long and short of it, a buddy of mine tipped me off that there was a crazy conspiracy theory pertaining to said project. I signed up to set the record straight, and explain to people that:
They were as wrong as two boys ****ing.
Correlation does not imply causation.
The leaps of faith being taken were breathtaking in their stupidity.
Dude, the theories were absolutely insane, and I thought my buddy was yanking my chain, until he informed me that it was floating around on the YouTwitFace-osphere.. I dropped a science bomb on some asses, with legitimate data backing up what I was saying.
After that, I was repeatedly told that I obviously "didn't have the security clearance necessary" to understand the operation's breadth.
My experience with those clowns reinforced every negative stereotype I had for conspiracies and conspiracy theorists.
If you think the signal to noise ratio is high at TOS, head over to any conspiracy/whackadoodle website.
The UFO topic is a total freak show. Rather than a turd, it's more like diarrhea in the punch bowl.
While I think the story itself has legs, the waters are far too muddy to get to any concrete proof of anything. Between all the disinformation that's been disseminated, and the zealotry of TINFOILFOR, the topic is a rodeo show of whack jobs, professional con-artists, and the hopelessly gullible.
I became aware of ATS over a "conspiracy theory" surrounding a project which I had immense personal involvement in. Long and short of it, a buddy of mine tipped me off that there was a crazy conspiracy theory around said project. I signed up to set the record straight, and explain to people that:
They were as wrong as two boys ****ing. Correlation does not imply causation.
Dude, the theories were absolutely insane, and I thought my buddy was yanking my chain, until he informed me that it was floating around on the YouTwitFace-osphere.. I dropped a science bomb on some asses, with legitimate data backing up what I was saying.
After that, I was repeatedly told that I obviously "didn't have the security clearance necessary" to understand the operation's breadth.
My experience with those clowns reinforced every negative stereotype I had for conspiracies and conspiracy theorists.
If you think the signal to noise ratio is high at TOS, head over to any conspiracy/whackadoodle website.
The UFO topic is a total freak show. Rather than a turd, it's more like diarrhea in the punch bowl.
While I think the story itself has legs, the waters are far too muddy to get to any concrete proof of anything.
Epic. Pm me a link if you can. I could use a good laugh. My reading on that site ended following an effort by members to organize a 1000 person March on groom lake.
now the question is when those test pilots saw stuff !!!! like when a X wing pilot sees something in testing then you have to ask what did he see ?
same thing when astronauts see things ?
It doesn't make sense that testing pilots and astronauts would be read into every program. Not to mention programs from another nation... Actually, in testing some devices, it's probably better that they don't know what to look for. Fly something by people trained to identify flying craft and see if anyone notices--and if they notice, what do they say about it?
I think that one is doctored. Lovell did ask about the current position of the booster and CAPCOM simply gave it to him. He didn't go into further detail because he didn't want to be the guy who reported a UFO.
I've heard it live also, on the History channel show.
Business_Casual
08-23-15, 06:47
I've heard it live also, on the History channel show.
Oh, the History Channel! We are indeed fortunate to have such valid information as that channel.
Oh, the History Channel! We are indeed fortunate to have such valid information as that channel.
It's something. Let's check the NASA website.
Moose-Knuckle
08-24-15, 00:16
I can't find the thread now, but a few years back we had a thread about declassified documents pertaining to UFO activity at nuke sites throughout the Cold War. The Brits have also declassified decades of their UFO files as well.
Haha
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/stars-wars-spaceship-mars-nasa-6312452
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