View Full Version : If your friend had a traumatic brain injury - would you tell the Docs his Secrets?
Eurodriver
08-17-15, 10:55
A buddy of mine was run over on his Harley. He wasn't wearing a helmet. He has a pretty unique personality and very few friends and no family. The Docs have contacted me to get a good grasp of his personality before the accident to compare it to the present.
How much would you share to help them help your friend vs betraying his confidence?
For example. They asked about his relationships with women. I know that in the 8 years I've known him he's never once had a girlfriend, but frequently partakes in "pay for play". This info is useful because it shows his unwillingness to form close bonds despite him enjoying sex (he isn't gay, for example)
Would that be something you'd share? Drug use? Criminal activity? It's all protected by HIPAA but Where do you draw the line?
Enough information that the doctors can adequately diagnose his condition but not enough detail that could potentially jeopardize your friendship.
For example: I see nothing wrong with telling the doctors that he hasn't maintained any significant relationships with girls within the timeframe that you've known him; however, he does occasionally hook up for a one night stand.
Same with the drug use & criminal activity. You can indicate that your friend is by no means a saint, but I would leave out the dirty details.
SomeOtherGuy
08-17-15, 11:08
Good advice from Ryno. I don't put much faith in HIPAA protections. Balance helping the doctors with your friend's privacy.
No way would I participate in that, certainly not without telling the guy. I would tell the doctors that if they wanted me to participate in a post-injury interview and evaluation of my friend, set it up so that he and I could be there together. I wouldn't go behind his back.
HIPAA privacy rules don't apply here. That's an obligation incurred by health care organizations, not buddies.
.
crusader377
08-17-15, 11:59
I would tell the doctors that he is a great friend who has a unique personality. On the women issue, I would say that he is straight but hasn't been in any long term relationships but has had several short term relationships. No need to share any other details on that.
The older I get the less I count on professionalism of people. End of the day in 2015 America the number of people who behave with a professional or personal code is getting increasingly rare.
I don't have many friends. Very, very few.
But I love them too much to let anything be used against them. Besides a lot of all that is nobody's business.
People come and go, but someone you love (no homo), man that's too rare to mess up.
The older I get the less I count on professionalism of people. End of the day in 2015 America the number of people who behave with a professional or personal code is getting increasingly rare.
Not sure where professionalism fits into this discussion, but in my business I find professionalism to be quite common.
crusader377
08-17-15, 12:17
Not sure where professionalism fits into this discussion, but in my business I find professionalism to be quite common.
Hitting more on privacy rules regarding doctors. I simply wouldn't mention things about a friend that don't need to be said that may cause people to hold a certain view about him or his character.
No way would I participate in that, certainly not without telling the guy. I would tell the doctors that if they wanted me to participate in a post-injury interview and evaluation of my friend, set it up so that he and I could be there together. I wouldn't go behind his back.
HIPAA privacy rules don't apply here. That's an obligation incurred by health care organizations, not buddies.
.
I don't know about you, but to me this sounds very strange. If I were Euro, I'd simply tell them that his pre-injury personality can be encapsulated by the fact that he was riding a motorcycle...without a helmet.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-17-15, 12:47
Out of curiosity, is your friend far enough down the recovery road that you can tell a difference? I assume that if they are asking for your assistance that he is in good enough shape that there is a question as to what he was like pre-accident. Whatever the case, I hope he gets back to his monk-like whoring soon.
I think motorcycles are cool. My cousin was killed on one and my dad was blind in one eye from a closed head injury from his late teens. Pretty much verboten in my family.
Ask you self what you would want him to do roles reversed.
Sorry about your friend. That sucks.
Flankenstein
08-17-15, 13:48
Enough information that the doctors can adequately diagnose his condition but not enough detail that could potentially jeopardize your friendship.
For example: I see nothing wrong with telling the doctors that he hasn't maintained any significant relationships with girls within the timeframe that you've known him; however, he does occasionally hook up for a one night stand.
Same with the drug use & criminal activity. You can indicate that your friend is by no means a saint, but I would leave out the dirty details.
Ryno's got this. Bare minimum to help. Why would you even think of saying more?
I would tell the doctors that he is a great friend who has a unique personality. On the women issue, I would say that he is straight but hasn't been in any long term relationships but has had several short term relationships. No need to share any other details on that.
The older I get the less I count on professionalism of people. End of the day in 2015 America the number of people who behave with a professional or personal code is getting increasingly rare.
This
The docs needs to compare pre/post injury personality to decide what treatments may work.
Would that be something you'd share? Drug use? Criminal activity? It's all protected by HIPAA but Where do you draw the line?
Hard call. Gonna have to decide is this info "good for my friend and his recovery" or "good for the doctor and case file."
I would answer most questions with "How is this relevant to his recovery?"
Hard call. Gonna have to decide is this info "good for my friend and his recovery" or "good for the doctor and case file."
I would answer most questions with "How is this relevant to his recovery?"
What an odd comment. What would be the point of "good for the doctor and his case file"? How is "good for his case file" different from "good for my friend"? What is it that you think the doctor has to gain from not doing his best for the guy?
wildcard600
08-17-15, 17:15
Dont know about the doctors request but if you care about your friend i would buy him a helmet and some gear.
What an odd comment. What would be the point of "good for the doctor and his case file"? How is "good for his case file" different from "good for my friend"? What is it that you think the doctor has to gain from not doing his best for the guy?
Well for example if it is a VA doctor, they have demonstrated in the past that they don't always act in the patients best interest. I've seen a few examples in my personal life where the doctor didn't have the patients best interest in mind, some of them resulting in premature death. Generally these have been the exceptions rather than the rule, but if you are the exception the general rule doesn't matter.
I had a friend that did the same thing.... in Cuba of all places. The only time, to my knowledge, that anyone asked about his previous personality was to get a grasp on just how much of his brain was screwed up. Like was it all injury, or maybe heavy drinking or whatever. He was basically an instant vegetable aside from physical abilities and eventually died.
But at the end of the day... it's like Sensei says.... the fact he rode with no helmet, and maybe you can just say he liked to chase the ladies but not settle down... that should give them the picture. Unless you have met him again, and are having conversations, then it's no telling what he might be doing or saying. My friend couldn't have a conversation but would on occasion blurt out phrases often in anger... and I'm telling you.. .that could be anything.
Supposedly my friend had some of the best doctors in the county look at him and I never heard anyone say, if we just knew what he used to be like we might be able to do something... but like I say.. he was too far gone.
They may be trying to figure a base line and I don't think you need to tell any secrets to help them develop that. I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure they are going to want to figure are things staying steady, getting worse, getting better. Someone with a colorful personality might make that more difficult. It also plays into which segment of the hospital he might have to be moved to.... if he's bad off, I'm sorry to tell you, but before too long, no one is going to want him and many won't even be able to care for him even if they do want him. It all depends on what the injury has done to him.
It still gives me the creeps to think what happened to my friend after the accident. It was like a very dark version of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest meets Sybil on steroids.
So no, I can't imagine where 'secrets' are important to be told unless he so far along in recovery and if that were the case why not just ask him?
Eurodriver
08-17-15, 17:51
The comments here have been very helpful, and enlightening. I actually expected the resident MDs to tell me to tell the Docs whatever they want to hear. It's interesting to see somewhat the reverse.
They weren't necessarily asking for technical in depth "Give us his full life story" info, but some of what they asked required me to think on my feet to give them the information they needed without going into too much detail. The trouble for me is that I want what's best for him, but I'm not sure how much of what I know is BS fluff, inappropriate to tell them, or critically important.
The issue is that this guy is very unique and has a very interesting personality. He is very sarcastic, thorough, and stubborn and they are trying to weigh how much of the "speaks his mind chip on his shoulder" he has is due to growing up as a black hoodlum in Philly before doing 8 years in the Marine Corps and how much is due to his TBI.
He's mobile and can speak but he is still very slow. He actually writes 100% coherently and very well, but the part of his brain that is damaged is his speech/"filter". So he is slow to speak and when he does speak he says exactly what is on his mind. He actually wrote an interesting, well written, articulate note to his MDs on his white board talking about how he feels he's been kidnapped and they are ruining his life by keeping him in the hospital. It must be frustrating to be able to communicate your thoughts well in your head and be able to put them on paper but be unable to convey them in speech.
Dont know about the doctors request but if you care about your friend i would buy him a helmet and some gear.
Dude, that ship has sailed. The guy already has a TBI and should not leave his driveway on a tricycle much less test fate on another motorcycle.
Now, before everyone jumps down my ass for being an anti-bike cage monkey, nothing could be further from the truth. I have no problems with people riding their bike, with a helmet, and preferably on a closed track, highway, or road with minimal traffic. Hell, I have no problem if you want to temp fate in heavy traffic - it's no skin off my ass.
As for you guys who want to ride a crotch rocket like the flaming asshole that you are - keep up the good work. You know who you are - weaving in and out of traffic, passing between cars, going 30 over, and threatening the lives of everyone else on the road. I need you guys out there - my next SBR build depends on your stupid ass doing what comes natural. Saving your otherwise worthless life is good for 1 hour of critical care time each shift - like clockwork. That's why I softly whisper "cha ching" in your ear as the nurse pushes the Etomidate and Succinylcholine.
Dude, that ship has sailed. The guy already has a TBI and should not leave his driveway on a tricycle much less test fate on another motorcycle.
Now, before everyone jumps down my ass for being an anti-bike cage monkey, nothing could be further from the truth. I have no problems with people riding their bike, with a helmet, and preferably on a closed track, highway, or road with minimal traffic. Hell, I have no problem if you want to temp fate in heavy traffic - it's no skin off my ass.
As for you guys who want to ride a crotch rocket like the flaming asshole that you are - keep up the good work. You know who you are - weaving in and out of traffic, passing between cars, going 30 over, and threatening the lives of everyone else on the road. I need you guys out there - my next SBR build depends on your stupid ass doing what comes natural. Saving your otherwise worthless life is good for 1 hour of critical care time each shift - like clockwork. That's why I softly whisper "cha ching" in your ear as the nurse pushes the Etomidate and Succinylcholine.
While I fully understand the sentiment, I think the "cha-ching" comment is in poor taste.
While I fully understand the sentiment, I think the "cha-ching" comment is in poor taste.
Sarcasm...but I'll take your critique in the context of a guy who once described how he could predict the future of a dating relationship based on how many fingers he could fit in her vagina...as I recall...several years ago. ;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-128534.html
Sarcasm...but I'll take your critique in the context of a guy who once described how he could predict the future of a dating relationship based on how many fingers he could fit in her vagina...as I recall...several years ago. ;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-128534.html
Ohhh, I remember that thread. We used have a lot of fun back then. Good times, good times...
Eurodriver
08-17-15, 19:52
Sarcasm...but I'll take your critique in the context of a guy who once described how he could predict the future of a dating relationship based on how many fingers he could fit in her vagina...as I recall...several years ago. ;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-128534.html
Cha ching!
By far the funniest post I've ever read on M4C. Mainly because I know Steyr can take it. ;)
For the record, my buddy was on a Harley electraglide. Not the type of dude to weave in and out doing a wheelie and not the type of bike either.
In fact, when I rode, I was indeed that guy doing a stand up wheelie on the interstate running from the police at least I was in full kit, and I sold my bike when I realized I wasn't mature enough to own one. Unfortunately for my buddy, his only mistake happened to be a big one: leaving his helmet in his trunk.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-17-15, 19:55
Sarcasm...but I'll take your critique in the context of a guy who once described how he could predict the future of a dating relationship based on how many fingers he could hit in her vagina...as I recall...several years ago. ;)
Actually, it's the shocker that's the tell...
Ohhh, I remember that thread. We used have a lot of fun back then. Good times, good times...
I have no idea how it survived so long. It's Internet gold if you need a few laughs after a long day.
Oh good, now we're back on topic.
Cha ching!
By far the funniest post I've ever read on M4C. Mainly because I know Steyr can take it. ;)
For the record, my buddy was on a Harley electraglide. Not the type of dude to weave in and out doing a wheelie and not the type of bike either.
In fact, when I rode, I was indeed that guy doing a stand up wheelie on the interstate running from the police at least I was in full kit, and I sold my bike when I realized I wasn't mature enough to own one. Unfortunately for my buddy, his only mistake happened to be a big one: leaving his helmet in his trunk.
On a more serious note, it sounds like your friend sustained an injury to the frontal cortex which is the area of the brain involved in judgement; it's the filter that you mentioned. You might recall that Garry Busey had a similar injury pattern after wrecking a bike without a helmet. Unfortunately, it sounds like his frontal cortex was not all that organized before his accident given his predilection for high risk activity. While it may be interesting to know his pre-accident function, I'm more interested in knowing if your friend has sustained prior head injuries. For example, was he involved in an IED blast while in the Corps? If yes, then it explains a lot.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-17-15, 21:11
On a more serious note, it sounds like your friend sustained an injury to the frontal cortex which is the area of the brain involved in judgement; it's the filter that you mentioned. You might recall that Garry Busey had a similar injury pattern after wrecking a bike without a helmet. Unfortunately, it sounds like his frontal cortex was not all that organized before his accident given his predilection for high risk activity. While it may be interesting to know his pre-accident function, I'm more interested in knowing if your friend has sustained prior head injuries. For example, was he involved in an IED blast while in the Corps? If yes, then it explains a lot.
But it sounds like he is communicating differently between written and spoken? Is that a language processing thing?
Whatever it is, I hope your buddy the best recovery.
This thread actually reminded me of a former coworker of mine. He was a younger kid (early twenties at the time of his accident) and was well liked by many. He was in an accident where he rolled his truck & was ejected from the vehicle. He suffered major head trauma in the accident.
Numerous people held fund raising benefits for him at work while he was recovering from the crash. After several months of rehab, he returned to work, but was a changed man. He became a very hot headed & somewhat irritable person. He'd spout his mouth off at anyone without thinking before he spoke. He offended a lot of people that helped organize his benefits. We were told that his anger issue was a direct result of the injures he sustained in the accident.
His mouth kept getting him in trouble and ultimately, a few years later he was let go.
Weird how bumping your head can change your personality. It kinda reminded me of Phineas Gage's situation, just less extreme.
Sarcasm...but I'll take your critique in the context of a guy who once described how he could predict the future of a dating relationship based on how many fingers he could fit in her vagina...as I recall...several years ago. ;)
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-128534.html
OK, I can accept sarcasm, wasn't sure. My issue comes from typically holding doctors in high regard. Hope that came through.
As for the vagina size comments. I still stand by every thing I stated, I'm mostly impressed by your recall.
But it sounds like he is communicating differently between written and spoken? Is that a language processing thing?
Whatever it is, I hope your buddy the best recovery.
Hard to tell as it is very possible that multiple areas of the brain could be injured. However, the area for understanding speech is located in the temporal lobes on the side of the brain. People with damage to this area can speak, but the words don't make sense.
OK, I can accept sarcasm, wasn't sure. My issue comes from typically holding doctors in high regard. Hope that came through.
As for the vagina size comments. I still stand by every thing I stated, I'm mostly impressed by your recall.
The house of medicine's professional reputation has been in a free fall for some time now. The reasons are multi-factorial such as selling out to big pharma, prescription drug epidemic, docs screwing their patients, docs murdering people, etc. Fortunately, we have a long way to go before we surpass lawyers, politicians, and used care salesmen as the most hated profession in America. Until then, I plan to re-read that post on vagina sizes whenever I need a chuckle and I'm all out of weed. ;) (more sarcasm)
The house of medicine's professional reputation has been in a free fall for some time now. The reasons are multi-factorial such as selling out to big pharma, prescription drug epidemic, docs screwing their patients, docs murdering people, etc. Fortunately, we have a long way to go before we surpass lawyers, politicians, and used care salesmen as the most hated profession in America. Until then, I plan to re-read that post on vagina sizes whenever I need a chuckle and I'm all out of weed. ;) (more sarcasm)
As with the LEO community there are some issues. But as with the LEO community I know too many "good guys" personally to form a blanket negative opinion of doctors. This includes you specifically which is why I was caught off guard by the comment, which I now understand was sarcasm. You and I disagree on a great many topics but I'm assume you are a good doctor and if somebody was in serious trouble I'm assuming you'd pull out all the stops as needed to do the right thing.
I don't make that assumption about all doctors, but thankfully it is still the assumption I make about most of them. When we arrive at the time doctors are no better than lawyers, politicians and car salesmen, I'm not sure how long I'd want to voluntarily participate in that society.
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