View Full Version : Transporting ammunition in quantity across state lines
A long time friend is relocating from here in coastal South Carolina to Texas next month. The moving company will not transport ammunition. He wants to rent a Penske truck and wants to hire my brother to drive it. My brother has a CDL and doesn't want to take a chance on losing it. We are talking about approximately 2,500 lbs of loaded ammunition and 2,000 pounds of reloading components including powder and primers. The balance of the 8,000 lb load will be tools and equipment. This guy has it bad! No firearms will be in the van. I know through google searches that doing this in a commercial vehicle is a no-no but but an individual isn't restricted. I guess my question is... How thin do you think the line is between a rented van with a hired driver and a commercial vehicle?
sevenhelmet
08-17-15, 19:09
Yikes. I would not want to be stopped or searched while driving that van.
Yikes. I would not want to be stopped or searched while driving that van.
Why do you think I am asking? It's not like he is shipping 2 pallets of 855. It is everything from 22LR to 50BMG.
SomeOtherGuy
08-17-15, 20:12
A long time friend is relocating from here in coastal South Carolina to Texas next month. The moving company will not transport ammunition. He wants to rent a Penske truck and wants to hire my brother to drive it. My brother has a CDL and doesn't want to take a chance on losing it. We are talking about approximately 2,500 lbs of loaded ammunition and 2,000 pounds of reloading components including powder and primers. The balance of the 8,000 lb load will be tools and equipment. This guy has it bad! No firearms will be in the van. I know through google searches that doing this in a commercial vehicle is a no-no but but an individual isn't restricted. I guess my question is... How thin do you think the line is between a rented van with a hired driver and a commercial vehicle?
That line is nonexistent, many moving companies and other shipping companies operate on that basis anyway. If I were your brother I would not do this, at least not for pay. Strictly 100% unpaid, nothing under the table or wink-wink, might be OK but I probably still wouldn't chance it.
I recently moved residences a long distance and had some ammo to move. Did it all in my private vehicles with me driving. It's legal and perfectly OK if you get pulled over, even if it might raise an eyebrow. Your friend should consider driving it himself and having hired-driver drive other stuff, or do it himself in multiple trips. Especially with the reputation of the states between SC and TX I would not want to do anything that isn't 100% legal and explainable.
Also, powder and primers are regulated hazmat, and there is a limit on how much powder you can have in one location before some regulation kicks in. I want to say 48lbs but am going from memory and probably wrong (I've never had more than a third of that so haven't paid close attention). BATFE, DOT and local fire codes may all have something to say. I would suggest researching and limiting the quantity moved to something solidly below any regulated amount.
This situation isn't a big deal. Contact your state's commercial vehicle enforcement folks (usually your DOT or state patrol) and ask your questions. The regs are pretty clear and they will be helpful.
For guns in a CMV, during your internet research did you find any actual statutory references prohibiting the practice?
SAAMI Powder Storage (http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf)
Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 lb.
(11.3 kg) in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of
Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.
Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding
100 lb. (45.4 kg); or not packaged in accordance with the regula-
tions cited in 11-3.4 shall be transported in accordance with the
U.S. Department of Transportation regulations for Division 1.3C pro-
pellant explosives.
Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in resi-
dences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.
SilverBullet432
08-17-15, 20:41
Youll most likely need a hazmat endorsement on your CDL. Vehicle will have to be placarded. As far as guns in a CMV go, i was pulled over one time (level I DOT inspection) trooper asked if i had any weapons and yeah I had my glock. Now the oil company might have frowned upon ne entering their location with a gun but they dont know... Shhh... Not taking any chances on safety at 2:30 am in the middle of BFE.
I found out one thing today... The BATF doesn't return phone calls.
I found out one thing today... The BATF doesn't return phone calls.
Contacting the ATF will not solve anything, but it will get you placed on a list...
Contacting the ATF will not solve anything, but it will get you placed on a list...
Like I am not on one already! I am not trying to solve anything. I am just trying to play by the rules. How do you know what the rules are if you don't ask the ref??
There's a lot of good replys here. But I would just throw it (in carbaord boxes) in a truck with some other house hold stuff and drive.
If he is getting compensated for driving this then he could be placed into the fed regs regarding commercial motor vehicle. Now if he is smart he will say he did this to help a buddy and is helping him drive his stuff to his new home. depending on the size of the truck GVWR gross vehicle weight rating he will have to pull into any weigh stations/ scales. now if he goes by he could be stopped for failure to comply with traffic control device, at least that's what its called here. Now if he gets stopped and they can place him in the books as acting as a business or being compensated for the drive he would run into all the hassle of operating a CMV and since he has a CDL I am guessing he is familiar with log books and all the other required paperwork.
Now basically he needs to do this for no compensation or he can be placed into the fed book and have a possible problem. He can get around the hazmat endorsement if he is not being compensated as well. with a rental vehicle like U Haul and Penske if you are moving your own belongings and not furthering a business you don't need a CDL or any endorsments even though if in business you would need the CDL. Basically he needs to say that they are moving a friends stuff to his new home and are not getting paid otherwise it opens a whole can of worms.
If your brother was paid and considered a For Hire Driver, there are a boat load of rules and regulations governing the vehicle and driver. A Motor Carrier Safety Officer would be better able to answer your questions than BATF.
http://ehs.okstate.edu/modules/dot/DOT_Class.htm#Other
No matter how you look at it, private, for hire, CDL... you are going to have a heavy load of hazardous materials on public roads and I doubt very seriously the government is going to say 'yeah, if it's your private stash, just roll on'. Also I think someone mentioned it, but tunnels and weigh stations. If you hit a weigh station they may stop you right there and tell you, you can't go through the tunnel on your route.
I was trying to imaging what the powder alone would look like and I came up with a visual of a typical dining room packed wall to wall and floor to ceiling.
The comments, including mine, thus far completely ignore the utter silliness of posting this on a public forum. Not only are you contemplating breaking several laws, you've also provided evidence that in all likelihood powder storage laws have already been broken. Not to mention the bad advice being given to violate the law.
The mods ought to shut this one down immediately.
The comments, including mine, thus far completely ignore the utter silliness of posting this on a public forum. Not only are you contemplating breaking several laws, you've also provided evidence that in all likelihood powder storage laws have already been broken. Not to mention the bad advice being given to violate the law.
The mods ought to shut this one down immediately.
Why would the mods shut this down? All I did was ask a legitimate question. I am not contemplating breaking any laws. Powder storage laws??? If you knew anything about reloading you would know that the weight of powder is very small part of assembled ammunition weight. My friend has given away or sold all of his powder but the hard to get stuff. His inventory is well below the maximum allowed. Most of the weight I am talking about is loaded ammunition and non volatile components. The last place I would ask how to skirt the law is an internet forum!!!! If you don't have anything helpful to add don't waste our bandwidth.
SomeOtherGuy
08-19-15, 21:23
The comments, including mine, thus far completely ignore the utter silliness of posting this on a public forum. Not only are you contemplating breaking several laws, you've also provided evidence that in all likelihood powder storage laws have already been broken. Not to mention the bad advice being given to violate the law.
The mods ought to shut this one down immediately.
I think that's assuming WAY too much. For starters, you could easily have a ton (2000lbs) of reloading supplies with less than 50lbs of powder and maybe a couple boxes of primers. Bullets weigh a lot, last forever, and don't take up much space. Powder eventually goes bad and for practical reasons you don't want too much at home. After moving this spring I currently own maybe 7lbs of reloading powder and probably at least 200lbs of component bullets.
Seems to me that the OP asked a serious and reasonable question and has received serious responses, even if you (and I) may disagree with some of them.
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