View Full Version : My PSA Journey
About 2 years ago, I began keeping a carbine in the trunk of my car just in case. It was a BCM 16" LW with an AP PRO. Solid setup. About a year later, my previously crime-free neighborhood began experiencing a rash of thefts and burglaries. I decided I could not bear to lose my BCM or any of my other top-drawer guns - along with all the accessories so carefully chosen and mounted on them - so I decided to replace my trunk gun with something less expensive.
Now I spent my last 5 years at my 150 Officer agency as Rangemaster / Armorer and have 3 Colt factory LE Armorer certs for M16/M4/Subguns, so i wasn't going to buy a DPMS and feel good about it. I wanted it all and I wanted it cheap. I know - I chuckled too.
I spent a lot of time researching and decided to roll the dice with Palmetto State. I bought everything on sale when free shipping was available, a piece at a time. I bought a blem lower for $129.00 and tore it down within an hour of receiving it. I couldn't find the blem and I also couldn't find anything else I didn't like. Snapped it on a Colt upper and shot it that way for a couple of months while I figured out which upper to go with. I was more than satisfied with the lower. Next, I bought a BCM BCG. 'Nuff said. For the upper I went with PSA's # 29607. 16" middy, 1/7, CL, 16" chrome lined, Mil-B-11595E, chrome moly vanadium steel barrel, 5.56 chamber, M4 ramps, F marked FSB, etc for $259.00 w/o BCG and CH. This checked all the boxes except "tier 1 manufacturer". Upper is an Anchor harvey forging. I went ahead and ordered a PSA Premium BCG for $79 with free shipping also - how bad could it be, right. I had the BCM in the safe also.
On close inspection, the upper looked quite good. Everything aligned. Feed ramps nicely mated up to upper cuts. BCG was most impressive - the staking was freaking medieval, proper extractor spring, black insert, O ring. Excellent tension on extractor and ejector. Clean machining.
I assembled this now all-PSA carbine and took it to the range with a good mix of M193, some green tip, and a crapload of Wolf steel case. If I were blindfolded and told this was a DD ( I own 1), Colt (2), or BCM (2), I would have had no reason to question it except, why the heavy / stagey trigger? Perfect function. 3.25 accuracy at 100 with a red dot and my 54 year old eyes off my range bag. 3 mag dumps as fast as I could manipulate the trigger and reload also went off without a hitch - zero malfs.
Over the summer, I took one 700 round weekend carbine course and pretty much shot this sub $500 carbine exclusively to vette it. I have yet to have a failure of any kind and I have mostly shot Wolf Polyformance. I also have not cleaned this weapon a single time after readying it for the range on day one.
I have never owned a $467 dollar AR before, but I do now AND I LIKE IT. Alot. Yes, it's a sample of 1. Yes, it could disintegrate tomorrow. But given its track record so far, I don't think I am in for any bad surprises as it goes into my Bocce Ball case in the trunk, awaiting a time I hope will never come.
Im glad to hear that about PSA, I just ordered a upper/lower parts kit and ALG trigger from them last night for a OEM Noveske SBR build. I have heard nothing but good about PSA.
I also went the PSA route for an inexpensive rifle. I do also have another carbine with a 6920 upper on a Spike lower. I too chose the premium BCG and although I have not taken it apart, it looks and operates fine so far. I also got the belmished complete lower. Where I differ is I got the midlenght Freedom melonite upper that looks and works great. I plan to put it through the paces. I have only had it about 2 weeks now and only have run a little over a 100 rounds through it. Gotta say that I am impressed with my PSA set up.
I have had great service from PSA. One of my keeper AR's has a PSA Premium carbine upper on it. It outshoots my LE6920 and my BCM carbine. It's had the best part of 3,000 rounds through it so far, and I wouldn't hesitate to grab it in a bug out situation. I've been impressed with all of my PSA purchases so far.
Over 3k rounds through this one
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0074_zpsc1ef45b3.jpg
MistWolf, is that the Freedom stainless?
I believe it's a Wilson barrel. I bought it long before they had "Freedom" or "PTAC".
A friend recently built a Freedom melonited rifle kit and it runs fine. We haven't put enough round through it to tune the buffer weight or give it the seal of approval, but I feel confident it will prove to be a solid performer
A guy at work just got a PSA lower, it's as good as an inexpensive lower can get... Now I want one too. I have lowers I'm not even using, but I still want another!
Straight Shooter
08-21-15, 22:19
Iv never had a problem with PSA. Shipping I think is sometimes a little high, but everything has been delivered fast and accurate. I think their rifles would fill the bill for a lot of people who don't shoot really high volumes. Been wanting to build one like OP did myself.
Yet another positive experience with PSA. Much like Prevail I was looking for an inexpensive carbine to use as a truck gun and training tool. I bought the 14.5" mid length gas system upper with one of their blem lowers and could not be happier with the gun. Runs very well and does everything I need for under $600.00.
Based on the thread title, I thought this was a thread about prostate health.
Glad to hear the rifle is working out for you, and I hope your prostate is doing alright.
Livefreeordie92
08-21-15, 23:43
I've run about 1k through my 14.7" lightweight CHF upper and it's been awesome. Would I take it over my BCM? No. But it makes a great house/beater gun with an Aimpoint PRO and a 6P with a malkoff head. It is a touch overgassed compared to my 14.5" BCM middy.
Gatorshark
08-21-15, 23:46
Thanks for the write ups on PSA. I've been on the fence.
Constable1956
08-22-15, 08:44
I run a BCM middie for my duty gun but have a PSA that performs well so far. I put a LMT bolt carrier group in it but other than that it's stock PSA premium parts. At about 1000 rounds its low round count but they seem to make a solid lower cost product. If your budget doesn't allow for a BCM, Noveske etc they seem to be a good alternative, especially for a truck gun, loaner etc....
Mine, a PSA premium build out shoots my 6920. Better trigger too. It has been perfect, and I think represents one of the best values in ARs today. YMMV
Straight Shooter, you just have to wait for the free shipping deals that PSA regularly has. My Freedom melonite upper and my blemished lower each came with free shipping, and I bought them a few months apart.
Very Happy with my PSA build.34722
Glad to hear it ORL1. How many rounds fired? Any high round count classes? Any issues at all?
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Renegade04
08-22-15, 14:52
I love a good PSA thread. Most of their products are of fantastic quality and bargain priced. I recommend them all of the time. I have used several of their products over the past few years. I have not had one issue.
What's going on in here? I thought the general consensus was that PSA sucks? Am I on ARFCOM or something?
HighDesert
08-22-15, 16:16
What's going on in here? I thought the general consensus was that PSA sucks? Am I on ARFCOM or something?
I was actually thinking the exact same thing - blown away.
Maybe the folks on the other side of the argument (I'm in that category based on my few experiences) are just tired of getting into the same squabble that happens when these threads pop up...
HighDesert
08-22-15, 16:17
A lot of people must be away on vacation or something...
shutup&shoot
08-22-15, 18:26
I bought one of their lowers for $159, which I think is a good deal. I must admit that a BCM BFH upper rides on it though.
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A lot of people must be away on vacation or something...
Ok, I'm back from vacation.
We're currently living in the Golden Era of La AR15, and there are TONS of other excellent choices available for only a little more money - a Colt 6920 comes to mind...
PSA is a gamble, one which I am not willing to take.
One of my older brothers, and a nephew, have a complete PSA rifle. Theirs has ran perfectly as well. I have an M&P 15, and it has ran well too, but I spent way more on mine than what they have in theirs. I plan on ordering a PSA lower around Christmas time, then the upper about a month later. Great rifle for the money.
For a fun gun, go ahead and roll the dice. For a serious use or possible serious use, you may want to explore other options.
PSA coming out of the closet thread? Interesting. I guess I'll share my experience too;
Bought a PSA rifle build kit in 2008. 16" CHF midlength FN marked barrel, BCG, LPK, buffer tube, buffer, buffer spring, charging handle, etc. (before they had premium, freedom, standard, blah blah blah). 13,000 + rounds of every type of ammo available (most of the ammo used was MFS 55 grain nickel coated Russian ammo as it was very cheap at the time) and only one problem. At 3,500+- rounds, I started having some failure to extract malfunctions. Installed a BCM extractor spring upgrade kit and never had a single malfunction since. Many classes (Pat Mac, John McPhee, etc) a few first place finishes in local Practical Rifle Matches, 3 gun tournaments, and just good old plinking.
The rifle has since been designated to the back of the safe for some new builds (mostly BCM, Daniel Defense, Sonics, Noveske, Colt) but the PSA still Dons an Aimpoint Pro, and is ready to go.
Mustang31, I was waiting to hear about the durability through carbine classes. Thanks.
Has anyone ever been to a class that was just really hard on guns? All the ones I've been to were just regular outside conditions in the Southern USA. Sometimes rainy, sometimes dusty. Nothing that killed guns.
Seen a lot of junkers not run, but it wasn't the classes fault...
I have purchased several rifle kits from PSA in the past few months to turn my stash of stripped lowers into rifles.
In my experience, I would stay away from the P-tac line unless you want super cheap. I have noticed several differences with this line including poor quality gas key bolts and crappy springs.
Their Freedom line is not too bad. They offer melonite coated barrels, stainless barrels, and pistol kits. I noticed that the small parts were better but nothing was marked HP/MP. I would equate this line with Stag or S&W M&P15s.
Their Premium line checks all the boxes that this forum would require in an AR platform. HP/MP barrels and bolts, proper staking, F marked front sight posts, etc etc... One difference that I have noticed is that all kits come with a carbine buffer instead of an H buffer.
Their CHF line is the premium line with CHF barrels. I would say that it would be like choosing a BFH barrel from BCM. The CHF barrel description is identical to Noveske's and FN's barrel description (249 barrel, double chrome lined...). They also offer a stainless CHF barrel. Something that I have never seen before. I called PSA and asked if they used FN barrels for their CHF barrels, since FN is a couple miles from PSA, but they would not confirm nor deny.
I purchased 2 complete CHF uppers to put on our department M-16s and made them M4s and they are very accurate and run 100%.
I also spent the day with a friend of mine who is very well known in the firearms industry and he was rocking a PSA CHF 14.7 middy LW while we were shooting on his range. He gave it the nod for an inexpensive quality rifle...
I got my dad a psa premium upper. It has worked flawlessly except for when the shit tulammo gets stuck in the chamber. That doesn't say much since it happened in my colt a few times as well.
He leaves it in an uninsulated cabin that sees harsh winters . I'm pretty impressed the thing hasn't rusted at all yet.
I'm the OP, and I'd like to thank the folks who have taken the time to post their experience. I only have about 2K rounds through mine, so I'm glad to hear from Mistwolf and Cory Cop25 with their higher round counts.
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Since this thread is here, I will say I have a 16" midlength upper rifle that's mostly psa. I built it, everything but the yhm handgun and gas buster charging handle is psa. Got a few thousand rds through it, had it several years now. It hasn't missed a beat yet, I rarely clean it, it sees mostly cheap wolf, but some m193 and m855, and a few of my nato pressure reloads in wolf steel cases. This was before freedom and ptac. I wouldn't buy ptac. Even runs well suppressed. I don't have many ars, and this one is topped with a Leupold AR patrol optic, but I have shot it to 500 yds. That reticle covers most of the target, but I could still get hits.
I used to be on this forum years ago, been gone and came back. After all the "tier 1 or nothing" talk, wasn't going to mention it or put it in the pics thread.
Eta: lower is a rock river running a Giselle g2s 3.5lb.
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Outlander Systems
08-23-15, 09:18
RE: PSA Lowers
If you want to transform a PSA Complete lower from good to great:
Replace the FCG springs with known quality springs
Replace the selector detent with a stainless one
Replace the receiver extension with a BCM
The receivers themselves that I have seen/built/shot are great. The "complete" versions I have come across need a handful of tweaks to get them up to speed, but it's less than $50 worth of cheap incidental items.
Much as I loathe to admit it, the PSA triggers I've pulled have been shockingly smooth.
YMMV
Renegade04
08-23-15, 17:31
This is the PSA Dissipator I built back in 2012. It has been a good shooting AR.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/017_zps1cb7fe44.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/017_zps1cb7fe44.jpg.html)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/014_zpsa7a2f4e8.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/014_zpsa7a2f4e8.jpg.html)
Upper Receiver:
PSA Dissipator 16" 5.56 NATO Mid-length 1/7 upper
PSA Premium BCG
PSA Charging Handle w/ Badger Tactical Latch
YHM Phantom 5C2 FH
YHM Flip-up Sight FSB (clamp-type)
MaTech 0-600 Rear Sight
KAC M5 RAS Handguards
MAGPUL AFG (black)
Lower Receiver:
PSA "Don't Tread On Me" lower receiver (stripped)
LMT 2-Stage Trigger
PSA Lower Parts Kit
BCM Carbine Buffer Assembly (Mil-Spec)
MAGPUL ACS-L stock
MAGPUL B.A.D. Lever
MAGPUL MIAD Grip
MAGPUL Trigger Guard
Optics/Mount:
MILLETT DMS-1 1-4x24 Illuminated Scope
BURRIS P.E.P.R. 30mm Scope Mount
Much as I loathe to admit it, the PSA triggers I've pulled have been shockingly smooth.
YMMV
I will second this.
I was in the last Magpul Dynamics carbine course instructed by Chris Costa and The Yeti. I believe there were 18 shooters in the class. At some point I believe about 1/3 went down or had issues.
In the next course I attended with Steve we had 3-4 guns go down. Specifically I recall an LWRC and a Noveske carbines. I did a patrol rifle course a few years back at the local community college and 3-4 guns went down.
Has anyone ever been to a class that was just really hard on guns? All the ones I've been to were just regular outside conditions in the Southern USA. Sometimes rainy, sometimes dusty. Nothing that killed guns.
Seen a lot of junkers not run, but it wasn't the classes fault...
Part of the problem is that they diminish their line with the PTAC crap and it concerns people. In the past I have seen issues with gas ports and some shoddy assembly. I have also used their lowers (a few years back) and they seemed fine.
This is the PSA Dissipator I built back in 2012. It has been a good shooting AR.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/017_zps1cb7fe44.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/017_zps1cb7fe44.jpg.html)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/014_zpsa7a2f4e8.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/014_zpsa7a2f4e8.jpg.html)
Upper Receiver:
PSA Dissipator 16" 5.56 NATO Mid-length 1/7 upper
PSA Premium BCG
PSA Charging Handle w/ Badger Tactical Latch
YHM Phantom 5C2 FH
YHM Flip-up Sight FSB (clamp-type)
MaTech 0-600 Rear Sight
KAC M5 RAS Handguards
MAGPUL AFG (black)
Lower Receiver:
PSA "Don't Tread On Me" lower receiver (stripped)
LMT 2-Stage Trigger
PSA Lower Parts Kit
BCM Carbine Buffer Assembly (Mil-Spec)
MAGPUL ACS-L stock
MAGPUL B.A.D. Lever
MAGPUL MIAD Grip
MAGPUL Trigger Guard
Optics/Mount:
MILLETT DMS-1 1-4x24 Illuminated Scope
BURRIS P.E.P.R. 30mm Scope Mount
Great looking rifle. Must shoot great.
Outlander Systems
08-23-15, 19:18
Don't tell Markm or he will sell all of his off.
Specifically I recall an LWRC...
That is where PSA is playing with fire. If an uninformed buyer shows up, and starts throwing PTAC junk in the cart, they will get what they'd paid for: not much.
Part of the problem is that they diminish their line with the PTAC crap and it concerns people. In the past I have seen issues with gas ports and some shoddy assembly. I have also used their lowers (a few years back) and they seemed fine.
I put a psa upper on a friends lower and got it sighted in for his gf, now wife. The thing has run fine, no high round count yet, but the fsb would not go down enough to sight in. I swapped the pin with mine which didn't have to go down as far, and all is good now, but the psa pin was not threaded correctly towards the top from what I can tell.
I think they CAN BE great but seems to be a lack of qa, so I'd definitely ensure function and reliability before trusting my life to it. Same as other guns, but I'd be a little more careful, not suprising based on price.
OP, good luck, chances are it will be g2g, just a guess.
...they diminish their line with the PTAC crap...
This is the heart of it right here. Companies like BCM fight hard to maintain the value of their brand
Has anyone ever been to a class that was just really hard on guns?
Yes. Heavy heavy rain, all mags were being dumped into 3-7" of standing water filled with heavy silt. This is when the game started to change.
Part of the problem is that they diminish their line with the PTAC crap and it concerns people. In the past I have seen issues with gas ports and some shoddy assembly. I have also used their lowers (a few years back) and they seemed fine.
Again and again we hear problems with the same areas. However, again and again people want to claim all barrels are the same.
For anyone who has a PTAC that works, that is fantastic. You take a gamble, you roll the dice, and perhaps you are one of the people who doesn't have a problem and get your thread deleted on the other board. I don't doubt for a minute that PSA doesn't make some acceptable gear, the personal issue I have is the QC which seems to rival that of Olympic Arms.
I pretty much built a PSA AR the same way as the OP, only I started with the PSA 16" Premium upper w/o BCG and charging handle. I believe it was $259.99 last November. Bought the same $129 lower in Jan of this year and an Aim Surplus Black Nitride BCG. The trigger on my lower is actually pretty good. Crisp and clean with a 6 1/4 lb pull.
Product description: 16" Chrome-lined, chrome moly vanadium. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine-length gas system. The M4 profile barrel is high pressure tested and magnetic particle inspected and then phosphate coated. Barrel is finished off with an .750" diameter F-marked front sight base with sling swivel, standard handguards and an A2 flash hider. Barrel is made for us right here in SC by FN Manufacturing. Rollmarked "5.56 NATO 1/7 CL MP PALMETTO"
The only trouble I've had with the setup is the bolt. Extractor went South after about 400 rounds. I installed a BCM bolt rebuild kit, and all is well again.
Yes. Heavy heavy rain, all mags were being dumped into 3-7" of standing water filled with heavy silt. This is when the game started to change.
Dump pouch?
click boom
08-24-15, 10:32
I have 3 psa uppers, CHF & Wilson stainless barreled. They have never missed a beat. I have many friends that have psa uppers thar never miss a beat.
Specifically I recall an LWRC and a Noveske carbines. I did a patrol rifle course a few years back at the local community college and 3-4 guns went down.
Can you go into detail on how the Noveske went down? I have 5, so I'm really curious. I could care less about the LWRC;) Thanks.
That was 4-5 years ago. As I recall there was some kind of feed/chamber issue. I wasn't able to fully resolve it, as I was also there to shoot. Unless your guns are malfunctioning now, I wouldn't worry.
The last issue I saw which was in 2014 was a carrier key that came loose at somewhere round 750 rounds.
Can you go into detail on how the Noveske went down? I have 5, so I'm really curious. I could care less about the LWRC;) Thanks.
Battlepack
08-25-15, 08:24
I know the CHF barrels are mostly good to go, and the PTAC line is rolling the dice on potential crap. However, I'm having trouble finding many reviews of their stainless barrel uppers. I've almost pulled the trigger on a couple of those uppers but have not been able to obtain enough info for an informed decision. I also cannot find reviews for their "hydrid free float rail" they offer. Any insights would be appreciated.
Battlepack, I ran into the same thing. I spent very few extra dollars and got the middy, A2 profile CL upper for $259. I'm fairly ecstatic at the performance.
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I just ordered the pencil profile premium upper that was last weekend's deal for 279. if I could find more info on that stainless dissipator model I wouldn't mind having one of those either. remember the Hildabeast is coming, and you can't have too many ARs!
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I stay clear of the PTAC line, but I do have four Premium builds from PSA. I attended a patrol carbine class ( 500 round course ) and an active shooter response course ( 450 round course ) with my "16 build with no issues. That was in 2013. Since then I've shot some mini-carbine courses ( 100 -150 rounds per course ) and still no issues. I do know a few people that have complained about canted sights, but so far that hasn't happen to me. I did receive a "complete" lower that was missing the buffer retaining pin, but I just used one from my spare parts. All in all I like the PSA Premium line stuff. I wouldn't say they're better than my BCM and Colts, but for the value they beat most of the competition boasting a comparable price value.
I also cannot find reviews for their "hydrid free float rail" they offer. Any insights would be appreciated.
If you are talking about the sqr rail I have a 15" one on a chf 16" psa barrel, but it is my only free float so not much to compare it to. I think those are made by cim tactical.
The rail is light & seems sturdy with about 10 months of use. The barrel nut is steel and appears as though it could accept a standard open end wrench. The rail attaches to the nut with 6 cap screws(psa red loctites in place) in pairs @ 3, 6, & 9 o'clock. I don't like/use the rear rail sections, but not annoying. The front section works for an offset light mount. Top slots are numbered and the female qd swivel mount points work well. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Based on the thread title, I thought this was a thread about prostate health.
Glad to hear the rifle is working out for you, and I hope your prostate is doing alright.
i used to take saw palmetto for my prostate.
Livefreeordie92
08-27-15, 06:07
Part of the problem is that they diminish their line with the PTAC crap and it concerns people. In the past I have seen issues with gas ports and some shoddy assembly. I have also used their lowers (a few years back) and they seemed fine.
My thoughts exactly and I own one and have been happy with it. The fact that they put their name on products that don't meet basic standards shows that they care more about maximizing sales/profit vs only putting out quality products like BCM. Lately they seem much more focused on stocking "Freedom" and "PTAC" uppers vs their Premium ones that got them into the realm of potentially being considered higher quality to begin with. Combine that with the fact that a BCM upper is usually only $150 more and I know exactly where my money and recommendation is going from now on.
I've used several PSA products, and for the most part they have been fine. Just keep in mind that there business model is to make very little off each item they sell, but to sell in as high a volume as possible. This means to save money they will not have the same quality control or service as some top tier companies. Sure, they have some decent products, but reality is people buy their stuff based mostly on price.
What's going on in here? I thought the general consensus was that PSA sucks? Am I on ARFCOM or something?
I can dissent, for a minute.
Had 2 PSA lowers, sold during the panic. Worked well, triggers a bit mushy.
Had an upper, sold as a complete rifle.
Currently have a mock-dissy upper with low round count (doing well so far, < 400 rounds).
Currently have a 16" 6.8 That thing choked like crazy on all ammo. Eventually sent it back; stated the gas tube was positioned wrong and fixed it. Sent it back about 10 days after I sent it. Worked great so far on about 150 rounds; only problem is magazines don't drop free. I have some different mags to try out, that are highly recommended on 68forums. As an edit, the lowers are BCM (several) that this upper was carried on.
Parachute Pants
08-28-15, 00:17
I have a few PSA "blem" URGs and lowers, and they are all fantastic, functionally and aesthetically. I mostly run cheap ammo (primarily Wolf Polyformance and Wolf Gold when I feel like splurging), and I haven't had any hiccups. They offer a great value, especially if looking for a second, beater rifle, as the OP was.
I just received my PSA parts today: Forward assist assembly, safety selector, ALG trigger, complete spring/detent misc., Ejection port cover and bolt catch assembly. Everything was shipped nicely, individually packaged and packaged with liberal amount of lubricant oil. A quick inventory leads me to believe that these are pretty good quality parts reasonably priced and shipped to my door in a timely manner!
I have not ordered any uppers or lowers from PSA, but I have ordered many LPK's. Only once have I had an issue (only due to a missing disconnector) but a quick call and PSA had one to my door the next day. Fantastic service.
Steuerwaldc
09-24-15, 09:04
Glad to hear everyone has had pretty good turn outs with PSA. I myself have built three ARs from them. One with over 2000 rounds, and the other 2 with over 1000. So far, they are all holding up well. No complaints.
My first AR was a PSA Premium M4 Carbine. It ran like a top til 1k rounds and then the BCG failed, followed by something in the gas system forward of the BCG, and the upper was showing horrendous wear. PSA replaced it with an upgraded and more expensive upper without any issues at all. They stood behind their gun 100%.
Sorry, I never understand topics like this.
You want a rifle to use to defend the lives of yourself and your loved ones, but you want a "cheap" rifle.
Makes no sense at all to me.
No one wants to spend more than they have too. My PSA premium has functioned as well in every respect as my DD, Colts, BCM, or Noveske. At 1/2 to 1/4 the price. I've recently bought a 2nd PSA and it is also performing excellently, though I've only got about 1k rounds through the newer one.
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I'm using this rifle to save myself and my family. Tell me which cheap-arse gun I should buy.
Does not compute.
ShooterM4, you are not paying attention and are spouting off with a knee jerk reaction. I trust my own experience. I have 5 top drawer ARs, 2 S&Ws and 2 PSAs. I'm good for homestead defense tools, thanks.
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Not paying attention? Yes, I am.
I hear a guy asking this: "I want to use an AR-15 to defend the life of my loved ones, help me now buy a cheap one."
Buy once, cry once.
It falls to wanting to get quality, but not pay more than necessary.
Honestly, I don't believe there is any reason outside of demand, and political pressures for a quality AR15 to cost much over $500 Of course, this is my somewhat uninformed opinion. I don't have any manufacturing experience in this field.
But it seems to me since the Clinton ban, prices surged, and they only just now seem to be becoming reasonably priced.
I don't think I would consider psa selling the ptac line necessarily a bad thing. They have been clear that they don't build those rifles, but rather sell them as a sole distributor. For people just wanting a plinker, ptac should likely do fine. I won't buy them, but plenty will.
I have only a sample of two PSA rifles to work with. One is my premium 16" mid length, and the other is a freedom 16" midlength melonite rifle.
Both have been shot about 1000 rounds now. Both shot all of those rounds just this last week on a single day.
The freedom rifle took a little more left wind age than I'd like, but zeroed before the sight ran out of adjustment. The premium zeroed almost at mechanical zero. I guess that would just be tolerance, or maybe the barrel followed torque a bit on the freedom rifle, I don't know, but intend to find out.
The premium has an a5 system with the standard a5 buffer, while the freedom currently has a standard carbine buffer.
Both ran great, no malfunctions using both gen2 pmags and various manufacturer GI mags, with green followers and Magpul followers.
We used federal 55 and 62 gr 5.56, American eagle 5.56 also in 55 and 62 gr. And 50 gr American eagle. All I know about that round is the velocity is above 3k Fps. Not sure if it's 5.56 or. 223 spec.
Oh yeah, I had a few mags of 55 gr Tula that worked well too. Just was sitting around so I shot it.
We were walking around in the desert shooting targets of opportunity most of the day. Only lubed them in the morning. The freedom was lubed moderately with some form of clp, and the premium was lubed excessively (I spilled it everywhere lol) with Lucas gun oil.
My experience with my sample of two, is gtg. I have a friend who has (or had, he sells guns fequently) 3 psa 16" carbines, and he hasn't had any issues. No idea on round count or whether they are freedom or premium. I know, friend of a friend of a turtle testimony there lol.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, kudos to you.
I disagree with you, but respect your thinking process.
I'm more comfortable with my BCMs and Daniel Defense rifles.
Tonight I just ordered a complete blem PSA pistol lower for $110 free shipping. Then ordered the complete nitrided upper for $280 with $17 shipping. Total $407 minus magazine and sights. This I hope will get me home to my BCM's.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, kudos to you.
I disagree with you, but respect your thinking process.
I'm more comfortable with my BCMs and Daniel Defense rifles.
Yeah, we all have to decide what we're comfortable with. A highly personal decision for sure.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, kudos to you.
I disagree with you, but respect your thinking process.
I'm more comfortable with my BCMs and Daniel Defense rifles.
I certainly hope he wasn't banned for that remark....
I certainly hope he wasn't banned for that remark....
Nah...he was on a "spree" most of the afternoon.
BatteryOperated
09-28-15, 12:35
Nah...he was on a "spree" most of the afternoon.
Yep, he had around 68 posts when I replied to one of his threads yesterday. He now has 98 after having a "busy" day on the forum. The thread I replied to was removed for some reason, however the last I checked the insult posts had begun.
Several people I go shooting were so impressed that I understood the intricate almost rocket scientist ability to change parts on an AR they asked me what parts to get etc. It ended up that I just ordered all the parts which were Palmetto State Armory premium uppers of their choice and complete bolt carriers and Palmetto State lower parts kits and the 7075 receiver extension M4 buttstock kits. Over a period of 4 years I put together 7 Palmetto Parts ARs a couple are used as 3 gun match rifles. They all went together without a hitch and from the first round functioned perfectly. It has been about 5 years for the first one and I see the carbines being shot regularly and there haven't been any problems. I would say Palmetto Premium parts/uppers are quite the bargain price wise and about as good as you can get quality price.
Over the summer, I had my 1st experience with psa. I bought an upper from them that went on an Anderson lower.The ordering and delivery process was all pretty quick and painless imo. I don't have a high enough round count to really make an accurate judgement on it yet (less then 500 rds), but so far I haven't had a single issue.
During the last year or so, for personal reasons, I started to think it would be wise to have upper/lower parts kits available- actually have enough parts to build 4 complete guns including upper/lower receivers. I have used PSA for small parts and individual parts kits. I have placed several orders with them and I'm starting to think I should get some kind of discount. I have been really happy with what I purchased, each part is individually packaged with a nice labels with product identification and description. The shipping time was reasonable, it could of been better had they shipped UPS RED overnight early AM delivery for free-but they didn't and that's fine. I have purchased lower parts kits and upper parts kits from CMT and you really cant tell the individual parts apart. I know a lot of people have there preference on BCG's, barrels, buffers and triggers but when it comes to forward assist, ejection port covers, roll pins, detents, detent springs, bolt catch and mag releases- I think the quality would be consistent with anything on the market if not found on a lot of guns on the market.
I have had good experiences so far with PSA, and for the money I absolutely would recommend them. Are they knights? No, but they sure as hell aren't 1500+ dollars either.
Does a psa lower mate well with a bcm upper?
yhmspecter
10-07-15, 14:28
Does a psa lower mate well with a bcm upper?
It sure does! I'm running two different PSA lowers with BCM uppers! But I'm a small two part sample!
I'm more comfortable with my BCMs and Daniel Defense rifles.
I love my BCM rifle. My favorite rifle, something that I spent a while building, and then even more time at the range with. However, the accuracy sucks heavy ass out of it. And it has a BFH barrel. Not sure if that is suppose to mean anything for accuracy, but if so, it doesn't. I got two PSA rifles and they shoot way better. Just my personal observation based on 3 ARs over a year period. My BCM barrel is bad to the point where I've been tempted to call and see WTF. 3-4 MOA at 100 with factory and reloads is well, I dunno.
My BCM upper fits perfectly on my PSA lower. I'm very happy with how solid the combination is.
Thesandstonefiles
10-07-15, 16:29
This thread is relavant to my interest. I have....uh......a couple of Anderson lowers laying around and my research shows the premium line is made by FN if what I've been reading is to be believed. I just wish they had the upper I want in stock. Someone bought the last one a couple of weeks ago and now I have to wait for them to restock it.
This thread is relavant to my interest. I have....uh......a couple of Anderson lowers laying around and my research shows the premium line is made by FN if what I've been reading is to be believed. I just wish they had the upper I want in stock. Someone bought the last one a couple of weeks ago and now I have to wait for them to restock it.
The barrels are FN, I believe. Not sure about the rest though.
Sent from my iPhone
Thesandstonefiles
10-07-15, 23:41
The barrels are FN, I believe. Not sure about the rest though.
Sent from my iPhone
That's what I meant. :). My bad
Made by FN but to PSA's specs.
Sure seems like a great option for a training rifle, thanks for the write-up.
Made by FN but to PSA's specs.
Which is 4150 chrome lined, 5.56 chamber and either button rifled or cold hammer forged. (Machine gun steel, whatever that is FN, and double chrome on some)
Given that people have been getting good accuracy, and at least on the mid length, the gas port dimensions are the same as bcm, I'm thinking their spec is fairly similar to what FN does as standard.
Seriously guy, if they were to some imagined crap spec, FN wouldn't let PSA advertise FN barrels. It would be terrible business. They have a name to uphold.
I'm not saying for sure it's the same as anything else, etc.
What I am saying is that there is no evidence that PSA specs their barrels poorly.
Anyway, said my piece. Not trying to turn this thread into an argument.
CatBacker88
10-08-15, 19:33
Made by FN but to PSA's specs.
That sounds so sinister! :confused:
Which is 4150 chrome lined, 5.56 chamber and either button rifled or cold hammer forged. (Machine gun steel, whatever that is FN, and double chrome on some)
Given that people have been getting good accuracy, and at least on the mid length, the gas port dimensions are the same as bcm, I'm thinking their spec is fairly similar to what FN does as standard.
Seriously guy, if they were to some imagined crap spec, FN wouldn't let PSA advertise FN barrels. It would be terrible business. They have a name to uphold.
I'm not saying for sure it's the same as anything else, etc.
What I am saying is that there is no evidence that PSA specs their barrels poorly.
Anyway, said my piece. Not trying to turn this thread into an argument.
A lot of people try to claim that the FN barrel sold by psa must be inferior to the FN barrels sold by the more expensive companies, basically saying it's the same as rejected second hand parts or at minimum similar to a raw forged lower that still requires a lot of work to finished.
That doesn't make sense to me, there seems to be zero evidence, and the top industry expert I talked to didn't believe there is different quality grades for that item
HighDesert
10-09-15, 08:28
Which is 4150 chrome lined, 5.56 chamber and either button rifled or cold hammer forged. (Machine gun steel, whatever that is FN, and double chrome on some)
Given that people have been getting good accuracy, and at least on the mid length, the gas port dimensions are the same as bcm, I'm thinking their spec is fairly similar to what FN does as standard.
Seriously guy, if they were to some imagined crap spec, FN wouldn't let PSA advertise FN barrels. It would be terrible business. They have a name to uphold.
I'm not saying for sure it's the same as anything else, etc.
What I am saying is that there is no evidence that PSA specs their barrels poorly.
Anyway, said my piece. Not trying to turn this thread into an argument.
You are certainly not a gourmet chef just because you have access to gourmet ingredients...
Psa has proved this time and time again, hence why we have threads like this. They have an earned history of utterly stupid mistakes and poor service they have to get past.
I will say that it does seem that psa is finally getting their shit together for the most part as compared to a few years ago. Haven't head a report of carbine gas tubes in middie uppers in a while :)
We have 4 of their uppers, all FN barreled, they get used hard in multigun matches. They have all ran flawlessly and I would buy more if I had a use for them.
Oh yeah, there was what? 4 of those carbine tubes in mid gas guns? And they fixed the issue and fired the employee responsible, and began test firing every upper. That one needs to be filed under crap happens. Yeah it's dumb, but it improved their product in the end.
And really, who could have seen something that dumb coming? That makes me wonder if the carbine tube even reached the reciever from the gas block. I'd bet not, but don't know.
But it really just brings the point home, psa specs good parts, and have gotten much better at putting them together in recent years. This is a good thing.
Are they Olympic, Vulcan, etc? No. Are they colt, bcm, etc? Parts wise, I'd say yes, assembly wise, not yet. But they have potential.
I have a desire to see PSA become better. The prices we've been paying for ARs is ridiculous, and should PSA succeed in becoming equivalent to the bigger guys, we all win.
^ parts wise they are sometimes better (FN barrel, and some 'cool' companies don't even use a capernter bolt)
The battle zone Vegas testimony definitely increased the street cred for PSA, extensive torture testing, and they performed very well
Has anyone tried their 10.5" uppers?
click boom
10-16-15, 22:49
Man, I got railed on this forum a couple months ago for suggesting PSA CHF premium as a good option for a guy asking about a "first AR build."
Almost Like I suggested a 79 ford pinto as a daily driver. Guess people are coming off their high horse. I got a few 1500 dollar carbines. one of my psa is my go-to right now.
click boom
10-16-15, 22:50
^ parts wise they are sometimes better (FN barrel, and some 'cool' companies don't even use a capernter bolt)
The battle zone Vegas testimony definitely increased the street cred for PSA, extensive torture testing, and they performed very well
Yeah I think it is primarily the BFV testimony.
I am a Colt guy, I have never sold a Colt and for the first 12 years owning ARs all I would buy is Colt. A few years ago I wanted to build a AR but could not locate a Colt stripped lower for a reasonable price. Picked up a Palmetto State Lower and a rifle kit, put it together shot it had no problems, Still are not having problems.
In fact one of my Colts a MT6601 has had more issues then all my other guns combined.
Does that prove that Palmetto State has a better rifle. No
Just not a large enough sample size.
I'm fortunate enough to live near a PSA retail store here in SC. I was fairly new into AR's a year or so ago and with a $1,000 budget and after doing a bunch of research I picked up a PSA premium 16" carbine. Put a quality ADM mount and quality 1-4 optics and pretty much out of the box this gun was an incredible shooter. It runs like an AR should. Never had a single FTF/FTF and I've used every kind of ammo there is. Probably over 2,000 rounds and still is highly accurate for an AR. In fact, the rifle has held zero since I put on the optics. I can shoot sporting clays from 100yds all day long with out a miss from a bag. Off hand not as good at 100y of course but that' s me. The Colt name certainly has it's following and I get that but I could not be happier with my PSA Premium AR.
I'm just curious, exactly how long do we have to sit here reviewing all of these guns before the sample size exceeds one? Seems it's always a sample of one, even in a thread like this with more than a sample of one. I mean, I have a sample of two.
They work well for battlefield Vegas, for me and many other posters, and they tick all the boxes on the holy chart (except manufacturer name, and assuming they're specced to, which is variable. )
BCM was new once. PSA has impressed me so far.
I'm the OP. I also have a sample of 2 which I've been shooting almost exclusively for about 3 months - about 1500 rounds without cleaning. I've had zero malfs, very good accuracy, and no signs of undue wear or build quality issues. I'm very satisfied and have bought another PSA complete lower and a BCG. Another upper will soon arrive. Don't take it from me; read about Battle Field Las Vegas' experience with PSA guns.
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MtnMan6114
02-10-16, 18:52
Will prob never be able to afford Colt or any other high end AR. Am in a Wyndham for now but leaning toward PSA.
Thanks so much for the words of wisdom coming from experience!
I recently bought a PSA premium upper, mid length with a pencil barrel. I only have about 200 rounds through it, but it's very accurate and will shoot anything I put through it. Happy so far
wildcard600
02-11-16, 06:40
I'm just curious, exactly how long do we have to sit here reviewing all of these guns before the sample size exceeds one? Seems it's always a sample of one, even in a thread like this with more than a sample of one. I mean, I have a sample of two.
They work well for battlefield Vegas, for me and many other posters, and they tick all the boxes on the holy chart (except manufacturer name, and assuming they're specced to, which is variable. )
BCM was new once. PSA has impressed me so far.
I think people are still leery of getting one of the lemons that PSA continues to send out -
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?179145-You-can-lead-a-horse-to-water-but-he-still-won-t-buy-a-6920
For a few bucks more you can get a complete BCM or Sionics upper with BCG (assuming the "premium" PSA line). I have bought alot of stuff from PSA but can't bring myself to roll the dice on upper parts due to the continuing reports of issues like these and the fact that I have never gotten an order from on "in-stock" items in less than 3 weeks.
YMMV
Eurodriver
02-11-16, 09:12
I think people are still leery of getting one of the lemons that PSA continues to send out -
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?179145-You-can-lead-a-horse-to-water-but-he-still-won-t-buy-a-6920
For a few bucks more you can get a complete BCM or Sionics upper with BCG (assuming the "premium" PSA line). I have bought alot of stuff from PSA but can't bring myself to roll the dice on upper parts due to the continuing reports of issues like these and the fact that I have never gotten an order from on "in-stock" items in less than 3 weeks.
YMMV
Bingo. PSA's reputation isn't because everyone hates on them out of jealously or something. After all, if they put out the same product as BCM for $150 less why wouldn't I buy them?
But they don't. Quality is hit or miss at best and shipping times/errors border theft. If you've ordered from PSA (I have) and gotten your items (I have) you played the game and won. I'm still trying to find all these posts of BCM, Noveske, DD, and other companies PSA is "just as good as" putting out so many mistakes. TOS has a thread directed at PSA titled "Where is my order?" because it takes so damn long. (https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/206481_The_Official__Where_is_my_order_thread.html&page=455)
Here is 1 out of 11,000+ replies:
Still no reply? Called and and was told that I'd get my answer for the hold up here. Been 3 weeks since you received it. Any updates yet as to when it will ship back, fixed???
Come on Palmetto, you guys are better than this!
Everyone likes to point out that "PSA uses CHF FN Barrels!" That's great! I will go into my garage and start assembling complete FN-sourced part uppers on my bench vice with my Harbor Freight torque wrench. I'll even ship faster and more accurately than PSA. Which of you guys would buy from me? :confused:
I've seen the anti-M4C posts all over the internet about being fanboys and shit. It's whatever. The truth is none of us give a shit anymore if you buy an inferior product. The information is out there. If you buy something, it works, and you're happy with it, why do you care what we think? People who buy PSAs are doing so to save money and feel like they got an equivalent product. So you have guys who are usually assholes to begin with (gun guys) compounding that with an even bigger type of asshole ("thrifty" gentlemen) Confirmation bias permeates threads like these and it's no wonder.
They don't want to face the reality that if PSA offered exactly the same product as the other guys why are they so much less expensive? Basic economics would say that equally substitute products would force BCM and the others to lower their prices in order to stay economically relevant. Either AR15s don't obey the laws of economics or PSA's production must be different...
I've said this before, probably even in this thread. Most of the PSA is probably gonna be OK, esp if you avoid the PTAC and the "Freedom" stuff. But just realize what you are getting in to. PSA has a business model of selling as much as they possibly can as quickly as they can at the lowest price they can. In order to do this, there is no way they will have the same standards of quality control and customer service that you will get elsewhere, that is just the reality. Overall, I have had not many issues with the PSA products I have used or sold, but I also don't expect it to be the same quality as BCM, DD, etc.
Relevant (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252716) thread on another forum.... Synopsis; OP says their "H2" buffer*weighs in at H1 weight, someone at PSA says all their H2's weigh 3.7oz now, site still says 4.5oz.
Edit - PSA's response (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3078631&postcount=6).
Bingo. PSA's reputation isn't because everyone hates on them out of jealously or something. After all, if they put out the same product as BCM for $150 less why wouldn't I buy them?
But they don't. Quality is hit or miss at best and shipping times/errors border theft. If you've ordered from PSA (I have) and gotten your items (I have) you played the game and won. I'm still trying to find all these posts of BCM, Noveske, DD, and other companies PSA is "just as good as" putting out so many mistakes. TOS has a thread directed at PSA titled "Where is my order?" because it takes so damn long. (https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/206481_The_Official__Where_is_my_order_thread.html&page=455)
Here is 1 out of 11,000+ replies:
Everyone likes to point out that "PSA uses CHF FN Barrels!" That's great! I will go into my garage and start assembling complete FN-sourced part uppers on my bench vice with my Harbor Freight torque wrench. I'll even ship faster and more accurately than PSA. Which of you guys would buy from me? :confused:
I've seen the anti-M4C posts all over the internet about being fanboys and shit. It's whatever. The truth is none of us give a shit anymore if you buy an inferior product. The information is out there. If you buy something, it works, and you're happy with it, why do you care what we think? People who buy PSAs are doing so to save money and feel like they got an equivalent product. So you have guys who are usually assholes to begin with (gun guys) compounding that with an even bigger type of asshole ("thrifty" gentlemen) Confirmation bias permeates threads like these and it's no wonder.
They don't want to face the reality that if PSA offered exactly the same product as the other guys why are they so much less expensive? Basic economics would say that equally substitute products would force BCM and the others to lower their prices in order to stay economically relevant. Either AR15s don't obey the laws of economics or PSA's production must be different...
You need to quit with all that logic, nobody wants to hear that mess.......
I recently bought a PSA M4 Premium. Let me first give you a run down of the AR's I've had in the past. Colt SP, Colt 6920, Bushmaster, LMT, Ruger and Armalite. The PSA "IMO" is every bit as good to go as the rest of them, and better than some. I would not hesitate for a second to recommend the M4 Premium. I paid $650 for mine brand new. The value vs quality is unbeatable based on my experience with the above.
I recently bought a PSA M4 Premium. Let me first give you a run down of the AR's I've had in the past. Colt SP, Colt 6920, Bushmaster, LMT, Ruger and Armalite. The PSA "IMO" is every bit as good to go as the rest of them, and better than some. I would not hesitate for a second to recommend the M4 Premium. I paid $650 for mine brand new. The value vs quality is unbeatable based on my experience with the above.
Experience how? Seriously. All you've stated is that you physically owned them.
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Bingo. PSA's reputation isn't because everyone hates on them out of jealously or something. After all, if they put out the same product as BCM for $150 less why wouldn't I buy them?
But they don't. Quality is hit or miss at best and shipping times/errors border theft. If you've ordered from PSA (I have) and gotten your items (I have) you played the game and won. I'm still trying to find all these posts of BCM, Noveske, DD, and other companies PSA is "just as good as" putting out so many mistakes. TOS has a thread directed at PSA titled "Where is my
order?" because it takes so damn long. (https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/206481_The_Official__Where_is_my_order_thread.html&page=455)
Here is 1 out of 11,000+ replies:
Everyone likes to point out that "PSA uses CHF FN Barrels!" That's great! I will go into my garage and start assembling complete FN-sourced part uppers on my bench vice with my Harbor Freight torque wrench. I'll even ship faster and more accurately than PSA. Which of you guys would buy from me? :confused:
I've seen the anti-M4C posts all over the internet about being fanboys and shit. It's whatever. The truth is none of us give a shit anymore if you buy an inferior product. The information is out there. If you buy something, it works, and you're happy with it, why do you care what we think? People who buy PSAs are doing so to save money and feel like they got an equivalent product. So you have guys who are usually assholes to begin with (gun guys) compounding that with an even bigger type of asshole ("thrifty" gentlemen) Confirmation bias permeates threads like these and it's no wonder.
They don't want to face the reality that if PSA offered exactly the same product as the other guys why are they so much less expensive? Basic economics would say that equally substitute products would force BCM and the others to lower their prices in order to stay economically relevant. Either AR15s don't obey the laws of economics or PSA's production must be different...
Well I'm glad that it doesn't bother you.
The truth is none of us give a shit anymore if you buy an inferior product.
That sums it up nicely.
These people aren't on my squad or department, they won't ever be protecting my family, friends or house. I don't even care if they have a weapon or not, never mind what type it is.
Experience how? Seriously. All you've stated is that you physically owned them.
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My experience with shooting them. Assembly and finish quality. and overall ownership experience. I've had two ARs that were problematic when new. A Bushmaster that was short stroking due to the gas carrier key having been improperly torqued/staked from the factory. And an LMT that would not zero because of alignment issues. I've had other LMTs with no issues, I just got a Lemon that can happen to any manufacture. Oh I also forgot to mention that I've owned a couple of Rock River Arms. Other than the two mentioned, I've been happy with all the ARs I've owned. As far as the PSA goes, it is "IMO" the best bang for the buck AR I've ever had. Again "IMO"
After buying a PSA you may find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT!". After buying a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT you will never find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a PSA!".
The bitterness of inferior quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. Buy once cry once!
[QUOTE=5.56Geo;2266136]After buying a PSA you may find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT!". After buying a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT you will never find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a PSA!".
I highly doubt I'll regret the PSA purchase. Not at that price/quality point. BTW the PSA has the best out of box mil-spec trigger I've ever had. Smooth, no grit, and breaks clean. Luck of the draw maybe?
After buying a PSA you may find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT!". After buying a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT you will never find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a PSA!".
The bitterness of inferior quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. Buy once cry once!
I haven't had that experience, and I have two BCM uppers, an LE6920, and a PSA Premium upper. My PSA upper has had more rounds downrange (at least 5,000) than my two BCM's and LE6920 combined and the PSA has better accuracy to boot over them all. I've never had a problem with PSA period in my sample of 21 orders either. I understand all companies have problems, that's especially the nature of high volume business. I understand what PSA is, and can appreciate them for what they are. If I have a problem out of PSA, how they take care of it will matter a heckuva lot to me. Until then, all I can tell is what experiences I've had so far.
I don't have problem with PSA, but I know what they are. I may be a noob here, but I have been around this game for 25+ years. Nothing PSA cranks out screams junk to me, (for the most part) but it also is not anything more than what they price it as. I myself found it hard to NOT bite on some of the deals they throw out there at times. The "blemished" midlength kit I bought on black friday for $399 with their chrome lined "premium" barrel, premium bolt carrier group, and Magpul furniture IMHO was a good buy............I could think of a lot worse things to spend $400 on.
RedRallyeZ
02-14-16, 10:36
I'm just curious, exactly how long do we have to sit here reviewing all of these guns before the sample size exceeds one? Seems it's always a sample of one, even in a thread like this with more than a sample of one. I mean, I have a sample of two.
I'm at two completed rifles, 3 others in various stages of completion (two of which waiting on tax stamps) and 2 others that i have built for friends and family.
As a disclaimer, I really WANT PSA to be successful and have great products. Im SC born and raised, and I like to see local business thrive. The Greenville retail location is also my primary shooting range and is not 5 minutes from my office, so I have a vested interest in their well being.
My first centerfire gun of any kind was a 14.5 pinned CHF build that i bought from them. I assembled that in 2011 so it had to be soon after PSA started gaining traction in the community, judging off the SN's of that gun and the most recent i picked up from them (dec 2015) that 2011 gun had to be in the first 5% they pumped out. It has worked flawlessly for me through 3k+ rounds. i know thats not a lot from what some of you guys put down range, but theres never been anything I've asked it to do that it hasn't.
My most recent completed build is a 18" rifle length SPRish gun. Rifle buffer, PSA stainless 18" barreled upper, blem lower, PSA LPK (with giesselle SSA-E.) It is a different story. I have been tuning it since it was completed, and is a FTF/short stroking machine. I have swapped bolts and lower and magazines between the two guns and it seems like i have isolated the issue to the gas port (i hope) and have contacted PSA to see what they recommend. I don't have an answer from them yet but i just tried to make contact a few days ago. i know that 18" rifle gas guns can be picky, and i know that cold weather can exacerbate the issue, but this thing has NEVER worked right. I still have faith that this will get taken care of, but my impressions of PSA are still favorable, I just hope the customer service can come through for me here....
I have 3 complete PSA rifles with 1000's of round of every type ammo made from many different mags and have not had any problems. I've built or helped with 5 or so more and not heard of any problems. Lucky, maybe but for the money (2 of 3 are under $550) they are good. I have others (Colt, Sig and DPMS) and up to 100 yards not much difference for my ability.
Thanks to my addiction I build a "better one" and a better one and a better one until I finally build the Holy Grail of AR's or die!
I have a couple just for blasting around the ranch. They aren't my go-to rifles but they work fine and were better and cheaper than the usual cheap companies because with PSA you get 1/7 twist barrels, you can buy a rifle kit to avoid the assembly tax, and at $450 total you can't beat it. Otherwise, what are the cheap options? 1/9 twist Windham Weaponry or crappy Radical that has the barrels unscrewing from the extension? meh.
Livefreeordie92
02-14-16, 22:20
After buying a PSA you may find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT!". After buying a BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, or LMT you will never find yourself saying, "Maybe I should have bought a PSA!".
The bitterness of inferior quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. Buy once cry once!
Yep. Had a PSA because I didn't want to spend the $ for a BCM. Well a year and some change later I now have 2 BCMs and the PSA sits in the safe. I keep it because it has been reliable but the fsb is canted slightly and it is overgassed. And their "lightweight" profile 14.7" barrel is a fairly useless profile. Nowhere near as light as my 16" lightweight BCM middy.
Livefreeordie92
02-14-16, 22:26
or crappy Radical that has the barrels unscrewing from the extension?
Say what?
The wife's new range toy is a PSA lower and Premium upper build. Only a couple of hundred rds through it so far but it's been 100%. A couple of friends went a similar route (one went lower/premium upper, the other went premium kit and his own stripped lower), both have been 100% as well (again, limited rd count).
Would I go PSA for "serious use"? No.
However, their Premium line seems pretty good for entry-level so far.
The wife's new range toy is a PSA lower and Premium upper build. Only a couple of hundred rds through it so far but it's been 100%. A couple of friends went a similar route (one went lower/premium upper, the other went premium kit and his own stripped lower), both have been 100% as well (again, limited rd count).
Would I go PSA for "serious use"? No.
However, their Premium line seems pretty good for entry-level so far.
I've seen the phrase "Serious Use" thrown about on these forums quite a bit. What constitutes "Serious Use?" I mean how many times do I have to read people saying things like " I have brand X rifle. I've got 1K rounds through it without an issue, but would not trust it for "Serious Use". if your gun works, it works right? So it amuses Me how many people who have 100% reliable firearms that have brand "X" on the side say they would only trust them as range toys. I think "some" people put more faith in a roll mark than in actual performance. If My rifle performs reliably and I can shoot it well, why shouldn't I trust it for "Serious Use" just because the roll mark might not be brand "Y?"
I've seen the phrase "Serious Use" thrown about on these forums quite a bit. What constitutes "Serious Use?" I mean how many times do I have to read people saying things like " I have brand X rifle. I've got 1K rounds through it without an issue, but would not trust it for "Serious Use". if your gun works, it works right? So it amuses Me how many people who have 100% reliable firearms that have brand "X" on the side say they would only trust them as range toys. I think "some" people put more faith in a roll mark than in actual performance. If My rifle performs reliably and I can shoot it well, why shouldn't I trust it for "Serious Use" just because the roll mark might not be brand "Y?"
To me "serious use" means professional LE/MIL, where your life may literally depend upon the reliability/durability of your weapon every single day.
To me "serious use" means professional LE/MIL, where your life may literally depend upon the reliability/durability of your weapon every single day.
OK, but the point of Jay H's comment is still valid. Would you put more faith in a rollmark than the proven performance of a gun you actually own and have tested with thousands of rounds?
OK, but the point of Jay H's comment is still valid. Would you put more faith in a rollmark than the proven performance of a gun you actually own and have tested with thousands of rounds?
After personal testing is one thing. It's quite another when comparing two untested rifles right off the rack, at which point it becomes which is more likely to be rugged/reliable when your life might be on the line *before* you've had the chance to test.
Tomac
I wouldn't trust any rifle "off the rack" for the type of serious use you described. Regardless of brand, before its suitable for "serious use" it has to be tested and proven to perform. Anything else is like leaving your fate to a roll of the dice.
Battlefield Las Vegas
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He is most likely referring to barrels where the barrel and extension have been QPQ/Melonited/Nitrided and the barrel extension has loosened due to the process.
Say what?
I wouldn't trust any rifle "off the rack" for the type of serious use you described. Regardless of brand, before its suitable for "serious use" it has to be tested and proven to perform. Anything else is like leaving your fate to a roll of the dice.
If your LE/MIL armorer hands you a rifle "off the rack", you have little say in the matter.
If your LE/MIL armorer hands you a rifle "off the rack", you have little say in the matter.
In that case this entire discussion is moot, because you then have to trust that your organization made the right decisions in testing, purchasing and maintenance. Brand name still has nothing to do with it.
There is no reason to justify our purchases on this or any forum. Most of us will never be in combat. In a home invasion you will not likely empty a mag so, for most of us all our guns are range toys. If you join the military you will be issued a gun made by the lowest bidder, even worst if you are LE. So enjoy your toys and ignore the internet commandos.
Carry on!
I built a PSA AR with Anderson lower just before 2014 blackfriday. It now have over 3k rounds in it roughly 90% steel case between tula, brownbear, and Wolf. The first 500 rounds was shot bone dry after manually cycling about 100 time because toolcraft bolt was tight (wouldn't go in battery without aid of forward assist when ease forward). Still to this day I had zero failure/malfunction of any kid. PSA IS NOT A GAMBLE. PSA is way to go. They use L. W. Schneider small parts and upper+lower (used to be aero precision for older upper+lower) L. W. supplied alot other higher quality ar maker. For barrel PSA use either mossberg, FN, or wilson. Their current freedom line upper are made in house i heard. Mine was pre freedom series non premium with L. W. upper and mossberg barrel. PSA use toolcraft for all of their BCG which is god teir good. Toolcraft is mil contract bcg maker.
It was built for $460, it have long accumulated upgrade or change such as swapping furniture for a2 handguard and CAR instead of m4 handguard and waffleside stock. It now have geissele s3g and raptor charging handle in it. It had springco red coded buffer spring and st-t2 buffer.
PSA is good shit.
I built a PSA AR with Anderson lower just before 2014 blackfriday. It now have over 3k rounds in it roughly 90% steel case between tula, brownbear, and Wolf. The first 500 rounds was shot bone dry after manually cycling about 100 time because toolcraft bolt was tight (wouldn't go in battery without aid of forward assist when ease forward). Still to this day I had zero failure/malfunction of any kid. PSA IS NOT A GAMBLE. PSA is way to go. They use L. W. Schneider small parts and upper+lower (used to be aero precision for older upper+lower) L. W. supplied alot other higher quality ar maker. For barrel PSA use either mossberg, FN, or wilson. Their current freedom line upper are made in house i heard. Mine was pre freedom series non premium with L. W. upper and mossberg barrel. PSA use toolcraft for all of their BCG which is god teir good. Toolcraft is mil contract bcg maker.
It was built for $460, it have long accumulated upgrade or change such as swapping furniture for a2 handguard and CAR instead of m4 handguard and waffleside stock. It now have geissele s3g and raptor charging handle in it. It had springco red coded buffer spring and st-t2 buffer.
PSA is good shit.
Yes, but is it good enough for "Serious Use?".....LOL
I built a PSA AR with Anderson lower just before 2014 blackfriday. It now have over 3k rounds in it roughly 90% steel case between tula, brownbear, and Wolf. The first 500 rounds was shot bone dry after manually cycling about 100 time because toolcraft bolt was tight (wouldn't go in battery without aid of forward assist when ease forward). Still to this day I had zero failure/malfunction of any kid. PSA IS NOT A GAMBLE. PSA is way to go. They use L. W. Schneider small parts and upper+lower (used to be aero precision for older upper+lower) L. W. supplied alot other higher quality ar maker. For barrel PSA use either mossberg, FN, or wilson. Their current freedom line upper are made in house i heard. Mine was pre freedom series non premium with L. W. upper and mossberg barrel. PSA use toolcraft for all of their BCG which is god teir good. Toolcraft is mil contract bcg maker.
It was built for $460, it have long accumulated upgrade or change such as swapping furniture for a2 handguard and CAR instead of m4 handguard and waffleside stock. It now have geissele s3g and raptor charging handle in it. It had springco red coded buffer spring and st-t2 buffer.
PSA is good shit.
A sample size of one. Many others have not had such luck. Coming on here and declaring "PSA is good shit" isn't doing anyone any favors. Quite the opposite.
They can source their parts from wherever they please but the QC applied to these parts isn't the same at better manufacturers. What PSA accepts through their QC from a particular manufacturer is not the same as a better company will accept from the same exact manufacturer. Those parts may be from a reputable manufacturer that were rejected and sold as seconds.
Coming on here and declaring PSA is "just as good as" is an irresponsible, and disingenuous, thing to do.
OK all you PSA fans, jump in and let's get this "Sample Size" up. My PSA is "Good Shit" also. There, a sample size of 2. Sorry if I'm being irresponsible.
As I said earlier Mine work great so far. Will they last as long as my "name brand" AR's, only time will tell. After 1000's of rounds thur each yes. After 10,000 rounds, I'll have to get back to you on that.
Also the D&H PSA 5.56 magazines for $6.99 have all run flawlessly.
HighDesert
02-17-16, 21:54
I built a PSA AR with Anderson lower just before 2014 blackfriday. It now have over 3k rounds in it roughly 90% steel case between tula, brownbear, and Wolf. The first 500 rounds was shot bone dry after manually cycling about 100 time because toolcraft bolt was tight (wouldn't go in battery without aid of forward assist when ease forward). Still to this day I had zero failure/malfunction of any kid. PSA IS NOT A GAMBLE. PSA is way to go. They use L. W. Schneider small parts and upper+lower (used to be aero precision for older upper+lower) L. W. supplied alot other higher quality ar maker. For barrel PSA use either mossberg, FN, or wilson. Their current freedom line upper are made in house i heard. Mine was pre freedom series non premium with L. W. upper and mossberg barrel. PSA use toolcraft for all of their BCG which is god teir good. Toolcraft is mil contract bcg maker.
It was built for $460, it have long accumulated upgrade or change such as swapping furniture for a2 handguard and CAR instead of m4 handguard and waffleside stock. It now have geissele s3g and raptor charging handle in it. It had springco red coded buffer spring and st-t2 buffer.
PSA is good shit.
I've said before and I'll say it again:
Buying gourmet ingredients does not automatically make you a gourmet chef.
PSA has proven time and time again they don't know how to, or care how to, consistently assemble an AR.
Yes. Laugh all you want. But i trust it to endure and remain reliable as long as its more expensive mid level counterparts. I shot first 500 rounds bone dry and it have shown no sign of choking or even begun choking and rounds after rounds later its still shooting as good it came from factory. I have owned two ar before this one dpms and spikes. Overall build quality psa blow dpms away and rival spikes. I trust it keep chugging long after first barrel get shot out then replaced and life of bolt reached then replaced.
A sample size of one. Many others have not had such luck. Coming on here and declaring "PSA is good shit" isn't doing anyone any favors. Quite the opposite.
They can source their parts from wherever they please but the QC applied to these parts isn't the same at better manufacturers. What PSA accepts through their QC from a particular manufacturer is not the same as a better company will accept from the same exact manufacturer. Those parts may be from a reputable manufacturer that were rejected and sold as seconds.
Coming on here and declaring PSA is "just as good as" is an irresponsible, and disingenuous, thing to do.
Nice bullshit monkey you pulled outta your ass. The parts PSA use was made to order. I know this, evidence also agreed with my word.
I built a PSA AR with Anderson lower just before 2014 blackfriday. It now have over 3k rounds in it roughly 90% steel case between tula, brownbear, and Wolf. The first 500 rounds was shot bone dry after manually cycling about 100 time because toolcraft bolt was tight (wouldn't go in battery without aid of forward assist when ease forward). Still to this day I had zero failure/malfunction of any kid. PSA IS NOT A GAMBLE. PSA is way to go. They use L. W. Schneider small parts and upper+lower (used to be aero precision for older upper+lower) L. W. supplied alot other higher quality ar maker. For barrel PSA use either mossberg, FN, or wilson. Their current freedom line upper are made in house i heard. Mine was pre freedom series non premium with L. W. upper and mossberg barrel. PSA use toolcraft for all of their BCG which is god teir good. Toolcraft is mil contract bcg maker.
It was built for $460, it have long accumulated upgrade or change such as swapping furniture for a2 handguard and CAR instead of m4 handguard and waffleside stock. It now have geissele s3g and raptor charging handle in it. It had springco red coded buffer spring and st-t2 buffer.
PSA is good shit.
I read this whole post in a 1950's era, western movie "Indian chief" voice in my head.
It was awesome.
ETA:
Actually, I think it was Tonto from 'The Lone Ranger'.
"PSA good shit, Kemosabe"
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Yes kemosabe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC7iUM9L1l4
:cool:
wildcard600
02-21-16, 23:56
Nice bullshit monkey you pulled outta your ass. The parts PSA use was made to order. I know this, evidence also agreed with my word.
The fact that PSA is sending out uppers with the front sight so jacked it would make even the worst canted sight AK's cringe proves that their QC is either run by the bullshit monkey you speak of, or is entirely nonexistent.
If you want to spend $500 and roll the dice on a "premium" PSA upper instead of $550 for a BCM or Sionics. Have at it my friend.
Beating DPMS isn't a high bar to beat.
Yes. Laugh all you want. But i trust it to endure and remain reliable as long as its more expensive mid level counterparts. I shot first 500 rounds bone dry and it have shown no sign of choking or even begun choking and rounds after rounds later its still shooting as good it came from factory. I have owned two ar before this one dpms and spikes. Overall build quality psa blow dpms away and rival spikes. I trust it keep chugging long after first barrel get shot out then replaced and life of bolt reached then replaced.
I would just add buying from good names doesn't always mean you'll get the best upper- but probably the best experience replacing it if there is something wrong.
Anecdotally, my PSA upper is the best assembled upper I have. All of my uppers have worked, but I have an upper with a loose handguard cap, and another with a visually crooked low profile gas block (not crooked enough to block gas, but annoying to have the barrel drilled offcenter to me), both from good companies.
So if you know what you're doing and have other rifles so you can wait on things getting fixed, get yourself that PSA and check it over, saving some money.
The fact that PSA is sending out uppers with the front sight so jacked it would make even the worst canted sight AK's cringe proves that their QC is either run by the bullshit monkey you speak of, or is entirely nonexistent.
If you want to spend $500 and roll the dice on a "premium" PSA upper instead of $550 for a BCM or Sionics. Have at it my friend.
CITATION of "jacked fsb" from psa requested.
I do not think you have see the worse of canted ak sight.
Company having QC doesn't mean it will catch every single errors. few get past, its normal.
Premium PSA get cheaper than $500 plenty of time.
CITATION of "jacked fsb" from psa requested.
I do not think you have see the worse of canted ak sight.
Company having QC doesn't mean it will catch every single errors. few get past, its normal.
Premium PSA get cheaper than $500 plenty of time.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?179145-You-can-lead-a-horse-to-water-but-he-still-won-t-buy-a-6920
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I love PSA products and there parts are in every AR i own. The only problem i ever had was with one of there BCG's i was getting occasional failure to ejects it turns out after replacing extractor spring with bcm upgraded spring and rubber washer problem was resolved.
wetidlerjr
02-27-16, 20:20
I love PSA products and there parts are in every AR i own. The only problem i ever had was with one of there BCG's i was getting occasional failure to ejects it turns out after replacing extractor spring with bcm upgraded spring and rubber washer problem was resolved.
A few years ago, this was the "only problem" a friend of mine had with a PSA.
FYI: Example of one; YMMV.:blink:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/wetidlerjr/Colt%201911/PSA%20AR%20ECC%20o72912/PSA_ARKABOOM017.jpg
Holy crap! I hope your friend still has his eyes. There has to be more to this story though that's some serious pressure problems causing something like that to happen.
wetidlerjr
02-27-16, 20:56
Yeah, this was in 2012. No injuries and believed to be ammo related. I posted this on this site when it happened so I won't hijack this thread by posting again. The owner was a "range friend" and he never told me (if he found out) what caused it.
99 percent chance that whatever caused that would have caused it with any brand receiver.
turnburglar
02-27-16, 23:38
My psa upper went through ~300 rounds of that over pressure independence m193. The stuff was blowing primers almost once a mag. Once I googled the ammo I immediately stopped using it. Regardless my psa BCG was holding this hot stuff in the psa barrel and all seems fine.
My PSA Freedom 16" went to the range today for the first time. Put 200 rounds of mixed .223 and .556 through it without any issues. I'll change the trigger soon, but the build quality and finish were very good.
I'm a 1911 pistol guy and this is my first AR. That's kind of a throwback from the M16 Army issue crap in VN that I avoided (I was able to keep an M14). Today's equipment is far better. So we'll see if my first experiment with a PSA is a good one.
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Very interesting thread.
I have quite a few PSA , Colt and BCM uppers and lowers. As well as a few SanTan lowers.
By far the "sloopiest" fit is the PSA lower's.
I shoot probably 3-4k .223 / 5.56 rounds a year, 95% at the local range... so no rifle is being dragged through the mud.... all rifles have functioned fine.... BUT...I have had to do the final quality control on 3 PSA uppers.
The first had such a loose barrel nut, that I was getting excessive sized groups at 50yds.... it was hand tight.... So I fixed it.
The next one was the gas block, same type of problem.... so I fixed it.
The last one was a 9MM upper, the flash suppressor was only screwed on 1/2 way..... So I fixed it. How they missed that ?!
My biggest compliant about PSA is their lack of consistent quality control..... the consumer should not be the final QC.
I don't mind fixing the stuff.... but I do have to wonder about the casual AR owner,... very few would look at the barrel nut.
Did I send any of the PSA stuff back for a refund ? Nope. I knew what I paid for.
Would I order more PSA stuff ? ....If the right upper came along..... maybe.... but by now my tastes have turned to BCM and no worrying about half ass'ed assembly. ( Not to mention with BCM I can get dang near exactly what I want. )
I will add.... In defense of PSA... everything I bought is a great deal. It all functions as it should. Nothing I had to "fix" was past "just tighten it up level", in other words, nothing was unserviceable. The uppers I bought just lacked that "final inspection / attention to detail" part. All the lowers , while looser then other brands, were in no way out of spec enough to make me return them.
Bfoosh, my experience was just the opposite. I had my go to guns all squared away- 2 Colts, BCMs, a DD, and a Noveske - before I tried PSA as a trunk / truck gun. Something that wouldn't cause me to weep years of blood if stolen. My 2 PSAs have far exceeded my expectations. Not only is there nothing to complain about , but the performance has been on a par with guns that cost three times as much. I stuck with PSA though, no PTAC or Freedom.I would have stopped at 1, then sold it, had their been any issues at all. In fact, I am shopping for another PSA upper to go on a lower I've had awhile.
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38317I've had a few AR's over the years, including a very nice BCM. But I am now down to a couple of PSA premiums.have a little over 1k through each of them with no malfunctions except for a magazine problem locking back before chambering the last round, so i just stopped using that mag.....the only downside to these is what NY made me do to keep them, fixed 10/20 mags so I have to top load.....other than that I expect these 2 PSA's to out live me. 14 months to go to a free state so I can get rid of the stupid mag locks!
When I first saw this thread, back when it started, I read it, due to having a rifle with psa parts. A friend and I each built a rifle, several years ago, before the "ptac" and "freedom" lines were even offered. Neither of us had a lot of cash, but wanted the most we could get for what we had. He ran into financial problems, and had to sell his later, I still have mine. It is my primary. I also have a pistol with psa parts, and another rifle. I used mine for 3gun for a few years. I don't know exactly how many rounds it's fired. It's run 5.56 Lake city, federal 223, cheap wolf and tula, reloads at 5.56 specs on both brass and steel cases. All without a hitch. It shoots as well as I do.
Is it as good as colt, bcm, dd? Probably not, but it didn't cost as much, either. I think it's better than dpms, bushmaster, Wyndham, and it cost more than those.
I assembled all my weapons, so I don't know about the assembly qc issues. Their shipping did not impress me, but I did get what I ordered.
So, would I trust it? Yes, because it has established that it will work. It serves my needs just fine.
However, one thing I would note here. I keep seeing that I could've bought bcm for another $50 on an upper.
If I had been able to actually do that, I would have. After multiple searches, all results ended up spending substantially more than a difference of $50.
It's been a few years now, but I haven't seen any changes yet.
And, everybody does seem to be pretty wrapped up in "the best" when dod bought the lowest bidder. That makes both colt and fn the lowest bidder.
No, I don't claim psa is the best, or equal to it. But, it's not the worst. If you get the "premium", you get a good deal for what you paid for it.
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wildcard600
03-15-16, 23:24
When I first saw this thread, back when it started, I read it, due to having a rifle with psa parts. A friend and I each built a rifle, several years ago, before the "ptac" and "freedom" lines were even offered. Neither of us had a lot of cash, but wanted the most we could get for what we had. He ran into financial problems, and had to sell his later, I still have mine. It is my primary. I also have a pistol with psa parts, and another rifle. I used mine for 3gun for a few years. I don't know exactly how many rounds it's fired. It's run 5.56 Lake city, federal 223, cheap wolf and tula, reloads at 5.56 specs on both brass and steel cases. All without a hitch. It shoots as well as I do.
Is it as good as colt, bcm, dd? Probably not, but it didn't cost as much, either. I think it's better than dpms, bushmaster, Wyndham, and it cost more than those.
I assembled all my weapons, so I don't know about the assembly qc issues. Their shipping did not impress me, but I did get what I ordered.
So, would I trust it? Yes, because it has established that it will work. It serves my needs just fine.
However, one thing I would note here. I keep seeing that I could've bought bcm for another $50 on an upper.
If I had been able to actually do that, I would have. After multiple searches, all results ended up spending substantially more than a difference of $50.
It's been a few years now, but I haven't seen any changes yet.
And, everybody does seem to be pretty wrapped up in "the best" when dod bought the lowest bidder. That makes both colt and fn the lowest bidder.
No, I don't claim psa is the best, or equal to it. But, it's not the worst. If you get the "premium", you get a good deal for what you paid for it.
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I'm not sure where everyone is seeing the great deals on PSA uppers. I look at their "premium" line and all are ~$500. BCM uppers are just over $500.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-premium-mid-length-a2-5-56-nato-1-7-moe-blk-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM%2DURG%2DMID%2D16
Not seeing the "savings".
YMMV
I think I mentioned I never bought an upper, meaning complete upper.
I've built every AR I have.
But, I did compare parts prices. If say, bcm was close to psa premium, I would have got the bcm. But it was somewhat higher, so I didn't.
No complete upper by either psa or bcm was what I wanted.
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wildcard600
03-15-16, 23:52
I think I mentioned I never bought an upper, meaning complete upper.
I've built every AR I have.
But, I did compare parts prices. If say, bcm was close to psa premium, I would have got the bcm. But it was somewhat higher, so I didn't.
No complete upper by either psa or bcm was what I wanted.
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My mistake, I didnt realize you were talking just parts vs assembled upper.
I make no claims about my PSAs being "better", but they were both approx 1/2 to 3/4 the price of a comparably outfitted BCM. I waited for free shipping offers on all items. I got a complete lower for $129. Another for $159. 2 bolt carrier groups at $79.99 each. Premium lightweight upper $279. Wilson barrelled A2 upper $239. CHs from my parts bin.
What I got for those prices are 2 accurate , reliable bullet launchers for the trunk of my cars
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Of course, there is sort of an advantage here to this.
I have like 4 builds now, which I know is probably not anywhere near as many as some.
As I have built and used weapons, my ideas of what constituted the most desirable features have evolved. Some things have changed, some have not.
I have considered selling off a couple, and then building the rifle I would've built the first time, if I had known then what I know now.
Experimenting at a cheaper price is a good thing, at least for the budget.
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I'm the OP in this thread and I continue to get excellent performance from my PSA rifles - which now number 4, with 5's barrel en route. Rob Ski at AKOU is now at round 3,000 of a scheduled 5,000 test of a PSA Freedom (economy line) carbine. The test rifle is doing very well. Here's the link:
http://youtu.be/e9UNyWgrWbU
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wildcard600
10-02-16, 01:32
I have a PSA freedom upper on my beater gun. Its been pretty good, other than some issues with steel cased ammo early on getting stuck in the chamber. The barrel had a coating of brown shit that looked like cosmoline inside the chamber (probably a rust preventative) that I believe was causing the stuck cases.
Once the issue was resolved its been a good upper. It does have a BCM bolt and carrier FWIW. I still see issues posted around the web about canted FSB's and other PSA assembly problems so I got lucky that everything is on straight and appears to be properly put together.
I still don't recommend them, unless someone is looking for a third or fourth gun that they can roll the dice on the chance they will get one that isn't jacked up and is willing to deal with the clown show that is PSA communication if they get one that does have problems.
Shipping on the upper was actually the quickest order I ever placed with PSA, and right at two weeks.
I purchased a PSA midlength premium, lightweight upper. About 1500 rounds through with zero malfunctions, running a S&W BCG that came from previous build. About 3 MOA with XM193, nothing special, military grade accuracy. Ordered upper and had it in 5 days. I chopped the A2 and put on a TROY alpha rail so I can't comment on the canted front sight issue.
It's funny, I keep hearing about canted sight posts and slow shipping, but that hasn't been my experience either... Ever. Crazy how the Internet works.
It's funny, I keep hearing about canted sight posts and slow shipping, but that hasn't been my experience either... Ever. Funny how the Internet works.
I keep hearing it also, but like you all I have yet to see or experience it. Maybe someone's confused with canted sights on Century AK's. :D
2631orange
10-03-16, 12:39
I've ordered from PSA about 6 or 7 times over the past couple of months, which includes 2 uppers, 2 lowers, and D&H mags. Shipping on the first couple orders took about 2 weeks. However, on my 2 orders last week, I received a shipping notice the next day.
I haven't had any problems with any PSA stuff. Granted, I don't shoot multiple thousands of rounds per year, but this isn't my first time around the block either. I believe they are just good rifles, and nothing to be ashamed of.
The 20" melonite barreled upper I ordered has worked great on my PSA EPT lower. I'm expecting my 16" mid-length Freedom melonite upper to be delivered today, and it will be put on the other PSA EPT lower I ordered a few weeks ago. If there are any problems, I'll report back.
I just can't wait for them to get 20" CHF-CL complete uppers in stock again. I have to have one of those.
I've never had a problem with PSA until recently. I blame it entirely on their customer service. However, I've bought a ton of PSA parts in the past, and in all honesty, paying extra for quality parts doesn't hurt so bad when I know I'll be getting good service and good parts elsewhere.
Just a quick update on my experience with my PSA ARs. I now have 5, and have had no malfunctions, except for 1 Freedom melonited upper on a PSA Defender (ambi selector and sling loops/ "upgraded" trigger) that doubled about 5 times in its first 300 rounds, but never again.
One now has slightly more than 6500 rds through it. It is a $467 joy to shoot. Accurate, reliable and it just works, as they all do. Next highest round count is my trunk gun with about 2000 rds. Nothing to report except that it, too runs like a watch. Each one got a shakedown after an initial couple hundred rounds. I topped off between 6 and 10 known good mags and fired them as fast as I could pull the trigger and speed reload. None had any problem with that. The trunk gun gets a version of that every time I hit the range, but only 1-3 mags.
I'm the OP in this thread and I'm a bigger fan of PSA now than I was then. I recently bought 3 spare PSA Premium BCGs at $69 for spares. For ME they have functioned as well as my Colt, DD, or BCM BCGs. As have the carbines.
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Just a quick update on my experience with my PSA ARs. I now have 5, and have had no malfunctions, except for 1 Freedom melonited upper on a PSA Defender (ambi selector and sling loops/ "upgraded" trigger) that doubled about 5 times in its first 300 rounds, but never again.
One now has slightly more than 6500 rds through it. It is a $467 joy to shoot. Accurate, reliable and it just works, as they all do. Next highest round count is my trunk gun with about 2000 rds. Nothing to report except that it, too runs like a watch. Each one got a shakedown after an initial couple hundred rounds. I topped off between 6 and 10 known good mags and fired them as fast as I could pull the trigger and speed reload. None had any problem with that. The trunk gun gets a version of that every time I hit the range, but only 1-3 mags.
I'm the OP in this thread and I'm a bigger fan of PSA then I was then. I recently bought 3 spare PSA Premium BCGs at $69 for spares. For ME they have functioned as well as my Colt, DD, or BCM BCGs. As have the carbines.
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That's all fine but be advised that EVERY PSA component (or any other non-Colt, BCM, Noveske, DD component) has been hacked by the Russians (or the DNC) to fail at the exact moment when you and everyone you've ever loved need it to perform most. :rolleyes:
That's all fine but be advised that EVERY PSA component (or any other non-Colt, BCM, Noveske, DD component) has been hacked by the Russians (or the DNC) to fail at the exact moment when you and everyone you've ever loved need it to perform most. :rolleyes:
Well then, I'll just have to execute a backwards, leaping, somersault behind the nearest cover while activating the spring-loaded forearm holsters securing my twin Taurus 708 dealers of death.
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Just a quick update on my experience with my PSA ARs. I now have 5, and have had no malfunctions, except for 1 Freedom melonited upper on a PSA Defender (ambi selector and sling loops/ "upgraded" trigger) that doubled about 5 times in its first 300 rounds, but never again.
One now has slightly more than 6500 rds through it. It is a $467 joy to shoot. Accurate, reliable and it just works, as they all do. Next highest round count is my trunk gun with about 2000 rds. Nothing to report except that it, too runs like a watch. Each one got a shakedown after an initial couple hundred rounds. I topped off between 6 and 10 known good mags and fired them as fast as I could pull the trigger and speed reload. None had any problem with that. The trunk gun gets a version of that every time I hit the range, but only 1-3 mags.
I'm the OP in this thread and I'm a bigger fan of PSA then I was then. I recently bought 3 spare PSA Premium BCGs at $69 for spares. For ME they have functioned as well as my Colt, DD, or BCM BCGs. As have the carbines.
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This is my experience as well.
Just a quick update on my experience with my PSA ARs. I now have 5, and have had no malfunctions, except for 1 Freedom melonited upper on a PSA Defender (ambi selector and sling loops/ "upgraded" trigger) that doubled about 5 times in its first 300 rounds, but never again.
One now has slightly more than 6500 rds through it. It is a $467 joy to shoot. Accurate, reliable and it just works, as they all do. Next highest round count is my trunk gun with about 2000 rds. Nothing to report except that it, too runs like a watch. Each one got a shakedown after an initial couple hundred rounds. I topped off between 6 and 10 known good mags and fired them as fast as I could pull the trigger and speed reload. None had any problem with that. The trunk gun gets a version of that every time I hit the range, but only 1-3 mags.
I'm the OP in this thread and I'm a bigger fan of PSA now than I was then. I recently bought 3 spare PSA Premium BCGs at $69 for spares. For ME they have functioned as well as my Colt, DD, or BCM BCGs. As have the carbines.
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This is my experience as well.
Nope. Couldn't have happened. Unless it has a "pony" on it or you paid way over a grand, it's trash. Period. :sarcastic:
Nope. Couldn't have happened. Unless it has a "pony" on it or you paid way over a grand, it's trash. Period. :sarcastic:
Is there anything constructive about your post? Seems like you need to let it go.
Is there anything constructive about your post? Seems like you need to let it go.
Sarcasm. I was agreeing with the two individuals who I quoted in my post. And replying to them. AAaaannnnd....wait for it.... I wasn't talking to you, therefore, my post should not concern you.
Eurodriver
02-24-17, 17:47
Sarcasm. I was agreeing with the two individuals who I quoted in my post. And replying to them. AAaaannnnd....wait for it.... I wasn't talking to you, therefore, my post should not concern you.
There is a....wait for it...private messaging feature for you to use should you not want others to reply to your stupidity.
I don't own any of their uppers or lowers, but had bought ammo and mags from them a number of times. Never a complaint, and it's hard to beat some of their sales. Recently, I picked up my first AR "component" from PSA in the form of a Premium BCG. I've discussed it a couple times, but I'll bring it up again here. First, I got a crazy deal on their Premium BCG and a Magpul D60 for $128. The D60 is really what I was after and this was basically like getting a free BCG with the mag. I couldn't pass it up. The BCG overall, in terms of machining, fit and finish is just as good as the Toolcrafts I primarily run. However, there was an issue with the extractor spring. It was either the wrong spring or defective, as it wouldn't "snap" into the extractor. Oddly enough, it extracted rounds just fine when cycling manually, and I'd imagine it would have ran under normal fire. How long? That's anyone's guess.
I reached out to PSA, and alerted them of the problem. Granted, it took about 35-40 minutes on hold to get to a CS rep, but I called at a peak time of the day. I didn't mind, as I was on the road and just had my phone on speaker until someone picked up. Frankly, I was wanting a whole new extractor assembly, but would have settled for a new spring. I didn't even ask for a replacement of the entire BCG, but they insisted that be the resolution. Being that it was just a spare, it didn't bother me that I'd be out the BCG for a week or two; waiting for them to get the return so they could ship the new one. It was pretty impressive that they so willingly offered a replacement, for what was really a minor issue, so I gladly opted for their solution.
From the time they recieved my return till I had the new one in my hand was under a week. The new one was just as nicely machined and finished, and the extractor assembly was perfect. One upside I've not mentioned before kind of happened by mistake. The first BCG was their Logo version. I kind of preferred a no-logo option, but with the bundle deal I was getting, I wasn't going to be picky. Oddly enough, as I hadn't asked for it, the replacement was a non-logo BCG. Still the premium version that's MPI/HP, Chrome Lined, etc. So, while I guess it's an error that they sent one without a logo, it was an error that I was happy with.
Overall, I'm very pleased with both the product and their service. If I were looking towards a cost-conscious build, PSA would be near the top of my list.
And for anyone wanting that same Premium BCG and Magpul D60 bundle deal, they're actually running it this weekend. Even for those that turn their nose up at PSA, if you're in the market just for a D60, that deal has to be pretty enticing.
Magpul D60 & PSA Premium BCG for $128 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-5-56-premium-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-magpul-magazine-pmag-d-60-ar-m4-5-56x45.html)
I'll give my PSA journey experience. 4xPSA Premium BCGs(3 had terrible staking). Missing parts in my last 2 out of 3 orders. It took them over a month each time to fix the issue and even sent the wrong parts to somebody in Ohio. After telling them I was going to have my CC company step in was my order fulfilled. They did eventually get it right. I was shooting a Colt MK18 ModO built by AJ Brown the other day that belonged to my BIL. He was using a PSA premium BCG. Multiple FTEs. I pulled out a spare Colt BCG and it ran like a top. Parts ain't parts. Drops Mic.............
There is a....wait for it...private messaging feature for you to use should you not want others to reply to your stupidity.
Yeah, whatever. I never called anybody stupid though. I'm kinda on double secret probation now with "he who wages jihad on crappy AR's" and I'm probably already banned so, it's been fun. Later
Eurodriver
02-24-17, 18:05
Yeah, whatever. I never called anybody stupid though. I'm kinda on double secret probation now with "he who wages jihad on crappy AR's" and I'm probably already banned so, it's been fun. Later
Nah fam you'd know if you were banned.
I've been banned like six times. It's a riot. Builds character.
Nah fam you'd know if you were banned.
I've been banned like six times. It's a riot. Builds character.
Yeah, well, you (kinda) called me stoopid, so now I hate you and I'm gonna go make up a voodoo doll of what I think you look like and do bad things to it all night long...
Nah fam you'd know if you were banned.
I've been banned like six times. It's a riot. Builds character.
Euro - Have you been banned since thenegativeone was shown the door? It always seemed like you two took vacations together.
Sometimes I get post traumatic stress reading and studying here. :stop:
Yeah, well, you (kinda) called me stoopid, so now I hate you and I'm gonna go make up a voodoo doll of what I think you look like and do bad things to it all night long...
May I put you on my friends list?
I'll give my PSA journey experience. 4xPSA Premium BCGs(3 had terrible staking). Missing parts in my last 2 out of 3 orders. It took them over a month each time to fix the issue and even sent the wrong parts to somebody in Ohio. After telling them I was going to have my CC company step in was my order fulfilled. They did eventually get it right. I was shooting a Colt MK18 ModO built by AJ Brown the other day that belonged to my BIL. He was using a PSA premium BCG. Multiple FTEs. I pulled out a spare Colt BCG and it ran like a top. Parts ain't parts. Drops Mic.............
Well bless your heart. You are clearly snake-bit, Son. Just kept ordering from them? Shit, I'd drop em like a hot rock the second time they burned me.
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Outlander Systems
02-25-17, 10:08
Not gonna lie. I LOLd at this.
Sometimes I get post traumatic stress reading and studying here. :stop:
Well bless your heart. You are clearly snake-bit, Son. Just kept ordering from them? Shit, I'd drop em like a hot rock the second time they burned me.
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I did drop them after they burnt me the second time. Please follow the time line if you can. First order was missing a FCG(I forgave). Second order was fine. Third order was a huge SNAFU. See that is 2 out of 3. Just a simple statistics lesson since it seems a lot of folks on here seem to be having trouble with math lately. Cheers!!
I did drop them after they burnt me the second time. Please follow the time line if you can. First order was missing a FCG(I forgave). Second order was fine. Third order was a huge SNAFU. See that is 2 out of 3. Just a simple statistics lesson since it seems a lot of folks on here seem to be having trouble with math lately. Cheers!!
Now Simpy, you mentioned 4 BCGs out of which 3 had bad staking. Then, Simpy, you mention missing parts in 2 orders. Presumably OTHER orders, not the BCGs. Though you were not clear, that could be as many as SIX (4+2) orders, if you purchased the BCGs separately.
I've heard it can be hard to keep facts straight when you're making shit up to be a good toady. Not you Simpy, just a general observation.
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Now Simpy, you mentioned 4 BCGs out of which 3 had bad staking. Then, Simpy, you mention missing parts in 2 orders. Presumably OTHER orders, not the BCGs. Though you were not clear, that could be as many as SIX (4+2) orders, if you purchased the BCGs separately.
I've heard it can be hard to keep facts straight when you're making shit up to be a good toady. Not you Simpy, just a general observation.
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The BCGs were part of my third order(see #193). I can afford buying more than $300 worth of parts in one order since I'm not on welfare and being fiscally responsible with my money.
The BCGs were part of my third order(see #193). I can afford buying more than $300 worth of parts in one order since I'm not on welfare and being fiscally responsible with my money.
Congrats on getting off the public dole. Everyone in my tax bracket really appreciates it. They tax us to death.
Again, you were unclear Simpy, but I assume you meant you ARE being "fiscally responsible with your money".
Cool story, Simpy. Proud of you since I can only assume you didn't have a father figure to guide you.
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The BCGs were part of my third order(see #193). I can afford buying more than $300 worth of parts in one order since I'm not on welfare and being fiscally responsible with my money.
No one gives a shit.
Proud of you since I can only assume you didn't have a father figure to guide you.
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I actually take offense to that. My father died of cancer 2yrs ago and was hell of a man. I suggest you knock it off and quit being a douche.
I apologize to the Mods. I'm usually level-headed but when keyboard hardasses sitting in their mom's basement make stupid comments, I get a little steamed.
Voodoochild
02-25-17, 14:31
PrevailFI you need to excuse your self from this conversation and do not return.
I actually take offense to that. My father died of cancer 2yrs ago and was hell of a man. I suggest you knock it off and quit being a douche.
I apologize to the Mods. I'm usually level-headed but when keyboard hardasses sitting in their mom's basement make stupid comments, I get a little steamed.
Once again, no one cares.
For God's sake, this thread needs to be closed.
I actually take offense to that. My father died of cancer 2yrs ago and was hell of a man. I suggest you knock it off and quit being a douche.
I apologize to the Mods. I'm usually level-headed but when keyboard hardasses sitting in their mom's basement make stupid comments, I get a little steamed.
Except YOU started with the math bullshit, Simpy. I'm 55, and have lost dozens of friends and relatives. Sorry for your loss, but don't start shit, won't be shit. Especially don't start shit if you can't hang. I'm out.
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