View Full Version : Efficiently in iron sights AR or AK
THIS IS NOT AN AR vs AK DEBATE!
I am wanting to be more proficient using only iron sights. I am stuck deciding between a stock AR-15 with fixed carry handle and plastic hand guards or a stock AK-47. I am wanting to become more accurate, faster reflex and overall better shooter when using standard sights instead of using flip up sights. Nothing against flip up sights! I will be wanting to learn to shoot from a combination of positions, shooting through small openings, from behind obstacles and while moving.
One things I have notices is that the carry handle sight and A2 front sight on an AR-15 is located roughly 1 3/4 inches above to upper receiver and barrel, while the rear sight on an AK-47 is located directly onto of the barrel. Both are adjustable but I am under the impression that the AK is only adjustable for elevation only? Not sure? Please advise. Anyways: I will be using the stock sights for 20-60 yard range.
From a shooting standpoint, would looking down the barrel help with getting on target faster? Both guns are comfortable, light weights and easy to shoulder. I realized that the rear butt stock of the AK is angled down so when you place cheek on top your eye is in perfect alignment with rear sight, while the AR rear butt stock is straight which calls for higher sights. To me, it seems like when I pull an AK up to firing position, (only done this in a store, not real world) its easy to get aligned fast. The AR is fast to get to firing position and takes a second to get sights aligned, but only because I am use to smaller flip up sights that tend to draw the eye "into" alignment.
I have never owned any of these guns or in this configuration. Can anyone shed some light on the subject. What should I consider or look at when making a decision. Do I need to take anything else into consideration? Other than the gun itself, which out of the two would I most likely see results with using only stock sights.
Thanks
Moose-Knuckle
08-27-15, 01:04
Other than the gun itself, which out of the two would I most likely see results with using only stock sights.
The AR.
titsonritz
08-27-15, 01:51
Not quite, both weapon sights are elevated above the barrel. The original reason for the elevation was during the WWII most the weapons of the day had their sites on the barrel, extended rapid fire would generate a heat mirage and blur the sight picture. The solution was elevating the sights above the heat, thus the M16 & AK-47 sight height. In the case of the AK the front sight is clearly well above the barrel, the rear sight is mounted of the front trunnion, the barrel is captive in the lower portion of the trunnion well below the sight.
One things I have notices is that the carry handle sight and A2 front sight on an AR-15 is located roughly 1 3/4 inches above to upper receiver and barrel, while the rear sight on an AK-47 is located directly onto of the barrel.
The AR A2/A3 has a rear sight adjustable for both windage and elevation and a front sight adjustable for elevation. The AK rear sight is adjustable for elevation only. Windage is adjusted via the front sight drum but it is set and not rapidly changed, the front post is adjustable for elevation but is also set and not rapidly changed. The distance you are talking is not a test to either weapons capability.
Both are adjustable but I am under the impression that the AK is only adjustable for elevation only? Not sure? Please advise. Anyways: I will be using the stock sights for 20-60 yard range.
The AK is slightly faster to get on target due to the notch rear sight and shorter sight radius. The AR will be more accurate due to the ghost ring sight and longer sight radius, plus the fact the AR is just a plain more accurate weapon and caliber.
From a shooting standpoint, would looking down the barrel help with getting on target faster? Both guns are comfortable, light weights and easy to shoulder. I realized that the rear butt stock of the AK is angled down so when you place cheek on top your eye is in perfect alignment with rear sight, while the AR rear butt stock is straight which calls for higher sights. To me, it seems like when I pull an AK up to firing position, (only done this in a store, not real world) its easy to get aligned fast. The AR is fast to get to firing position and takes a second to get sights aligned, but only because I am use to smaller flip up sights that tend to draw the eye "into" alignment.
I have never owned any of these guns or in this configuration. Can anyone shed some light on the subject. What should I consider or look at when making a decision. Do I need to take anything else into consideration? Other than the gun itself, which out of the two would I most likely see results with using only stock sights.
Moose-Knuckle gave you the correct short answer.
I'm faster with AK irons when shooting in compromised positions and in low light with a white light, but not enough for me to really care which one I have. AK irons are adjustable either way via front sight, similar to an A2 set on the AR. Front sight is used to adjust windage/elevation for zero, rear sight is used to adjust elevation for range. Also, AK irons aren't directly on the barrel (height-wise). They have the same height-over-bore concerns as AR sights. AR irons are more conducive to precision/longer range shooting, and so is the rifle... If you're shooting from a bench, the AR is the way to go, but if you're going to actually be training with it, it really does not matter much, especially at 20-60 yards. Get whatever you're also going to fight with... A lot of trigger time behind AR irons won't help you as much when you really need your AK's irons, or vice versa.
The AK is slightly faster to get on target due to the notch rear sight and shorter sight radius. The AR will be more accurate due to the ghost ring sight and longer sight radius, plus the fact the AR is just a plain more accurate weapon and caliber.
If we're talking stock 16" rifles, an AK has the same slight radius as an M4. You can do anything to lengthen the sight radius of either one.
wildcard600
08-27-15, 07:19
As others have said, i find the AK to be faster but the AR much easier for precision work in stock form. The tech sight AK rear will vastly improve the precision of the AK, however at a loss of some speed -
http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm
If you want to be fast, practice.
One exercise is to look at the spot on the target you want to hit (don't just look at the whole target- pick a spot) and smoothly mount the rifle so it brings the sights to your eye so that the sights are aligned with that spot. Do it over and over again until it's automatic. Then do the same thing, but close both eyes before you mount the rifle. Practice this until you can mount the rifle with your eyes closed and the sights are aligned with the target when you open them
titsonritz
08-27-15, 15:07
The OP mentioned stock rifle and A2 sights so I am picturing an A2 rifle with a 20" barrel. I may have interpreted that wrong, but either way I find the AK faster to sight up and the AR more accurate.
If we're talking stock 16" rifles, an AK has the same slight radius as an M4. You can do anything to lengthen the sight radius of either one.
As others have said, i find the AK to be faster but the AR much easier for precision work in stock form. The tech sight AK rear will vastly improve the precision of the AK, however at a loss of some speed -
http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm
Fwiw ar sights can be very fast is you look through the ears or over the peep and use the front sight. Good for quick and dirty up close work. Once you get out around 20 yds or so, you have to aim and I find them equal. Once you get past about 50, I find the ar is more accurate faster. I have a heck of a time with ak sights.
My opinion, ymmv.
Also as has been mentioned, both sights are similar hight above the bore.
Everything about the AR is faster than the AK. Even zeroing an AK is painful and imprecise. You can do many improvements to an AK, including lengthening the sight radius, and it will still be worse than an AR. Fundamentals can be practiced on either.
THIS IS NOT AN AR vs AK DEBATE!
I am wanting to be more proficient using only iron sights. I am stuck deciding between a stock AR-15 with fixed carry handle and plastic hand guards or a stock AK-47. I am wanting to become more accurate, faster reflex and overall better shooter when using standard sights instead of using flip up sights. Nothing against flip up sights! I will be wanting to learn to shoot from a combination of positions, shooting through small openings, from behind obstacles and while moving.
One things I have notices is that the carry handle sight and A2 front sight on an AR-15 is located roughly 1 3/4 inches above to upper receiver and barrel, while the rear sight on an AK-47 is located directly onto of the barrel. Both are adjustable but I am under the impression that the AK is only adjustable for elevation only? Not sure? Please advise. Anyways: I will be using the stock sights for 20-60 yard range.
From a shooting standpoint, would looking down the barrel help with getting on target faster? Both guns are comfortable, light weights and easy to shoulder. I realized that the rear butt stock of the AK is angled down so when you place cheek on top your eye is in perfect alignment with rear sight, while the AR rear butt stock is straight which calls for higher sights. To me, it seems like when I pull an AK up to firing position, (only done this in a store, not real world) its easy to get aligned fast. The AR is fast to get to firing position and takes a second to get sights aligned, but only because I am use to smaller flip up sights that tend to draw the eye "into" alignment.
I have never owned any of these guns or in this configuration. Can anyone shed some light on the subject. What should I consider or look at when making a decision. Do I need to take anything else into consideration? Other than the gun itself, which out of the two would I most likely see results with using only stock sights.
Thanks
Elephant, please check your pm's.
I think the AK has much better sights for a fighting rifle.
Aperture sights like the AR has are great on the target range, but suck in the field. Looking at the target through a little peep hole that blocks out a good deal of light is awesome for shooting tiny little groups on nice contrasting color paper targets on a white background in broad daylight. It's a different story in low light, or when the target blends with the background, is partially obscured by cover, or doesn't want to be seen. Using the large 200m aperture helps in these situations, but it comes at the cost of reduced precision (there goes any accuracy advantage over notch soghts) and changes your zero.
I have no combat experience, but I'm better hitting small fast targets with aperture sights than I am with open sights such as the AK is equipped with and I am still pretty precise with "ghost rings". Aperture sights also give me the advantage of only having to track the front sight during recoil
Shoot them both. Nothing beats cross-platform training.
No combat here either. For me the ergonomics, increased accuracy, and weight of an AR makes up for any perceived speed advantage for the AK sights. While not in any sense severe, the recoil of an AK tends to effect my cadence during follow up shots and their accuracy when comparing to an AR. Shoot your irons frequently and you'll be locked in just from muscle memory.
I find the AK to be every so slightly faster at close range. However the 200 aperture on the AR is almost as fast and the small aperture gives me more precision at range. Id say at about 20-50 yards the AK is still slightly faster but I get better hits with the AR. 50-100 yards the AR starts to become faster and still gets better hits. 100-200 yards the AK sights are still very useable but slower. Past 200 yards the AR sights are much much better than the AK sights. 300 meters in the Army was fairly easy and 500 meters wasn't bad, though I didnt get the same amount of 500 range time as my USMC counterparts.
I have found for myself that AR irons feel much more natural than AK. I certainly have more time on an AR, but they just feel much more natural and better pointing.
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