View Full Version : Bystanders Confront Man Hitting Woman in Parking Lot:
Whiskey_Bravo
08-28-15, 07:59
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/28/wild-video-captures-moment-bystanders-confront-man-hitting-woman-in-parking-lot-call-the-cops/
I am not really sure how to really describe this video. Crazy dude beating a fat women with a flashlight that for some reason is in the back of the truck in a parking lot. Bunch of people confront the guy and it goes downhill from there. Some serious Jerry Springer type stuff.
Eurodriver
08-28-15, 09:03
As a matter of principle I will never involve myself when a man is beating up a woman.
As soon as you step in to help, she'll turn on you.
Then both attack you.
Domestic nuttiness is something to stay FAR FAR away from...
Ask any cop.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-28-15, 11:11
As bad as I feel for the women in cases like this, it comes down to they have to decide to leave those guys. You're not going to go in and fix this in 30 seconds. It's a crappy world and I have a wife I actually want to get home to.
Call the cops but I'm not going to get involved in the most uncivil of civil wars.
I've seen it go both ways. But one memory sticks.
Walking through a hotel, saw a man pulling a young woman out of a bar against her will right as a friend and I walked by. She was pulling, struggling to go back in and verbally objecting. My friend sidestepped directly between them and walked the man back a few steps and suggested strongly he turn and walk away. I took her by the elbow a few steps and suggested she make a phone call for someone to escort her to her room. This may not have been as civil a resolution, had not two marines on leave and acquaintances stumble through the door with much merriment clap us on the back, ask how we were and who was this guy? The gentleman said he thought she needed help, but was ok, and left.
It was the most bizarre, brazen, thing I ever saw someone do in public.
Seems to me there is a story like this involving George Patton...
It was talked about in the movie bearing his name but had factual backing.
Averageman
08-28-15, 13:14
Getting in on something like that is what Cops get paid to do.
I would be hard pressed to get involved or between these two on a bet. I can imagine this was something very trivial that escalated and could be measured by the liquid ounces of alcohol consumed by the two of them.
Well that, or perhaps the last corn muffin at the Golden Corral Buffet.
Those Mag lights may be old school, but they leave a heck of a mark.
I think that it is funny how everyone here says that you must be able to protect yourself and your because the police will never make it in time to do anything but a homicide report.
I find this very interesting.
Why the change in mind set when it APPEARS to be a DV? I watched the video and for all we know he was Buffalo Bill looking for a new skin suit.
I think that it is funny how everyone here says that you must be able to protect yourself and your because the police will never make it in time to do anything but a homicide report.
I find this very interesting.
Why the change in mind set when it APPEARS to be a DV? I watched the video and for all we know he was Buffalo Bill looking for a new skin suit.
There are times when I'll hang my ass out in the wind for a complete stranger and there are times when I won't. Most DV issues tend to be in the "won't" category. Too many unknowns for me.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-28-15, 14:05
Well, it would have been a very large skin suit.
'You and yours' sums it up all very well. Pretty obvious it's a DV case and why should I risk my life because she's made bad decisons? DV is horrible, but she's the only one that can fix the situation. Call the cops, tell the guy the cops are on the way.
It seems to me that those guys are in pretty loose legal authority to go after the guy when he's in his cab, or jumping I the back to break the window. You aren't defending anyone at that point. Sure, it would be fun and do a soul good to tune that fat bastard up.
As soon as you step in to help, she'll turn on you.
Then both attack you.
Domestic nuttiness is something to stay FAR FAR away from...
Ask any cop.
One of the worst ass kickins I ever got... Pulling a man off of a women!
Well, it would have been a very large skin suit.
Now that made me laugh...... :lol:
Hmm. I give you guys credit, you are honest about not being good citizens. Our perceptions of civic duty differ.
Moose-Knuckle
08-28-15, 14:33
Well, it would have been a very large skin suit.
Buffalo Bill wasn't a small guy.
Moose-Knuckle
08-28-15, 14:41
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/28/wild-video-captures-moment-bystanders-confront-man-hitting-woman-in-parking-lot-call-the-cops/
I am not really sure how to really describe this video. Crazy dude beating a fat women with a flashlight that for some reason is in the back of the truck in a parking lot. Bunch of people confront the guy and it goes downhill from there. Some serious Jerry Springer type stuff.
Holy cankles Batman! :eek:
Yeah, I wouldn't have thrown down with tubs. Call 911, document on phone cam, etc. Once he got into the cab the guys began hitting him. The assault was over at that point, the victim was breathing and conscious. Let the pros do their work. It would be different if she was unresponsive and he was smashing her skull into paste with the mag light. What would those guys have done had he started in hitting them in the head with his light or pulled out a shotgun from the cab of his pickup? Risk vs. reward and all that.
Never get involved. No matter what, you're the bad guy.
Some people deserve each other.
Hard won experience has shown me that these 'battered wives' get off on it on some level. Be it drama, or thinking they 'gots a real man'.
It's like cats and trees. Mittens got herself up there, she can get herself down.
JBecker 72
08-28-15, 15:34
Man the harpoons.
Hmm. I give you guys credit, you are honest about not being good citizens. Our perceptions of civic duty differ.
Seriously? OK, so what happens when you go Captain America and discover the "fight" was because she smoked all their meth? What happens you step in to save the day and the guy is still holding so she stabs you because she thinks you are after their drugs?
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-28-15, 19:37
That chick was nowhere near hot enough for the risk...
But seriously, especially if you are CCWing, you are going to get in the middle of that CF? My life and everything Ive worked for risked for that chick?
Seriously? OK, so what happens when you go Captain America and discover the "fight" was because she smoked all their meth? What happens you step in to save the day and the guy is still holding so she stabs you because she thinks you are after their drugs?
Nobody said anything about going all Captain America. Also, as a fun fact I also noticed that no one commented on the fact that the red-blooded American citizens who did take action seemed to be English as a second language.
But back on topic - you see an apparently defenseless woman, being assaulted by a man using a metal object, she is asking for help and is obviously pretty much at the mercy of her assailant. You think the answer is do nothing. You live with your decisions, I'll live with mine.
Outlander Systems
08-28-15, 19:48
Nobody said anything about going all Captain America. Also, as a fun fact I also noticed that no one commented on the fact that the red-blooded American citizens who did take action seemed to be English as a second language.
But back on topic - you see an apparently defenseless woman, being assaulted by a man using a metal object, she is asking for help and is obviously pretty much at the mercy of her assailant. You think the answer is do nothing. You live with your decisions, I'll live with mine.
I'm right there with you, bro.
Never get involved. No matter what, you're the bad guy.
Some people deserve each other.
Hard won experience has shown me that these 'battered wives' get off on it on some level. Be it drama, or thinking they 'gots a real man'.
It's like cats and trees. Mittens got herself up there, she can get herself down.
Let's see next your next line, rape victims deserve it, they were asking for it.
There are myriad reasons that women stay in abusive relationships, the two you list are so far down the list that they are the rare exception, not even close to the norm.
Most of the folks you deal with in these situations are not rocket scientists, often they have made one bad decision after another, in many cases, like this one, they are poor physical specimens, but they are humans and deserve basic human respect, in this case that means protection by those of us strong enough to protect.
Outlander Systems
08-28-15, 19:57
Let's see next your next line, rape victims deserve it, they were asking for it.
There are myriad reasons that women stay in abusive relationships, the two you list are so far down the list that they are the rare exception, not even close to the norm.
Most of the folks you deal with in these situations are not rocket scientists, often they have made one bad decision after another, in many cases, like this one, they are poor physical specimens, but they are humans and deserve basic human respect, in this case that means protection by those of us strong enough to protect.
I can't speak for anyone else, but where I come from, I don't care if she's Hillary Clinton, a "man" don't get to go around beating on a lady.
That chick was nowhere near hot enough for the risk...
But seriously, especially if you are CCWing, you are going to get in the middle of that CF? My life and everything Ive worked for risked for that chick?
I don't want to get crossways with you again, but damn, I guess we just have different viewpoints about our duties as men and citizens. Most importantly citizens, my wife would have been all college world series on that ****er with her softball bat.
Please feel free to discuss the benefits and dangers of intervention without the snark.
Eurodriver
08-28-15, 20:52
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/27/he-loved-life-la-police-officer-fatally-shot-after-responding-to-call/
Police officer killed this Wednesday responding to a domestic dispute.
Be safe defenders of women.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-28-15, 20:56
Looks like it isn't their first time in the lime light for a fight of disputed blame:
http://kfor.com/2014/12/31/husband-accused-of-attacking-his-wife-with-hammer/
Sounds like that was before they lost that house.
We all know that Mrs. Inf26 can keep you in line ;)
I think people see a woman getting beaten, which is only the surface. You intervene this time and it seems there will just be another time after this. That's not saving someone, that becomes a hobby.
Outlander Systems
08-28-15, 20:59
Looks like it isn't their first time in the lime light for a fight of disputed blame:
http://kfor.com/2014/12/31/husband-accused-of-attacking-his-wife-with-hammer/
Sounds like that was before they lost that house.
We all know that Mrs. Inf26 can keep you in line ;)
ban hammers and Mag-Lights NOW
Well, first of all, nobody asks to be raped. Nor does anyone "have it coming". It's a horrid crime and if one has ever been involved in the mere investigation of one; it can be stomach turning and emotionally scarring.
I know we all come from a litany of Type A backgrounds be it military, LE, so on. And most of us were privileged with good upbringing and value systems. We want to help and we don't want to see others suffer.
Respectable and commendable but these days are so litigious and so much liability incurred over no possible gain.
I was once told "be a good witness". If on duty officers show up, and you have involved yourself then you become an unknown variable.
Nobody likes unknown variables especially if a CCW is produced.
Two unseemly types going at it, that's their problem. The only understandable time I could see cursory intervention being an option is if a kid is involved and it looks like something really far out.
Use good judgment. Make good decisions. You only know a fraction of what's going on. Could be a kidnap. Could just be a bratty kid being a pain.
Police Officers get put under intense scrutiny for their actions with how they handle, or mishandle, domestic violence or disturbances.
They can justify being involved because it is their job. Once you, the private citizen, involves himself you open a can of worms.
The subjects will all turn on you and a jury, be it civil or criminal, may not appreciate your good intentions. You have to live with yourself longer than you have to live with these other people.
BLUF whatever you decide to do or not do is your decision that you will be held accountable for if there are unintended consequences or unforseeable outcomes.
Ask a working police what happens when the cuffs go on the aggressor. Even a rookie learns quick that the woman turns 9 times out of 10, doesn't want to give a statement, won't testify, etc.
That's not a scenario that I personally would subject myself to on my own time. No benefit. Lots of risk. Lots of liability.
And again when police show up....you're either a good witness at a distance, or you're a variable in a potentially criminal investigation.
Personal decisions that I cannot and would not judge others for making because when you get involved you're rolling the dice and don't even have chips on the table.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-28-15, 21:59
Well, now that I have received my "infraction", I'll just leave this here:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/edmundburk377528.html#3mDgOukUwWXjh2wd.99
But then again, "good men" don't stand by and do nothing. Good men step up to challenge and defend those who cannot defend themselves. If you can sleep well at night knowing that you watched a human being beaten with a maglight and did nothing to stop it, I fear for the race of American Man.
That's a strong opinion.
Being constructive about it, discretion isn't a bad thing.
If it goes south and you end up on national, if not international, news as getting indicted due to actions incurred on an ambiguous domestic scenario that you were an extraneous, self-involving party to; I think you would have a radical change of perspective.
I am not a big Massad Ayoob fan. However, he has done a lot of research on these matters and published quite a few texts on the matter. Despite my personal, and admittedly slight, misgivings to some of his approach; he is considered an expert witnesses on the matter and has a proven record in court.
His Lethal Force course in the day was good stuff and addressed these matters.
State vs (your last name), is something you could live a lifetime without seeing on court documents.
What we intend to do and what actually ends up happening can be two way different things and at a certain point you can't go back or remove yourself from the event.
The POS was a former deputy.
former Oklahoma County sheriff’s deputy is accused of beating his wife with a flashlight and driving his pickup truck at the men who tried to stop him.
http://kfor.com/2015/08/24/accused-abuser-caught-on-tape-is-former-sheriffs-deputy/
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-28-15, 22:30
The POS was a former deputy.
http://kfor.com/2015/08/24/accused-abuser-caught-on-tape-is-former-sheriffs-deputy/
Crap, LSHD might have had to shoot the (former) deputy...... ;) You don't shoot the deputy, it's in the frickin' song....
LSHD, we're not saying do nothing or explain away his attack- but that's two homeless people, one of them hungry the other ornery, and my fists or my gun are not what are going to make a difference in that woman's life.
That's a strong opinion.
Being constructive about it, discretion isn't a bad thing.
If it goes south and you end up on national, if not international, news as getting indicted due to actions incurred on an ambiguous domestic scenario that you were an extraneous, self-involving party to; I think you would have a radical change of perspective.
I am not a big Massad Ayoob fan. However, he has done a lot of research on these matters and published quite a few texts on the matter. Despite my personal, and admittedly slight, misgivings to some of his approach; he is considered an expert witnesses on the matter and has a proven record in court.
His Lethal Force course in the day was good stuff and addressed these matters.
State vs (your last name), is something you could live a lifetime without seeing on court documents.
What we intend to do and what actually ends up happening can be two way different things and at a certain point you can't go back or remove yourself from the event.
Difference between me and Ayoob - I testify for free - LOL.
Crap, LSHD might have had to shoot the (former) deputy...... ;) You don't shoot the deputy, it's in the frickin' song....
LSHD, we're not saying do nothing or explain away his attack- but that's two homeless people, one of them hungry the other ornery, and my fists or my gun are not what are going to make a difference in that woman's life.
Shooting isn't the only answer to such situations.
If you are smart and a good communicator you can break most stuff up by reminding folks of the consequences of their behavior and, estimated arrival time of the POPO. It has worked for me in scenarios from brawls at dance clubs and throw downs at public parks. Variations of that often work in uniform, if you haven't already MF'ed the guy or started screaming.
If all else fails, I can always flash them my USMC tat.
Nobody said anything about going all Captain America. Also, as a fun fact I also noticed that no one commented on the fact that the red-blooded American citizens who did take action seemed to be English as a second language.
But back on topic - you see an apparently defenseless woman, being assaulted by a man using a metal object, she is asking for help and is obviously pretty much at the mercy of her assailant. You think the answer is do nothing. You live with your decisions, I'll live with mine.
Ya know, I'll be willing to make a call, but I don't know that I'm jumping in the ring. For all I know at the time, she's getting beat because she smoked all their meth.
I will tell you a story from personal experience. About 1991 I was coming home from South Beach at around 4am from a night of clubbing with my gf. As we were coming up I-95 I noticed some young chick standing next to her car on the side of the road. Thinking that "she won't last 5 minutes out here" I pulled over to see if I could help or if she needed a ride to make a phone call (this was before everyone had a cell phone).
As a general rule I had a handgun with me because I was going to Miami. Didn't have my CCW yet so I just carried it in a holster between the seats. I was probably 20 feet behind her car and about the time I got up to the front of my car several large black men come pouring out of her car. I had recently returned from Iowa to Florida and the first thought to pop in my head was "Why the hell aren't THEY helping her" and this was quickly followed by the realization that I was about to get ****ed up.
I ran back to my car, reached in the open window and grabbed the gun from between my seats and drew a line on the first guy as he skidded to a stop about 6 feet away from me. I didn't see if any of them had guns or not, I was pretty tunnel visioned on the first guy. Some of them probably had weapons.
After what seemed like a very long time of everyone standing really still and trying to figure out what was going to happen next I finally said "OK you are getting back in your car...I'm getting back in my car...and everyone is leaving." Thankfully that is what happened.
Living in Iowa I never left somebody stranded on the side of the road. If you do that in the winter they can actually die. The night before my brothers wedding at around midnight I actually turned around to go get some kids I passed who were broken down and run them 20 miles back into town which meant I got home around 2am.
But after my "Miami" experience I've always thought about what could have happened to me and my gf if I didn't get very, very lucky. Had some other close calls while living in Ft. Lauderdale to help drive the point home that you better be damn sure before you interject yourself into a bad situation.
So yeah, you live with your decisions and I'll live with mine.
We all know that Mrs. Inf26 can keep you in line ;)
If only you knew.
Ya know, I'll be willing to make a call, but I don't know that I'm jumping in the ring. For all I know at the time, she's getting beat because she smoked all their meth.
I will tell you a story from personal experience. About 1991 I was coming home from South Beach at around 4am from a night of clubbing with my gf. As we were coming up I-95 I noticed some young chick standing next to her car on the side of the road. Thinking that "she won't last 5 minutes out here" I pulled over to see if I could help or if she needed a ride to make a phone call (this was before everyone had a cell phone).
As a general rule I had a handgun with me because I was going to Miami. Didn't have my CCW yet so I just carried it in a holster between the seats. I was probably 20 feet behind her car and about the time I got up to the front of my car several large black men come pouring out of her car. I had recently returned from Iowa to Florida and the first thought to pop in my head was "Why the hell aren't THEY helping her" and this was quickly followed by the realization that I was about to get ****ed up.
I ran back to my car, reached in the open window and grabbed the gun from between my seats and drew a line on the first guy as he skidded to a stop about 6 feet away from me. I didn't see if any of them had guns or not, I was pretty tunnel visioned on the first guy. Some of them probably had weapons.
After what seemed like a very long time of everyone standing really still and trying to figure out what was going to happen next I finally said "OK you are getting back in your car...I'm getting back in my car...and everyone is leaving." Thankfully that is what happened.
Living in Iowa I never left somebody stranded on the side of the road. If you do that in the winter they can actually die. The night before my brothers wedding at around midnight I actually turned around to go get some kids I passed who were broken down and run them 20 miles back into town which meant I got home around 2am.
But after my "Miami" experience I've always thought about what could have happened to me and my gf if I didn't get very, very lucky. Had some other close calls while living in Ft. Lauderdale to help drive the point home that you better be damn sure before you interject yourself into a bad situation.
So yeah, you live with your decisions and I'll live with mine.
That is a good story but has very little in common with what we are discussing, a fight, in the middle of a sparsely occupied parking lot, between a man with a metal object striking a woman who is clearly overmatched and asking for help.
I guess I just assume some degree of situational awareness and tactical acumen from folks who routinely post about EDC gear, SHTF and EOTWAWKI.
Rather than drive on by I'd think anyone could call 911; if you can project any kind of presence you could try to get the guy to quit hitting on the lady by talking to him, from outside the reactionary gap, as I posted earlier. If that fails situation dictates. My moral code would not allow me to leave or stand idly by while someone is being beat and asking for help.
Consequences be damned. What's right IS right. If I see a woman being beaten, I'm getting involved. I have my loved ones to go home to and nothing is nearer to my heart or mind.
But thinking this scenario through- knowing I did nothing, when that could have been my wife in some F'd up situation in need of help and one of you who did nothing in that situation- I just can't ignore how wrong that is on so many levels.
Just as freedom isn't safe, doing what's right isn't safe either. But both are more than a little important.
I'm stepping in; not acting like the vatos in this video, but I'm getting involved until the police I called show up to handle the situation. If they don't show and things escalate- well that's life; got to deal with it the best you can- doing your best to de-escalate the situation and keep things under whatever control you can until proper channels can take over. Things could go sideways on you, and likely would- I just couldn't walk away.
Moose-Knuckle
08-29-15, 01:30
Also, as a fun fact I also noticed that no one commented on the fact that the red-blooded American citizens who did take action seemed to be English as a second language.
Fun fact? How do you know "the red-blooded American citizens" were in fact US citizens and I fail to see the relevance of this in this particular incident.
But back on topic - you see an apparently defenseless woman, being assaulted by a man using a metal object, she is asking for help and is obviously pretty much at the mercy of her assailant. You think the answer is do nothing. You live with your decisions, I'll live with mine.
Defenseless? According to the husband/boyfriend she was hitting him first with her arm brace that contained a steel rod/frame. Perhaps he was merely defending himself from her initial attack and these red-blooded American citizens only happened upon them after the fact. And I don't recall the female asking for their help, she yelled for them to call 911. And I have not read any member's posting that they would do nothing, merely instead of getting into a physical altercation with a 400 lb man they would call the police.
Another question I have is how do we know the men who speak English as a second language called 911? It appears one of them was using his phone to record the whole thing while the other ones decided to "fight" fatty which resembled the infamous cripple fight between Timmy and Jimmy.
I can't speak for anyone else, but where I come from, I don't care if she's Hillary Clinton, a "man" don't get to go around beating on a lady.
Whoa, whoa. Let's not go overboard, now. Hillary is no lady. I wouldn't interfere with a repeat career criminal getting their ass beat.
Moose-Knuckle
08-29-15, 01:50
I guess I just assume some degree of situational awareness and tactical acumen from folks who routinely post about EDC gear, SHTF and EOTWAWKI.
Well if it's SHTF/EOTWAWKI then situational awareness, tactical acumen, and common sense would demand one to avoid such incidents all together as there is no rule of law/911/LE/paramedics/court to prosecute/etc. Also if it's SHTF it would smell of an ambush such as the one Steyr described so if one felt inclined to save the damsel in distress they would simply neutralize the threat with a singe gun shot to the dome and not get into a fight with someone three times their body weight.
That is a good story but has very little in common with what we are discussing, a fight, in the middle of a sparsely occupied parking lot, between a man with a metal object striking a woman who is clearly overmatched and asking for help.
The commonality is me putting myself at serious risk for a situation I don't fully understand. To be frank, I owe nothing to anyone. Philosophically I'm an objectivist. I'm obligated to do nothing. Now that doesn't mean I won't do something to help somebody, I can't count the number of times I've done that in my life, even at my own expense. But it's not mandatory, I decide which iffy situation I'm going to get involved in and which one I'm going to leave alone.
Here's another one more directly related. When living in downtown Ft. Lauderdale two guys dressed in black chased and tackled a black guy into my garbage cans. I came out the door with a dog and a handgun seeing the two attackers as my primary aggressors. They saw the gun and instantly produced badges and yelled "cops...we're cops...don't shoot."
The entire time, the black guy was on the ground in my yard yelling for help claiming he was being attacked. Turns out he was just a drug dealer that shook loose from a raid a few blocks over.
My moral code would not allow me to leave or stand idly by while someone is being beat and asking for help.
I fully and completely understand that. I lived a similar way for some time and I did a lot of things that I later learned to regret. I risked myself and my freedoms for people I later found out very much weren't worth the effort. I'm just way more cautious now. I have people I am responsible for taking care of and they take priority.
Of course that doesn't mean I still won't do something stupid tomorrow for somebody I don't know at all. I just like to know more about a situation before I decide to go riding in like the Lone Ranger and rescue people.
I can't speak for anyone else, but where I come from, I don't care if she's Hillary Clinton, a "man" don't get to go around beating on a lady.
I must be a feminist, because Hillary would be on her own. She's already taken enough from me.
The commonality is me putting myself at serious risk for a situation I don't fully understand. To be frank, I owe nothing to anyone. Philosophically I'm an objectivist. I'm obligated to do nothing. Now that doesn't mean I won't do something to help somebody, I can't count the number of times I've done that in my life, even at my own expense. But it's not mandatory, I decide which iffy situation I'm going to get involved in and which one I'm going to leave alone.
Here's another one more directly related. When living in downtown Ft. Lauderdale two guys dressed in black chased and tackled a black guy into my garbage cans. I came out the door with a dog and a handgun seeing the two attackers as my primary aggressors. They saw the gun and instantly produced badges and yelled "cops...we're cops...don't shoot."
The entire time, the black guy was on the ground in my yard yelling for help claiming he was being attacked. Turns out he was just a drug dealer that shook loose from a raid a few blocks over.
I fully and completely understand that. I lived a similar way for some time and I did a lot of things that I later learned to regret. I risked myself and my freedoms for people I later found out very much weren't worth the effort. I'm just way more cautious now. I have people I am responsible for taking care of and they take priority.
Of course that doesn't mean I still won't do something stupid tomorrow for somebody I don't know at all. I just like to know more about a situation before I decide to go riding in like the Lone Ranger and rescue people.
Good points. There are massive risks to wading into situations where one has no idea what is and isn't as it appears.
However, I do understand the urge to act quickly and be a good samaritan.
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