View Full Version : Different pistol grip technique
Today we did a reciprocity qualification shoot. This is a cold bore qualification shoot, we are not there to teach or train, officers who fail are cycled through basic firearms training. Abilities and technique were, as usual, all over the place.
One officer had a rather unique grip that I had never seen before - strong hand grasping weapon as normal, support hand pretty much normal EXCEPT the index finger of the support hand was extended straight along the front frame rail of the weapon.
This did seem to have the advantage of getting the mass of the hand higher, however this shooter, who was one that did not qualify, seemed to be sympathetically squeezing with his support hand index finger.
I asked the instructor assigned to this shooter what was up and was told that the officer had told him the grip was one taught in Army SORT/SRT training and that his agency's instructor had learned the technique at FLETC.
Anyone have any info on this? Rationale?
Thanks.
I haven't seen it taught by anyone in a handgun course. I would be concerned about the finger interfering with the slide lock lever or slide movement during the firing cycle. I have seen a few people index their support hand index finger alongside a vertical grip equipped carbine handguard, but never on a handgun. I saw it taught in a shotgun course back in the 1970's, but not recently.
I am interested to know who teaches the technique for pistol.
however this shooter, who was one that did not qualify
That should be a clue.
I haven't seen it taught by anyone in a handgun course. I would be concerned about the finger interfering with the slide lock lever or slide movement during the firing cycle. I have seen a few people index their support hand index finger alongside a vertical grip equipped carbine handguard, but never on a handgun. I saw it taught in a shotgun course back in the 1970's, but not recently.
I am interested to know who teaches the technique for pistol.
I've seen this quite a bit with shotguners. It's pretty useful for point shooting with a shotgun.
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That should be a clue.
Well, yeah, but I'm curious if anyone knows about the origins and rationale. Most of the guys we see come through reciprocity are not good shots, in every bunch there are a couple whose gun handling skills are so bad you wonder how they ever got certified in whatever state they are coming from.
Leaveammoforme
08-29-15, 00:31
Was taught by an Aimpoint trainer to do this with support hand on a carbine.
Rationale was (if you have decent hand-eye cordination) you can point at something without really focusing on it with your eyes. So when pointing parallel to the bore you drive to a next target better.
I don't think this technique would transition well to handgun though.
ETA:
Simple exercise to demonstrate concept,
Find an object in your peripheral vision and point at it. Now look at it, you will be pointing near or even directly at it.
Put that digit parallel to a bore and you get the idea.
Was this qualification for retired LEO?
Yeah I got you. My smart ass came out. I always find it funny when people talk about or try to use "different or unique" techniques and then suck at shooting. I've never seen this with a handgun. Only with a vert grip on carbines.
Leaveammoforme
08-29-15, 11:43
Was this qualification for retired LEO? Nope.
Yeah I got you. My smart ass came out. I always find it funny when people talk about or try to use "different or unique" techniques and then suck at shooting. I've never seen this with a handgun. Only with a vert grip on carbines.
I hear you. We've all seen them!
Was this qualification for retired LEO?
No. In our state if you are an LEO from another state coming to work, you go through a one-week course to acquaint you with our statutes and a review of constitutional law (search and seizure) as well as firearms qual. If you pass the test at the end of the week and qual you are good to go. If you fail the test you have to go through basic. If you don't qual you have to go through firearms with a basic class.
We use the same qual as for our retired officers, we call it 'No Shooter Left Behind.' It is hit miss scoring on the FBI 'Q' Target, 50 rounds, 10 of which are from the 25. Since it takes 35 hits to score, you can miss all 10 rounds from the 25 and still qualify. One of the shooters I had yesterday did just that.
It is what it is.
My concern would be less control and steering as a previous poster observed versus all the fingers on the front of the grip. There are very few competitors who even put their support index finger around the front of the trigger guard these days. Biggest exception to this is Angus Hobdell of CZ fame. Even though he shoots this way, he tells his students NOT to shoot like him. Not that I know every top USPSA shooter, but I can't think of one who points his finger like you describe.
My concern would be less control and steering as a previous poster observed versus all the fingers on the front of the grip. There are very few competitors who even put their support index finger around the front of the trigger guard these days. Biggest exception to this is Angus Hobdell of CZ fame. Even though he shoots this way, he tells his students NOT to shoot like him. Not that I know every top USPSA shooter, but I can't think of one who points his finger like you describe.
Yeah, I didn't think driving the gun was the reasoning behind it.
If you've watched the average shooter who used the finger around the front of the trigger guard technique, most of the time their finger comes loose on recoil, they learned from seeing pictures of guys doing it, or were taught by someone who didn't explain the purpose and technique.
I'm wondering if this isn't some compromise, we didn't think it all the way through, technique for use with WML's?
I was befuddled, because I could see absolutely no added utility. The idea that it allows the shooter to get the meat of his hand higher up on the frame for recoil control was the only thing I could see, and that was a stretch.
Any chance, since purportedly it came from the Army and/or FLETC, that it is an alternate grip to aid folks with shorter or weaker fingers in the DA pull by using two fingers?
I'm grasping at straws here, guys.
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