View Full Version : What is the Army's current "issue" optic?
***Reason I post this in GD is that it's not to debate the specifics of an optic but to see what is Aug 2015's current issue***
Speaking for infantry units. Is it still mostly ACOGs or are they back to the Aimpoint? How about the T-1 Aimpoints? I know when OEF and OIF were in their early stages the standard issue was the M68 (Aimpoint Comp M2). Then with units going to Afghanistan the ACOG seemed to be the most widely issued. Just wondering about what it is as of right now.
I guess another good question is what is the issued optic in infantry OSUT at Benning? That might give a good idea as to what the "standard" might be.
Mostly Aimpoints still. Its a mix between M2s and M4s with ACOGs usually for the officers and some senior NCOs. Never seen a micro with a conventional unit. I went through OSUT in 2011 and most had Comp M2s, with a few irons. Nothing else.
Digital_Damage
08-30-15, 16:32
A better question would be who gives a crap what optics are issued... Use what works.
Eurodriver
08-30-15, 17:06
A better question would be who gives a crap what optics are issued... Use what works.
ABNAK has BTDT. His question is out of curiosity, not because he wants to play make-believe at the range.
Still M-68's for training purposes at Benning it appears.
USMC_Anglico
08-30-15, 17:41
Mostly Aimpoints still. Its a mix between M2s and M4s with ACOGs usually for the officers and some senior NCOs. Never seen a micro with a conventional unit. I went through OSUT in 2011 and most had Comp M2s, with a few irons. Nothing else.
Bingo, winner. M2s are almost gone from big Army, not sure about TRADOC. I've seen M4s with battery compartment top and bottom. ACOGs are the same that have been issued for years.
Bingo, winner. M2s are almost gone from big Army, not sure about TRADOC. I've seen M4s with battery compartment top and bottom. ACOGs are the same that have been issued for years.
The support units like my BN still have mostly M2s unfortunately. We never have those batteries on hand and the labeling on their adjustment knobs are dumb.
we have M2's and the ACOG's... never get to use them... they sit in the box and collect dust...
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We still have M68s. Mostly M2s, some M4s. Sourcing batteries for the M2 is a PITA if supply isn't around.
Anybody heard any rumors on what the next optic will be? A year or two ago there was a lot of chatter about the squad common optic or SCO program, looking to replace everything with one system. Many people were certain it would be a 1-6 but that seems less certain with some new stuff that's hit the market.
I highly doubt a LPV will ever be the primary issue optic for the Army. I would pick a T1. The variable scopes are way too complicated for 95% of the Army.
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BrigandTwoFour
09-01-15, 23:44
Anybody heard any rumors on what the next optic will be? A year or two ago there was a lot of chatter about the squad common optic or SCO program, looking to replace everything with one system. Many people were certain it would be a 1-6 but that seems less certain with some new stuff that's hit the market.
This appeared in a presentation at the National Defense Industry Association (NDIA) conference back in June of this year. The presentation was given by Army Lieutenant Colonel Terry Russell, the product manager for individual weapons.
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/screen-shot-2015-06-20-at-12-30-51-pm.png
There were several other very interesting presentations given. You can find them here. (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2015smallarms/)
This appeared in a presentation at the National Defense Industry Association (NDIA) conference back in June of this year. The presentation was given by Army Lieutenant Colonel Terry Russell, the product manager for individual weapons.
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/screen-shot-2015-06-20-at-12-30-51-pm.png
There were several other very interesting presentations given. You can find them here. (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2015smallarms/)
Wow, thanks! I recognize some names there. Very interesting presentations indeed.
In '07-'12 we were using Aimpoint Comp M2's & M4's (M68's), ACOG's and M145's. LT, PSG, SL's had ACOG's, some TL's had ACOG's, and everyone else had M68's. The 249's and 240's were either iron sights or M145's. Personal optics were optional and based on PSG/LT/SL approval.
In '07-'12 we were using Aimpoint Comp M2's & M4's (M68's), ACOG's and M145's. LT, PSG, SL's had ACOG's, some TL's had ACOG's, and everyone else had M68's. The 249's and 240's were either iron sights or M145's. Personal optics were optional and based on PSG/LT/SL approval.
That's about what I've seen from '09-Present. Mostly M4/M4S rather than M2s and quite a few ACOGs. Most of our 249s and 240s are iron sights with M145 Elcans available. Our long guns have Mk4s on top
That's about what I've seen from '09-Present. Mostly M4/M4S rather than M2s and quite a few ACOGs. Most of our 249s and 240s are iron sights with M145 Elcans available. Our long guns have Mk4s on top
With the Aimpoints still a majority compared to the ACOGs? If so very interesting.
I've seen pics and film from Army infantry units in Afghanistan from the last several years and it appeared just about everyone had an ACOG. Maybe CONUS it's back to officers and NCO's using them (?).
USMC_Anglico
09-02-15, 19:26
The support units like my BN still have mostly M2s unfortunately. We never have those batteries on hand and the labeling on their adjustment knobs are dumb.
Do you still have M16's (A2 or A4) or M4's?
USMC_Anglico
09-02-15, 19:29
With the Aimpoints still a majority compared to the ACOGs? If so very interesting.
I've seen pics and film from Army infantry units in Afghanistan from the last several years and it appeared just about everyone had an ACOG. Maybe CONUS it's back to officers and NCO's using them (?).
alot of equipment used in the long wars is theater specific equipment, not part of the units MTOE. Units pick it up in theater and leave it behind when they redeploy.
Nightstalker865
09-02-15, 20:01
Checked with a buddy in the 82nd. He was saying their line guys are running ACOG's across the board on M4's now days and have been since 2009 or so. Also that there are AimPoints and EoTech's in the arms room for the guys that would prefer to use one of them instead. 240's and 249's are running ELCAN's exclusively. M110's, M24's, M107's, and EBR's are all running variables.
These were the primary load outs their guys are running. Scout sections are substituting in other platforms depending on mission requirements.
Figured this would give you a good info on what the conventional guys are using. SOF units of course are a whole different story.
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With the Aimpoints still a majority compared to the ACOGs? If so very interesting.
I've seen pics and film from Army infantry units in Afghanistan from the last several years and it appeared just about everyone had an ACOG. Maybe CONUS it's back to officers and NCO's using them (?).
My unit did not deploy to Afghan until a couple months after I got out but I would assume an ACOG majority for Afghan because of engagement distances; like Anglico and Nightstalker have said as well as varying on unit and mission role.
Hell my unit did not even have M4's until right before my first deployment in '08. I show up out of OSUT and get sent to JRTC and when we get back from that hell hole and start packing up crap for deployment LMTV's show up with boxes full of brand new M4's. That was a nice day.
Do you still have M16's (A2 or A4) or M4's?
M4s. I only know of two smaller support units that still have the muskets here.
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Checked with a buddy in the 82nd. He was saying their line guys are running ACOG's across the board on M4's now days and have been since 2009 or so. Also that there are AimPoints and EoTech's in the arms room for the guys that would prefer to use one of them instead. 240's and 249's are running ELCAN's exclusively. M110's, M24's, M107's, and EBR's are all running variables.
These were the primary load outs their guys are running. Scout sections are substituting in other platforms depending on mission requirements.
Figured this would give you a good info on what the conventional guys are using. SOF units of course are a whole different story.
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Great info, thanks!
Another data point from a currently serving Infantry officer I know:
Light units will usually have ACOGs. And MGOs on their SAWs.
Mech and others usually M-68.
yugo308guy
10-01-15, 18:15
Man, I feel old! Only optics we had from '86-'90 were iron sights. Unless we had night vision optics needs.
Man, I feel old! Only optics we had from '86-'90 were iron sights. Unless we had night vision optics needs.
The optic push (at least for the 25th) was from division level in 2006, prior to the division's deployment to Iraq that summer. Every unit received either M68s (Comp M2s) or TA01NSN Acogs, I received somewhere around 200 M68s and 150 Acogs in my arms room right after we transitioned to a ASB that January. At the time, only the flight companies in the AVN brigade had M4s, the rest were M16A2s; which meant gooseneck mounts for M68s and Acogs mounted to carrying handles.
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