View Full Version : Hawaiian Secession
I came across this and thought it was interesting. I assume it would make Hawaii similar to Puerto Rico.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-on-the-right/090415-769842-obamadislike-of-mckinley-is-deep.htm
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Moose-Knuckle
09-15-15, 01:06
Some in Hawaii have wanted this for a very long time, this comes up every now and again. Others realize that if this happens they will be under the CHICOM's flag or someone worse.
Hawaii is essentially a third-world country. The US Military and tourism keep them afloat.
It would be a third world country, it's not at the moment though. But yeah, there are lots of people that want it. There are still more that either don't or are indifferent enough not to push either way. Nothing will happen, at least not for a long time. If it did, the economy would be obliterated until China came in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eurodriver
09-15-15, 06:20
But yeah, there are lots of people that want it.
Other than in the the Puna District, I wouldn't say "lots". Most are smart enough to realize what the US leaving would mean for their way of life.
There is a reason Honolulu is a big ass city, and islands like Tahiti are a bunch of grass huts.
Hawaii has always felt a lot like the third world to me. Just a lot more Starbucks and a lot more Japanese tourists.
Much like Native Americans here, Native Hawaiians are a shrinking minority there. There are many parallels to observe between the two. I'll leave it to the thinker here to figure it out.
An awful lot of the Native Hawaiians live in squalor... is it because of lack of opportunity or perhaps something else?
Moose-Knuckle
09-15-15, 10:29
Hawaii has always felt a lot like the third world to me. Just a lot more Starbucks and a lot more Japanese tourists.
Last time I was in Honolulu the wife and I was staying at the same resort Obama was meeting with other leaders at the BIO Pacific Rim Summit. City officials were literally bulldozing tent cities built by the homeless and clearing them all from the route the leaders would be taking from the airport to the resort. Keeping up with appearances and all that lol.
I couldn't believe the difference between islands.. Oahu was a shithole... every public beach we went to was trashed and full of graffiti. On Hawaii (Big Island) they were pretty much spotless.
Obama just finished visiting Alaska. The homeless issue in Anchorage AK is huge and yet they were all hauled off somewhere the day the president was in town.
Last time I was in Honolulu the wife and I was staying at the same resort Obama was meeting with other leaders at the BIO Pacific Rim Summit. City officials were literally bulldozing tent cities built by the homeless and clearing them all from the route the leaders would be taking from the airport to the resort. Keeping up with appearances and all that lol.
I couldn't believe the difference between islands.. Oahu was a shithole... every public beach we went to was trashed and full of graffiti. On Hawaii (Big Island) they were pretty much spotless.
Obama just finished visiting Alaska. The homeless issue in Anchorage AK is huge and yet they were all hauled off somewhere the day the president was in town.
Agree with both of these posts. The 'tent cities' which were literally entire downtown Honolulu parks filled with tents were astounding to me. Their solution? Turn the lights off so you can't see them. ROFL Transients would just walk across 45mph 2 & 3 lane roads wherever they felt like it.
Honestly, Honolulu and most of Oahu felt like LA but more expensive and fewer kick ass cars to drool over. Maui was much nicer and a far more 'Hawaiian experience' as a whole. Glad we didn't spend much time on Oahu and the lion's share of our trip was spent on Maui. If we went back we wouldn't even stay on Oahu unless our friend is out of town and gave us her place to stay at for free.
To the point someone made earlier about it being a 3rd world country.... maybe that's what they want. If you've ever been the natives are a special breed and I don't think they would see reverting to a 3rd world country as such a negative thing. I think most are irked by our western way of thinking & living and would appreciate a step back.
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-15, 11:36
Obama just finished visiting Alaska. The homeless issue in Anchorage AK is huge and yet they were all hauled off somewhere the day the president was in town.
How do transients survive Alaskan winters? I would have thought this was a self correcting problem.
A few years ago I was watching Alaska State Troopers on NATGEO and was shocked to learn about the number of Hawaiian gang bangers that Anchorage had. Apparently a bunch of them are shipped off to Anchorage from the Big Island (Hawaii) with the hope that they will give up their "gang lifestyle".
:suicide:
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-15, 11:38
To the point someone made earlier about it being a 3rd world country.... maybe that's what they want. If you've ever been the natives are a special breed and I don't think they would see reverting to a 3rd world country as such a negative thing. I think most are irked by our western way of thinking & living and would appreciate a step back.
I think you are on to something here. Same with immigrants/illegal aliens from shit hole countries that invade the US or Western Europe just to turn their new home into the same shit hole they escaped from.
I think you are on to something here. Same with immigrants/illegal aliens from shit hole countries that invade the US or Western Europe just to turn their new home into the same shit hole they escaped from.
It's not just the immigrants. Think of all the natural born citizens here that turn their bed into a shithole... Detroit anyone? Gary, Indiana anyone? and etc...
It's not just the immigrants. Think of all the natural born citizens here that turn their bed into a shithole... Detroit anyone? Gary, Indiana anyone? and etc...
Ever spend time on an Indian Reservation?
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-15, 13:43
It's not just the immigrants. Think of all the natural born citizens here that turn their bed into a shithole... Detroit anyone? Gary, Indiana anyone? and etc...
This too . . .
It's called de-evolution. I had a government teacher back in jr. high that said mankind on a whole was on a course back to tribalism. Turns out, he was right.
Ever spend time on an Indian Reservation?
All the time...
It says "casino" out front.
I know what you mean though.
.....the pacific will rise again...?
Ever spend time on an Indian Reservation?
Whole bunches.
The Government should figure what it costs them to run the BIA for ten years, take 33% of that sum, figure out who is on the tribal rolls, give them their portion, and be done with it. Not quit that simple, but damned near.
The system as is perpetuates poverty and the welfare mentality.
Considering the way they joined the union I can't say I would blame many of them for wanting too.
SilverBullet432
09-16-15, 20:32
Paging Honu..
Last time I was in Honolulu the wife and I was staying at the same resort Obama was meeting with other leaders at the BIO Pacific Rim Summit. City officials were literally bulldozing tent cities built by the homeless and clearing them all from the route the leaders would be taking from the airport to the resort. Keeping up with appearances and all that lol.
Obama just finished visiting Alaska. The homeless issue in Anchorage AK is huge and yet they were all hauled off somewhere the day the president was in town.
Hysterical they even bother with that. Anyone who's ever been to the white house and monuments knows that area of DC is chock full of the homeless living in the parks surrounding our nation's most famous buildings and monuments. Shit there's even a few tent citys under bridges and such between downtown/foggy bottom and georgetown.
Being one of probably two or three people on this board born and raised in Hawaii (although I know Wake, Eurodriver, and many others have been or are stationed there)...
Native Hawaiians have a point about the annexation of Hawaii - it was literally taken at gun point by the United States. But it's not much different in concept than how the rest of the United States was taken from its native inhabitants. Native Hawaiians and those who really connect with them want a return to a simpler way of life. They're very spiritual and honor the land and environment more than anything, so it follows that a return to a more "third world" status is implicit in their ideal post-American-Occupation Hawaii.
The homeless problem is a combination of the ridiculous cost of living and relatively poor economy. The economy really is based on tourism more than anything, with military personnel also bringing in quite a bit of money as well. During a recession, no one goes on vacations anymore and so Hawaii suffers and suffered pretty hard. Also as noted, the temperature is nice year-round, so unlike some parts of the country where the homeless can die in winter or summer, they can basically survive outside forever in Hawaii. There's also nowhere for them to go as it's a bunch of islands. A good way to reduce the problem would be a free one way ticket anywhere they want to go along with some free clothes and a shower and shave.
Native Hawaiians wanting to secede aren't thinking things through. The USA will never allow a state to secede... the last time someone tried, a whole lot of people died and they didn't succeed. Hawaii is one of the most strategic locations in the world, if not THE most strategic location. It's pretty much right in the middle of the biggest ocean in the world. No nation would give it up freely, and if the US somehow pulled its military bases after Hawaii became its own sovereign nation, any one of the other nations on the Pacific Rim would likely scoop it up. Going down to a territory like PR is just a bad idea - you get taxation without representation.
Hawaii isn't a third world country by any definition, to include that it isn't its own country. Honolulu, which takes up a huge amount of Oahu, is just as modern as many cities in the United States. It's way more urban, cleaner, and safer than many many cities I've lived in CONUS. And even if Hawaii did become its own country, it would still retain tourism and likely have US Military bases on it like many sovereign nations have.
But bottom line, Native Hawaiians make up less than 10% of the population. Just one more reason it won't happen any time soon.
To clarify, I mean the entirety of Hawaii will never go back to pure Hawaiian rule. There might be concessions to the native peoples like reservations or the like, including dealing with the Hawaiians like other Native American tribes. But unless the US Federal Government backs a racial-based cleansing of Hawaii of non-natives, tons of people who are born and live there but are not of Hawaiian blood would favor staying with America. Including me, even though I moved away.
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-15, 23:12
Also as noted, the temperature is nice year-round, so unlike some parts of the country where the homeless can die in winter or summer, they can basically survive outside forever in Hawaii. There's also nowhere for them to go as it's a bunch of islands. A good way to reduce the problem would be a free one way ticket anywhere they want to go along with some free clothes and a shower and shave.
When we were on O'ahu I told my wife that if I ever choose to be a bum, I'm doing it in Honolulu for the reasons you mentioned above and that I could fish for my food in any direction.
How do transients survive Alaskan winters? I would have thought this was a self correcting problem.
A few years ago I was watching Alaska State Troopers on NATGEO and was shocked to learn about the number of Hawaiian gang bangers that Anchorage had. Apparently a bunch of them are shipped off to Anchorage from the Big Island (Hawaii) with the hope that they will give up their "gang lifestyle".
:suicide:
Most of the homeless in Anchorage and Fairbanks are Alaskan Natives and they are pretty tough. An alarming number of them do die in the winters, though. On the coldest days there are churches and other shelters that open their doors for the very bad weather. I would call any of the "transients". They leave their Native villages and live on the streets pretty permanently. They don't move anywhere.
A bunch of what was on Alaska State troopers was less than factual. Anchorage has a huge Pacific Islander population. There are some trouble makers in the bunch, but most of them are hard working folks. I interact with them at many of the vendors and freight companies I deal with and I enjoy being around them. Most came to Alaska looking for opportunities they weren't getting on the islands they moved from.
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-15, 23:50
Most of the homeless in Anchorage and Fairbanks are Alaskan Natives and they are pretty tough. An alarming number of them do die in the winters, though. On the coldest days there are churches and other shelters that open their doors for the very bad weather. I would call any of the "transients". They leave their Native villages and live on the streets pretty permanently. They don't move anywhere.
Yeah I can only image that would be one of the last places I want to be homeless. I'm surprised they don't go into the bush and live subsistence off the grid. That's got to be better than eating out of dumpsters but there is probably a level of substance abuse.
A bunch of what was on Alaska State troopers was less than factual. Anchorage has a huge Pacific Islander population. There are some trouble makers in the bunch, but most of them are hard working folks. I interact with them at many of the vendors and freight companies I deal with and I enjoy being around them. Most came to Alaska looking for opportunities they weren't getting on the islands they moved from.
I never knew there were any Pacific Islanders their, kind of shocked when I saw the show considering their dwindling numbers in Hawaii and the fact they are not acclimated to such weather. That's like putting a Norwegian in Arizona lol. Guess they would rather try to start over in Alaska than the mainland/lower forty eight.
been a long time at this wont happen Japan will take it over and Australian folks own a ton of land there also ?
I am from Maui moved away in my 40s but miss it and loved it but had to move for health reasons but it has its 3rd world charms and each island is different also lived on Lanai in the 90s and my fav island by far or was heard it has changed a lot from my friends still living there :)
we talked about moving before though so our kids would have better opportunities and its always there if they want to go back :)
but I remember the secession thing when I was young even :)
wilson1911
09-17-15, 18:58
Have any of you watched the documentary with the Queen of Hawaii ? It tells of how we confiscated the island. Rich land owners 4tw. I was really saddened by it.
We as a nation, are conquerors. All in the name of democracy and manifest destiny. We look at Europe as war mongering regions, always changing shape, fighting among each other for hundreds of years.
It makes me sad of how the world will look upon us in 100 years.
Richest nation in history
Most powerful military in the world
Most military bases
The cry of democracy justifying ourselves
American gov' feared by all
I'm just glad we are not after world domination.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-17-15, 19:57
Have any of you watched the documentary with the Queen of Hawaii ? It tells of how we confiscated the island. Rich land owners 4tw. I was really saddened by it.
We as a nation, are conquerors. All in the name of democracy and manifest destiny. We look at Europe as war mongering regions, always changing shape, fighting among each other for hundreds of years.
It makes me sad of how the world will look upon us in 100 years.
Richest nation in history
Most powerful military in the world
Most military bases
The cry of democracy justifying ourselves
American gov' feared by all
I'm just glad we are not after world domination.
Pretty much every nation in history has conquered someone or someplace else at some point in their history, that's how they became a nation usually. There are varying levels obviously. Even the island peoples conquered other islands or villages. It's just how shit is done. There would be no nations much less civilized nations if some level of door kicking and burning hadn't happened.
I hate to say it but how Hawaii was treated will not affect how we are viewed 100 years from now.
Richest nation in history
Most powerful military in the world
Most military bases
The cry of democracy justifying ourselves
American gov' feared by all
And the problem is.....?
If we didn't take on so much riff raff and busted more heads and weren't so nice all the time; We'd have it made
Much like Native Americans here, Native Hawaiians are a shrinking minority there. There are many parallels to observe between the two. I'll leave it to the thinker here to figure it out.
An awful lot of the Native Hawaiians live in squalor... is it because of lack of opportunity or perhaps something else?
Ice, it's a helluva drug.
Eurodriver
09-17-15, 20:45
It's not just the immigrants. Think of all the natural born citizens here that turn their bed into a shithole... Detroit anyone? Gary, Indiana anyone? and etc...
Thank you. Let's not pretend like good, red blooded, American flag flying citizens aren't living like shit either. It's not just "them pesky brown folks".
http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/thumbnails/20110914_westonTrailerPark%5B1%5D.jpg
This thread makes me miss Bu Laia.
wilson1911
09-17-15, 22:44
If we didn't take on so much riff raff and busted more heads and weren't so nice all the time; We'd have it made
google foo--> what was called "Operation Wetback". It's a start. If you don't like your country, change it , don't bring your crap to mine. <--- Trumps new campaign motto.
Yeah. So what's the problem?
I'm noy trying to give you a hard time but are you like against it or for it?
Thank you. Let's not pretend like good, red blooded, American flag flying citizens aren't living like shit either. It's not just "them pesky brown folks".
This thread makes me miss Bu Laia.
It always cracks me up when residents of Alaska blame new comers to the state for being slobs... Hell, some of the worst crap hole neighborhoods I have seen are third and fourth generation Alaskans and white.
This thread makes me miss Bu Laia.
Wow I haven't heard that name in a decade.
wilson1911
09-18-15, 00:20
Yeah. So what's the problem?
I'm not trying to give you a hard time but are you like against it or for it?
It's one thing to be conquered, militarily which I understand.........but from watching the doc some years ago and having to listen to her tell her story, it was sad. I am for secession for any state. There is no law contrary to this despite political belief. While it does require the strength to break those chains. One country takes over another, it is the way of the world.
However, I can see it thru the native Hawaiians views so to speak. How would you like living in your own country as a minority and with no power to do anything about it ? They view it as an occupation. Have you ever gone to the Caribbean ? The local people do not like it either, but they are powerless to do anything about it as well.
I feel as you do about the trash in our country, we have let far to many in. Don't let the door hit you in the xxx on the way out either tho. Leave, but don't come back either.
Now, if only California and New York would jump on board too !!
Moose-Knuckle
09-18-15, 00:49
Pretty much every nation in history has conquered someone or someplace else at some point in their history, that's how they became a nation usually. There are varying levels obviously. Even the island peoples conquered other islands or villages. It's just how shit is done. There would be no nations much less civilized nations if some level of door kicking and burning hadn't happened.
I hate to say it but how Hawaii was treated will not affect how we are viewed 100 years from now.
Thank you.
I'm sick of hearing about the evil white man. When the Mongol hoards swept across Asia they killed EVERYONE in their wake. When the Huns stormed the Steppes of Eurasia they erased whole people groups from the histories. The Zulu Nation anyone? So on and so forth, it's the human condition, and all that.
Anyone who has looked backed into the history of Hawai'i would realize that until King Kamehameha unified the tribes/islands via bloodshed, war was business as usual. Cannibalism was also practiced.
In review of the historical record the US of A has played pretty nice.
I think China would step all over every country in the world if we gave Hawaii up. But from my limited personal experience here, I think this place has the highest percentage of genuinely nice people I've ever been to.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
brickboy240
09-18-15, 10:46
Meh...let them go if they want to leave.
Hawaii is nothing but a playground for rich white people and a hotbed of leftism.
Will we miss them? Probably not.
Meh...let them go if they want to leave.
Hawaii is nothing but a playground for rich white people and a hotbed of leftism.
Will we miss them? Probably not.
Kind of nice to have a place to park the odd Army Division, Pacific Fleet, MEU, Marine lAir Wing, Naval Air Wing or Air Force Command when you aren't using them.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.