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7.62NATO
09-20-15, 21:14
This culture is what's being imported into Europe as we speak. Of course, some will argue that relativism absolves the culprits of any wrongdoing; we've heard plenty of that here on M4C.


“At night we can hear them screaming, but we’re not allowed to do anything about it,” the Marine’s father, Gregory Buckley Sr., recalled his son telling him before he was shot to death at the base in 2012. He urged his son to tell his superiors. “My son said that his officers told him to look the other way because it’s their culture.”


Rampant sexual abuse of children has long been a problem in Afghanistan, particularly among armed commanders who dominate much of the rural landscape and can bully the population. The practice is called bacha bazi, literally “boy play,” and American soldiers and Marines have been instructed not to intervene


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?_r=1

26 Inf
09-20-15, 21:35
I imagine I'd be either discharged or in Leavenworth.

Benito
09-20-15, 21:40
This is nothing new, but absolutely revolting nonetheless.
Truly disgusting. I would kill anyone raping children, and would demand a goddamn thank you for my troubles.

Firefly
09-20-15, 21:41
You're either gonna be real people or you aint.

This whole "culture" crap is a joke and smacks of what some NAMBLA loser would say

jc000
09-20-15, 21:41
It's all here: http://www.vice.com/video/this-is-what-winning-looks-like-full-length.

Willful importation of what is the antithesis to the gifts of the western world. Complete incompatibility with our constitution and our culture.

Who will hold those responsible accountable? None of us it seems.

HKGuns
09-20-15, 21:54
I read that earlier today and found it disgusting. It makes you wonder what normal is in these third world countries. It also speaks loudly to the arming of the public to defend themselves from these animals.

7.62NATO
09-20-15, 21:58
I read that earlier today and found it disgusting. It makes you wonder what normal is in these third world countries. It also speaks loudly to the arming of the public to defend themselves from these animals.

We're importing into the US about 250,000 of these animals per year.

source: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/14/federal-data-u-s-annually-admits-quarter-of-a-million-muslim-migrants/

Their leader is calling his people home.

source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

Whiskey_Bravo
09-20-15, 22:53
Absolutely disgusting. F that culture. I am not sure I could handle listening to screams every night.

SteyrAUG
09-20-15, 22:54
Well thankfully nobody did anything worse like put a dog collar and them and photograph them naked.

Cause that would be "Gitmo" type torture and we all know that is much worse than raping children.

Firefly
09-20-15, 23:04
What Would Kurtz Do?

Moose-Knuckle
09-21-15, 02:07
This is nothing new, but absolutely revolting nonetheless.
Truly disgusting. I would kill anyone raping children, and would demand a goddamn thank you for my troubles.

Correct on all accounts,.

Eurodriver
09-21-15, 05:32
Seen it before. Insurgents (and just regular dudes we searched for that matter) in OIF always had shitty cam footage of them doing things to little boys.

Nothing we could do about it.

jpmuscle
09-21-15, 05:57
Tell me again why we didn't just lay waste to their country?

Alex V
09-21-15, 06:15
Tell me again why we didn't just lay waste to their country?

Cause it's aleady a wasteland of rocks, rubble and garbage? They live in the Stone Age, can't take 'em back much further.

daddyusmaximus
09-21-15, 06:32
This is nothing new, but absolutely revolting nonetheless.
Truly disgusting. I would kill anyone raping children, and would demand a goddamn thank you for my troubles.

Amen. I would too.

Now to my second point... Not trying to front you out, but why is "****" (F word) a word that the cuss sensor cuts out, and the Lord's name in vain not?

We should be able to drop the F-bomb.

Sensei
09-21-15, 08:35
Boy, I sure am glad that the current Administration's moral relativism is having no effect on our troops.

Let this be fair warning to anyone headed to MEPS to enlist, or applying to an academy or a ROTC program. There is a very good chance that you are going to become part of the problem. Not because you are a bad person, but because your leadership is morally bankrupt. Think about this carefully before you sign that contract.

26 Inf
09-21-15, 10:09
From the Hadith:

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done."

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death." (Note the implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife).

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

Reliance of the Traveller, p17.2 - "May Allah curse him who does what Lot's people did."

So, I thinking we are just being good guests if we carry out the instructions of 'the Prophet.'

glocktogo
09-21-15, 10:24
Cause it's aleady a wasteland of rocks, rubble and garbage? They live in the Stone Age, can't take 'em back much further.

You can dump them in the dirt if you find them raping little boys. :mad:

We've abdicated any claim to moral superiority over these savages, when we stand by and do nothing when faced with one of the most basic human rights violations in existence. Ordering our soldiers to do nothing is an illegal order IMO.

Any commander telling their troops to ignore this is a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I am truly ashamed of them and weep for what this country has become. :(

Whiskey_Bravo
09-21-15, 11:39
You can dump them in the dirt if you find them raping little boys. :mad:

We've abdicated any claim to moral superiority over these savages, when we stand by and do nothing when faced with one of the most basic human rights violations in existence. Ordering our soldiers to do nothing is an illegal order IMO.

Any commander telling their troops to ignore this is a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I am truly ashamed of them and weep for what this country has become. :(


This. It's absolutely a disgrace.

Eurodriver
09-21-15, 11:52
We're importing into the US about 250,000 of these animals per year.

source: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/14/federal-data-u-s-annually-admits-quarter-of-a-million-muslim-migrants/

Their leader is calling his people home.

source:


Except that this was going on under Bush as well.

Sensei
09-21-15, 11:53
You can dump them in the dirt if you find them raping little boys. :mad:

We've abdicated any claim to moral superiority over these savages, when we stand by and do nothing when faced with one of the most basic human rights violations in existence. Ordering our soldiers to do nothing is an illegal order IMO.

Any commander telling their troops to ignore this is a disgrace to the uniform they wear. I am truly ashamed of them and weep for what this country has become. :(

Assuming the story is true, it's worse than that. We didn't just ignore it or do nothing. We actually empowered the rapists and afforded them the sanctuary of our bases (where many of the rapes were alleged to occur).

What shocks me is that only one of our troops had wherewithal to contact his Congresscritter, and this happened only after being drummed out of the military. Hell, I got Congressional Complaints almost monthly as a doc in A-Stan for refusing to refill soldier's prescription narcotics / sleep aids in theater, or refusing to evacuate Pvt. Snuffy for chronic back pain. And it wasn't just the soldiers who would write letters to Congress - their stateside family members would also complain to their representatives. Yet, nobody thought to tell their congressman when the COC fails to act on children being raped on US posts. Out-frick'en-standing...:(

Digital_Damage
09-21-15, 12:56
Says the priest to the alter boy... just saying...

SOWT
09-21-15, 13:22
Funny how those of us deployed in Central America would have been drummed out for turning a blind eye to rape and human trafficking, but it's ok in an Islamic Society.

We need to leave that shit hole and let the Taliban and A-Q duke it out.

Dienekes
09-21-15, 13:41
Thou shalt not be going all judgemental on our heroic allies. Now shut up.

rero360
09-21-15, 14:21
Thankfully I never saw it or any evidence of it during my time there, or Iraq for that matter, I most certainly would be in Leavenworth if I had.

Sensei
09-21-15, 15:23
Says the priest to the alter boy... just saying...

You lost me there. So, it's OK for the military to turn a blind eye to child rape because the Catholic Church did/does? Last I checked, pedophile priests operated in the shadows and most of their crimes didn't come to light until decades after the fact. What is described in the article is very public and open with boys heard screaming at night on US bases. I never heard of a Bishop or Cardinal keeping a boy on a leash in public like these Afghan warlords.

Digital_Damage
09-21-15, 15:48
You lost me there. So, it's OK for the military to turn a blind eye to child rape because the Catholic Church did/does? Last I checked, pedophile priests operated in the shadows and most of their crimes didn't come to light until decades after the fact. What is described in the article is very public and open with boys heard screaming at night on US bases. I never heard of a Bishop or Cardinal keeping a boy on a leash in public like these Afghan warlords.

Merely proves a point that it does not only happen over there and it is not restricted to a certain religion.

Further more, the fact remains it is not our country not our rules. Perhaps we need to focus cleaning up our own house before trying to tell others what is right and wrong.

glocktogo
09-21-15, 16:40
Merely proves a point that it does not only happen over there and it is not restricted to a certain religion.

Further more, the fact remains it is not our country not our rules. Perhaps we need to focus cleaning up our own house before trying to tell others what is right and wrong.


I fail to see why we should turn a blind eye to this because of where it happens? We ruined careers and sent Jerry Sandusky to prison forever over something similar. I don't care if it's a Catholic Priest, a migrant worker (that TX rancher beat him to death for trying to rape his daughter and he was hailed a hero), a Muslim Imam or a Afghan soldier, I would remove a molester from a child with every ounce of force I could muster. It would take every ounce of will I possessed to not beat them to death with my bare hands. Anyone trying to stop me would probably be seriously hurt and if necessary, I would use lethal force to accomplish the task at hand.

I don't care what country it's happening in either. Asking our soldiers to do any less than intervene is unconscionable. We can ask our troops to sacrifice their lives if necessary, but asking them to sacrifice their immortal souls is beyond the pale. :(

Sensei
09-21-15, 16:47
Merely proves a point that it does not only happen over there and it is not restricted to a certain religion.

Further more, the fact remains it is not our country not our rules. Perhaps we need to focus cleaning up our own house before trying to tell others what is right and wrong.

Yes, child rape occurs in every country and in every society. That was never in debate nor is germane. However, it is our rules when it comes to what happens on our bases. I also contend that right vs. wrong is readily apparent in this case.

OH58D
09-21-15, 20:29
Funny how those of us deployed in Central America would have been drummed out for turning a blind eye to rape and human trafficking, but it's ok in an Islamic Society.

We need to leave that shit hole and let the Taliban and A-Q duke it out.
Excellent point. I saw the same thing as well in Central America during my time there in '84 and part of '85. The difference was we weren't nation building as an occupier. We were running guns and inserting personnel to assist local elements. I've had my fill with these 3rd World Hell Holes. Whether we're there or not, savages will do what savages do. Maybe I've gotten a little isolationist in my golden years. I still believe in power projection on a global scale, but occupying these places seems out of the question.

Cagemonkey
09-21-15, 21:17
Protecting Pediphiles and Poppy Fields/Opium. US foreign policy makes me feel so proud. Disgusting.

usmcvet
09-21-15, 21:47
This unfortunately is old news. It's absolutely disgusting.

Belloc
09-22-15, 01:18
Says the priest to the alter boy... just saying...

The ignoring of the problem by the higher ups is similar, just like the ignoring and covering-up of the problem by local and municipal governments in the public schools, which statistically is much worse, but the problem in the Catholic Church was homosexual pederasty. Over 90% of cases of molestation were of adolescent boys by homosexual males.

As Ann Coulter puts it.

Despite the growing media consensus that Catholicism causes sodomy, an alternative view -- adopted by the Boy Scouts -- is that sodomites cause sodomy. (Assume all the usual disclaimers here about most gay men not molesting boys, most Muslims being peaceful, and so on.)

It is a fact that the vast majority of the abuser priests -- more than 90 percent -- are accused of molesting teen-age boys. Indeed, the overwhelmingly homosexual nature of the abuse prompted The New York Times to engage in its classic "Where's Waldo" reporting style, in which the sex of the victims is studiedly hidden amid a torrent of genderless words, such as the "teen-ager," the "former student," the "victim" and the "accuser."
I suppose she will need to revisit her article and remove the "adopted by the Boy Scouts" comment.

What is happening in Afghanistan however seems to be predominantly pedophilia. Very young boys, many between 7-9 years old, are taken and held as sex slaves until they're teenagers. And this is something the military and all of western society has turned a blind eye too for a long time. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php



I recall reading that one of the ways the Taliban came to power was that they would rescue these kidnapped children from their abductors, usually drug warlords, and return them back to their families so as to earn their support and the support of the people.

glocktogo
09-22-15, 09:48
I just want to know what ever happened to stomping a mudhole in some deserving savage asses and walking away wiping our boots? Why do we always succumb to the urge to "help" them? :(

Dienekes
09-22-15, 12:27
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil--is for good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke--

Sensei
09-22-15, 12:43
I just want to know what ever happened to stomping a mudhole in some deserving savage asses and walking away wiping our boots? Why do we always succumb to the urge to "help" them? :(

There is a growing trend toward excusing evil, criminal behavior as an illness - something that is to be treated rather than punished or destroyed. It has its roots in the moral relativism that you already confronted in this thread.

Outlander Systems
09-22-15, 12:54
There is a growing trend toward excusing evil, criminal behavior as an illness - something that is to be treated rather than punished or destroyed. It has its roots in the moral relativism that you already confronted in this thread.

This.

I'd be busting rocks at Leavenworth for the rest of my life if this shit happened on my watch.

Policy be damned.

Army regs be damned.

These dudes would be fabbing up steel jaws out of leaf springs, after plucking chunks of dentistry out of my shit kickers.


Live for nothin' - or die for somethin' - John James Rambo

glocktogo
09-22-15, 13:03
There is a growing trend toward excusing evil, criminal behavior as an illness - something that is to be treated rather than punished or destroyed. It has its roots in the moral relativism that you already confronted in this thread.

I agree! The prophylactic treatment should be an injection of heavy metals, 62 grains at a time.

Moose-Knuckle
09-22-15, 13:38
There is a growing trend toward excusing evil, criminal behavior as an illness - something that is to be treated rather than punished or destroyed. It has its roots in the moral relativism that you already confronted in this thread.

This is how it starts.

First the act is reclassified from being something reprehensible to an "illness". After an enough time and it's been socially accepted it's then reclassified again as an "alternative lifestyle", after that it's a "preference", then granted normality.

It wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was first a criminal act, then diagnosed as a mental disorder. And just look at where we are now.

It's a Brave New World and all that . . .

glocktogo
09-22-15, 14:57
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/254523-us-commander-no-policy-to-ignore-sexual-abuse-in-afghanistan

So the good General thinks that if it isn't "policy", it isn't true? A lie by omission is still a lie. I don't believe Campbell and I don't believe Betraeus either.

The Dept. of Defense doesn't have any credibility on the topic of sexual abuse. They'd do well to remember that.

Todd00000
09-22-15, 15:13
From massive gun confiscations to ignoring what the civilized world considers a crime we no longer export our values.

Jellybean
09-22-15, 18:21
This.

I'd be busting rocks at Leavenworth for the rest of my life if this shit happened on my watch.

Policy be damned.

Army regs be damned.
...

Well, I don't see the need for a trip to Leavenworth.
After all, it's dangerous enough over there to survive that just to take a trip to jail. Folks get killed left and right all the time what with all the snipers and IEDs.
It's unfortunate, but we can't protect our allies from everything....

7.62NATO
09-22-15, 19:40
Indifference to sex abuse led to the murder of three Marines. Damn shame.


lawsuit charges that the U.S. military’s indifference to the crime of Afghanistan officials sexually abusing boys led to the killings of three Marines in 2012 by the youthful companion of a corrupt Afghan police chief.

Despite warnings that the chief, Sarwan Jan, and his boy entourage should be expelled from Forward Operating Base Delhi, Marine Corps commanders let him stay. On Aug. 10, one of his “tea boys” walked into the base gym and gunned down the three Marines, including Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. of Long Island, whose parents are fighting out a lawsuit in U.S. District Court.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/22/us-military-indifference-to-afghan-sex-abuse-led-b/

7.62NATO
09-22-15, 19:56
Had this Green Beret addressed the issue more, shall we say, quietly, he may not have found himself being discharged.


Army rejects appeal from soldier discharged after confronting accused Afghan rapist


Even as the U.S. military denies reports that American troops were told to ignore Afghan child abusers, an 11-year Green Beret who was ordered discharged after he confronted an alleged rapist was informed Tuesday that the Army has denied his appeal.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/army-rejects-appeal-from-soldier-kicked-out-after-confronting-accused-afghan/?intcmp=hpbt2

Outlander Systems
09-23-15, 05:20
The SF dude's story you linked to is what put me over the top on this yesterday.

For Christs sake, issue an Artivle 15 and be done with it. Railroaded out? **** that.

You are absolutely right, and no need for a trip to the Kansas big house.

Dude just needed to go "bye bye", or "night night."

I don't see how you can win hearts and minds, while you're turning a blind eye towards people, in positions of authority, abusing/terrorizing the populace.

SFC Martland was doing what SF does best; Liberating the Oppressed.

Some limp-dicked ass-kissing lifer probably pissed his pants, and proceeded to ruin SFC Martland.

What a ****ing shitshow.


Had this Green Beret addressed the issue more, shall we say, quietly, he may not have found himself being discharged.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/army-rejects-appeal-from-soldier-kicked-out-after-confronting-accused-afghan/?intcmp=hpbt2

jpmuscle
09-23-15, 05:50
This is how it starts.

First the act is reclassified from being something reprehensible to an "illness". After an enough time and it's been socially accepted it's then reclassified again as an "alternative lifestyle", after that it's a "preference", then granted normality.

It wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was first a criminal act, then diagnosed as a mental disorder. And just look at where we are now.

It's a Brave New World and all that . . .
I got in Sooooo many arguments with my professors over this very topic in grad school... It was insanity IMO the position these folks held on the matter. Like that was the dark ages of the profession or something. Ridiculous..

Sensei
04-29-16, 07:13
SFC Martland will now be retained by the Army.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/04/29/in-dramatic-reversal-army-retains-green-beret-who-roughed-up-child-rapist-in-afghanistan-n2155193

Outlander Systems
04-29-16, 07:21
**** yeah!


SFC Martland will now be retained by the Army.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/04/29/in-dramatic-reversal-army-retains-green-beret-who-roughed-up-child-rapist-in-afghanistan-n2155193

glocktogo
04-29-16, 08:47
It's about damned time someone shoved a giant schlong up their asses and forced them to do the right thing. :mad:

sevenhelmet
04-29-16, 13:06
I'm sure his career has been completely unaffected by this whole episode. :rolleyes:

ramairthree
04-29-16, 14:39
The problem with Western Society is that we are caught in two jaws of a vise.

Candy ass Christianity What Would Jesus Do is one jaw and
Burn our culture to the ground progressive moral relativity no culture is superior to another is the other.

If only King Alfred had found out the Pope screwed him over and he said screw it, I am not enforcing Christianity let the Vikings have at it.
We would have colonies on the moon and Mars, be more technologically advanced, have no free loaders, Islam would be a foot note,
And about the only difference would be we have "what would Thor do" bumper stickers and hammer emblems instead of fish symbols on our bumpers.

Firefly
04-29-16, 15:14
Aye.

We focus on so much bullshit and ignore the real shit

FromMyColdDeadHand
04-29-16, 15:15
It's about damned time someone shoved a giant schlong up their asses and forced them to do the right thing. :mad:

An odd comment for what the soldiers are said to have thwarted....

Moose-Knuckle
04-29-16, 16:30
SFC Martland will now be retained by the Army.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2016/04/29/in-dramatic-reversal-army-retains-green-beret-who-roughed-up-child-rapist-in-afghanistan-n2155193

Saw that yesterday on FB, now what is DoD going to do with ongoing sexual assaults of boys by Afghan "allies" on US installations?

Moose-Knuckle
04-29-16, 16:36
The problem with Western Society is that we are caught in two jaws of a vise.

Candy ass Christianity What Would Jesus Do is one jaw and
Burn our culture to the ground progressive moral relativity no culture is superior to another is the other.

I concur . . . so called "compassionate conservatives" using their faith as a crutch (weak a$$ sauce) then the other side of the coin are the brainwashed Marxist that want to blitzkrieg Western Civilization and erase it's history.



If only King Alfred had found out the Pope screwed him over and he said screw it, I am not enforcing Christianity let the Vikings have at it.
We would have colonies on the moon and Mars, be more technologically advanced, have no free loaders, Islam would be a foot note,
And about the only difference would be we have "what would Thor do" bumper stickers and hammer emblems instead of fish symbols on our bumpers.

Be still my beating heart!

Poetry . . . pure poetry!

Firefly
04-29-16, 16:42
I'm reminded of when Obama said that Putin sending Soviet MiGs to blow the shit out of Syria was an "act of weakness"

JoshNC
04-29-16, 21:19
Aye.

We focus on so much bullshit and ignore the real shit

Meaning?

Kain
04-29-16, 21:31
The problem with Western Society is that we are caught in two jaws of a vise.

Candy ass Christianity What Would Jesus Do is one jaw and
Burn our culture to the ground progressive moral relativity no culture is superior to another is the other.

If only King Alfred had found out the Pope screwed him over and he said screw it, I am not enforcing Christianity let the Vikings have at it.
We would have colonies on the moon and Mars, be more technologically advanced, have no free loaders, Islam would be a foot note,
And about the only difference would be we have "what would Thor do" bumper stickers and hammer emblems instead of fish symbols on our bumpers.

Hmmmm Space Vikings. I like it. Could be an interesting alternative reality thing. I mean if the other stuff sells...... I mean it like space marines, but more adventure and exploring, and seeking glorious death.

Anyone interested in working on a side project together?

Firefly
04-29-16, 22:21
Meaning?

Not trying to be a smart alec, but exactly what I said.

We worry about stupid things, as a society, that well adjusted, right thinking people wouldn't have entertained years back.

Nobody cared about "fairness, equality, diversity, or cause d'jour".

If you weren't a free, land owning white male with a solid record, then you really weren't shit. Nobody cared what you thought. Those that were literally fought tooth and nail to keep what was theirs.

Now, you can be joe shit off the street with several felony beefs and your vote magically still counts. Because feelings and emotions.

There's no incentive for right or wrong. We pick our world leader like we pick American Idol. Whomever sings and dances the best.

That's how we ended up with a POS president that's never held an actual job and put him up against a KGB Colonel who has probably personally bare hand killed a few bodies in East Germany.

The same POS president who messed up NASA. We use space based technology everyday. We should have energy weapons by now. At one point in time, the 2001 movie wasn't such a crazy concept. Even amongst Engineering scholars.

Which is another thing, we don't teach anymore. There are kids who are functionally illiterate who only know "hoops, beats, and bitches, yo". No effort. We could wipe the world off the map 10 times over but our average 18 year old doesn't know basic math.

But we do indoctrinate. We indoctrinate like hell. We teach about stupid shit that kids don't really need to worry about. We teach the "evil greedy white guys" myth and how everyone is a ready made victim.

Seriously it's like that book Harrison Bergeron by Vonnegut. It's by design we, as a society, try to keep people stupid, pussed up, and within the almighty Narrative.

Whereas their was a time in the world if you hadn't mastered fire, steel, and war then you simply died out and were forgotten.

"We was Kings", of what? A shit hill?
Maybe. Then guys with guns and balls took your shit over, screwed your women, and created a heartier nation.

That's life.

On topic, short of a My Lai or Malmedy, this situation should never have been an issue. Enemies combatants have no rights. Trust is conditional. And putting the boot up someones ass for molesting a child IS good for these people to see. If your "culture" makes allowance for pederasty then it is bullshit and is to be stomped out.

Kind of a rant, didn't mean to do as such, but that's what I mean or wanted mean anyway.

ramairthree
04-29-16, 22:42
Not joking about the King Alfred thing.

I do not have a Ph.D. In history.
It was not even my undergrad major.
But it was an interesting time I have read about.

The rest of England was getting taken to school by the Vikings.

All his older brothers died in battle.

He became King.

He had to o beyond the norm in taxing and drafting his subjects to keep the defense up.

He hit the church up for funds repeatedly.

They did not like this.

He also believed a key issue to unite England and defend it was everyone learning to read and get an education.

The church did not like this either.

He caught on he could deal with the Vikings.
Hey, you " convert" to Christianity, go raid elsewhere,
And you will never have an issue with me again.
The church also did not like this.

The pope supposedly sent him a dictate stating all he should be doing was pushing out Vikings, make everyone Christian, and he'll no he was getting no more money from the church. Cease and desist with the other stuff. He never got it.

Supposedly he was so fed up with them,
That would have been the last straw,
He was on the verge just saying to hell with it, Vikings or whoever can settle like anyone else and people do not have to convert to the church they can do whatever.

Would less time have been wasted messing with Scotland and Ireland and those efforts gone to more constructive, united pursuits?

Would more constructive ties with France/Normany been possible.

How much sooner would the new world have been settled?

What outcome would a more united Europe, whose crusades were flat out looting and killing and piracy vs. papal adventures have done?

Trials, democracy, marriage, etc. we're all there in basic form.

Would there have been less antagonistic German and Russian issues in the past century?

I don't think Spain or Portugal would have even been the footnote in history they ended up being.

I think there would be a pole to pole western republic with less countries.

This would be a first world plus nation on the way to even bigger and better things instead of the first world racing to be third.

I could be 100% wrong.

But the Christian west has wussed out and becoming socialist, self destructive societies.
The previous Viking lands were put in the corner to color and are in the same boat.

But it makes me wonder,
What would a less tamed,
More unified UK, France, Scandanavia, etc. have accomplished?

glocktogo
04-30-16, 11:10
An odd comment for what the soldiers are said to have thwarted....

Not if you think about it. U.S. soldiers are punished when they violate U.S. law on foreign soil. Yet we have U.S. command building bases in Afghanistan, inviting Afghan troops onto said bases and knowingly allowing rape to happen there. In the U.S., knowingly operating a facility used for the rape of minors is a felony is it not? Yet those in command are persecuting the very soldiers who upheld the laws and constitution of the United States.

That sounds to me like a group of people who need to be bent over and have something shoved up their asses and see if they still think the mission "as they see it" is worth tolerating rape? Somehow I think the mission parameters would miraculously change, and PDQ no less. :(