Talk me out of(or into) an AI AT [Archive]

Ptrlcop

09-22-15, 08:41

I am in the market for a .308 bolt gun for LE sniper work. I have access to LTRs but I really don't care for them. I shot an AI recently and put down one of the best groups I've ever shot. I don't really want to spend 4k on a rifle and they are heavy bastards, but knowing myself I will if I don't find a good alternative and my wife actually was cool with it when we were talking about it. Whatever I get will have a 4-16 ATACR so that part is settled.

I really like the ergonomics of the AI as well as Mcree and KRG stocks I have been behind compared to more traditional stocks like McMillian or Manners.

Here is a basic list of features I am looking for:
1/2 min accuracy
Detachable box magazine
Forward nods rail or one that can be easily added
6 o'clock rail for atlas bipod
Vertical pistol grip
Adjustable length of pull and cheek piece
Folding stock or overall length under 42 inches.
Switchable barrels,(want more than need but I really want a 6.5 also and it would decrease down time when I shoot out a barrel)
Short bolt throw
The closer to 10lbs the better(bare rifle).

What other options should I be looking at?

I'm not ready to hop into a Ruger until the system matures. This will get duty use and I don't want to have to mess with it to get it running right.

I'm not opposed to dropping a 700 in a chassis but I've seen a few that had trouble feeding reliably from their mags.

I've heard plenty of good things about the FN SPR.

taliv

09-22-15, 14:35

pretty solid choice. definitely high quality. if you like the chassis, there's not much to complain about.

plenty of cheaper guns will shoot as small or smaller. it's pretty heavy. after you swap barrels, make sure you confirm zero before using it for duty.

if budget is an issue, as it usually is with LEO duty guns, a $1500 gun (even if it doesn't meet all the criteria above) and $2500 in ammo is a WAY better idea than $4000 gun and the couple hundred rounds the dept allocates you

wilson1911

09-22-15, 14:44

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?173997-Custom-GAP-308-Surgeon-591-Bartlein-5R-Badger-Manners

FYI a 6.5 is going to burn the barrel out a whole lot faster than .308

bjw182005

09-22-15, 15:22

If you dont mind the Winchester/FN pre-64 style action I would take a hard look at the FN SPR in .308. You can find a solid rifle, bed it and upgrade what you would like to for a lot less money than you can find an AI rifle.

Im not saying the AI is a poor choice... Hell, I would love to have one, but you can likely get a rifle that is every bit as capable for your average LE call out for a lot less money and put the rest toward support equipment, ammo, professional training, etc.

For what its worth, I took my personally owned SPR A1, bedded/threaded by SAC to a PRW basic sniper course and it was more reliable and more accurate than every other rifle, including an R700, Savage 10, and two high dollar custom rifles. Might be worth a look.

Macht

09-22-15, 15:34

Maybe look at the DTA SRS A1. If you're okay with the bullpup ergonomics they are incredible rifles. Barrel changes are dead simple. The biggest downside is that, depending on the package, it'll cost more than the AI.

wilson1911

09-22-15, 15:34

I just thought of this. The gun shop here builds customs for $2500, pick your caliber.. They do not have a quick change barrel, but you might be able to do that using a different action. Most are stiller actions. The owner shoots a 6x47L most of the time. He can shoot a 4 inch group @ 1k with it all day long. I own two of these rifles. A 338LM and a 6.5 CM. They are tack drivers. Stiller tac 30 action, kreiger and bartlien barrels on XLR chassis, Beasts of top of both. Everyone up here shoots his guns. They all like high power rifles. I would put them = to Georges(GAP)rifles.

He also sells lots of NF scopes at a good price. PM me and I will give you my ph number if you would like to discuss it further.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/jeep4tw/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/3868d46b-8a9e-4cc9-bec5-b6b81dba2559.jpg

brutus895

09-22-15, 16:34

AIAT is a great rifle. As are all of the other suggestions. I have a AIAT that I shoot regularly along with a DTA and a couple savages with aftermarket stocks and barrels. They all are fun to shoot and perform well.

Get what you want and make sure you got plenty extra left for all the other accessories needed to complete the system. You can burn through some cash pretty easy in this game.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

taliv

09-22-15, 17:12

The owner shoots a 6x47L most of the time. He can shoot a 4 inch group @ 1k with it all day long.

you know that last year, the NBRSA 10 shot heavy gun record was 4.322" at 1000 yd?

you know that a berger 105 hybrid at 3050 fps has 6.99" of drift per mph of wind at 1000? in other words, you're saying assuming a perfect rifle and ammo with zero dispersion and perfect aiming and execution, he would have to be able to call the wind to less than 2/3rd mph.

wilson1911

09-22-15, 20:02

He has his own personal range with steel out to 1400y. I shoot there also sometimes. He has a pic on his phone of the steel, its not a bullseye. He does shoot matches sometimes and knows what he is doing. He outclasses me by far. I'm not trying to get into a contest here, just saying he builds a good gun at a good price.

Icedaddy56

09-22-15, 21:03

If you want one, get it. My son has one with a Nightforce scope. It is a tack driver with Gold Medal match. Heavy bastard though. Better to lust after one of these than a mistress and divorce.LOL

Dist. Expert 26

09-22-15, 21:45

There are a ton of options out there as far as custom guns that still come in under your budget. Longrifles Inc will build you a Mausingfield barreled action out the door for under 3k, and if you choose a barrel they have in stock you'll probably have it in less than a week. The Mausingfield fits into any Remington 700 SA stock or chassis so you have dozens of quality options to choose from (KRG, McCrees, XLR, etc). That's just what I would do with your budget.

BigJoe

09-22-15, 23:32

there are a million options and a million opinions on what gun to buy, IMO there are very few rifles in the class of a AI for a service type weapon. I own a couple AI's and a DTA (great gun as well), i also own 5 GA precision rifles, have owned/ shot tac ops, surgeon, KMW, long rifles, spartan, stiller, crecent custom, STR, etc etc etc... they are all great but for a factory gun you can buy factory parts for and barrels off the shelf to replace with with factory support on a standard bolt action rifle? AI is pretty damn hard to beat, if the stock fits you then its a great choice.

the reason i didn't put DTA in here is it is a great gun with all the factory support as well, some people just cannot come to terms with the bull pup design, if its fits you and you can shoot it comfortably it is also a great option.

there are very few other "switch barrel" options out there as easy or as tried and true as the above. All guns are "switch barrel" with a barrel vise , but if you want a off the shelf gun AI, DTA both great options if you want a custom gun then the world is the your oyster, any of the top makers will build you a 308 that will stack rounds.

Mjolnir

09-24-15, 16:02

FN SPR A5M XP

Threaded 20" fluted barrel.

McMillan A5 stock

Have it properly bedded.

Should do all you need it to do.

-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

FromMyColdDeadHand

09-25-15, 15:30

Out of curiosity, do LEOs face the same possible perception issues with highly customized guns and having to shoot someone that people say that non-LEOs face. On the other angle, the OP seems pretty well tuned in and making competent equipment choices. If my families life is on the line, do I want the SWAT sniper showing up with an AI or some custom gun. While the suggestions here for smiths are all quite competent, what about a life-or-death gun that isn't from a reputable or qualified smith?

Are those issues, or does being a SWAT sniper take away those issues. You are assumed to be competent in skill and equipment? You use a AI with an S&B scope, I don't think anyone can question your choices.

taliv

09-25-15, 20:26

Been pondering the above post off and on for a few hours. Two separate issues.

1. My guess is gear is not an indicator of proficiency. I would not expect a Leo sniper who shows up with an AI and s&b to be any better or worse than one who brings a 700pss and vx3.

2. If I were the hostage there are maybe 3 counties in the country where I'd rather a swat guy take the shot. In the rest I reckon I'd take my chances with the bad guy and the only equipment that might change my mind is the swat team pulls a full size concrete benchrest and chair out of their mrap. At least then id have a chance if I hold real still.

waveslayer

09-25-15, 23:13

love my DTA. tough to beat it. fun design and great trigger

BigJoe

09-26-15, 01:12

taliv that post just made my night, LMAO

wilson1911

09-26-15, 05:48

What is the average range a SWAT sniper takes a shot at ?
This is real life, not some movie where the sniper guy always hits just above and center of forehead. Or a movie where he looks to be 500 yards out, looks up at the sky and then takes the shot. Where was his Kestral and Terrapin range finders ? We never see that in video footage of the guy(SWAT sniper) on the roof with any real gear. No spotter either, just him and a gun with his Butlers flipped up.

After reading his post again, I did look at the gun on AI's site, it does look pretty sweet, but I do not think I could handle the 2.5lb trigger. This would actually be the big deciding factor on the purchase. There is a margin of safety there that a jewel will never have. My triggers are about .5 on all my bolt guns. I keep the booger hook off the trigger unless I want to kill something or make a new hole on the paper.

I let a new guy I met fire my 338LM tonight, which I always make them dry fire first, then let them put a mag in when they are ready. The kid tonight did just like everyone else does, they yank on it then say whoa bro !!!! that's light. Then I say, just caress it like you would a woman's nipple. He dry fired it for 5 minutes before he shot it tho. Which is longer than most do. He shot 500 yards tonight for the first time ever and all he could say is dam, that's a thump, which makes me laugh every time. We have a 3 foot plate 1 inch thick that gets beat on weekly.

Where is the OP at ? What did he decide on and why ?

BigJoe

09-26-15, 19:42

see i don't get my triggers beneath 1-1.5lbs most are timney flat at around 2. i like the distinct break of glass feel. i've shot the low weight triggers that take any pressure to set off, i wouldn't put one of those in a service weapon EVER, but that is just me. Under pressure, real world, sweating on a roof, off a car, in armor. yeah i want to have to mean to push the trigger not worry about breathing too hard in it's general direction.

and you had your 338 shooting at 500 yards? thats like driving your 1500hp dragster to get the mail at the end of your 100ft driveway... i don't even bring mine out unless i have 1500 plus to play with, i don't feel like sending $5 rounds at stuff i can hit with my 223 trainer.

Ptrlcop

09-26-15, 20:47

By policy we must have triggers of at least 3.5lbs. One of our guys has a trigger right at 3.5 and it is lighter than I prefer.

Remember this isn't shot from a bench. Lay out in zero degree weather for a few hours and tell me how well that sub lb trigger works for you, not so great when you can't feel your fingers.

As for kestrels and terrapins? Our "average" distance for an OP on a call out is right between 40-60 yards because the distance between the front of a house and the front of the one across the street is almost always 40 in our city. My closest on an actual operation was 17yards. In training I have set up as close as 7(inside a building with a cornered hostage taker using my partner's shoulder for support). I'm comfortable with head shots to 300 in perfect conditions but a true hostage shot is another ball game. Right now I would put my max to about 150 on a true hostage with a preference to be as close as possible. This is not a "hey bob watch this distance" it is where I would feel comfortable sending it past my own kid at 1/3 if a face.

There is a reason my 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yard dope are on my stock along with my dope out to 400.

I'm pretty sold on the AI although I'm going to have it chopped to 16.5 so I can keep it to 20" length with the can. Just need a few more scheckles. I'm probably going to get the ATACR first and put it on my JP LRP and see how that does with a little more mag on it. One of my partners is going the custom route but his smith is the technical advisor for the American Sniper Association.

wilson1911

09-27-15, 01:09

Thanks for the bit of info ptrlcop. I would def get the AI then. Being a swat sniper has a different set of parameters, which is what I was referring to. Hence the AI trigger being more civilian friendly.

As for cold weather, I hunt with it, when its cold, for hours at a time.

Bigjoe, he had never shot a gun that big before, so I brought a few rounds for him to fire. I reload so it does keep the cost down, shooting box ammo is expensive. I have a local range that has steel out to 1400 I shoot it at. It was my first bolt gun on an impulse buy. After a year and a half, the big gun overpowered thing has worn all the new off. I do not shoot it much now days. The advantage I have where I live is that people have steel setup on there land we shoot at. Gotta love farmers.

BigJoe

09-27-15, 22:26

just giving you shit man, i have seen more then a couple guys who have bought 338's and just shoot them at a 100y range just so they can say they have a 338. SO SO SO sad. My 338's are also my AI PSR and DTA so they are just barrel conversions for me, those guns usually sit in either 308 or 300wm for me, the barrels are there for when i want to make long distance calls

wilson1911

09-28-15, 13:33

I went out to the gunshop owners range yesterday morning. First time with the 6.5 creedmoor out there. Walked it out to 1263 and corrected my dope. About a 13mph wind from 5 o'clock. I love kestrals !!

Your going to laugh, but there are quite a few people who shoot big custom guns here.......at a 100 yard target. The other range I go to is private membership, but it only goes to 500 yards. When they shoot out to 500, as long as its on the paper, some say.....well that's a kill if its on the paper.

When I go to the metroplex gun stores, there is always a guy lurking around the big guns. They are going to shoot at 1k. I always ask if they have ever shot a 338 or 1k, I always get a "no". Then I just go on about how cool it would be. After having one, I do not recommend purchasing one unless your shooting xlr. You can always tell who is willing to listen or calculate the cost of ownership.

BigJoe

09-28-15, 18:49

Lol yep, some people want what they want and no amount of reasoning with stop them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Firefly

10-18-15, 02:17

Watching this thread because despite being gun poor; I want an AI anything before I die. Bucket list.

But unless you work for a rich department with money to burn, I would'nt entertain dropping fat stacks for a personal rifle.

The best rifle is what is issued. Barring that....Remington 700 Police with a good scope. Stock trigger. Excellent, well kept log book.

A good shoot is a good shoot, but should any unpleasantness or political backlash ensue; you really want it to appear that you used the common basics and you did what you absolutely had to do.

These are words spoken to me by a legit, now retired instructor.
Match triggers et al make the rifle easier to shoot, no doubt but the more personal touches a rifle has; the more the defense or civil lawyers will bring it up.

So smiley face lens caps, punisher skulls, Totenkopfs, Bible verses, and other silly things are best left on personal, non duty weapons.

1 MOA is really all you need. That and training. FBI stats say 71 yds or so for most if not all police countersniper/sharpshooter engagements.

Some of this was addressed in a prior post. There are, sad to say, police who find themselves being "snipers" and do crazy shenanigans that really you probably don't want to do. Like going overboard thinking you are the next Hathcock when, if all goes well, dude gets talked down.

Police Remington or the FN nobody will question. Good optics, good sling, and, again The Data Book. Plus calculator and a range finder.

Lots of emotions come out when a countersniper is deployed. A while back like '04 dude went crazy shooting up the street and like 20 cars were there and people were pinned down by a guy with like 30 30s and pistols. Nobody wanted to shoot and a brass got on saying don't shoot they are trying to negotiate. And dude is no joke still shooting up his street. Yeah right. Anyways a SWAT officer, fully trained as a countersniper says "f--k this", grabs his dept issue Remington....low crawls to the side of a house 50 yards away and bammo. Heart shot.

Well the captain flips his shit, the major reprimands him for disobeyingan order, the chief just couldn't even. And Professional Standards paints dude as a loose cannon. The state investigation however totally clears him. Fairly quickly. They stated that given the present danger of suspect actively shooting at police that negotiations were impossible and officer ended the threat. The SWAT buggy hadn't even gotten there nor had the team been mustered. He was on normal patrol and happened to be there.

He eventually resigned as his name was mud because shoes were pissed on and egos fractured so.....it's actually a hell of a dubious honor to be a designated hitter.

Not that it should matter but this was before BLM and suspect was a white dude off his meds.

So...something to think about

Ptrlcop

10-18-15, 08:22

Firefly, there is a lot wrong with that post. For starters the FBI does not keep statistics on sniper shootings so any "average" distance attributed to them is Internet fantasy. The only organization tracking such things is the ASA but they depend on self reporting.

As to spending $$$ on personal rifles. That may be your value set but is not mine. I already have in the $7k range into my JP with glass and everything. Some cops buy Harleys, I buy guns and use them.

The 700 is a standard, and I have access to them and am not satisfied with them. I am not worried about the "optics" of using a different gun, particularly an AI. Doubly so because most 700s end up being tweaked by a smith where the AI is GTG from the box. AI is mainstream enough in the community that I'm not worried. Also, any personal guns I use for work will be accompanied by a memo from the City Attorney signing off on it.

I've been around the police sniper world for a while now, I'm not sure what "crazy shenanigans" you hear of but police snipers that I know police themselves more than any other group of LE I've been around.

And all the sky is falling cries of political fall out get old. Yes, it can happen and me and my family are prepared for it(as in have an action plan for what we would do in the aftermath). That said, YA gotta go out and do the right things for the right reasons and deal with the other shit as it comes.

Your post added nothing and does not appear to be based in any actual relevant experience.

Firefly

10-18-15, 12:45

Ptrlcop,

Our training and experiences differ. We disagree.
I do what I was instructed and was told that there is a LOT of liability involved in being a police countersniper .

You may have no issue with putting a big money gun up for evidence. I do.

It was hammered into me that 100 yards and in, usu 73 yards, was the most common encounter distance. Obviously, we were taught to shoot further for skill building and competence on doping the scope.

I did know that officer, he was pretty left out to dry because the OIC of that scene honestly thought he could talk down a guy while he was still shooting. After he was cleared amd quit, he was former military and got a better job elsewhere anyways.

And yes, I have seen people in less active areas play funny games with their guns.
My deal is to keep it very basic, very common, and train and practice with said gear. That way I wouldn't have to worry about the jive.

While not the most high speed set up, a Remington with a 10x scope can still do more than most would ever need. I believe you said yourself, you won't be doing any big hero shots. My only preference would be a 20" barrel for compactness.

I respectfully request that you not jump to any strong conclusions about me because you disagree. It's your life and your money and your outfit you have to work for.

I, however, have seen how it can go TU for solid folks.
Also, while your city atty may be consulted, it is the CLEO that ultimately authorizes personal gear. As they are the ones who draw up policy. If you break policy, and you know this like I do, they can and will attack that in civil court.

If you do right, you won't go to jail but you still can be held civilly liable if you technically didn't follow policy.

If you are within policy and have the money to drop on greasing a hood with an AI, go nuts.

I just do what I am told and learn to make what is issued work for me. What little money I have goes to my coffers not the city's.
The only gear I'm willing to buy and have was my own pistol.

YMMV

Ptrlcop

10-18-15, 16:27

I'm not trying to have a pissing match. I love having discussions about this stuff.

There were a number of red flags in your post that make me question your knowledge in this area. Quoting an FBI stat that doesn't exist was the most obvious. I know the stat doesn't exist because I have attended FBI sniper schools and had their instructors say so. I also know that the American Sniper Association is the only body collecting such data because we have every volume of their annual Sniper Utilization Report and can tell you the "average" is less than the 70something often quoted. I can also tell you that the most common range for my team is in the 45yard range because I have reviewed every AAR since the team was founded.

Fear of liability regarding personal weapons is unfounded if they are properly supported by policy. In the case of a sniper rifle at my agency it would be approved by the sniper team leader, SWAT commander, Deputy Chief of Operations, and the city attorney. That approval process is also spelled out in our written policy. We also have a written part of our policy that any personal equipment seized as evidence will be returned in a timely manner or replaced at PD cost.

Our SWAT SOPs are compliant with NTOA standards and have been reviewed by both our city attorney, district attorney, and liability insurance company. The section regarding sniper operations was further vetted by submitting it to the ASA and Snipercraft for review.

We have two Deputy Chiefs, one was a founding member of SWAT and the former commander. The other was a sniper on the team. The actual Chief has ordered deadly force over the radio before. I'm secure with my command staff's ability. Nothing in my original post says anything about me violating any policy.

Regarding the expense of the rifle. My current log book shows 47 different dates that I shot in 2014, much of it on my own time or in training events that I sent myself to. I live with this rifle and it is worth it to me to have one that meets my wants. Like I said, some people buy motorcycles, I buy guns.

Lastly, none of that has anything to do with the original question which was regarding the specific qualities of the AI AT rifle for this role.

Firefly

10-18-15, 17:32

The person proctoring the course said FBI stat and really did grind in the 70 yards spiel. He was well vetted by the state. I know that people say FBI whatever to get you to pay attention.

Personal experience is commensurate to yours. 50 yards is about average.
If your outfit is within NTOA then you have standards and backing should it go to civil court.
We also have GTOA here (www.gatactical.com).

I did not accuse you of violating policy. I merely cited an instance where a personally known to me officer got shafted by ranking officers despite the state investigators clearing him completely and even adding that he didn't violate policy due to having compromise of authority. It was just nobody wanted to be the guy to make the call. This was a middle of the day thing and that OIC didn't want to make such a call. Oh well c'est la guerre.

It sounds like you work in a pro-officer department. Some of us....well, we aren't as blessed.

If you drop 7 large on a rifle and that rifle is the deciding factor in resolution of a negative situation. God bless you. No sarcasm. That is you.

I, personally, am at a point where I am way more conservative with what I'm willing to do. Here, a guy shot a subject with a personal AR. It took a minute for him to get it back. It wasn't a quick turnaround.

For me, a baseline Remington works.

As to the AI AT, I have no doubt that it exceeds a lot of accuracy standards. I would love to have one at some point but money is prohibitive.

I know of one NoVA Department has the money for AI gear, so they are used in the LE role. But that area is richie rich and doesn't see much real callouts.

Research the Geer shooting in Fairfax Co. An AI wasn't used but was deployed.

I don't think we totally disagree, but simply have different attitudes/levels of cynicism which, I agree, aren't germane to the topic.

Ptrlcop

10-18-15, 18:08

Thank you for your response it generated some thought on my end.

Hearsay should be as inadmissible in training as in court. That is how dogma gets passed on. Fortunately the LE sniper community is small enough that reaching the source is usually only a few emails away. http://americansniper.org and the FBI in my area are both great for being able to get in touch with other snipers regarding specific incidents of data.

Of coarse there is liability in this job but there is a whole lot you can do to mitigate that liability and still be able to do the job. Having a policy and being able to document compliance is key. As to your example guy, he did the right thing, got boned and moved on. I accept that that could be the outcome. If I have to become a janitor I can live with that.

I 100% agree that a 700p or LTR can do the job. That said, there are better options. I go to multiple schools/competitions per year and hold he personal expectation that I perform I the top 5%. The stock 700 can hold you back in that setting. We have had feeding problems with our DBM rifles and every rifle has at some point sheared the sling stud off with the bipod. I also much prefer the ergos of other rifles which make a huge difference when shooting in weird positions.

I don't golf, bowl, or ride 20k motorcycles and already have a boat. My recreation is spent on the range so the cost is not a pure business decision to me.

Thanks for a quality discussion.

Firefly

10-18-15, 18:53

Ptrlcop,

Actually I wasn't aware of the ASA.
And yes, I do know there is a point where equipment holds you back.
I'm presently disabled and can't wait to get back into training etc.

Yeah there is that bit of "Because I said so" in training, but what can you do?

Once I get some good glass I wouldn't mind taking my SR25 out to some training (I just don't want it as evidence).

I don't know your region but I'm in the SE. If you have a table of courses or more resources, I would like to know about them.

PM if you like. Definitely checking into ASA. Really surprised that is a new one on me but before I got laid up I wasn't so active on the internet.

And this was a good discussion. Started off iffy but I think we're on the same page.

ETA I did some googling....found this article http://m.policemag.com/article/599/sight-picture
And got actually pissed off because one of John Plaster's books was required/suggested reading and he likewise mentions 70 yards.

Who in the hell actually started the 70 yard spiel and attributed it to the FBI?! I have heard it for years. Practically brainwashed, even.

And that is a 10 year old article. And ASA is 16 years old. How am I so behind the times?!

Auto-X Fil

10-26-15, 13:16

No love for Savage here? The 10BA will get it done and leave you cash for a Nightforce.

waveslayer

10-26-15, 13:29

No love for Savage here? The 10BA will get it done and leave you cash for a Nightforce.

How easy is it to change out the barrels on the 10BA?

Auto-X Fil

10-26-15, 13:56

How easy is it to change out the barrels on the 10BA?

As easy as any other Savage - pop the action out of the stock, loosen the barrel nut, un-thread the barrel. Thread in the new barrel, check it with a headspace gauge, torque the nut, put the stock back on. It's probably 30 minutes the first time you do it.

It's not exactly like swapping uppers on an AR, and so you're not going to flip between calibers on the same action just for fun. But, it's extremely easy to upgrade barrels or replace a shot-out barrel at home.

waveslayer

10-26-15, 14:00

that doesn't sound easy at all compared to the AI AT and or the DTA... I can switch barrels taking my time in 60 seconds...

Auto-X Fil

10-26-15, 14:03

waveslayer

10-26-15, 14:18

For sure, it's not a "multi-caliber system", it's just a very easy-to-change barrel for a normal bolt gun. If swapping calibers is important, then the Savage loses out.

Although for me, getting the scope set up how I like it precludes that anyway. I'd rather just have a second gun in another caliber; more specifically built for whatever other purpose I need that caliber for.
yeah it takea some getting used too. I use the Hours 59 reticle and have all the zeros written down for each caliber through my DTA. just use the reticle, it gets me out to 1000 easily on full power. if I need to go beyond that I can dial in a few mils and use the reticle still. then I have my rifle dialed in for .223's all the way up to .338 Norma. makes going to the range fun... one case 5 different barrels. then in save the money on only having to buy a barrel and one scope [emoji12]

mcharb007

02-15-16, 20:54

I just bought an AI AT. Love the gun so you know where my vote goes.

Ptrlcop

05-04-16, 17:59

I gave you guys one job..... You fail, I win!http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160504/f92457d186ce71db4e2e7f256931e11b.jpg

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-04-16, 20:55

I love happy endings

mark5pt56

05-05-16, 05:24

Smart man, and you didn't have to wait and pay gunsmithing fees.

taliv

05-05-16, 19:12

Sweet! How's it shoot? What caliber?

Ptrlcop

05-06-16, 17:45

It's a .308. It shoots pretty good. I'm still learning the two stage trigger. These are 3/4 inch dots.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160506/f87aa8fbbb0e280f3f7f7bc078032493.jpg

hotrodder636

05-06-16, 18:44

Very nice, I have been wanting one of these for a good while.

Ptrlcop

05-11-16, 17:38

This gun is super consistent. The shooter... I'm working on it.

Here is a target I am working on. I've printed on card stock and keep the in a binder. Each one is either a clean cold bore, fouled cold bore or the final shots of a day. You can see that I have a tendency to shank shots left when I spas on the trigger...

Top left is a clean, cold bore a follow up and a shot after I made an adjustment.

Top middle is a called flier and my last shot from that day.

Top right is my cold bore from today, a called flier and a 3rd shot.

Bottom left is a called flier and my last shot of the day.

I cleaned today and will get a CCB tomorrow.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/270cc3673925d6d5d053ea6da21ae7f6.jpg

taliv

05-11-16, 18:57

Where the heck do you shoot that 60 degrees is 194 DA?

The target is a great idea but you don't need pressure and temp and humidity if you've got DA. I would track light conditions.

Also don't just write called on the shot. Mark where on the target you think the bullet should have gone based on your poa and trigger pull.

Especially early on I would also track what surface you're on (grass wood concrete car hood whatever) and what pressure you are applying to the rifle. Are you pulling it back or pushing it forward? Hard hold or letting it free recoil

If you don't have a coach or instructor then take your phone and set it up to video your trigger pull. Then watch it and note follow through if you popped off the trigger or held it back. If possible set it to slo mo at an angle where you can see if you are pushing it side to side or straight back. Then you can compare it to your call and where the bullet actually went.

why1504

05-11-16, 18:59

Looking at your targets you need to work on your Fundamentals of Marksmanship. You might consider going over to the hide and going thru some of the training videos.

Ptrlcop

05-11-16, 19:30

I know what I am doing on those shots. I have a habit of contracting my whole hand as the shot breaks. Now I just have to stop doing that ;-)

why1504

05-11-16, 22:03

I know what I am doing on those shots. I have a habit of contracting my whole hand as the shot breaks. Now I just have to stop doing that ;-)

That's a heck of a flinch. Best way to stop that is to dry fire that AI a couple of thousand times. Seriously.

FromMyColdDeadHand

05-11-16, 22:39

Ammo?

Pappabear

05-13-16, 21:28