Living in SLC or Denver areas

[TomF]

This is still a bit of a pipe dream, but my wife and I are collecting information about a possible move out west. We have friends in both SLC and Denver areas, and those would likely be the options if we move. We have visited each and enjoyed both, but without living there we still have a lot of questions. If you guys who have lived here wouldn't mind providing some info, I would appreciate it.

This are mostly in order of importance, but I'm still brainstorming.

1.) Medical field employment. My wife is a nurse, I'm a paramedic (will get my RN eventually). I'd love an opportunity to work wilderness medicine on a rig or helicopter, participate in SAR, etc. If those aren't available, I will at least need an EMS organization that doesn't totally suck until I finish my RN.

2.) Gun laws, taxes, etc. I know CO has lost some ground on gun laws recently. I own some NFA items and carry a handgun every day.

3.) Weather. I like snow but my wife would prefer to drive in it less than we do now (Michigan). We get thick, heavy snow here and temps from zero to negative 10 every winter. I'd like to travel to the snow, if possible. If not possible, lighter snow and warmer temps would be appreciated.

4.) Recreation land for outdoor activities. I know both have a plethora available.

5.) Big game hunting. I'd love to be able to explore the mountains for deer, elk, moose, pronghorn, etc. Public land that produces would be awesome.

6.) Strong rental housing market. We'd consider buying and keeping a property if we don't stay out west indefinitely. I'd hire a management company to maintain it. Willing to use it as a regular rental home or a short term vacation rental if the area will support it.

7.) Good schools. No kids yet, so it's years away before schools matter, but it's a consideration.

Any info you can provide would be great. Thanks for your time.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Colorado if you can skip Denver metro area. 15 round state mag law stupidity though.

[SomeOtherGuy]

General comments - Denver: Denver and the whole front range area has seen HUGE growth since 2000, including a massive influx of Californians. Traffic is terrible, especially by Michigan standards. Housing prices have shot up, and at the moment it seems to be near a bubble top. Air pollution has always been an issue there and continues to be bad. It's rather like LA of the mountains these days.

General comments - SLC: in one single weekend in SLC I suffered more crime than I had in the prior 30 years of my life, including 3 years living in downtown Chicago and 2 years working in the heart of Detroit. I was shocked and appalled. I don't know how representative my experience was, but I do know the police officer I talked to was every bit as jaded as any Detroit cop. I had this mistaken idea that it was some kind of dull but safe LDS paradise, and it's anything but. So I have nothing good to say about SLC and will focus on Colorado. The urban area of Utah outside of SLC itself seems better, and if you like that area I would look at other cities within it.


1.) Medical field employment. My wife is a nurse, I'm a paramedic (will get my RN eventually). I'd love an opportunity to work wilderness medicine on a rig or helicopter, participate in SAR, etc. If those aren't available, I will at least need an EMS organization that doesn't totally suck until I finish my RN.

2.) Gun laws, taxes, etc. I know CO has lost some ground on gun laws recently. I own some NFA items and carry a handgun every day.

3.) Weather. I like snow but my wife would prefer to drive in it less than we do now (Michigan). We get thick, heavy snow here and temps from zero to negative 10 every winter. I'd like to travel to the snow, if possible. If not possible, lighter snow and warmer temps would be appreciated.

4.) Recreation land for outdoor activities. I know both have a plethora available.

5.) Big game hunting. I'd love to be able to explore the mountains for deer, elk, moose, pronghorn, etc. Public land that produces would be awesome.

6.) Strong rental housing market. We'd consider buying and keeping a property if we don't stay out west indefinitely. I'd hire a management company to maintain it. Willing to use it as a regular rental home or a short term vacation rental if the area will support it.

7.) Good schools. No kids yet, so it's years away before schools matter, but it's a consideration.

1: with your fields, you should be able to find jobs in any decent sized city, and not need to limit yourself to 1M+ metro areas.
2: CO lost a lot of ground in one year and I don't see it coming back. Still not as bad as CA, but not good. Utah is much better now and likely to stay that way.
3: All of the mountain west other than Montana and the high spots in the mountains is going to have milder winters than Michigan. My friends and family in Colorado always remind me of this, between choking in traffic jams. Beware that while temps are generally moderate, there can be brief extreme swings in some areas (like -20 in the mountains), brief strong windstorms, blizzards that melt in a few days, etc. If you want to avoid snow I'd look at Arizona and Texas, and southern Idaho.
4-5: The west in general is great for both, including areas outside of Denver and SLC. Beware of massive hordes heading into the mountains on weekends and congesting some of the spots that look great on a map.
6: Outside my expertise, but with Colorado's strong housing market I would expect it to have a strong rental market.
7: no info

I looked seriously at a lot of places to move in the last 10 years, with some issues not relevant to you keeping me from going where I liked best. I would suggest you take a close look at Boise, Idaho for the features you want. I would also consider northern Idaho, the mountain towns in Montana (Helena, Missoula, Billings), Flagstaff Arizona, Albuquerque NM, and depending on your interests, Dallas, Austin and San Antonio.

[TomF]

Thanks for the info. SLC and Denver are probably the only two options as my wife is very family/friend network focused, and we have those networks in those cities. I don't think she would be up for Boise or some other location where we don't know anybody.

We have more family moving to the Denver area in the future, which gives it the edge in her opinion. If you were looking at Denver suburbs, are there any that stand out as good or bad?

Thanks.

[Vandal]

OP, you should seriously be looking at Boise, ID or the Spokane, WA and Coeur d' Alene, ID areas.

1) Several major regional hospitals, AMR for medics (Boise area is Ada County Paramedics) along with the local fire departments running paramedics.
1a) WSU nursing school is in Spokane
2) Both WA and ID are NFA friendly, my complaint about WA is mandatory background checks
3) Very nice summers and mild but snowy winters. Boise has very little snow.
4&5) lots of open spaces and good hunting, though I haven't been in years.
6) Spokane is a military influenced town, you'll have no issue renting a house.
7) I have no kids so I haven't been following it.

[SomeOtherGuy]

If you were looking at Denver suburbs, are there any that stand out as good or bad?

None stand out as particularly bad. I would avoid the city proper just because I don't like how big cities are run. I would also avoid Greeley, which is way far out and probably not on your list anyway. I find Boulder somewhat tedious - it's awfully weird, I guess. I would compare it to Ann Arbor, but more weird and IMHO less cultured. Close friends of mine lived in Highlands Ranch until recently and loved it. A relative lived in Loveland until recently and liked it, although growth has been huge up there and traffic has gotten ridiculous. He also told me that the area east of I-25 tends to have more severe weather all around, and far more tornados than occur west of I-25. Yes, you can get tornados in Colorado, sometimes really big ones.

BTW, I-25 is a very pretty expressway on the map, but is constantly bumper to bumper traffic.

The overall metro is so large, with so much traffic, that if at all possible I would live close to where your jobs are going to be. Beyond that, if I were moving there and had to be close to Denver itself, I would live somewhere on the radius from Broomfield to Highland Ranch, west of I-25. If I just wanted to be somewhere in the front range, I would focus on Fort Collins.

[TomF]

None stand out as particularly bad. I would avoid the city proper just because I don't like how big cities are run. I would also avoid Greeley, which is way far out and probably not on your list anyway. I find Boulder somewhat tedious - it's awfully weird, I guess. I would compare it to Ann Arbor, but more weird and IMHO less cultured. Close friends of mine lived in Highlands Ranch until recently and loved it. A relative lived in Loveland until recently and liked it, although growth has been huge up there and traffic has gotten ridiculous. He also told me that the area east of I-25 tends to have more severe weather all around, and far more tornados than occur west of I-25. Yes, you can get tornados in Colorado, sometimes really big ones.

BTW, I-25 is a very pretty expressway on the map, but is constantly bumper to bumper traffic.

The overall metro is so large, with so much traffic, that if at all possible I would live close to where your jobs are going to be. Beyond that, if I were moving there and had to be close to Denver itself, I would live somewhere on the radius from Broomfield to Highland Ranch, west of I-25. If I just wanted to be somewhere in the front range, I would focus on Fort Collins.

Great info, thank you. I work in AA now, so I'm used to weird. ;)

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Thanks for the info. SLC and Denver are probably the only two options as my wife is very family/friend network focused, and we have those networks in those cities. I don't think she would be up for Boise or some other location where we don't know anybody.

We have more family moving to the Denver area in the future, which gives it the edge in her opinion. If you were looking at Denver suburbs, are there any that stand out as good or bad?

Thanks.

Aurora sucks. Maybe the southern part is ok, but when I moved here in 05 I was amazed watching the local news that everything bad seems to happen in Aurora. Now it is big, think of Naperville outside of Chicago, but I hate Aurora. I225 seems to always have an accident or traffic, probably because of all the shit heads in Aurora.

I don't like Aurora.

My wife says that Colorado Springs reminds her of Denver in the 80s before all the Cali shit heads came and made us have snow days if there is 2 inches of snow. Denver housing is silly stupid expensive. In the city, probably 3-4x of what Detroit is. I can tell how soon the bubble will burst by how many house scrapes are running in my neighborhood- and we are due.

The petty crime is thru the roof in the city- and it isn't the usual gypsy crews running an area and moving on. It is sustained day time breakins. Of course , leaving doors unlocked seems to be a hobby, but ding-Dong at the front door followed by a rock thru a back window and a quick grab of stuff is the new Olympic sport. I blame pot.

To me, the public schools in Denver are hit or miss, and it gets Byzantine when it comes to high school. Just move to cherry creek schools for high school...

The springs, Grand Junction or Montrose is where I'd be looking. Grand Junction has a public range 5 minutes from the airport with a 1000yrd flat range, with I think targets out to a mile- the old coot was pointing out targets I couldn't see.

That's my perspective from a life long Midwesterner.

[Brimstone]

I live in Utah, but I work in Denver a fair bit. I like Utah for the proximity to the mountains. I can be camping at 9,000 ft with a 20 min drive from my house. Also, you are within a fairly short drive of some of the most amazing National Parks in the country.

Some of your questions about Utah:

1. No idea about job opportunities, but they just built a new hospital across the street from my neighborhood.
2. Utah has no gun laws other than the Federal ones. Pretty much the only restriction is that we don't have constitutional carry so you will need a ccw, but open carry is fine without a permit.
3. The snow in Utah is dry and powdery. The roads don't really ice over and the snow is easy to drive in. The past few winters have been very mild with little snow in the valley. This can change year to year, but it isn't bad.
4. Endless outdoor recreation year round.
5. Tons of big game in Utah. Deer tags are easier to get in Colorado, but Elk is pretty readily available. If you bow hunt, deer tags are easier to get.
6. Not sure about all areas, but there seems to be a high demand for rentals right now. There are a few rental houses around me and they are never empty.
7. The biggest problem with schools in Utah is keeping up with demand. They are constantly building schools and filling teaching positions. The Challenger Schools are a good option as well. We also have language immersion elementary schools that teach in Chinese, German, French and Spanish if that is of interest.

If you do decide to consider Utah, I would recommend Utah County over Salt Lake County. From Salt Lake to Provo is basically one big city now. I live half way between Salt Lake and Provo, just across the county line into Utah County. We don't have the problems with inversion (smog in the Winter) that Salt Lake County has and Utah County is where all of the new growth is now (especially the Lehi area).

[TomF]

Thanks guys.

We just returned from a week exploring Utah and that is really the spark here. We did Bryce, Guardsman's Pass, and a bunch of other mountain driving. We have friends in Sandy. Seemed like an awesome mix of city and mountains. I think I would prefer Utah for a number of reasons, but the growing family network near Denver has the wife interested there more.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The last time this summer I came down from the mountains on I-70 on a Sunday, I was in stop-and-slow traffic from the Breckenridge exit to I-470, about 60 miles....

[7.62NATO]

Colorado if you can skip Denver metro area. 15 round state mag law stupidity though.

How do they enforce that? Are the mags registered? What if your hi-caps are dated pre-ban?

[Jer]

How do they enforce that? Are the mags registered? What if your hi-caps are dated pre-ban?

It's completely unenforceable. This basic fact was mentioned to the politicians that were ignoring their constituents while ramming the laws through but they didn't seem to care. Those of us that live here pretty much act like it doesn't exist but are constantly reminded by most websites when we try to order.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

If you owned it before 7/2014 you are cool. The burden of proving that you didn't have it rests on the prosecution. Funny, I always thought we were innocent till proven gUilty, but whatever. So unless you have a mag that says it was manufactured after that date, it's pretty hard to prove. But you weren't here then, so only 15rnd mags for you. ;)

There is a limit on shotgun mags or something?? 6 rounds in a semi auto. I may be making that up.

[GotAmmo]

Memorial Hospital in Colorado Springs is expanding its hospitals on the North end of town.

And the Springs is destined for extreme growth in the next few years with major moves to clean up the crappy areas and redo the Olympic Training Center.

Incase you didnt like Denver, I rarely goto Denver and its due to traffic and big city shenanigans that I am not interested in

[GotAmmo]

There is a limit on shotgun mags or something?? 6 rounds in a semi auto. I may be making that up.

I'm only aware of the shell limit during hunting season

[THCDDM4]

I'm only aware of the shell limit during hunting season

Here's is the verbiage from the law (CR ):


"(II) A FIXED, TUBULAR SHOTGUN MAGAZINE THAT HOLDS MORE THAN TWENTY-EIGHT INCHES OF SHOTGUN SHELLS, INCLUDING ANY EXTENSION DEVICE THAT IS ATTACHED TO THE MAGAZINE AND HOLDS ADDITIONAL SHOTGUN SHELLS"

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/7E6713B015E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?open&file=1224_enr.pdf

[cbx]

I almost ended up in Sandy about 7 years ago. Turned down the job offer of a lifetime. Hate myself everyday now because of it.

SL,UT is a cool place.