View Full Version : LAW or no LAW .....(Stock Adapter)
So I have been working on a 14.5 build for a little bit and to try and get it as short as possible for transport I have started to look into the LAW folding stock adapter. I have seen and watched videos about this product but haven't really found some good reviews of the product especially the Gen III version which I guess is made of steel now and can handle multiple single shots fired in the folded position without the tab bending. Is there anyone out there that is running this right now and can shed some light on their experience with the product? As many know this is going to be on a patrol rifle and because I have limited space I want it to be compact thus my interest in the LAW adapter so any advise would be much appreciated.
May edit to add in title "stock adapter"
Well unless I missed something in the cycle of operation, you still can only fire one shot until you are able to extend the stock. Does your department issue Fiats? Just curious because thousands of officers daily are able to deploy standard carbines all the time. And since this is a patrol rifle, what happens if the adapter fails to open or otherwise malfunctions? You now have no patrol rifle.
I know that adapter isn't designed to fire when open but if you need to you can get one round off, then have to fold the stock back in order to cycle the bolt. As of right now I am just in the testing phase and would be interested if this is worth the money to pursue. There are plenty of what ifs I could run through, but that is part of the game if you decide to change up your weapon from its intended factory configuration.
If you think it's worth rock out with your LAW stock out. The price isn't worth it to me, and neither are the mechanical downsides.
I know that adapter isn't designed to fire when open but if you need to you can get one round off, then have to fold the stock back in order to cycle the bolt. As of right now I am just in the testing phase and would be interested if this is worth the money to pursue. There are plenty of what ifs I could run through, but that is part of the game if you decide to change up your weapon from its intended factory configuration.
FIAT cruisers.....
BlahahHa! Coffee sprayed from nose. Thanks! :D
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7r7C59jxfFA/T3O2PZ9idBI/AAAAAAAALZ4/H0zBz2BDZUY/s1600/fiat+500.jpg
Outlander Systems
09-24-15, 09:00
Don't laugh, a Local LE agency uses Smart Cars for certain patrol areas.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wabe/files/styles/x_large/public/201408/SilverComet-PauldingSheriffVehicle1.JPG
I have one of the earlier units, very well built and does what it's designed to do.
But consider this: almost always, when a new non-native capability is introduced to a system, while something is added, something else usually gives, as the system was never designed to accept this part and work as originally designed.
In this case, there are some obvious drawbacks, such as inability to functional normally as the original AR (inability to fire with the stock folded but 1 shot), added length of pull, added weight, elimination of a sling mounting point, and non-standard rifle take down. For all these issues, you gain an AR with a folding stock that nets you 4 or 5 inches.
I fell out of love of folding stock soon after I got my ZM System AR in 2000, which can be fired normally with its stock folded. I like being able to pull out and fire the AR as quickly as possible (load a round in the chamber if it's not already loaded, rotate the safety) without spending the time doing anything else. Which I can only assume as a police officer, this may be important to you.
MM had written a review, you should have a look. http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.furniture4.html#lawgen3
I echo the concerns above about reliability of non-standard equipment for a rifle that must be counted on for duty.
That said, have you thought about the Troy PDW stock and similar? At least with those you get more than one shot at min length. I've got one to play with on a .300 but I'd want to run A LOT of ammo through it before I counted on it for HD purposes, much less duty use....
556BlackRifle
09-24-15, 11:06
Just one more thing that can go wrong on a rifle that may be used to save lives (including your own). I'd rather go with a collapsible stock. That said, the LAW is pretty neat and I may get one but it won't be on my primary.
Outlander Systems
09-24-15, 11:11
I view it as an item for a very niche, very specific purpose.
For a go-to carbine...no. For a Patrol/Duty carbine...HELL no.
KalashniKEV
09-24-15, 12:42
The guy in the office next to mine is a LAW Tactical dealer as part of his personal business.
He can provide you with a list of agencies that use them (mostly for motorcycle cops) and you could ping them directly for honest feedback.
I stick with standards parts myself, even though he's offered me one in the past for T&E.
daddyusmaximus
09-24-15, 12:57
I have been considering a LAW folder for my SBR. I notice that a lot of guys say they don't want it because it is non-standard. I have not read of very many (any) people who say they tried one, didn't like it (or it didn't work) and went back to the old stock. From what I can gather they work just fine, and the only thing is "Do you want the folding capability or not?"
titsonritz
09-24-15, 16:55
I'd like to have one to check out but the high cost has kept me from trying it.
I have been considering a LAW folder for my SBR. I notice that a lot of guys say they don't want it because it is non-standard. I have not read of very many (any) people who say they tried one, didn't like it (or it didn't work) and went back to the old stock. From what I can gather they work just fine, and the only thing is "Do you want the folding capability or not?"
I had a GEN III version on an SBR for a few weeks, then I sold it. The GEN III is almost all steel (vs aluminum for previous generations) to address reliability concerns and weighs a significant amount. I did not like how the folded stock just left a gaping hole at the back of the action. I also did not like how the LAW folder interfered with the takedown of the rifle.
I'd think about using a super-short collapsible stock system like the UCIW Ultra Compact Stock from LWRCi: https://www.lwrci.com/p-361-uciw-ultra-compact-stock.aspx. This gets you within a couple of inches of the size a folding stock like the LAW makes an AR - without the significant downsides (IMHO).
http://ungrammared.com/ungram2010/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/abarth.jpg
I think Troy M7A1 PDW Stock Kit would work out better for you.
I have been considering a LAW folder for my SBR. I notice that a lot of guys say they don't want it because it is non-standard. I have not read of very many (any) people who say they tried one, didn't like it (or it didn't work) and went back to the old stock. From what I can gather they work just fine, and the only thing is "Do you want the folding capability or not?"
Honestly, what good is a folding stock on an SBR? The issue, as I see it, is you get one shot and then you have to deploy the stock. That's great if you have time to prep for a firefight, but what good is it in a double quick hurry? Is a one shot AR better than 17 in the pistol because you'll eventually get to the other 25-30 rounds? For plain cool factor, nothing can beat the LAW and a BAD tube stock, but I wouldn't want that to be the gun I bet my life on.
KalashniKEV
09-24-15, 17:43
UCIW... This gets you within a couple of inches of the size a folding stock like the LAW makes an AR - without the significant downsides (IMHO).
It gets you within a "few" inches of the LAW folder... but only saves you a "couple" inches over an N-stock.
Definitely not worth the trip to bizarro world, IMO.
I'm not a cop so I will refrain from commenting on patrol rifles but I am kind of surprised at most of the responses.
The folded stock is not secured and flops around pretty easy. Just because I'm in a car doesn't mean I would fold it. Especially if I needed to shoot quickly. No way I would shoot one shot with it folded. Seems like a very bad idea with the action open like that. Too much could go wrong.
I got a couple for sbr that I want to fit in a very small case and also a backpack. I don't need to deploy either quickly. It works great for that. Sometimes the extra inch or two makes a big difference in where it fits or doesn't.
I don't mind the extra lop. The weight is annoying but not. The end of the world. At least it is in the butt.
The downside is not being able to quickly pop the bcg out.
If I lived in a state without such silly restrictions I'd probably first try the UCIW because the price is very reasonable. If I wanted shorter than that I'd likely try the Troy, although I'm not a big fan of the company. $500 including the BCG isn't cheap but isn't absurd either. Troy says it's 3" shorter than standard, does anyone know how much shorter the LAW Tactical setup is folded vs a standard carbine tube?
If I lived in a state without such silly restrictions I'd probably first try the UCIW because the price is very reasonable. If I wanted shorter than that I'd likely try the Troy, although I'm not a big fan of the company. $500 including the BCG isn't cheap but isn't absurd either. Troy says it's 3" shorter than standard, does anyone know how much shorter the LAW Tactical setup is folded vs a standard carbine tube?
A lot. If I understand what you are asking here are the quick and dirties - I opened the safe and used a yardstick LOL.
Folded, the LAW mechanism and extended bolt tail add about 11/4 inches from the end of the receiver. Measured from the same location a carbine tube is 63/4 bare, 71/2 with a magpul SOE completely collapsed.
Extended the LAW mechanism is 81/4 measured from the same location, so it looks like on mine it adds 11/2 to the length of pull without the stock or, in the pistol's case the Thordsen buffer tube cover.
Hope this helps.
So it sounds like folded, the LAW is 5.5" shorter than a bare tube (different stocks extend different distances when fully collapsed). Troy says it's 3" shorter than standard, that's 2.5" longer than the LAW. Then again, it can be fired that way.
daddyusmaximus
09-25-15, 16:36
One thing the LAW got going for it is that when you fold it into firing position, you have a normal stockweld. The Troy looks real nice, but my face (from looking at photos, never handled one) goes right about where the cheek piece cuts off.
Slvr Surfr
09-27-15, 07:42
If this is intended for a patrol rifle, does your department allow you to carry the rifle hot/loaded? My department and others in the my area do not. Cruiser ready = Empty chamber, weapon on safe and loaded magazine in place. Otherwise, it seems that the LAW would not be as beneficial except for getting in and out of the car.
for those of you measuring the length with the law adapter added, keep in mind that the back of a magpul miad grip still sticks further back than the law adapter. so the actual constraint is the pistol grip and the adapter's length is inconsequential.
I asked my Sergeant and he said its a no go because of restrictions that were passed down this past year. I would still like to get one for a compact rifle I can fit into a backpack, but I can't put it on the patrol rifle. If it wasn't on before the restrictions went into place I could have had it but since I was hired after the fact I can't. I also cant have the NEA or Troy stock either for some reason, but I don;t think I would want one of those anyways because as others have stated I don;t like the lack of a cheek weld. I can however go with the LWRC ultra compact stock, but I have no experience with that product but I would be willing to give it a shot.
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