View Full Version : "Pope Says" (the daily hypocrisy)
Says the guy protected by mercenaries and weapons made in Switzerland. The church directly complicit with the Nazis in WWII and they did bomb the tracks. I'm not religious pe se, but I'm unaware that simply producing weapons defacto makes one a bad Christian. It seems Christianity clear on defensive violence and self protection. Personally, I'd be much more impressed with the Pope if he spent his efforts and time focused on cleaning up his own house before passing judgements on others, but that's me. Your mileage may differ.
Pope says weapons manufacturers can't call themselves Christian
TURIN, Italy (Reuters) - People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday.
Francis issued his toughest condemnation to date of the weapons industry at a rally of thousands of young people at the end of the first day of his trip to the Italian city of Turin.
"If you trust only men you have lost," he told the young people in a long, rambling talk about war, trust and politics after putting aside his prepared address.
"It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn't it?" he said to applause.
He also criticized those who invest in weapons industries, saying "duplicity is the currency of today ... they say one thing and do another."
Francis also built on comments he has made in the past about events during the first and second world wars.
He spoke of the "tragedy of the Shoah," using the Hebrew term for the Holocaust.
"The great powers had the pictures of the railway lines that brought the trains to the concentration camps like Auschwitz to kill Jews, Christians, homosexuals, everybody. Why didn't they bomb (the railway lines)?"
Discussing World War One, he spoke of "the great tragedy of Armenia" but did not use the word "genocide".
Francis sparked a diplomatic row in April calling the massacre of up to 1.5 million Armenians 100 years ago "the first genocide of the 20th century," prompting Turkey to recall its ambassador to the Vatican.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html
brickboy240
09-24-15, 11:39
The ONLY reason the media is making a big deal out of what THIS Pope says is because his views are more in line with leftist big media than many previous Popes.
Some might be too young to remember earlier Popes that stuck very close to Catholic doctrine and blasted gays, divorce, abortion and other things that went against traditional Catholic teachings. Pope John Paul II would have NEVER been welcomed with such attention as Pope Francis has seen. No way..no how.
In fact, in the past when a Pope traveled to America, big media often did subtle hit pieces on the Papacy and commented on how "out of touch" his views were with our modern society. Many newspaper opinion pieces went on and on about how the Papacy might not be very relevant to today's Catholics.
This Pope is getting the play he is getting because he has been spouting on about things the left loves - income redistribution, gay marriage, climate change and so forth.
He is....basically...one of them.
Don't confuse the Catholic Church and religion with Christianity. This Pope is all over the place with regard to interpretation and doctrine.
sniperfrog
09-24-15, 12:08
A lot of Christians don't consider Catholics as true Christians. There's a lot of stuff in The Catholic religion that was made up by the Romans. The fact that they think the Pope is infallible is pretty ridiculous. That goes back to when the Pope was essentially in charge of the Roman Empire. I grew up Catholic and didn't agree with a lot of their interpretations on things.
He also says we should show "compassion" on immigration. With that, inquiring minds want to know how many Syrian immigrants the Vatican is taking in....
Outlander Systems
09-24-15, 12:13
Petrus Romanus.
Averageman
09-24-15, 12:13
Just another cog in the wheel of the Progressives.
What is sauce for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander, I really don't want to hear any thing else he has to say until a guy named Mohamed is sharing his personal apartment.
BTW was his English Teacher Father Guido Sarducci? I keep expecting him to tell us all about "Breakfast in Heaven."
Utterly indifferent to the Marxist blatherings of this particular pope.
Watching Obama virtually piss himself in fawning admiration told me all I need to know.
A few months ago, I started a thread calling for a boycott of the Catholic Church and its affiliated institutions in response to this Pope's anti-American statements. I made my case based on his calls for forced redistribution of wealth, open borders, and his global warming extremism. Well, we can now add his stance on weapons to what is a growing list of affronts to liberty - funny how they all fit into a Marxist agenda, eh?
People who still support the Catholic Church despite this fool of a Pope need to ask themselves a very easy question. What is the net effect on humanity if we actuality implemented his positions. What would happen to the world's poor if we eliminated fossil fuels, turned off air conditioning, and opened the borders in Europe and the US?
I'll tell you what would happen. The loss of life and human suffering would be staggering. There is simply no escaping that fact that the practical result of his proclamations being instituted would be evil on a level not seen since WWII.
So, next time you plan to write a check to charity, visit a hospital, or send your kids to a private school, I suggest that you look beyond the Catholic Church. There are far better institution, both religious and secular, that could use you help.
He also says we should show "compassion" on immigration. With that, inquiring minds want to know how many Syrian immigrants the Vatican is taking in....
That, and since the pope is all for wealth redistribution, When's he going to start handing over the untold billions the Vatican has?
brickboy240
09-24-15, 13:29
We don't listen to Obama when it comes to economic issues, because he has never run a business or held a real job. Why should we listen to the Pop on the same subjects?
Pope Francis, you stick to telling us about Jesus and WE will handle the climate and wealth...m-kay?
There is noting worse that being lectured to on a subject, by someone who has no experience with it and little knowledge about said subject.
That, and since the pope is all for wealth redistribution, When's he going to start handing over the untold billions the Vatican has?
Hence the word "hypocrisy" in the OP. Be it this Pope or past, the "do as we say not as we do" positions and statements make anything said of no value to me. This Pope just seems more "progressive" than past versions making his hypocrisy all the more evident for me. Supposedly, he's done a better job of than prior Popes of addressing abuse of children and cover ups of it and booted some people, etc. If true, credit where it's due, but it's not even a fraction of the internal problems, hypocrisy, and contradictions within that should be the focus.
Moose-Knuckle
09-24-15, 13:44
So in review this pope tells the US via Congress to abolish Capital Punishment yet says nothing about abortion? Blames us rich Americans for global warming yet how many hydro carbons did his luxury airliner expel in a holding pattern of NC while giving Barry and his hag time enough to get to Andrews?
This guy can get bent.
And where in the hell are all the militant leftist atheist screaming separation of church and state of the popes address to the US Congress?!
But I don't believe in the pope so this doesn't apply to me
It saddens me that this far along in our evolution of civilization, we are still listening to a Pope and giving a shit about anything he says.
It saddens me that this far along in our evolution of civilization, we are still listening to a Pope and giving a shit about anything he says.
Good point. Basing important societal concepts on institutionalized superstition is something that one might have thought we'd outgrow once we realized that, for example, the earth revolved around the sun.
Good point. Basing important societal concepts on institutionalized superstition is something that one might have thought we'd outgrow once we realized that, for example, the earth revolved around the sun.
It really needs to become something like the British Monarchy where it is purely symbolic and people don't live their lives according to every word and judge them as they would the opinions of Prince Charles, Elvis or Jerry Falwell.
Collect money if they can, do good work if they will, but can we please stop pretending they are a BFF to the supernatural.
It really needs to become something like the British Monarchy where it is purely symbolic and people don't live their lives according to every word and judge them as they would the opinions of Prince Charles, Elvis or Jerry Falwell.
Collect money if they can, do good work if they will, but can we please stop pretending they are a BFF to the supernatural.
Actually, I see the Pope (and the church) as being very similar to the British monarchy. Neither has any meaningful governing power; both are simply there to tell people how they should think and act. It is purely choice if one wishes to follow those suggestions. Granted, the Pope's coercive effect is far greater than a monarchy with this notion of eternal damnation. I'm just here to point out that the net result of this Pope's proclamations is evil.
Actually, I see the Pope (and the church) as being very similar to the British monarchy. Neither has any meaningful governing power; both are simply there to tell people how they should think and act. It is purely choice if one wishes to follow those suggestions. Granted, the Pope's coercive effect is far greater than a monarchy with this notion of eternal damnation. I'm just here to point out that the net result of this Pope's proclamations is evil.
I understand that the Pope doesn't have the same power as 400 years ago, but he still gets way more press when he says something in comparison to say Prince Charles.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-24-15, 17:33
What I hate is that all the whiny bastards that don't stand up to this Progressive crap.
The Catholic church and weighing in on science matters is to arguments what the NAZIs are to internet discussion- the end of the argument and summary decision. How anyone with a straight face can't shoot this down is beyond me.
Why is it that Progressives look at problems and only see the end product and how someone else should fix it. The refugee crisis in the EU and the de-population of Latin America are great examples. Why is the solution trying to put a finger in the dyke and hadn out free shit when the real problem is that LA is a economic wasteland and radical Islam are bastards. Resettlement and refugees aren't solutions, they are the end effect of failed economic and military policies. Here's an education for LA and here's a rifle for the ME and back you go! With LA, the solution seems to be to emulate the economies that these people are fleeing and do that here. You can't talk about free immigration and income inequality- that is F-ing insane. You can't import poor people and then complain about too many poor people.
And lastly, if America is so bad, why does everyone come here? I'm tired of being the public bathroom of the world that everyone thinks they have a right to use, shit all over the place and then complain about how bad things are- or worse be happy that it is half a shit sandwhich better than where they are from and won't help keep the place up.
JPII was the last pope, and is going to Pope slap the shit out of Francis when he gets called back to the head office.
As a cradle Catholic, Pre-Vatican II, I feel like a Marine on Wake Island, 1942. But they had better leadership on Wake.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-24-15, 17:52
35176
So when Francis speaks at the UN and is expected to endorse both a Palestinian state and Agenda 2030 (https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld), Europe will have an earthquake caused by John Paul II spinning in his grave. As I Catholic, I am sending my kid to Lutheran school. I can't bear the idea of financing this pope and his socialist ways.
Folks, all we need to do is follow the money. While the Vatican itself has piles of assets the intake of the Catholic church have gone down hill as people lean further to the left. This Pope's job isn't to preach his or any faith, but to get people back in churches and handing over their cash every Sunday. Plain and simple. The best way to do that is to endorse the populist view points and make it seem like you give a shit about the unwashed masses' causes. He is a POLITICIAN.
In my world where the sky is pink, religion and faith are not synonymous. Religion is an institution of MAN and therefore has the exact same flaws as EVERY other institution of man.
The Russian Orthodox church was completely controlled and complicit with the KGB during the Cold War years. Why would the corrupt Catholic church be any different?
I lost all faith in organized religion about 10 years ago after the constant drone of how bad I was and how much more of my money they needed. This is quite simply another level of the same message.
He can kiss my gun toting, Christian @$$. His opinion matters no more than the average street person.
BoringGuy45
09-24-15, 20:52
I'm glad that I'm a Protestant.
It saddens me that this far along in our evolution of civilization, we are still listening to a Pope and giving a shit about anything he says.
I am grateful that my ancestors gave up listening to a Pope somewhere around 500 years ago.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-24-15, 21:30
We hurt ourselves by being against the goals of ending poverty, protecting the environment and respecting lives. The best way to reduce poverty and increase overall prosperity is thru free market economics. How you could go directly from Cuba to the US and come to any other conclusion is the definition of insanity.
Free market democracies protect the environment better than collectivist economies. That is writ large in the former Soviet Union and by anything that is 'shared' with no one accountable. Global issues require global solutions. It is easy for greenies to push us to an energy policy that decimates our industrial competiveness because they actually gain from that destruction thru fool hardy science projects.
Lastly, I'm fine with getting rid of the death penalty. If we as a society say that we are not going to kill people like Ted Bundy or other mass murders who are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity, you have to protect the very embodiment innocent.
Share the wealth? Why not have God multiply the fishes and loaves and solve the problem?
It saddens me that this far along in our evolution of civilization, we are still listening to a Pope and giving a shit about anything he says.
Turned on TV this am. All three networks (ABC, CBS, NBC) covered him. Flipped to cable, add CNN, FOX, MSNBC. Went to business channels, FBN, CNBC were all covering him. Have not seen this much coverage of a single event since 9/11.
Moose-Knuckle
09-25-15, 00:04
He is a POLITICIAN.
You hit the X-ring.
Back when he was a bouncer at a ****ing bar and realized that he was going nowhere fast he had to decide whether to put on the black shirt or the red shirt (military or the chruch), he chose the church and has an efficient politician moved up the ranks to the driver seat.
Pope Francis urged Catholic bishops in the United States to open their doors to immigrants, asserting that “these people will enrich America and its Church.”
As a Latin American, the Pope apologized for “pleading my own case,” when speaking about the influx of Hispanic immigrants into the United States. He also thanked the bishops for the work they have done for immigrants in this country. …
“Perhaps you will be challenged by their diversity,” he said. “But know that they also possess resources meant to be shared. So do not be afraid to welcome them.”
The Pope also urged the bishops to offer immigrants “the warmth of the love of Christ.”
That asshole has the temerity to lecture us on immigration while living behind fortress walls, literally. Tear down the walls around Vatican City and then I'll lend an open ear, you hypocritical socialist ****.
I'm glad that I'm a Protestant.
Truth.
brickboy240
09-25-15, 10:45
This Pope is less of a religious leader and more of a politician.
A hypocrite that does things mostly for show, like taking down the golden throne at the Vatican and riding in a Fiat 500.
...all for show
Weren't we warned about "false prophets?"
Guns are bad says the guy with armed security.
Read somewhere that the Vatican Bank was invested in beretta, maybe he should check it out and divest if true.
Guns are bad says the guy with armed security.
Read somewhere that the Vatican Bank was invested in beretta, maybe he should check it out and divest if true.
The Vatican Bank make our Fed look like an honest institution. Recent money laundering: here (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/455195/Pope-s-accountant-charged-with-using-Vatican-bank-to-launder-millions) and a few other scemes here (http://www.businessinsider.com/gods-bankers-financial-scandals-at-the-vatican-2015-2). And then there is Roberto Calvi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calv) from Banco Ambrosiano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banco_Ambrosiano) (that may have also been tied into the mysterious death of John Paul I) and then New York's Franklin National Bank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_National_Bank) that collapsed while laundering money through massive fraud with the Vatican bank for Cosa Nostra with the Fed in for $1B (in 1974 money) to cover the losses. All the while in bed with Propaganda Due (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due), which is like Italy's "masonic" version of the Council on Foreign Relations - except P2 used to murder people with some frequency.
Moose-Knuckle
09-27-15, 00:06
The Vatican Bank make our Fed look like an honest institution. Recent money laundering: here (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/455195/Pope-s-accountant-charged-with-using-Vatican-bank-to-launder-millions) and a few other scemes here (http://www.businessinsider.com/gods-bankers-financial-scandals-at-the-vatican-2015-2). And then there is Roberto Calvi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calv) from Banco Ambrosiano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banco_Ambrosiano) (that may have also been tied into the mysterious death of John Paul I) and then New York's Franklin National Bank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_National_Bank) that collapsed while laundering money through massive fraud with the Vatican bank for Cosa Nostra with the Fed in for $1B (in 1974 money) to cover the losses. All the while in bed with Propaganda Due (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due), which is like Italy's "masonic" version of the Council on Foreign Relations - except P2 used to murder people with some frequency.
Excellent post, thanks for the links.
Business_Casual
09-27-15, 06:51
A lot of Christians don't consider Catholics as true Christians. - So you saying that Jesus left us without a church for 1200 to 1500 years after his resurrection. Think about the problem that causes.
There's a lot of stuff in The Catholic religion that was made up by the Romans. - The Roman Empire or the people of Rome who run the church? What exactly?
The fact that they think the Pope is infallible is pretty ridiculous. That goes back to when the Pope was essentially in charge of the Roman Empire. - The Pope is only infallible insofar as Church doctrine. Just as the Colonel is not going to take any advice from privates about where/when/how to deploy his troops. It merely mean he is in charge. He knows he is a man and he knows men are flawed and he says that regularly.
I grew up Catholic and didn't agree with a lot of their interpretations on things. - did you pay any attention at Mass?
The fact that Christians disagree on issues with the Pope is as old as the Papacy.
For reasons beyond me, humans need shamans.
They all say their god/gods needs you to do what his representative, the shaman, tells you to do.
So listen up, hypocrisy doesn't apply to the shaman, he's infallible.
You, you mortal cretin, better follow the path the shaman sez or you ain't gettin past the pearly gates.
No harp playing for you.
Fu$k the pope and the catholic cabal. Directly complicit in the deportation to the camps of Jews.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-27-15, 11:37
Fu$k the pope and the catholic cabal. Directly complicit in the deportation to the camps of Jews.
Lucky for the Jews, the Protestants didn't participate in the Holocaust....
On a lighter note, the issues with Protestantism is your 'franchise' system leads to quality issues- it's like all the Ray's pizza's in NYC- and leads to the Westboro Baptist issues.
Breaking news, people disagree with other religions or alternate interpretations of the same religion.
More at 9.
What a kneejerkreactionfest...
My impression is that most people nowadays are pagans for all practical purposes. And not even particularly good ones at that. Personally I've got all I can do to try to escape the gravitational pull of being a fallen creature. Outcome uncertain at this time.
A lot of Christians don't consider Catholics as true Christians. There's a lot of stuff in The Catholic religion that was made up by the Romans. The fact that they think the Pope is infallible is pretty ridiculous. That goes back to when the Pope was essentially in charge of the Roman Empire. I grew up Catholic and didn't agree with a lot of their interpretations on things.
Papal infallibility didn't come into place until the medieval period, well after Rome fell.
The Pope was never in charge of the Roman Empire.
"True Christianity"? The Catholics revised, edited, and deleted many works in Christian circulation. In that case, no denomination would have the true teachings, as they are all off shoots of Catholicism.
While I question the existence of Santa Claus, I'm positive the tooth fairy exists along with Jebas, Budda, Joseph Smith (our homegrown wacko and his ilk) and the rest of the gang the world of those who need make believe dream up...
Plus, the natives who worship a stick replica of a Piper Cub after the vets left when WW11 ended. These poor schlubs are part of what's called a "Cargo Cult".
On another note: I had a neighbor who told me he prayed a tune up into his truck. He would also spontaneously spout "praise the lord" while working in his yard. He told doing so proved how "godly" he is. What a nutjob.
The world of make belief/magic knows no bounds.
Now, I'm heading out to buy some divine dispensation.
brickboy240
09-28-15, 10:09
If this Pope had not been vocal on issues like income redistribution or climate change, the press and Obama would have NEVER given the guy this much attention.
These are the ONLY reasons this religious leader is getting the press he is getting...period.
If this Pope had not been vocal on issues like income redistribution or climate change, the press and Obama would have NEVER given the guy this much attention.
These are the ONLY reasons this religious leader is getting the press he is getting...period.
Yes. If the guy wants to stick to being God on Earth only for those that are willing to believe that that is true then more power to him. I'm not part of that particular flock, however, and I am distressed that he feels compelled to get all up into my business. Here on M4C, we call that "getting out of your lane".
brickboy240
09-28-15, 13:46
What used to be the usual message out of Vatican City (no abortions, no gay marriages) was of no interest to big media and the left.
This guy starts spouting off about illegal immigration, income redistribution, climate and other leftist causes and all of a sudden the media forgets all about Catholic stances on abortions and gays and loves the guy...thinking they have "turned" one of them.
...nauseating
Yes. If the guy wants to stick to being God on Earth only for those that are willing to believe that that is true then more power to him. I'm not part of that particular flock, however, and I am distressed that he feels compelled to get all up into my business. Here on M4C, we call that "getting out of your lane".
But the whole point of religion is to tell people what to think and how to act.
Business_Casual
09-28-15, 15:36
You do realize that almost all church growth - whether evangelical or Catholic or even Lutheran is coming from newly arrived people? That could have something to do with the Pope being solicitous over immigrants?
You do realize that almost all church growth - whether evangelical or Catholic or even Lutheran is coming from newly arrived people? That could have something to do with the Pope being solicitous over immigrants?
yep, I seriously doubt he'd be all excited if the majority were from China, India, or Pakistan (which actually is the current majority).
It's about money, nothing else.
We need to start making churches pay property tax.
Says the guy protected by mercenaries and weapons made in Switzerland.
Why rehash this topic yet again when it was already posted and discussed here in GD at the beginning of summer when the Pope's comments were first reported?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170625-Pope-says-those-who-invest-in-or-manufacture-weapons-are-hypocrites
Why not actually spend even a few minutes researching it to see if in fact the reporting by the leftist media is accurate, or just more twisting of the facts so as to promote their agenda?
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-weapons-12-things-to-know-and-share
What did Pope Francis say?
In the relevant section of his remarks, Pope Francis begins by interacting with previous remarks made by a young woman named Sara.
He appears to be quoting or paraphrasing things Sara said, as indicated by quotation marks in the Italian original.
Here is the beginning of the remarks, with the apparent quotations from Sara in red:
And thank-you, Sara, a lover of theater. Thank-you.
“I think of the words of Jesus: to give one’s life.”
We just spoke of this.
“We often feel a sense of distrust in life.”
Yes, because there are situations that make us think:
“But, is it worth the trouble to live life this way? What can I expect to get from this life?”
At this point, Pope Francis begins to reflect on the subject of wars.
What does he say about wars?
Initially, he says:
We think, in this world, about wars. At times I have said that we are living through the third world war, but by pieces. Pieces: in Europe there’s war, in Africa there’s war, in the Middle East there’s war, in other countries there’s war.
But can I put my trust in a life like that? Can I trust world leaders? I, when I go to vote for a candidate, can I trust that he won’t take my country to war? If you trust only in men, you are lost!
At this point, Pope Francis makes his remarks concerning weapons manufacturing.
What does he say about weapons manufacturing?
In this section, Pope Francis interacts with an imaginary interlocutor who has investments in munitions, as indicated by quotation marks in the Italian original. He says:
This makes me think of something: people, leaders, businessmen who say they are Christians, and they manufacture weapons! This brings up some distrust: they say they are Christians!
“No, no, Father, I don’t manufacture, no, no.... I only have my savings, my investments in the weapons factories.”
Ah! And why? “Because the interest rates are a little higher....”
And even being two-faced is hard cash, today: to say one thing and to make of it something else. Hypocrisy....
Having introduced the theme of hypocrisy in connection with war, Pope Francis then looks at three historical incidents in which political powers failed to intervene in the face of aggression taking place in the world.
What are the three incidents?
The first example is that of the Armenian genocide. He says:
But let’s take a look at what happened in the last century: in 1914, 1915, in 1915 exactly. There was that great tragedy of Armenia. So many died. I don’t know the number: more than a million certainly.
But where were the great powers of the day? They were watching from elsewhere. Why? Because they were interested in the war: their war! And those who die, they’re second-class persons, human beings.
The second example is that of the German Holocaust during World War II: Then, in the thirties and forties, the tragedy of the Shoah [Holocaust].
The great powers had the photographs of the railway lines that bore the trains to the concentrations camps, like Auschwitz, to kill Jews, and also Christians, also Gypsies, also homosexuals, to kill them in that place.
But tell me, why didn’t they bomb it? Interest!
The third example is that of Stalinist Russia:And a little later, almost at the same time, there were the prison camps in Russia: Stalin.... How many Christians suffered, were killed!
The great powers divided Europe among themselves like a pie. So many years had to pass before arriving at a kind of “freedom.”
Pope Francis then makes a concluding remark on hypocrisy and weapons manufacturing.
What is his concluding remark?
He says:
There is that hypocrisy of speaking of peace and manufacturing weapons, and then even of selling the weapons to this one who’s at war with that one, and to that one who’s at war with this one!
After this, Pope Francis goes on to discuss matters other than war and weapons manufacturing.
How would you summarize Pope Francis’s remarks thus far?
The general sense of the pope’s remarks seems to be as follows:
In response to a young woman’s question about what we can expect from life, Pope Francis indicates that there are problems in the world and that we cannot simply put our trust in political leaders. They will let us down.
They may take our countries into war, even when they have said they will not. In fact, there are many wars taking place in the world today.
They may also look the other way in conflicts, for reasons of their own self-interest. This is shown by multiple examples from recent history where world powers self-interestedly looked the other way and failed to take action to stop immense oppression and murder.
Politicians may speak of peace, but they are often hypocritical in these ways. The same hypocrisy can manifest among people who—for reasons of financial gain—invest in weapons manufacturing without any concern about how those weapons will be used, as when they invest in arms makers who sell weapons to both sides in a conflict.
Did Pope Francis say that Christians can’t own a gun, such as for personal defense or for hunting?
He said nothing like this. Not even close. His remarks are connected with war and the arms trade.
Did Pope Francis say that the use or manufacture of weapons is always wrong?
No, he didn’t say this, either. In fact, he implied otherwise when he indicated that the Allies should have bombed the train lines to the Nazi concentration camps where the Holocaust was carried out.
Further, the Catechism of the Catholic Church acknowledges the just war doctrine, according to which warfare is legitimate in some circumstances.
As to weapons manufacturing, if weapons have legitimate uses, they have to come from somewhere.
If Pope Francis wanted the Allies to bomb Nazi-controlled train lines, he certainly expected them to get the bombs from somewhere, and in a world where people are willing to commit atrocities like the three he named, he would recognize the need the arms needed to resist such aggression.
Why didn’t Pope Francis say all that?
Presumably, for several reasons:
a) He was speaking impromptu.
b) The legitimate use of force could be inferred from his comments, as above.
c) He would expect his remarks to be understood in light of the established teaching of the Church. As he himself has said, “I am a son of the Church.”
d) Pope Francis has, on prior occasions, been open to use of force to stop “unjust aggression”, though he has cautioned against this becoming an excuse for unnecessary destruction or conquest.
e) He expects his remarks to be taken with what Benedict XVI referred to as “that initial goodwill without which there can be no understanding:” (Jesus of Nazareth, vol. 1, “Foreword”).
There is no credible reading of Pope Francis’s remarks that would make them an absolute prohibition on the use or manufacture of weapons.
What was he criticizing, then, in reference to people investing in munitions?
The hypocritical attitude of pretending to be for peace but by one’s actions displaying an indifference to the illegitimate use of weapons and warfare.
This is what unites both politicians who turn a blind eye to aggression and people who distance themselves from the manufacture of weapons (“No, no, Father, I don’t manufacture”) even though they invest in this for personal profit (“Because the interest rates are a little higher”) without concern for the moral dimension of arms sales, such as when a manufacturer amorally sells to both sides of a conflict (“then even of selling the weapons to this one who’s at war with that one, and to that one who’s at war with this one”).
This in no way means that the design and manufacture of arms cannot be legitimate—as it would be in the case of supplying the Allies bombs to use against Nazi-controlled rail lines or to oppose other forms of unjust aggression.
Did Pope Francis say that people act hypocritically in this way aren’t Christians?
No. Pope Francis knows that a baptized person who professes the Christian faith is a Christian, even if he behaves immorally.
The pope did not say that such people aren’t Christians. He remarked ironically, “They say they are Christians!”
This is a way of indicating a course of conduct that is inconsistent with Christian faith or morals. It doesn’t mean that a person isn’t a Christian, but that he is acting in a way that he shouldn’t act as a Christian.
One could make the same ironic remark about any Christian who is doing things he shouldn’t.
The ONLY reason the media is making a big deal out of what THIS Pope says is because his views are more in line with leftist big media than many previous Popes.
Some might be too young to remember earlier Popes that stuck very close to Catholic doctrine and blasted gays, divorce, abortion and other things that went against traditional Catholic teachings. Pope John Paul II would have NEVER been welcomed with such attention as Pope Francis has seen. No way..no how.
In fact, in the past when a Pope traveled to America, big media often did subtle hit pieces on the Papacy and commented on how "out of touch" his views were with our modern society. Many newspaper opinion pieces went on and on about how the Papacy might not be very relevant to today's Catholics.
This Pope is getting the play he is getting because he has been spouting on about things the left loves - income redistribution, gay marriage, climate change and so forth.
He is....basically...one of them.
That often does certainly seem to be the case. However when one goes honestly searching, he can find some hope that Pope Francis is not quite so like "one of them" as they would have everyone believe.
10 Stories The Media Won’t Tell You About The Pope’s USA Visit http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/25/10-stories-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-the-popes-usa-visit/
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