View Full Version : M4/M4A1 contract awards
From today's DoD contract announcements:
Colt Defense LLC, West Hartford, Connecticut (15QKN-15-D-0102); and FN America LLC, Columbia, South Carolina (W15QKN-15-D-0072), were awarded a $212,000,000 firm-fixed-price multi-year contract for M4 and M4A1 carbines for the Army and others, with an estimated completion date of Sept. 24, 2020. Bids were solicited via the Internet with six received. Funding and work location will be determined with each order. Army Contracting Command, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey, is the contracting activity.
Looks like Colt and FN are still the preferred vendors. Wonder who the other four were?
SilverBullet432
09-25-15, 20:13
Why no BCM?
Why no BCM?
Seriously? How big do you think BCM is?
wilson1911
09-25-15, 20:53
I thought Remington got the contract already ??? What happened ?
I thought Remington got the contract already ??? What happened ?
I believe that they lost that bitch faster than Jerry Miculek can reload his S&W because their QC sucked. I may be wrong, since I didn't follow it closely, but that was what I kind of understood.
Of all manufacturers Colt and FN likely have the best ability to both produce the numbers as well as QC for the rifles. While others might be able to produce better quality, QC, and fit and finish, A la BCM, DD, LMT Noveske, and others, they lack the ability to do so in the numbers uncle Sammy requires as well as the price point that the gov is willing to pay(My guess on the price point.
FYI, Not knocking BCM, DD, or the others. Just being real. I have two BCMs, and am looking at adding another this year as well as maybe a Colt for the sake of adding a Colt AR since all my Colts are neither a 1911 or an AR and I own two colts, lol.
As long as Colt and FN build quality rifles for our boys I don't think anyone will be bitching.
SilverBullet432
09-25-15, 21:43
Seriously? How big do you think BCM is?
Yeah seriously, that would be their opportunity to get big...
Yeah seriously, that would be their opportunity to get big...
I don't believe that's how it works. You already have to be big to land a contract like that. They're too small, relatively speaking, to meet those kind of numbers.
Flankenstein
09-25-15, 22:20
I don't believe that's how it works. You already have to be big to land a contract like that. They're too small, relatively speaking, to meet those kind of numbers.
Lol, yep..def not how that works.
BoringGuy45
09-25-15, 23:36
Yeah seriously, that would be their opportunity to get big...
I think a small company can only get big contracts two ways:
1) They design a revolutionary firearm and then license out the patent to the DoD, who in then shares the TDP with other, larger companies to build the new gun.
2) They get a contract with some small but very rich country allied to the U.S., which will not require the volume of products the U.S. military would. They then would use the money from that to build the company into one big enough to supply the U.S. military.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-25-15, 23:41
I think a small company can only get big contracts two ways:
1) They design a revolutionary firearm and then license out the patent to the DoD, who in then shares the TDP with other, larger companies to build the new gun.
2) They get a contract with some small but very rich country allied to the U.S., which will not require the volume of products the U.S. military would. They then would use the money from that to build the company into one big enough to supply the U.S. military.
I was thinking more of a minority or small business cut out. Isn't that why the USGI mag business would move around?
What is the critical step? Making or sourcing the upper and lower forgings? Who is an assembler and who is a manufacturer of parts like BCGs? I'd have to think that to make money you have to be pretty squared away on their production.
They mention both the M4 and M4A1. I thought the M4A1 was the successor to the M4, i.e. the M4 was being phased out? I figured all new production carbines for the U.S. military were supposed to be the A1's.
KalashniKEV
09-26-15, 08:14
I was thinking more of a minority or small business cut out. Isn't that why the USGI mag business would move around?
In order to set something aside, market research/ sources sought has to show that more than one firm is capable of doing the work (y'know... so there's competition and all...). Obviously BCM is not capable of performing at this scale... and neither are any other small(er) businesses.
Also, for obvious reasons, you don't want multiple sources for your major weapons systems unless there's a very good reason... like you really have to tool up quick WWII style...
Yeah seriously, that would be their opportunity to get big...
Small companies that get large government contracts turn out sh$% products because they have to cut corners to make numbers. A great example is the DEA contract several years ago. Small company that make a good rifle gets it and they have to jump through their ass to make numbers. The QC goes out the window and the product sucks.
wilson1911
09-26-15, 16:02
I am going to fall towards the keeping of company's like BCM and DD for us civilians. I do not have and would not purchase a colt weapon. Not because of quality of their guns, but their lack of innovation. Colt still makes the the same plain gun, while others like BCM have brought to the table innovation and are forward looking in advancement. They make big bucks and could have ushered in a new era to the AR world, but instead they are plagued by bad decisions and politics.
I do not know how BCM manages to listen to the customer and innovate while keeping the price at a very fair point. Others charge more, stating R&D costs have driven the price increases. You can't tell me that they do not have the same costs in line with other company's that charge more. While KAC's weapons may be the epitome of the AR platform, BCM makes me proud to be an American and stand with confidence.
Which DEA contract, Doc? The Rock River one or the LWRC one?
SilverBullet432
09-26-15, 16:44
Small companies that get large government contracts turn out sh$% products because they have to cut corners to make numbers. A great example is the DEA contract several years ago. Small company that make a good rifle gets it and they have to jump through their ass to make numbers. The QC goes out the window and the product sucks.
Or like a certain "red sweater" company who scored a contract and couldn't get half the guns out the door. Lol.
Which DEA contract, Doc? The Rock River one or the LWRC one?
The LWRC one.
Phillygunguy
09-26-15, 19:43
At least Colt's bacon is saved for now
At least Colt's bacon is saved for now
Until the libtard hedge fund managers that own Colt snort up all of Colt's cash again.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
09-28-15, 13:03
I had heard about the LWRC contract guns having issues. If I'm not mistaken, Remington won the contract originally. Colt complained that they thought the contract process wasn't fair and filed a grievance, which ended up costing them both the contract. FN won and was supposed to be producing the M16A4 and M4A1. How did Colt manage to get a piece when it's already been awarded?
Doc Safari
09-28-15, 15:44
So, will this affect the supply of civilian carbines? Will Colt be so busy fulfilling the contract that we wait months for a Colt carbine?
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
09-28-15, 15:48
So, will this affect the supply of civilian carbines? Will Colt be so busy fulfilling the contract that we wait months for a Colt carbine?
Possibly. I just checked my distributors and it appears all available inventory is now being allocated to Colt authorized stocking dealers only. Looks like everyone's going to have a hard time getting Colts. Grant is probably a Colt stocking dealer so your best bet is to ask him if you're looking for anything.
Unless someone is just getting into ARs, with the prices & availability of Colts, there's no reason why anyone who wants one, shouldn't have one already.
Doc Safari
09-28-15, 16:02
Unless someone is just getting into ARs, with the prices & availability of Colts, there's no reason why anyone who wants one, shouldn't have one already.
True that. I added a Colt to my safe several months ago, but ya never know when yer gonna want another... :D
True that. I added a Colt to my safe several months ago, but ya never know when yer gonna want another... :D
That's why I have three in various shapes & sizes. ;)
Flankenstein
09-28-15, 16:15
Unless someone is just getting into ARs, with the prices & availability of Colts, there's no reason why anyone who wants one, shouldn't have one already.
..or 8...
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
09-28-15, 16:19
The only reason I never owned any Colts was because I started with a crap brand due to not knowing about the differences. I went straight to KAC after that and haven't looked back. I see no need to chase Colt at the moment as I have good rifles and I also stock top brands regardless. Perhaps in the future if they're readily available, I'll stock them and keep one for myself.
Moose-Knuckle
09-28-15, 17:21
Colt complained that they thought the contract process wasn't fair and filed a grievance, which ended up costing them both the contract. FN won and was supposed to be producing the M16A4 and M4A1. How did Colt manage to get a piece when it's already been awarded?
Generous campaign contributions?
KalashniKEV
09-28-15, 18:13
Generous campaign contributions?
Remington won by deliberately miscalculating the second source manufacturing fee to get their total evaluated price down.
Colt's GAO protest was upheld because they were 100% correct.
Generous campaign contributions?
The Hedge Fund guys that own Colt are BIG Obama supporters.
Flankenstein
09-29-15, 14:00
The Hedge Fund guys that own Colt are BIG Obama supporters.
Proof?
For anyone interested, this is the GAO decision on the Colt/Remington protest:
http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/650402.pdf
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