View Full Version : Advice for first AR build
Hi everyone, I'm new here.
I have decided to build an ar-15. I'm looking for mainly upper advice.
The rifle's purpose will be for home defense, plinking, and shtf. I've always loved seeing how close I can put holes to each other in paper, so accuracy is important, however it being a good defensive weapon takes priority over that.
For the lower I'm planning on getting an anderson lower, geisselle triger (I'm thinking SSA-E), probably a cheaper lpk w/o fcg, and either a b5 of gunfighter stock and buffer kit. I plan to get an aimpoint down the road so i will probably go with magpul gen 2 sights.
As far as uppers go, there is such a huge selection it's kind of overwhelming being new to the AR world. Right now I'm planning on getting a BCM 14.5". Most likely with a free float rail. Can get that from bcm with the charging handle and bcg for ~750-800 depending on configuration. But I'm really wondering... is there a company that offers a upper of equal quality for a lower price? My budget for the rifle is 1300 , including a few magazines.
The anderson lower, geissele trigger, psa lpk, bcm buffer/stock, a couple pmags, and magpul sights comes out to ~550. That leaves roughly 750 for an upper and BCG.
Advice? Would I be better off skimping elsewhere (not giving up the trigger) for a better upper? I'm open to building an upper but am kinda hesistant because tools would cut into my budget and I do not want to get in over my head or have issues before being familiar with the platform(have 10-200in lb and 10-100ft/lb torque wrench but would need the other tools).
Thanks in advance
A red dot will give you 10x more value than that Geissele trigger so that'd be my first suggestion. If you skip the MBUS as well you can put that $300 towards an Aimpoint Pro (maybe used).
I would also suggest you get a 16" barrel over the 14.5".
I've got no first hand experience with SIONICS but they should be G2G. They have everything you need including parts kits.
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/
The thing is even with a red dot I'd want backup sights. But yeah I will consider that, I suppose I could always add the trigger down the road instead of the aimpoint. Going with an aimpoint and no geiselle I'd probably have to cut into my budget for the upper though. Or I could just skip the free float rail.
Also, why would you go with a 16" over a 14.5"?
Thanks for the link
masenomics
09-25-15, 20:27
Because if you wanted to alter the upper receiver later on with a 16" barrel you won't be stuck with a pinned and welded muzzle device, unless you go NFA with the 14.5" then you don't need it pinned and welded.
I put together a "first AR" for a friend of mine this year and it's pictured at the top. I think everything as pictured came out around $1200.
VLTOR A5 system
ALG ACT
BCM 16" Standard EWL w/ 15" KMR
MBUS Gen 2
http://i.imgur.com/LoYmogy.jpg
I suggested pretty much the same things as my first post like getting a red dot, non FF hand guard, etc. to save money for a red dot instead. He insisted on learning irons first but when we got to the range it was hard for him to see a 5.5" bull at 100 yards. This is where a red dot would've made it a lot more easier and fun to shoot while getting trigger time.
This is from another recent thread that I posted in. Colt is the standard that I compare rifles to and with their rifles now being $800 for the base model, I always ask myself what more I am getting if I decide to build one. In this case it was the ACT trigger, A5 system, FF tube, and free compensator. $1300 is a high budget and it shouldn't be a problem if you take your time and choose your parts carefully.
You can always get backup sights later on if you choose. In terms of cost, think of a set of BUS as ~250 rounds of ammo that you can train with. :)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?174076-New-Member-Conceptual-AR-Many-Questions&p=2183035#post2183035
gunnut12 - welcome. what you are probably going to get with your first post are some suggestions and then a couple posts telling you to use the search button for info that has already been posted. :D
Uppers - unless you have stamp the 14.5 will have to be permanently affixed. Most would probably suggest a 16 inch. Next you have to figure what gas system you want - carbine, mid-length, dissipator (rifle length on 16 inch barrel) or rifle. I'm partial to rifle length myself so my first build was an 18' barrel, then a pistol then a carbine (that was a 16 BCM upper I bought and it is a good shooter).
For the lower, right now there are a couple ways I would go:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lowers/psa-ar-15-complete-b5-sopmod-bravo-lower-fde.html @ 179.00;
an ALG ACT http://algdefense.com/alg-combat-trigger-act.html @ 66.00;
MagPul Pro's rear sight - http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/mbus-pro-rear-sight-prod58164.aspx @ 99.70 (may find a set cheaper than brownells - plus assuming you are buying an upper with a front sight base);
brings you in at 224.99.00 leaving more than enough for:
10 Brownells Mags http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-30rd-223-5-56-usgi-cs-magazine-prod21225.aspx @ 97.99.
you could save 50 bucks with a blem lower:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/14434/category/4282/ @ 129.00;
or you could just do this:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920 @ 850.00 and buy 10 mags and a case of ammo or an AIMPOINT PRO
or this:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM2 @ 725.00 and put on the rail of your choice, stock of your choice and sight of your choice - I'd go magpul Gen 2 and a an AIMPONT PRO myself.
That's just me.
I'd certainly skip the SSA-E & get an ACT or even QMS for an HD rifle. That'll also save you some cash. I'd also pass on the Magpul Gen 2 & get the Magpul Pros, unless you insist on going irons only. Then I'd opt for fixed sights. Personally, you should save for a quality RDS/buis setup.
You can't go wrong with BCM uppers. There are models that are fairly inexpensive & there's even deals that include a free comp (16" models only) & a discounted BCG.
Have you looked into the Colt OEM models? Those are hard to pass up as a first AR, IMO.
There are several BCM uppers for sale here that have only seen light use. Check the EE, you'll probably be able to save a little money even the new BCMs are a good value.
$400 with furniture and ACT http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM-WG
$740 with BCG and CH http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-KeyMod-KMR-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-kmr13.htm
$100 sights
$50 five magazines
$1290 For a first class rifle
TacticalSledgehammer
09-26-15, 08:41
I wish colt offered these OEM models when I was building my do anything rifle. http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM1&reference=http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=COLT
You can add a magpul trigger guard, and bcm stock and come out around $790. I'd look for a Fortis or Centurion rail with a front sight post cut-out and add that for your hand guard. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Centurion-Arms-C4-Rail-System-Carbine-Cutout-p/centurion%200609-cc.htm
Add a solid fixed rear sight like DD, LaRue or LMT (my fav) $70-$130
By the time you're finished you'd be around$1,220. If you added a magpul hand guard instead of the centurion you might have close to enough to buy a red dot. If you add an aimpoint I'd look for a 1/3 lower co-witness mount.
civiliansheepdog
09-26-15, 09:18
$400 with furniture and ACT http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM-WG
$740 with BCG and CH http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-KeyMod-KMR-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-kmr13.htm
$100 sights
$50 five magazines
$1290 For a first class rifle
This.
Berserkr556
09-26-15, 09:53
For home defense the Geissele SSA is the way to go. You could a Colt LPK from G&R Tactical and add on the SSA. Assemble your lower and add a BCM upper. Or buy a Colt 6920 OEM 1 and add what you like. Another option is buy a Colt 6720, they're under 800.
How hard would it be to add a free float rail to that colt OEM rifle? Do you have to completely tear down the upper? I've done tons of searching and understand the basic functions of the platform but am not really sure about how the uppers are assembled
Also as far as that $400 blem bcm lower with ALG trigger... for ~410 plus shipping from 3 stores I could build an anderson lower with spikes lpk, bcm stock kit, and ssa. Is there any advantages of going with the bcm lower other than nicer machining?
I have been looking at aimpoints but I'm still kinda leaning towards going with the rail and trigger and holding off on the aimpoint. If I got the aimpoint now I'd most likely end up replacing the trigger and adding a free float rail anyways down the road... more $$$ in the end. I've got a decent 3-9x scope I could use for paper punching until then. Or I could just buy a 6920 and aimpoint and be done with it the magpul 6920s pop up on slickgun occassionaly for ~800
And yeah, I have 300 set aside for a brick of 223
Why you're stuck on getting an SSA-E for an HD AR is beyond me.
The Colt OEM can use any FF rail as long as it uses a standard barrel nut. You'll also have to remove the delta ring.
Why you're stuck on getting an SSA-E for an HD AR is beyond me.
The Colt OEM can use any FF rail as long as it uses a standard barrel nut. You'll also have to remove the delta ring.
Because I enjoy shooting and I love a nice trigger. If it was gonna be a strictly HD gun that I never shot for fun I wouldn't want to spend the money but this will be my only AR and will be shot a lot. I'm not stuck on the SSA-E but do want a nice match trigger. Is it neccessary? No. Is it worth the money to me? Absolutely.
Buy once cry once.
Because I enjoy shooting and I love a nice trigger. If it was gonna be a strictly HD gun that I never shot for fun I wouldn't want to spend the money but this will be my only AR and will be shot a lot. I'm not stuck on the SSA-E but do want a nice match trigger. Is it neccessary? No. Is it worth the money to me? Absolutely.
Buy once cry once.
For a "SHTF/HD/plinking/irons only AR" a SSA-E is a colossal waste money, especially when an ACT fits the bill perfectly,IMO.
That's why many others, whom you asked for advice btw, is recommending one.
Your cash though...
If money is tight, the armalite 2 stage is almost as good as the ssa-e, for a lot less money.
I agree with the others, if the main role is HD, you don't want a match type trigger. I have an ssa-e in a dmr type rifle that I have, but that's it. It's too light of a trigger for any other use than precision type shooting, in my opinion.
Awesome trigger, but it's really light. If the majority of your shooting will be less than 100 yards, then your wasting your money on it. Buy the cheap alg and be done with it. Save the ssa-e for your dmr build.
If your just dead set on a two stage, get an ssa for a rifle with a reflex sight. (I still think your money is spent in allot better places for now)
Edit to add, if your really wanting to split hairs on paper, put on a Leupold Mark ar 1-4 with a mk2 or aero precision mount. More capability for target shooting and getting holes close, but still having a fairly capable reflex system. You'll be in money wise similar to an aimpoint. Red dots are awesome, but not for tight groups on paper.
556BlackRifle
09-26-15, 12:35
I agree with the others about the SSA-E trigger is overkill. Also, it's very light for an HD weapon. You'd be much better served with an ALG ACT. Put the savings into the rifle or better yet ammo and practice. You'll be way ahead of the game if you do.
yeah I guess yall are right
I suppose i want a rifle to serve 2 purposes without sacrafices which isn't really possible
Maybe I should build what I want which is a precision ar and keep the mossberg for hd
decisions decisions
The LPK from Sionics is a nice LPK and I have no reservations about recommending it. Also the NP3 trigger in that kit is more than acceptable. Besides, you can always upgrade to a Geissele later as the budget allows.
BrigandTwoFour
09-26-15, 14:37
Frankly, I'd tell you not to build your first AR. I went down the same road you are embarking on for my first AR, and ended up wasting a lot of money in the process. I'm going to give you the same advice that was given to me (and I ignored).
If this is your first AR, then you don't really have enough experience to know what you should and should not be doing. You also don't know what parts will really benefit you and how. And you most certainly don't have the requisite skill level to take advantage of some really specialized gear.
The honest truth is that a general purpose AR (like this one (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-LWC), this one (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM1), or this one (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/home/8-patrol-rifle-zero.html)) will serve you pretty damn well for just about any use you can think of. Once you start specializing it for a particular purpose (precision, long range, cqb, etc.), then it is will lose some capability in other areas. You could go spend a couple extra hundred more on a stainless match barrel, but such a barrel really only makes a difference in the hands of a shooter who can take advantage of it. If you buy such a barrel and find that you are still shooting bulk xm193/855, Wolf WPA, or other cheap practice ammo, then you have wasted your money and would have been better off with a quality chrome-lined barrel. Quality CL barrels are still very accurate, more accurate than the average shooter. You could spend the money on a high end trigger like the SSA-E, but that trigger is best suited to particular needs and you may find yours are better met by a QMS, ACT, S2S, or SSA.
For your first one, buy a generalized gun from a quality manufacturer, like the ones I linked to above, and shoot the piss out of it as is. After you've shot it enough to know what style of shooting you really prefer, or how you really intend to use the gun, then you can start specializing with new triggers, rails, barrels, and other gizmos. At that point, you will have expended many multiple times in ammunition cost than the price of any do-dad you thought you might have needed or wanted beforehand.
yeah I guess yall are right
I suppose i want a rifle to serve 2 purposes without sacrafices which isn't really possible
Maybe I should build what I want which is a precision ar and keep the mossberg for hd
decisions decisions
If that's the case, install a ssa, buy two optics and switch then when needed. If limited, buy the one you think you need more first.
Ssa is more than capable for both roles. I'm done buying any more enhanced triggers. It'll be ssa for me if I go the two stage route. Ssa-e us straight up boobies for people with good trigger discipline when In clean, stress free environments. Take it all day long. It's just that it requires a really gentle pull. Any pressure beyond the wall of stage one and it breaks.
For me, for a fighting gun, (I've never been in a gun fight by the way, I just know that from some of the bad situations I've experienced, fine motor skill goes sideways.) I just think there are better options. But everyone is different.
yeah I guess yall are right
I suppose i want a rifle to serve 2 purposes without sacrafices which isn't really possible
Maybe I should build what I want which is a precision ar and keep the mossberg for hd
decisions decisions
You need to take a deep breath and decide what you want. You ask for advice based on you wanting a rifle for HD and plinking. Now you want a precision AR. How much precision do you want? Precision to me is 2 1/2 MOA with green tips. You can buy or build rifles that will shoot 3/4 MOA but it ain't gonna be done with $300 a thousand ammunition. You could get closer to what you want if you could find the coin to get one of BCM's uppers with the 410 barrel. I wouldn't call it a precision upper but it should perform better than most once you find the ammo it likes. BTW... If you don't hand load prepare to pay 50 cent and up per round for it. That doesn't mean you can't plink with cheap stuff. "Is there any advantages of going with the bcm lower other than nicer machining" Do you know what a Frankengun is? That is what your home brewed lower will be. You haven't been here long enough to learn but BCM is one the most respected product lines discussed on this forum and at this time very competitively priced. If you don't mind post up this $410 lower parts list and where you are getting it from. I am having a hard time with the math.
You need to take a deep breath and decide what you want. You ask for advice based on you wanting a rifle for HD and plinking. Now you want a precision AR. How much precision do you want? Precision to me is 2 1/2 MOA with green tips. You can buy or build rifles that will shoot 3/4 MOA but it ain't gonna be done with $300 a thousand ammunition. You could get closer to what you want if you could find the coin to get one of BCM's uppers with the 410 barrel. I wouldn't call it a precision upper but it should perform better than most once you find the ammo it likes. BTW... If you don't hand load prepare to pay 50 cent and up per round for it. That doesn't mean you can't plink with cheap stuff. "Is there any advantages of going with the bcm lower other than nicer machining" Do you know what a Frankengun is? That is what your home brewed lower will be. You haven't been here long enough to learn but BCM is one the most respected product lines discussed on this forum and at this time very competitively priced. If you don't mind post up this $410 lower parts list and where you are getting it from. I am having a hard time with the math.
anderson lower (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1ANSL&name=Anderson+Manufacturing+AM15+Multi.+Cal.+Lower+Receiver&groupid=577)- $40
ssa (http://tradingplacepawn.com/shop-online/ar-15-triggers/geissele-super-semi-automatic-ssa-trigger.html)- 210
spikes lpk- (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTLPK100&name=Spike%27s+Tactical+Lower+Receiver+Parts+Kit+w%2f+No+Trigger%2fHammer&groupid=2361) $50
BCM stock kit (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-s-Stock-Mod-0-KIT-Black-p/bcm-gfsk-mod-0-blk.htm)- $114
Total- $414. The spikes kit is $5 dollars cheaper on the spikes site but shipping would eat that up
Basically the intended purpose of this build is a home defense/shtf close quarters gun. It being effective at that takes priority over everything else. That being said, the type of shooting I enjoy most is target shooting. Prone, out to a couple hundred yards. I don't currently have a good gun for that purpose so it would be nice if I could kill two birds with one stone. Precision to me would be MOA with good ammo.
Paying $1+ a round just isn't gonna happen that's why I intend to shoot some commercial brass cased ammo initially and once I have a good amount of brass buy something like a lee turret and start reloading.
I've never head the term frankengun, though I assume it being a gun made from mix and matched parts. I don't see the problem switching the brand up for parts in the lower as long as they are quality and work together. Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression as far as functionability and doing it's intended purpose, a lower receiver is a lower receiver. Yeah having all like branded stuff would be nice but not at the cost of a $150 or an SSA instead of an ALG. That's just me though.
On another note i have noticed everyone speaks highly of BCM. I can't help but wonder if a lot of what you are paying for is the name/reputation though. I've noticed this for other hobbies of mine: company will start small, every one realizes what a good deal they are and the forums get a huge boner for them, prices go up, and by that time there is another small company that hasn't been around long enough to build that big of a reputation offering something similiar for a lower price point. Not sure if that is the case for BCM or not that's just my experience with other things
If that's the case, install a ssa, buy two optics and switch then when needed. If limited, buy the one you think you need more first.
Ssa is more than capable for both roles. I'm done buying any more enhanced triggers. It'll be ssa for me if I go the two stage route. Ssa-e us straight up boobies for people with good trigger discipline when In clean, stress free environments. Take it all day long. It's just that it requires a really gentle pull. Any pressure beyond the wall of stage one and it breaks.
For me, for a fighting gun, (I've never been in a gun fight by the way, I just know that from some of the bad situations I've experienced, fine motor skill goes sideways.) I just think there are better options. But everyone is different.
yeah I was thinking of doing that. I have a decent 3-9x I could use for target shooting and just pull that off when I'm not using it
Frankly, I'd tell you not to build your first AR. I went down the same road you are embarking on for my first AR, and ended up wasting a lot of money in the process. I'm going to give you the same advice that was given to me (and I ignored).
If this is your first AR, then you don't really have enough experience to know what you should and should not be doing. You also don't know what parts will really benefit you and how. And you most certainly don't have the requisite skill level to take advantage of some really specialized gear.
The honest truth is that a general purpose AR (like this one (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-LWC), this one (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM1), or this one (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/home/8-patrol-rifle-zero.html)) will serve you pretty damn well for just about any use you can think of. Once you start specializing it for a particular purpose (precision, long range, cqb, etc.), then it is will lose some capability in other areas. You could go spend a couple extra hundred more on a stainless match barrel, but such a barrel really only makes a difference in the hands of a shooter who can take advantage of it. If you buy such a barrel and find that you are still shooting bulk xm193/855, Wolf WPA, or other cheap practice ammo, then you have wasted your money and would have been better off with a quality chrome-lined barrel. Quality CL barrels are still very accurate, more accurate than the average shooter. You could spend the money on a high end trigger like the SSA-E, but that trigger is best suited to particular needs and you may find yours are better met by a QMS, ACT, S2S, or SSA.
For your first one, buy a generalized gun from a quality manufacturer, like the ones I linked to above, and shoot the piss out of it as is. After you've shot it enough to know what style of shooting you really prefer, or how you really intend to use the gun, then you can start specializing with new triggers, rails, barrels, and other gizmos. At that point, you will have expended many multiple times in ammunition cost than the price of any do-dad you thought you might have needed or wanted beforehand.
yeah part of me wants to buy a 6920 throw an aimpoint on it and be done
but that's no fun :D
Berserkr556
09-26-15, 16:17
Also, it's very light for an HD weapon.
And that's why I always say buy the SSA. It's the perfect Duty/Combat/Home Defense fire control group. I have one in all of my ARs, it's not overkill.
"
"anderson lower- $40
ssa- 210
spikes lpk- $50
BCM stock kit- $114
Total- $414. The spikes kit is $5 dollars cheaper on the spikes site but shipping would eat that up"
Not exactly an apples to oranges comparison. $3 A2 grip and flat trigger guard. Add $32 plus shipping for a GF grip and all weather trigger guard. Add 30-40 for shipping from 3-4 places. I'll bet you are not saving $40 in the end with the frankengun lower. In the end it is your money. Piss it away as you please. To me it is frustrating when people ask for advice when they have already decided what they want. Later
556BlackRifle
09-26-15, 18:05
And that's why I always say buy the SSA. It's the perfect Duty/Combat/Home Defense fire control group. I have one in all of my ARs, it's not overkill.
The other day I was at the range. Fired a couple hundred rounds through my latest build to break it in. (ACT Trigger.) Then I switched to my SSA-E equipped Recce, took me a few shots before I was in the groove and not breaking through both stages prematurely. Good lesson right there.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-26-15, 20:52
The 6920 option I mentioned on page 2 would be fairly easy to do. There's video on centurion and fortis rail installation. When you say SHTF rifle, I modified my 6920 to such a rifle. I've since swapped out the SL stock for a gunfighter. The rail I have I'd a Daniel Defense. They're more complex to install though. http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/Josh216_photos/Mobile%20Uploads/20150416_122748_zpsusdbdc1a.jpg
The 6920 option I mentioned on page 2 would be fairly easy to do. There's video on centurion and fortis rail installation. When you say SHTF rifle, I modified my 6920 to such a rifle. I've since swapped out the SL stock for a gunfighter. The rail I have I'd a Daniel Defense. They're more complex to install though. http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv164/Josh216_photos/Mobile%20Uploads/20150416_122748_zpsusdbdc1a.jpg
Yeah I was looking at the oem and the 6920 magpul edition which is starting to look better and better since it's only 850
What's everyones opinion on the premium PSA uppers (FN barrel I believe)? Could save about 200 bucks over a comparable bcm upper
I'm not sure where people get the idea that you need a high end two stage trigger for HD/plinking/SHTF/target work, especially when it's not a pure precision rifle. I would compare it to a pistol shooter who can't hit a target at 25 yards without a tuned 1911 trigger. A good non gritty mil-spec style trigger like the ALG QMS is up to the task for all your needs. The old one gives me a consistent ~5.5 lb break and the new one that ships with the purple spring installed has a consistent ~5 lb break (grease can lighten it up a little). Consistent being the key word.
Here's a build I just priced out. I think the A5 system is worth the extra $30 over a standard carbine extension with an H buffer. I also like the STR stock over the GUNFIGHTER stock and others because of the flat bottom piece. It gives you a little better control if using a rear sock or fist when shooting prone or on the bench.
To have an accurate AR you need a good barrel (not necessarily stainless), good free float hand guard, and good ammo. Consistency will get you those holes next to each other. I don't see how any of this would take it away from being a good HD/plinking/SHTF rifle other than the optic you're using (which is why I suggested the 1-6x).
You save about $75 if going with a standard barrel instead of the stainless. I believe you will get more accuracy shooting match rounds out of the standard barrel vs shooting ball ammo out of a match barrel.
$639 - BCM Standard 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ MI (KeyMod) SSK-12 Handguard
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-KeyMod-Upper-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-mi-sskg212.htm
Lower Receiver
$40 - Anderson Manufacturing AM15 Multi. Cal. Lower Receiver
$115 - ALG Defense Lower Parts Kit with ACT Trigger
$45 - BCM Intermediate Receiver Extension (A5 Buffer Tube)
$57 - Vltor A5 Spring and Buffer Kit
$76 - Magpul STR Carbine Stock Black Mil. Spec (you can probably find this used to save some money)
Upper Receiver
$715 - BCM SS410 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ MI-SSK 12" Handguard 1/8 Twist
$70 - BCM BCG and BCMGUNFIGHTER Mod 4 Charging Handle
------------------------
$1118 + $25 shipping = $1143
Optic and mount
$270 - Primary Arms 1-6X Scope with Patened ACSS Reticle "Advanced Combined Sighting System"
$50 - Primary Arms Deluxe AR15 Scope Mount
------------------------
$320 + $11 shipping = $331
Links
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1ANSL&name=Anderson+Manufacturing+AM15+Multi.+Cal.+Lower+Receiver&groupid=577
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XALG16004&name=ALG+Defense+Lower+Parts+Kit+with+ACT+Trigger&groupid=2361
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Intermediate-Receiver-Extension-A5-Buffer-Tub-p/bcm-intermediate-re.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Vltor-A5-Spring-and-Buffer-Kit-p/vltor%20sp-a5.htm
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XMAG470BLK&name=Magpul+STR+Carbine+Stock+Black+Mil.+Spec&groupid=2394&fprdct=1
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-MI-p/bcm-urg-ss410-16mid-mi-ssk12.htm
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle_p/paps1-6x.htm
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Deluxe_AR15_Scope_Mount_30mm_p/padlxsm.htm
$400 with furniture and ACT http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM-WG
$740 with BCG and CH http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-KeyMod-KMR-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-kmr13.htm
$100 sights
$50 five magazines
$1290 For a first class rifle
^ bingo. This is a SHTF gun you should be able to count on.
If you want a cheap plinker do this: http://grabagun.com/smith-and-wesson-m-p-15-sport-811036-rifle-5-56-nato-16-inch-30rd-black.html
A note on BCM: their customer service is second to none. And their quality is superb. Rest assured buying their products. My first AR was a Noveske build and my second is a BCM. I'm very satisfied with my Noveske, but I've always said if I could do it again, I would get a BCM. They are half the cost and are incredibly reliable. Grant at G &R tactical should be able to hook you up with a BCM blemish lower complete with all the accessories you want or you can talk to the guys at SIONICS too (I went with SIONICS, and they are highly recommended). But for sure I would recommend a BCM upper with a 16" barrel and a KMR rail. But by ordering the upper and lower complete, you may be at your max budget.
As for the triggers, I ordered an SSA, but from what I've heard, the ACT is a close second and could save you some money for the magpul mbus.
The Vltor A5 kit is awesome, btw. You should get it, but it is a $$ added as well, so if you can just live with Mil-spec, you'll be fine.
As with anything new, you'll learn a lot AFTER you buy it, so keep that in mind when buying expensive upgrades!
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I also recommend getting a BCM from G&R Tactical. I bought a BCM lower with a Geissele G2S trigger (love this trigger) and B5 Bravo stock from G&R that has served me very well.
For HD, the ACT trigger would be awesome.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-15, 11:37
I'm sure someone has said this already, but go a full 16 inches. You don't want to deal with a pinned muzzle device. Besides, you can't even tell the difference between a 14.5'' and 16'' unless you hold them next to each other. You also said that reliability was important to you, and I can assure you that a 16'' mid length is measurably superior to a 14.5'' with either carbine or mid length gas system. Stepping up to mid length is very important for reliable extraction, and that extra 1.5'' of dwell time in the 16'' does make a difference, especially when dealing with lighter ammo.
If accuracy is important to you, then go with a stainless 1:8 twist with a Wylde chamber. You can go with a 1:7 twist, but that will limit you on some of the lighter loads that people like for home defense. With a 1:8, you can get away with pretty much anything from ~50-80 grains. With a 1:7, you will still get decent results from ~60 grain, but you're looking at 70+ grains to get maximum accuracy. Considering that home defense bullets are generally along the lines of repurposed varmint ammo, many of them are on the lighter side.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-27-15, 14:09
^ bingo. This is a SHTF gun you should be able to count on.
If you want a cheap plinker do this: http://grabagun.com/smith-and-wesson-m-p-15-sport-811036-rifle-5-56-nato-16-inch-30rd-black.html
Except for SHTF you'd want a fixed front sight post. Otherwise that would be a good combination.
Except for SHTF you'd want a fixed front sight post.
What?
Can you elaborate on this?
TacticalSledgehammer
09-27-15, 16:12
Dupe.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-27-15, 16:17
What?
Can you elaborate on this?
Barrel mounted front sight is more solid than mounted on a ff rail. If this is to be a SHTF rifle, I'd imagine it's a valuable feature, should your optics ever fail. I'm sure the force needed to knock a rail mounted sight out of alignment is different per rail, but it can be done if dropped or banged hard enough.
Barrel mounted front sight is more solid than mounted on a ff rail. If this is to be a SHTF rifle, I'd imagine it's a valuable feature, should your optics ever fail. I'm sure the force needed to knock a rail mounted sight out of alignment is different per rail, but it can be done if dropped or banged hard enough.
Yet how many people in the last 13 years of war in the Middle East actually needed to fall back to their iron sights when also using an Aimpoint or Trijicon? Last time I asked that, of the numerous combat veterans that replied, none used them and I don't recall if any even knew of someone that had to use irons.
I'd be interested to know how many times a quality BUS (MBUS pro, KAC, Troy) that was properly installed was actually knocked out of alignment. None of my ARs have FSB. MBUS Pros on all of them.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-27-15, 20:21
Yet how many people in the last 13 years of war in the Middle East actually needed to fall back to their iron sights when also using an Aimpoint or Trijicon? Last time I asked that, of the numerous combat veterans that replied, none used them and I don't recall if any even knew of someone that had to use irons.
True, but for a rifle that would fit your typical dooms day senerio, I think someone would be looking for something they'd never have to worry about replacing.
I'd be interested to know how many times a quality BUS (MBUS pro, KAC, Troy) that was properly installed was actually knocked out of alignment. None of my ARs have FSB. MBUS Pros on all of them.
for what its worth: mbuis drop test (http://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html)
polymer magpuls win surprisingly
True, but for a rifle that would fit your typical dooms day senerio, I think someone would be looking for something they'd never have to worry about replacing.
SHTF does not necessarily equal doomsday. The LA Riots where SHTF for those who experienced it. Katrina was SHTF for the gulf coast. Any country in a warzone is probably SHTF for the residents living there.
There are few scenarios that would be a never-ending SHTF, or at least one lasting dozens of years. For any of those, I'd want durable magnified optics on my rifle. A front sight post does not help with that. And while it's very durable (even intentionally trying to remove it is a pain), anything that'd feasibly damage your quality BUIS beyond use will likely render your entire rifle broken and in need of replacement.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-15, 22:17
I don't see any reason why any rifle would need to have a traditional FSB as opposed to good backups. Plus, if you think you're going to be needing the backups due to some apocalyptic scenario with no more batteries, then you're going to want the longest sight radius possible, which means backups on a 15'' rail.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-28-15, 00:03
SHTF does not necessarily equal doomsday. The LA Riots where SHTF for those who experienced it. Katrina was SHTF for the gulf coast. Any country in a warzone is probably SHTF for the residents living there.
There are few scenarios that would be a never-ending SHTF, or at least one lasting dozens of years. For any of those, I'd want durable magnified optics on my rifle. A front sight post does not help with that. And while it's very durable (even intentionally trying to remove it is a pain), anything that'd feasibly damage your quality BUIS beyond use will likely render your entire rifle broken and in need of replacement.
Yeah I use the SHTF term loosely, but usually most people think of the absolute worst case when using the term. I'm by no means disagreeing with you on quality optics. Being electric and man-made, they're all still prone to fail. I'm a huge fan of backup sights. In the case of the OP where it's his only AR meant for anything, I see fixed iron sights being valuable to have with a good optic.
Yeah I use the SHTF term loosely, but usually most people think of the absolute worst case when using the term. I'm by no means disagreeing with you on quality optics. Being electric and man-made, they're all still prone to fail. I'm a huge fan of backup sights. In the case of the OP where it's his only AR meant for anything, I see fixed iron sights being valuable to have with a good optic.
Electric? I mean they have electric components, but they're not required to function.
By optics I mean like a 1-4/1-6/1-8x optic, a 2.5-10x if used with offset irons, or even a 3 or 4x ACOG. In any of those situations, if running BUIS, they'll have to be folded. I don't see a huge deal with having front BUIS being folded as well. Maybe if you jumped out of perfectly good aircraft to assault a building (held by bad guys with access to explosives) every day that'd be a valid point... but even those types of people often use folding front sights.
It's hard to go wrong with a BCM upper. Personally, I like a lightweight barrel and as long a fore end as possible (more to hang onto, rest against barriers, etc.). I have one complete BCM with a Recce barrel and 15" KMR, an 11.5" upper for an SBR, with 10" KMR, and then I have a gun I built with 16" JP barrel and BCM 13" KMR. All have been great.
Oh, if it comes with any plastic picatinny bits, DO NOT use those for a bipod...trust me.
Well I've decided to take some of the advice and keep it simple and hold off on a trigger.
I've prettymuch narrowed it down to 3 options. I may go with a magpul 6920 and save a little money or if I may spend a little more and get either a oem 6920 with 13" KMR-A rail and gunfighter stock or 13" kmr-a upper (with bcm bolt/charging handle/compensator) on a bcm lower. Of the last two which would be the better option? Both are the same price.
HansTheHobbit
10-22-15, 18:17
Well I've decided to take some of the advice and keep it simple and hold off on a trigger.
I've prettymuch narrowed it down to 3 options. I may go with a magpul 6920 and save a little money or if I may spend a little more and get either a oem 6920 with 13" KMR-A rail and gunfighter stock or 13" kmr-a upper (with bcm bolt/charging handle/compensator) on a bcm lower. Of the last two which would be the better option? Both are the same price.
I would much rather support BCM than Colt. BCM is at least as good as Colt, perhaps better. I can also guarantee you that their customer service is going to be better.
jackblack73
10-22-15, 18:46
Well I've decided to take some of the advice and keep it simple and hold off on a trigger.
I've prettymuch narrowed it down to 3 options. I may go with a magpul 6920 and save a little money or if I may spend a little more and get either a oem 6920 with 13" KMR-A rail and gunfighter stock or 13" kmr-a upper (with bcm bolt/charging handle/compensator) on a bcm lower. Of the last two which would be the better option? Both are the same price.
I'd buy a mid-length BCM.
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