View Full Version : Dilemma Colt over Bushmaster...
Got a bushmaster m4a3 16" before joining the forum and now I'm considering getting rid of it for a Colt m4 6920. Money is no issue but would the advantages be worth it? Anything I should look out for?
Got a bushmaster m4a3 16" before joining the forum and now I'm considering getting rid of it for a Colt m4 6920. Money is no issue but would the advantages be worth it? Anything I should look out for?
If money were no issue I would keep the BM and stake the gas key and end plate and add a Colt. This is pretty much what I did (except I opted for LMT) and the BM is my wife's M4 and has proven to be accurate and reliable (just add good ammo and good mags). If I get a third carbine, as is my plan/hope, the BM will become the truck, trunk, beat-a-bout, do anything nasty carbine:D
ballsout,
If money is no object, just follow the chart, do a good inspection and fix the issues. Consider ditching the lower receiver extension for a Milspec tube. I would also get a Colt or other well known spec bolt and bolt carrier and call it a day.
I think you should get the Colt.
TheActivePatriot
07-29-08, 06:09
If you decide to sell the Bushy for a better weapon, consider a Noveske N4 instead of the Colt. Similar price, similar quality to a 6920, but the Noveske barrel is a major improvement over the standard M4 barrel.
I would fix known deficienies in the BM and buy the Colt 6920.
Terry.
Review the Knowledge base threads (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355), specifically the one "Oh No! I bought a BM/RRA/Stag before I knew better!" (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376)
RogerinTPA
07-29-08, 09:19
I would fix known deficienies in the BM and buy the Colt 6920.
Terry.
Totally agree here and what others have said, use it as a back up, for the wife, as a trunk gun. Besides, like lays potatoe chips, just about everyone owns more than one.:D
Patrick Aherne
07-29-08, 11:54
Stake the Bushy carrier, then take the money you would have spent on a Colt's and get some training from a good provider. If it breaks fix it; then get some more training. After a few classes and a couple of broken parts, you will know what you want and need.
Lonestar.45
07-29-08, 12:25
Is your Bushmaster not working or something? Is this a rifle you depend on for your life, or a plinker/range gun?
I would not trade in a perfectly good working rifle just because of what I've read on the internet.
Like others have said, make sure everything is staked, and shoot it. Maybe pick up an LMT BCG as a spare.
If you're really worried, and use it for work or your life depends on it, get an LMT upper and put on your lower.
If money is no object, pick up the Colt as your second AR. Or, if you haven't picked up an ACOG, Aimpoint, or the like and want it, do that instead. Just my 2 cents.
If money's no object, buy what makes you happy! It's America, ain't it great?!
I'd buy ammo equal to the cost of the Colt and see what breaks. When it does, fix it. It'll still be cheaper in the long run, plus you'll polish or sustain your training, and have more trust in your gun and replacement parts.
Or buy both.
That's just me. :D
QuickStrike
07-29-08, 17:22
If money is truely not an object, I'd keep it and buy the colt too.
Not a bad idea to have a beater AR that you can shoot the snot out of without much care/worries IMO.
bullitt5172
07-29-08, 19:10
It's no secret the Colt is the better weapon, but the Bushy will probably serve you well given you make sure it's assembled correctly. Follow the advice here, check it over, keep it if you want and then get the Colt. That being said, I would sell it and buy the Colt in a heartbeat ;)
thatguy950
07-29-08, 20:42
I sold my BM to a buddy and got a 6920 'just cuz.' That said, the gun NEVER had a malfunction when I owned it, and he's never had a problem with it either even though he shoots only Wolf and runs it almost 100% dry. :eek: I guess he's too lazy/doesn't really know how to take it apart, but he's put a few thousand Wolf down the pipe in that condition wtihout even a hiccup, Bush will work great for you.
I have the same rifle. 100%(well it was 98% before I did the "upgrades") with any ammo make and weight....unreal how reliable and accurate it is. I too am of the group that will say get the Colt or LMT and keep the BM (since $ is no object right?). I have 2 AR's; Colt and BM. Please do the simple and cheap instructions given by Rob on how to bring it up to snuff and call it good. It's a good rifle once you do a few things to it.
I really like/noticed a great improvement on mainly 2 things; the H buffer (Grant or Bravo Co. for about $25) and the Crane O-ring and black insert ($4). Do these things along with some staking and you will be fine. By some P-mags and alot of ammo while still available!
One other thing I forgot to say. IF I wer to recommend an AR to a friend or family memeber, I would steer them toward the Charles Daly. I'm thinking about one to build.
Thanks. Well I guess I'll get myself a Colt too. I have a bunch of 55 grain still sitting here. Hope the Colt will like it just as well. There's mixed reviews on 1:7 shooting 55 grain think there might be any problems shooting it?
1 more thing. I here so many pros about the Colt 6920. But what are some cons. I think one might be some parts aren't compatible?
1 more thing. I here so many pros about the Colt 6920. But what are some cons. I think one might be some parts aren't compatible?
Cons;
pricey
M4 stock(got my LMT w/SOPMOD stock)
only parts out of spec are the hammer and trigger pin sizes
RogerinTPA
07-30-08, 11:17
Thanks. Well I guess I'll get myself a Colt too. I have a bunch of 55 grain still sitting here. Hope the Colt will like it just as well. There's mixed reviews on 1:7 shooting 55 grain think there might be any problems shooting it?
55grain out of a 1:7 barrel shoots just fine. In fact, I've shot some of the tightest groups from 55 grain ammo out of my Colt 6920. YMMV.
I sold my BM to a buddy and got a 6920 ...
with friends like you, who'd need enemy? :D
I just put a LMT on lay-away today. Guess I'll sell my Bushy after awhile. I must say that the Bushmaster (it has the comp and not the flash hider) has almost no felt recoil and has been a pleasure to shoot.
Cons;
pricey
M4 stock(got my LMT w/SOPMOD stock)
only parts out of spec are the hammer and trigger pin sizes
so all the out of spec parts should be replaceable correct? i'm not familiar with the Colt 6920 trigger. How does the stock trigger compare to other ar15 stock triggers. What would be a good replacement?
Absolutely sell the BM (there's plenty of guys out there who will buy a Bushy) and pick up the Colt LE 6920. If you want two carbines (as others have suggested you do) and you said money is not an issue, pick up another Colt, and then sign up for a good carbine course (which is where the BM's are known to kick the bucket). A BM might make a fine plinking carbine, but I wouldn't have anything to do with one in any type of Self-Defense or SHTF situation - just my experience and observations, YMMV, but I'm sticking with my Colt until perhaps FN makes and markets a civillian legal M4 in the U.S.
so all the out of spec parts should be replaceable correct? i'm not familiar with the Colt 6920 trigger. How does the stock trigger compare to other ar15 stock triggers. What would be a good replacement?
They are replaceable but with Colt oversized trigger and hammer pins, not with mil. spec sized (smaller) pins. When stocking up on spares you will have to get the Colt trigger, hammer and pins. I wouldn't recommend replacing the stock trigger on a carbine but others may.
Absolutely sell the BM (there's plenty of guys out there who will buy a Bushy) and pick up the Colt LE 6920. If you want two carbines (as others have suggested you do) and you said money is not an issue, pick up another Colt, and then sign up for a good carbine course (which is where the BM's are known to kick the bucket). A BM might make a fine plinking carbine, but I wouldn't have anything to do with one in any type of Self-Defense or SHTF situation - just my experience and observations, YMMV, but I'm sticking with my Colt until perhaps FN makes and markets a civillian legal M4 in the U.S.
You would spend less money upgrading the BM than taking the loss in selling it. It, like any other mechanical device, can be improved. A lot of people are just BM haters. I can understand to a point, I've found several things on mine that was substandard but they are completely serviceable when corrected. Check out the 'knowledge base thread', and Grant has a big post somewhere that shows the short comings and corrections on BM's. I belive it is titled 'A day the the life of a Bushmaster dealer' or something close. This should answer your questions.
If your life depends on it get the colt...for fun as a beater use the BM
Yeah I think i'll have both. Besides the large pins on the Colt is the trigger at least decent?
Yeah I think i'll have both. Besides the large pins on the Colt is the trigger at least decent?
It may vary rifle to rifle but I would guess that it would be fine. I have owned a total of six Colts (these were all in the late 80's thru mid 90's,) and had no complaints on their triggers. I've owned something like 15 different BM's and the one I currently own has the heaviest trigger of all but is still completely serviceable. I also aquired a LMT the first of this year and it's trigger is SWEET, and it is a standard, single stage trigger. If these are to be used/kept for serious use I would recommend against a two stage/match trigger.
Yeah I think i'll have both. Besides the large pins on the Colt is the trigger at least decent?
Go try one if possible before you buy. LMT and Noveske have good triggers. It's generally considered one of the best AR stock triggers, and it's the best stock trigger on a semi-automatic rifle I have ever tried (that leaves quite a few others out there).
Go try one if possible before you buy. LMT and Noveske have good triggers. It's generally considered one of the best AR stock triggers, and it's the best stock trigger on a semi-automatic rifle I have ever tried (that leaves quite a few others out there).
The colt trigger is the best stock trigger? or you mean the LMT&Noveseke
The colt trigger is the best stock trigger? or you mean the LMT&Noveseke
The stock trigger on my current Colt is the best I have personally tried, which is one of many reasons it's the only carbine I use/rely on. However, I tried an LMT trigger that was very good a while back, and it is possible that their current production triggers are as good or even better than Colts. If at all possible I would try to dry fire a few Colts and LMTs if you can, because there may be some vairation in how good my Colt's trigger is (although all the Colt 6920 triggers I've tried are excellent for my needs anyway). The Noveske is a very good trigger, but I just didn't get one that was up to par with the Colt's I have fired or dry fired. Even though I am a big Colt fan, I would test dry fire the LMT and see how you like it. I think it is a fine carbine that I would have no trouble relying on for plinking or serious work.
Despite being labeled a "BM Hater", I stick by what I said. I do not want to buy a carbine with "substandard" parts and then make sure that everything else will work when I need it. It's almost like saying you can "upgrade" a Porsche 914 to perform like a Porsche 959. Yeah, they are both Porsche's (AR carbines) but a 914 will never perform anything like a 959.
With the money in question, you could sell your BM on any number of sites where uninformed buyers will snap it up from you and you probably will not lose too much money. Take that money and put it into an LMT and you'll have two serviceable carbines that you could modify for different purposes. For example, use the Colt 6920 and set it up as your short/medium range carbine, and (if it was me) get an LMT with a heavy 20" barrel and turn it into a nice longer range rifle (esp. with either 75gr or 77gr 5.56mm ammunion (a bullet weight the 1 in 7 twist Bushy cannot shoot) - just a thought or two or three . . . . . :)
DD the "BM Hater"
Despite being labeled a "BM Hater", I stick by what I said. I do not want to buy a carbine with "substandard" parts and then make sure that everything else will work when I need it.
Oh, I completely agree with this, my point is that he (like me) already has a BM. And I certainly will not consider another (ACR could prove the exception but I'll let others prove it out). In addition to our BM and LMT we are now planning a third carbine (LMT MRP, SCAR and ACR, one of these will be next). When we get the third carbine the BM will be regulated to crap detail, meaning truck/trunk duty, camping gun and any use that will subject it to environmental abuse or any general abuse, so it will still have it's use. Me, personally, I no longer get rid of any firearm that has a use and proves up to the challenge of that intended use. But that's just me;)
Oh, I completely agree with this, my point is that he (like me) already has a BM. And I certainly will not consider another (ACR could prove the exception but I'll let others prove it out). In addition to our BM and LMT we are now planning a third carbine (LMT MRP, SCAR and ACR, one of these will be next). When we get the third carbine the BM will be regulated to crap detail, meaning truck/trunk duty, camping gun and any use that will subject it to environmental abuse or any general abuse, so it will still have it's use. Me, personally, I no longer get rid of any firearm that has a use and proves up to the challenge of that intended use. But that's just me;)
Nothing wrong with relegating it to "crap detail" or some other intended use short of being the primary source you rely on to protect yourself and those you care to protect. And I also understand anyone who does not want to sell or otherwise part with any firearm (no matter how bad). Personally, I have never sold a firearm to a private party (not that there's anything illegal with doing so) because of, well . . . . a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with BM's.
I thought I would add this post after what my BM M4 went thru yesterday. We had a small family get-together yesterday at my bother-in-laws house. He lives outside town a ways, and has a 50 yard area where he shoots. He told me to bring the "AR" out. Having 2, I deceided to only bring out the BM with 23 loaded 30 round magazines, or 690 rounds for those of you in Rio Linda. :)
150 of which were loaded with Wolf steel 55 gr. The remainder was reload 55 gr. from a gun show, PMC Tiawan, Remington, American Red box and some other 62 gr. stuff. It was hot. 100 degrees. Its also Tucson -dusty. We shoot in the shade, but its still hot. Me, 2 brother-in-laws, 2 wifes, 1 cousin and a father-in-law all took turns ripping up paper targets, water cooler, 2 computer CPU's, a monitor and about a dozen 5 gallon water jugs. My brother-in-law found 2 more boxes of Wolf he had, so 40 more rounds went thru bringing the total amount shot yesterday to 730 rounds (190 Wolf) :cool:
The result? - absolutly 100%. Not ONE single ANYTHING. Boring reliability. Like shooting Glocks. The sling melted at the front because one of the ladys was shotting it from a table rest and the sling was under the barrel. There is still a glob of sling that has permantly stuck to the underside of the barrel near the lug. At times we rapid fired it and on 2 occasions (2 magazines) I did the rubber band around the mag well full-auto trick to the point where the barrel was smoking! Great time! Cleaning on the other hand late last night? Not so fun. Very dirty. I wish I took a picture to show what this many rounds looks like in this heat a cheap ammo. Black sludge is how I can best describe the bolt. I run Mobile 1 20W 50 full synthetic in all of my firearms, and I made the bolt wet in a quick-once-over prior to going out to the in-laws. That helped I think.
I say this because I attribute this reliability to the few, simple and cheap upgrades (I believe necessary upgrades) to the rifle per Robs recommendations. This bastard can run with any of them, I trust this thing and is fun because it works. So in other words, keep your rifle. Buy another one too. The point is go out see if it works and let it rip. You maybe suprised (if its like mine) how reliable AND accurate this gun is, or can be.
With the money in question, you could sell your BM on any number of sites where uninformed buyers will snap it up from you and you probably will not lose too much money. Take that money and put it into an LMT and you'll have two serviceable carbines that you could modify for different purposes. For example, use the Colt 6920 and set it up as your short/medium range carbine, and (if it was me) get an LMT with a heavy 20" barrel and turn it into a nice longer range rifle (esp. with either 75gr or 77gr 5.56mm ammunion (a bullet weight the 1 in 7 twist Bushy cannot shoot) - just a thought or two or three . . . . . :)
DD the "BM Hater"
I've upgraded the extractor on my Bushmaster with a new spring, insert and "O" ring. Ran a few mags of Wolf through it the other day and it worked fine. BTW....Wolf 75gr ammo was designed to work in 1 in 9 twist barrels. I read that somewhere but can't remember where right now. Pretty sure it was in one of the several gun mags I have.
I've upgraded the extractor on my Bushmaster with a new spring, insert and "O" ring. Ran a few mags of Wolf through it the other day and it worked fine. BTW....Wolf 75gr ammo was designed to work in 1 in 9 twist barrels. I read that somewhere but can't remember where right now. Pretty sure it was in one of the several gun mags I have.
I can't speak to Wolf ammo. I use XM193 for practice and Hornady 5.56mm 75gr for the ready to go mags, and I know that it will not shoot accurately from a 1 in 9 barrel; it's probably in the knowledge base thread about what you need to do when you realize you bought a BM/Stag. See how that Wolf 75gr does at about 300m+ I will be surprised if it shoots anywhere near as accurately as 55gr. Also, I assume it's .223? That should make the problem of 75gr weight + 1/9 twist even worse.
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