View Full Version : Froglube and Fireclean...Pre treating/conditioning
Flankenstein
09-28-15, 17:24
Is this really necessary? I've got some of each from christmas but the instructions look annoying as hell.
Can I just shoot and clean with one of the products or do I need to do the magic voodoo process before hand, then shoot, then repeat?
Everything I've seen said yes, you must do the voodoo.
steyrman13
09-28-15, 18:49
With Froglube I have seen it gum up either way.
With Fireclean I have not. I have two that have had it applied on top of slip 2000 and sat for 2 years with no issues yet so I don't feel it is as necessary.
NSN-NSW-CROCK-TAC-ODG
35222
I have some Frog Lube I picked up to test on one of my school carbines. After I read the instructions, I decided I would stick with what I was using. I am trying to give it away locally.
After the recent marathon thread on Fire Clean I have decided to add it to my next Brownell's or MidwayUSA order and give it a try.
Flankenstein
09-28-15, 19:56
After I read the instructions, I decided I would stick with what I was using. I am trying to give it away locally.
Lol, that's what I'm saying man.
Aren't fireclean's instructions similar, if not identical though?
Using alcohol to degrease AK's with original soviet acetone based finishes is a no go too.
When stripping storage grease and foreign debris from imported weapons I use mineral spirits.
For those of us not in the know, can you post what the instructions are? I recall it being odd but I never heard the specifics.
I've never had any desire to try anything that was anything beyond a simple application.
jdchen0407
09-28-15, 20:10
I will gladly take any frog lube u guys wanna give away =)
Flankenstein
09-28-15, 20:34
For those of us not in the know, can you post what the instructions are? I recall it being odd but I never heard the specifics.
I've never had any desire to try anything that was anything beyond a simple application.
I don't have much desire either. Was a gift that I'd actually considered thoughtful, been laying around in the gun room for awhile.
As far as instructions, essentially- you've got to thoroughly degrease all parts then apply, and then apply heat to the metal w/ heat gun or blow dryer for best results...maybe not so for fireclean but def recall reading that on the froglube bottle. I might be missing something too, perhaps a user of one of the products will chime in and add more info or correct me.
Not the end of the world but for a product I'm not dying to use def kind of a PITA.
Major PITA to degrease my AKs though as they all have acetone based Russian or Bulgarian finishes.
I thought, at least a while back, FL said you could just apply it and it would take care of the degreasing, albeit over time. It wasn't the preferred method but it was supposed to work.
They also released their own solvent for the purpose based on user demand. I used it once to degrease a new gun and then only as need on particularly heavy carbon build up.
I'm a user of what I guess is the original recipe. Maybe that makes a difference.
I don't have much desire either. Was a gift that I'd actually considered thoughtful, been laying around in the gun room for awhile.
As far as instructions, essentially- you've got to thoroughly degrease all parts then apply, and then apply heat to the metal w/ heat gun or blow dryer for best results...maybe not so for fireclean but def recall reading that on the froglube bottle. I might be missing something too, perhaps a user of one of the products will chime in and add more info or correct me.
Not the end of the world but for a product I'm not dying to use def kind of a PITA.
Major PITA to degrease my AKs though as they all have acetone based Russian or Bulgarian finishes.
Yeah, no thanks.
I just want to put oil where oil needs to be put.
556BlackRifle
09-28-15, 20:53
My pocket gun Ruger LCP was starting to rust up. I tried several products but all the same result. Somebody gave me a sample of Frog Lube so I gave it a try. So far no rust. I know there are tests on youtube that show it to be inferior for corrosion resistance but it works great for me. And yes, the first application is a PITA. My EDC G23 has also been Frog Lubed but that's it. I just don't have the time to mess with anything else.....
The Frog Lube instructions and the claims they make are so ridiculous I don't see how they ever sold the first bottle of the stuff.
Flankenstein
09-28-15, 21:17
Yeah, no thanks.
I just want to put oil where oil needs to be put.
We are in the same boat, sir. I started this thread hoping people would chime in telling me the freaking lube voodoo wasn't necessary. Not looking like that so far...
daddyusmaximus
09-28-15, 21:19
Lucas Oil Extreme Duty gun oil. Apply and shoot. Break Free, same...
We are in the same boat, sir. I started this thread hoping people would chime in telling me the freaking lube voodoo wasn't necessary. Not looking like that so far...
They're all busy in that marathon FireClean thread. ;)
malstew123
09-28-15, 21:20
I am sure someone is gonna tell me I am doing it wrong, but I lube the bolt up liberally with Fireclean, and let it set in...then wipe clean after use.
daddyusmaximus
09-28-15, 21:23
EDIT: dupe post.
The ak finish is a dye on the phosphate. I would think alcohol would be okay for a quick hose down. If it comes off with alcohol, you could always put something more durable on it.
You could simple green the gun, then heat dry it.
Degreasing is not difficult or time consuming. Clean it well, rinse it in solvent, air dry. Done.
It's been a while since the first application and I'm not looking at the instructions. I think all I did was clean off the old lube and degrease with alcohol a couple of times. Then, I applied the FC, let it sit overnight, and applied a second coat. It was kind of a PITA but not enough to leave bad memories or nightmares.
Fireclean is pretty easy. Clean and degrease with alcohol, brake cleaner or acetone. I've even used MPro7 cleaner with Fireclean without any issues. Then just apply Fireclean like any other lube and go shoot.
The only precaution with Fireclean is to remove the previous petroleum based products from the gun before application.
Psalms144.1
09-29-15, 09:30
I went the whole 9 yards on all my weapons when I was running FL. Worked great. Then I moved to the arctic (NY), and found out the hard way that FL that "bleeds" out of the metal and isn't THOROUGHLY removed from the weapon turns into a waxy, sticky paste when exposed to cold weather. NOT bueno, not bueno at all...
I also found FL to be an exceptionally bad corrosion resistant (as in not any resistance at all). In under 24 hours carrying IWB in a high humidity environment, the meprolight NS on my P30 rusted so badly that rust actually "bled" down onto the slide and ate through the HE finish - that kind of bad. Might be a fluke, but, I dunno.
I've been slowly working my way through all of my FL'd weapons, re-stripping, and lubing with grease on rails and whatever non-FL oil I have elsewhere.
SomeOtherGuy
09-29-15, 09:52
My experience is only with Froglube. Using paste Froglube I did two BCGs per their instructions, total degrease and hot soak, etc. Those worked fine. I did a few other rifles with minimal processing - wiped existing oil off with a towel and applied Froglube by hand. Those also worked fine.
I found Froglube to be an awesome lube in the summer and when freshly applied, but it gets hard in cold temps and with age it sort of gums up. If I were in a desert I would probably run it exclusively. When I was using it I was in lower Michigan with a range of temps from hot to moderately cold and it was OK, but not ideal in winter. I since moved to northern Michigan where my adopted climate is barely warmer than Alaska (think Mat-Su valley for those who know AK), so I have decided to abandon FL before its cold weather features bite me. I'm now running SLIP2000 or Weaponshield depending what happened to be on the rifle at issue before my Froglube experiments. When I run out of those I may buy one or the other (not sure which) or may try that Lucas "extreme" gun oil.
MichaelVain
09-29-15, 14:00
i followed FireClean's instructions. I bought Isoprop alcohol from the drug store and soaked my SR25 ECC bolt carrier and bolt in it and scrubbed it. Then I applied FC to the bolt (generous) amount. It really didn't do anything for the carbon that was on the tail of the bolt, but it did make cleaning subsequent shooting easy (although other products did the same for me). I just don't think it does much for helping get existing caked on carbon off. Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Sparky5019
09-29-15, 14:49
I did the FL thing. It was nice but became sluggish in the cold and the cold we have here in NC isn't even really that cold. Switched to SLiP2000 EWL and have been extremely pleased since. Not going to try FireCanola. I suspect FL has similar ingredients but have not done any tests. There was a thread on here about lubes and cold. FL and FC performed nearly identical so that was enough for me.
Failure2Stop
09-29-15, 15:30
I found that FC worked as well as any other lube when dumped on top of existing lubes, but would get sticky after a while.
Thoroughly degreasing the parts prior to a dumping on FC was noticeably better.
Thoroughly cleaning, degreasing, and applying a few thin layers of FC worked the best for keeping carbon from adhering to parts and making clean-up with just a rag pretty fast.
I don't obsess over carbon on the bolt-tail, and it seems that FC reduces it, but it's always still there after a while.
Periodically adding FC to critical areas (cam pin, bolt carrier mouth, gas rings, chamber, locking lugs, ejector, firing pin, bolt catch, and FCG) keeps the gun chugging along very well.
When I first started shooting my AR carbine, I started with RemOil and when that ran out I used Birchwood Casey's which is about the same thing. I also tried a few of the others- CLP etc. When I got the Frog Lube to try, I just wiped everything down with a dry rag and hit the parts with the oily type Frog Lube. Never had any trouble. It thickens up but thins back out when I shoot, even in freezing temperatures. I've even applied it to my PPQ which was lubed in a couple of places with grease. No trouble there either. No pre-application voodoo, just slathered it on. I like the stuff
MichaelVain
09-30-15, 04:40
I found that FC worked as well as any other lube when dumped on top of existing lubes, but would get sticky after a while.
Thoroughly degreasing the parts prior to a dumping on FC was noticeably better.
Thoroughly cleaning, degreasing, and applying a few thin layers of FC worked the best for keeping carbon from adhering to parts and making clean-up with just a rag pretty fast.
I don't obsess over carbon on the bolt-tail, and it seems that FC reduces it, but it's always still there after a while.
Periodically adding FC to critical areas (cam pin, bolt carrier mouth, gas rings, chamber, locking lugs, ejector, firing pin, bolt catch, and FCG) keeps the gun chugging along very well.
This is the way I do it after you demonstrated at our class, especially getting it into bolt group like you showed us.
Inkslinger
09-30-15, 05:58
Who follow instructions? I use the paste in warmer months. I wipe off the bolt and carrier, slather on some FL, and that's it. I don't degrease or heat anything.
Tried FL on a few 1911s and the only thing good about it was the initial smell. Over time the smell got worse. As a "lube" it was too thick and waxy over time.
jdchen0407
09-30-15, 10:12
T2C is nice enough to donate some FL to me I shall post pictures for you guys on how it goes I do have a glock that has been frog lubed and no i did not do any of the instructions i simply put it on with a paint brush and went and shot it no problems at all. that same glock has been in my night stand for the past 2 months and while it does solidify when i shoot it, it turns back into liquid form. so no problems on my glock... but then again its a glock the thing could run with bacon grease lol
leibermuster
09-30-15, 12:14
Tried FL on a few 1911s and the only thing good about it was the initial smell. Over time the smell got worse. As a "lube" it was too thick and waxy over time.
I had the same problem and it got worse, if you have any residual oils in your gun it will react badly to them over time. Frog Lube states you must degrease your gun before which originally I was not aware of, that being said I did wash them out before applying. After a while I noticed it reacting to something(Petroleum based products) so I would clean and reapply FL. Eventually I found out about the solvent and bought that product, initial gun store advice on FL was all wrong keep in mind(2011). So I went with that and still had a reoccurring problems on my guns. The symptoms were a build up a danky smell orange dinge, so I completely degreased all my guns and then reapplied exactly like FL's video channel on YouTube.
The problem continued and I gave up. Back to Breakfree CLP. At this point I was like how degreased must my gun be and how clean must it be before applying "Frog Fail", I used a sonic cleaner on my BCG and other parts on top of this and some regular firing schedule as well. I used a light concentrate of simple green Biodegradable version when washing out my SR15 for example and washed the parts in a sink and after that with hot water again. The gun was dried after words and it was just metal, then applied a decent amount of Frog lube 2&1 formula and the same condition came back.
I had this problem with my HK especially in the Bolt, I believe it might have been HK's gun packing grease from the factory, that being said I lost all confidence I spent a major amount of time cleaning it off. Could have been oils in my magazine leftover as well and naturally as feeding during firing it carried some on the casings possibly, but these would be meniscal amounts.
Ammo:
American Eagle 55gr
PMC Green Tip M855
American Eagle M855
Ruag 63gr Premium ammo(Very Little used)
I did contact Larry lasky at FL and he was very helpful and pointed to me that they sell a Froglube degreaser ..WTF.. at this point I repeated the steps and the problem was still evident, and I simply said to myself "**** It". Ain't nobody got time for that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k
Conclusion:
I loved the idea of the FrogLube product being Bio Based,and its Minty smell, But it reacts to badly if it happens to get any other oil in contact with it. This also made me come back to the my initial findings that for the type of shooting I'm doing so many other oils are cheaper more easily available that really it just isn't worth the hassle. As for Fireclean I'm not rushing out to get some anytime soon at this point sorry LAV.
The only oils I would consider are:
Fireclean
Slip 2000
Gunzilla
ATF in a jam
Breakfree CLP (CF issue)
Hell Hoppes worked fine for me.
I have used Froglube on a karambit Knife I have and it is working fine.
For years I was a Froglube supporter. I'd had nothing but great things to say about it, and backed it 100%...hell, I even bought the t-shirt. I'd been on here plenty of times defending FL, telling people how they used too much, or didn't follow instructions, or how I never had problems with it freezing up, or gumming up...until it gummed up on me.
For years, I followed the instructions to the letter. All my firearms had been through the FL process multiple tumes, and all was well as far as I was concerned. A few days ago I went out with my shotgun, a Mossberg 500, and something happened. The gun wouldn't fire. To make a long story short, the FL had gummed up around the firing pin, and I was having light primer strikes.
I thought...I must have put too much on. Then it dawned on me, why the hell am I putting up with this shit? Why am I making excuses for FL? It made a functioning gun not function. That's unacceptable. I always told myself that if I'd ever experienced any of these problems that other people were having with FL, I'd be done with it.
Well, I'm a man of my word, so I'm finished with Froglube.
Why is it some folks are having problems with mixing FL with pet based lubes and others aren't? My AR had several types of various lubes used on it without degreasing, including oil out of the crankcase and the FL slathered on top of them has never been a problem
leibermuster
09-30-15, 13:16
Why is it some folks are having problems with mixing FL with pet based lubes and others aren't? My AR had several types of various lubes used on it without degreasing, including oil out of the crankcase and the FL slathered on top of them has never been a problem
According to FL you should not be doing that...Not sure... All I can say is I really went out of my way degreasing my guns and then reapplying FL and it was still having this issue. Perhaps you are on a shooting schedule and cleaning your guns after with a wipe down and FL has not reacted yet with old oils still in your gun.
One thing I will blantantly call out is considering the procedure FL demands from FL itself, they didn't have warning labels or directions on the bottles I purchased or any info about getting the solvent? If it's a 2 & 1 product and it must be degreased with say FL's own degreaser as well it should be advertised as such.
SomeOtherGuy
09-30-15, 13:57
I had the same problem and it got worse, if you have any residual oils in your gun it will react badly to them over time. Frog Lube states you must degrease your gun before which originally I was not aware of, that being said I did wash them out before applying. *** At this point I was like how degreased must my gun be and how clean must it be before applying "Frog Fail", I used a sonic cleaner on my BCG and other parts on top of this and some regular firing schedule as well. I used a light concentrate of simple green Biodegradable version when washing out my SR15 for example and washed the parts in a sink and after that with hot water again. The gun was dried after words and it was just metal, then applied a decent amount of Frog lube 2&1 formula and the same condition came back.
That's more thorough than anything I did, and I haven't had as much of a problem as you apparently did.
Why is it some folks are having problems with mixing FL with pet based lubes and others aren't? My AR had several types of various lubes used on it without degreasing, including oil out of the crankcase and the FL slathered on top of them has never been a problem
That's kinda the $64,000 question isn't it? Leibermuster's process sounds really thorough. The BCG of mine that FL worked best on was lubed with FL paste before a shot was fired, which may help. But I assume most or all BCGs come with machining oil or preservative oil before they reach the end user's hands, so it's not like you can start with something that has never once had any petroleum oil touch it.
I strongly suspect that the Froglube product is not always the same, whether that's due to intentional changes or unintended variations in the raw materials or process I don't know, but the range of results posted here seems to suggest it's not a uniform product.
FWIW, DSG Arms currently has all their Froglube products on sale at half off. I've noticed in the last couple of years that DSG's sales seem like a good barometer of the items that are going out of style. And let's be honest, some of the wonder lubes of the last 10-20 years have basically been snake oil going in and out of style.
Meanwhile, I'm going to switch to REAL snake oil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tj7ytiqxx8
I said a long time ago that Frog Lube was a trash product and was going to fall out of style and would be the next snake-oil lube on this very forum.
A couple of well respected guys here got their panties ALL in a wad.
I'm enjoyin' these threads.
SomeOtherGuy
10-01-15, 11:28
Oh my, they have just announced "Froglube Extreme!!!" which supposedly works in cold weather:
http://www.ar15news.com/2015/09/30/new-froglube-extreme-clp/
Stay tuned. The hyperbole in the intro/advertorial makes for good popcorn munching.
Oh my, they have just announced "Froglube Extreme!!!" which supposedly works in cold weather:
http://www.ar15news.com/2015/09/30/new-froglube-extreme-clp/
Stay tuned. The hyperbole in the intro/advertorial makes for good popcorn munching.
You've got to be kidding me. I can't believe I ever supported this shit. In all honesty, I never had a problem with the regular Froglube freezing up in cold tempetures, but now, they are telling you you need this, and you have to pay even more money for this crap to ensure it works in the extreme cold? They are calling this a gamechanger? Why? There's a million other lubes out there that have always worked in extreme tempetures. Somewhere, there’s a group of Seals out there laughing their asses off at how far they have been able to take this joke.
leibermuster
10-01-15, 16:50
You've got to be kidding me. I can't believe I ever supported this shit. In all honesty, I never had a problem with the regular Froglube freezing up in cold tempetures, but now, they are telling you you need this, and you have to pay even more money for this crap to ensure it works in the extreme cold? They are calling this a gamechanger? Why? There's a million other lubes out there that have always worked in extreme tempetures. Somewhere, there’s a group of Seals out there laughing their asses off at how far they have been able to take this joke.
From what I have herd from real insiders is that NO Seal will ever admit it sucks, but quietly some do under there breath. All I can say is originally when I bought it I didn't give a rats ass who made the stuff, but if anything over the last few years I have seen that community as detriment as a whole in recent years. What ever happened to the "Silent professionals".
lawusmc0844
10-04-15, 14:53
I can't believe there is so much Froglube hate here. To preface I use what works for me, Im not loyal to any brand so no Im not here to defend Froglube and get emotional over it. I also use Slip 2000 EWL CLP for cleaning and sometimes all three are mixed together without issue. Having said that, in my personal experience I've never had it cause malfunctions in any of the weapons I use it on, and I don't follow the instructions (I use alot) I haven't shot in an arctic environment so far but never had issues during winter months either. Before my 2 last Afghanistan deployments when I first bought FL all my personal weapons were cleaned, degreased, then lubed with FL. All unpainted steel parts had a thin layer of FL applied via my fingers before I locked them away in my safe. Seven months later I take my guns to the range and they shoot, the FL isn't waxy, not gumming up the action.
I know YMMV but in my experience FL works fine and I haven't had a problem with it. I won't buy anymore because I still got a 4 FL OZ jar left so I will keep using it until I run out.
I can't believe there is so much Froglube hate here. To preface I use what works for me, Im not loyal to any brand so no Im not here to defend Froglube and get emotional over it. I also use Slip 2000 EWL CLP for cleaning and sometimes all three are mixed together without issue. Having said that, in my personal experience I've never had it cause malfunctions in any of the weapons I use it on, and I don't follow the instructions (I use alot) I haven't shot in an arctic environment so far but never had issues during winter months either. Before my 2 last Afghanistan deployments when I first bought FL all my personal weapons were cleaned, degreased, then lubed with FL. All unpainted steel parts had a thin layer of FL applied via my fingers before I locked them away in my safe. Seven months later I take my guns to the range and they shoot, the FL isn't waxy, not gumming up the action.
I know YMMV but in my experience FL works fine and I haven't had a problem with it. I won't buy anymore because I still got a 4 FL OZ jar left so I will keep using it until I run out.
I used FL exclusively for years. I was usually one of the people defending FL on here, telling people to follow the directions, and how they won't have problems if they do. I never experienced problems in cold temps, or issues with it gumming up either, until recently when it did gum up on me. At first, I started coming up with excuses to why this happened...then I decided, who cares? It's bullshit, it's unacceptable, and it's not something a person should have to ever worry about when there's tons of other lubes out there that won't do this. Lucky for me this was a gun I was just taking out to shoot for fun and not one my life was depending on.
lawusmc0844
10-04-15, 18:41
Its weird because theres so many internet accounts of Froglube gumming up but I haven't experienced it. I never heated up my guns before application, even in the cold when the paste is hard, I still slather on the moving parts and it works. I've even used it on my issued M4 without issue.
Yes, if a lube fails on you then find something better, especially when theres so many good products on the market. I don't understand peoples brand loyalty. Find what works for you and use it, don't worry what others think unless they spread misinformation.
Its weird because theres so many internet accounts of Froglube gumming up but I haven't experienced it. I never heated up my guns before application, even in the cold when the paste is hard, I still slather on the moving parts and it works. I've even used it on my issued M4 without issue.
Yes, if a lube fails on you then find something better, especially when theres so many good products on the market. I don't understand peoples brand loyalty. Find what works for you and use it, don't worry what others think unless they spread misinformation.
There's a difference between internet accounts and first hand experiences. A lot of folks here, myself included, had firsthand experiences of FL failing. There's honestly no rhyme or reason to it. Some guys followed the directions, some didn't. It worked fine for some, but for others it turned into glue. It doesn't seem to matter if you did it right or not, it's just the luck of the draw.
leibermuster
10-04-15, 21:02
There's a difference between internet accounts and first hand experiences. A lot of folks here, myself included, had firsthand experiences of FL failing. There's honestly no rhyme or reason to it. Some guys followed the directions, some didn't. It worked fine for some, but for others it turned into glue. It doesn't seem to matter if you did it right or not, it's just the luck of the draw.
Too note: I never experienced any Failures of any kind with Froglube, but where it failed was the dinge that started coming out after over a while. Anyways since dumping froglube my first magazine on all guns fired up here in Canada 5 rds mags I had 2/5 rds primer strike no fire. Then all other magazines fired were fine after that.. I cleaned my guns of froglube then added CLP for next firing schedule which had those results.
In my conclusion there is something fishy about this product, I don't trust it and there is much more I want to say but can't yet!
lazerblazer
10-05-15, 09:46
I want to know which frog lube you folks were using, the paste, the goo or wipes? I use all three without issue, I also tend to clean my defensive use guns more often because of use. The guns that do sit for months at a time are cleaned with fl via the same good wipe down with rags then fl slather as the defensive guns. No issues to date, I will note that the lid to my goo is gummed up in spots, so who knows... am I stupid for staying with something that works for me and not for others?
I want to know which frog lube you folks were using, the paste, the goo or wipes?
All three.
I think people who clean often and follow the instructions don't have problems for two reasons.
Reason 1) The stuff doesn't stay there long enough to old and gel/gum up.
Reason 2) And this is the super obvious indication the stuff is garbage.... The instructions basically tell you to completely remove all of it. The stuff does not soak through your finish and embed itself into the pores of the base metal, only to expose itself when the temp goes up a little. It just doesn't. The people who sell this junk have to know that it will clog up your gun or they wouldn't tell to get it off the gun before you use it.
I think people who clean often and follow the instructions don't have problems for two reasons.
Reason 1) The stuff doesn't stay there long enough to old and gel/gum up.
Reason 2) And this is the super obvious indication the stuff is garbage.... The instructions basically tell you to completely remove all of it. The stuff does not soak through your finish and embed itself into the pores of the base metal, only to expose itself when the temp goes up a little. It just doesn't. The people who sell this junk have to know that it will clog up your gun or they wouldn't tell to get it off the gun before you use it.
Reason #2 is what always confounded me. I was criticized for using too much FL and "over lubing". That's horseshit. The critics always said, you're only supposed to use a light coat and wipe away the excess. Translation: you have to clean the gun every time you want to relube. No thanks.
I want to know which frog lube you folks were using, the paste, the goo or wipes? I use all three without issue, I also tend to clean my defensive use guns more often because of use. The guns that do sit for months at a time are cleaned with fl via the same good wipe down with rags then fl slather as the defensive guns. No issues to date, I will note that the lid to my goo is gummed up in spots, so who knows... am I stupid for staying with something that works for me and not for others?
I used all 3, and also used the FL solvent. I'll be the 1st to tell you that I thought the stuff was great for a number of years. I bought into all the claims, such as the Froglube seasoning your gun and soaking into the pores and all of that. The funny thing is...steel doesn't have pores. At least that's what I was told by a metallurgical engineer.
wildcard600
10-05-15, 15:26
FL gums up in my experience. I followed the FL instructions to degrease and heat. I'm going to finish using what i have and go back to break free CLP and motor oil. Might try FC sometime but i won't be purchasing FL again.
YMMV
lawusmc0844
10-05-15, 20:03
I've only used the paste, so no experience with the other products
Reason #2 is what always confounded me. I was criticized for using too much FL and "over lubing". That's horseshit. The critics always said, you're only supposed to use a light coat and wipe away the excess. Translation: you have to clean the gun every time you want to relube. No thanks.
I've been criticized for the same thing "You used too much FL, your gun will fail!" I even had a gunstore guy, cool guy not a typical commando, tell me my Hi-Power's trigger isn't resetting because I used too much FL. (It had this issue before I even heard of FL. My mistake is buying the HP without checking the trigger but that is another subject) Like I've said earlier, never had a problem and I use alot of it too. I still think it works for what it is but like I also said earlier I won't buy anymore.
I'll still use it to coat my blades since if I have to use them for cutting food I know I won't be ingesting CLP, and a knife won't malfunction on me lol.
I had been using frog lube on my SBR, and had added other types of oil while at the range, etc. It turned into a honey like substance and gummed up my safety and other internals. I am NOT a fan of frog lube anymore! Be careful!
leibermuster
10-06-15, 10:41
I had been using frog lube on my SBR, and had added other types of oil while at the range, etc. It turned into a honey like substance and gummed up my safety and other internals. I am NOT a fan of frog lube anymore! Be careful!
In FROGFAILS defense you are not to mix other Petroleum based products with it ever!
Thesandstonefiles
10-06-15, 10:57
I've had Frog lube gum up and I followed the instructions.
My worthless opinion is this: if you shoot a lot and maintain the gun frequently it seems like Frog lube is pretty good. If your gun sits for a period of time it would seem you run the risk of it gumming up. I can't shoot as frequently as I used to due to having an 18 month old so my guns tend to sit. I just don't want to run the risk so I stopped using it.
Thesandstonefiles
10-06-15, 11:02
I've only used the paste, so no experience with the other products
I've been criticized for the same thing "You used too much FL, your gun will fail!" I even had a gunstore guy, cool guy not a typical commando, tell me my Hi-Power's trigger isn't resetting because I used too much FL. (It had this issue before I even heard of FL. My mistake is buying the HP without checking the trigger but that is another subject) Like I've said earlier, never had a problem and I use alot of it too. I still think it works for what it is but like I also said earlier I won't buy anymore.
I'll still use it to coat my blades since if I have to use them for cutting food I know I won't be ingesting CLP, and a knife won't malfunction on me lol.
A lot of people say that but there is a YouTube vid of either a Froglube employee or a Midway employee pimping flFroglube and he clearly says you can put as much or as little as you want on.
A lot of people say that but there is a YouTube vid of either a Froglube employee or a Midway employee pimping flFroglube and he clearly says you can put as much or as little as you want on.
Oddly, the instructions state otherwise and you're supposed to wipe away any excess. When I used it, I applied it wet like any other lube, without removing the excess. Fast forward three months and a thousand rounds, glue in my guns. The defenders immediately cried foul and said I had over lubed. The idea of over lubrication or that it's even possible is ludicrous.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-06-15, 11:55
For 20 plus years I have been using Break-Free, Rem-oil, Hoppes, etc with zero drama. Frankly I should probably be using motor oil. I am always surprised how much energy people put into this lube stuff.
In FROGFAILS defense you are not to mix other Petroleum based products with it ever!
Understandable, however I wasn't aware of that. Regardless, I'm not a fan of a product that goes on something I might rely on, and if I happen to run out, can't use another similar product to supplement it. If I'm at a training venue and say the bottle gets crushed, and all the froglube leaks out, or some other similar instance, I can't use a different lube to finish out the venue? OR, if I do, I have to go back and strip everything back down to clean it all off. I'll stick with fireclean.
Thesandstonefiles
10-06-15, 17:23
Yeah I know. Just saying what I saw on a video. Guess I could dig it up.
I totally agree too. The idea of over lubracation is asinine imo.
Sorry. I goofed. This was a reply to mtdawg169
Thesandstonefiles
10-06-15, 17:28
Good stuff starts at 1:20. "You can put parts in gun wet if you want". "No gumming up". Lol, about that Mr. Froglube employee.....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQC1tGHWk4
I started using Froglube in 2011 just after I came back from Africa. I generally followed the instructions and never had an issue with it. Granted, I live in AZ, but I used it winter (November) in Tucson where the temps overnight were in the 30's. That morning at the beginning of the carbine course temps were in the 60's and gradually warmed up.
Later I dumped a 1/2 gallon into a crock pot and heated it up. Parts when into the pot for a few hours, pulled them out and let them drip dry. I wiped off the excess, put it together and shot as normal. I never experienced any malfunctions using Froglube.
Thesandstonefiles
10-06-15, 17:46
Yeah I should mention I was in Upstate NY when that happened to me.
I started using Froglube in 2011 just after I came back from Africa. I generally followed the instructions and never had an issue with it. Granted, I live in AZ, but I used it winter (November) in Tucson where the temps overnight were in the 30's. That morning at the beginning of the carbine course temps were in the 60's and gradually warmed up.
Later I dumped a 1/2 gallon into a crock pot and heated it up. Parts when into the pot for a few hours, pulled them out and let them drip dry. I wiped off the excess, put it together and shot as normal. I never experienced any malfunctions using Froglube.
A few years ago, I stepped away from firearms to focus on some of my other interests. At the time I left, Frog Lube was a seriously "proper"/popular product. I gave it a try and started using it on my DD M4 (V3), LE6920, Gen4 G19, Gen3 G26, P30, and PPQ (I kind of liked the 9mm platform at that specific point in time).
I exclusively used the "liquid" variant of Frog Lube. I would put a single drop on my finger and wipe down slide rails, BCGs, etc. Whether I was shooting outdoor in the winter or indoor at a climate-controlled range, I never experienced any malfunctions with Frog Lube. Nor did I ever see the FL "gumming up." The only weapon I did not shoot regularly was my backup carbine (a DD M4 (V1)).
Even with months of storage, the FL-treated V1 was still slick and waxy. When I finally decided to put some rounds through it, outdoors, in cool weather, the FL returned to a liquid form and the V1 ran great.
Just this past week, I decided to get back into shooting. When I left, I had parted with my entire collection. I "began again" by picking up a Gen4 G19. I'll have another LE6920, along with plenty of ammo, en route soon. As I am preparing to spend more time training/knocking off the rust, I have been reading/researching extensively on M4C.
I was curious to see if there had been any significant changes with respect to: 1) opinions on certain gear; 2) training philosophies.
Part of my gear research included checking up on FL. I was surprised to see a fair amount of criticism (not only because I had never had any problems with it, but because it was initially so well received by not only members here, but by trustworthy/respected industry SMEs).
I'm going to keep rolling with the FL, as my experience has resembled that of Iraqgunz. I want to point out that I fully believe the accounts of those who have had problems with the FL. What's important is that you're using something that you believe in and trust. My recent research has me curious in the Fireclean product, but now there seems to be a bit of controversy about that as well (vegetable oil?).
If the FL continues to work for me, I'll continue to use it. Should I experience any problems, I'll be sure to report them. I never really thought much about lube (had used motor oil, CLP, and some Slip 2000 prior to trying FL).
Feels good to be back in this community. Truly missed the wealth of knowledge here.
PS - Not trying to resurrect a dead thread; just thought it more appropriate to post here than unnecessarily clutter things up with yet another lube thread.
Thought it might be worthwhile to offer some perspective as someone that has 1) used the product; and 2) was surprised by how drastically the product's perception had changed in (at least in the eyes of a very vocal contingent) a relatively short amount of time. It's amazing how certain trends "pop up" and stay, while others sort of gradually trickle out or reverse course.
I used to use it really like it. But after pulling my wifes 1911 out after a few months, it was so gummy I could pull the slide back let go and get a stop watch to time the return. Maybe I got to much, still have plenty maybe will try again later.
Never really had a issue in the AR's.
Just get Slip 2000 EWL. That stuff is great and doesn't stain clothes.
Just get Slip 2000 EWL. That stuff is great and doesn't stain clothes.
been using slip for years, and nary a problem
The voodoo ritual of application , and the claim that it soaks into the your gun pores is horse shit ...steel doesn't have pores.
I started using Froglube in 2011 just after I came back from Africa. I generally followed the instructions and never had an issue with it. Granted, I live in AZ, but I used it winter (November) in Tucson where the temps overnight were in the 30's. That morning at the beginning of the carbine course temps were in the 60's and gradually warmed up.
Later I dumped a 1/2 gallon into a crock pot and heated it up. Parts when into the pot for a few hours, pulled them out and let them drip dry. I wiped off the excess, put it together and shot as normal. I never experienced any malfunctions using Froglube.
Here in MI it is common for winter daytime highs to not get above zero degrees making your overnight low of 30 degrees pretty warm by comparison. Point being "cold weather" is a relative term.
I saw this post about Fireclean on the 1911 Forum. https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=506665
The first post reads "I oil up my guns that i don't use every 6 months or so. I use fire clean on my AR's and pistols. I got my Kimber Tactical and Springfield Mil-Spec out of the save and they were completely locked up. I couldn't break the lock with my hands. I had to use the edge of a table (lucky i use a GI Guide rod) to break the lock. Crazy. Even after cleaning the rails were skill sticky. I had to use water on rags and Q tips to get all the crap off. Even my Springfield TRP was slow moving. If i dropped the slide it would take a full second to close. On my AR's i never had a problem with fire clean but on pistols its terrible. They only thing i can think of is its not to be used on tight fitting guns?"
Failure2Stop
12-14-15, 13:41
I saw this post about Fireclean on the 1911 Forum. https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=506665
The first post reads "I oil up my guns that i don't use every 6 months or so. I use fire clean on my AR's and pistols. I got my Kimber Tactical and Springfield Mil-Spec out of the save and they were completely locked up. I couldn't break the lock with my hands. I had to use the edge of a table (lucky i use a GI Guide rod) to break the lock. Crazy. Even after cleaning the rails were skill sticky. I had to use water on rags and Q tips to get all the crap off. Even my Springfield TRP was slow moving. If i dropped the slide it would take a full second to close. On my AR's i never had a problem with fire clean but on pistols its terrible. They only thing i can think of is its not to be used on tight fitting guns?"
I have FC on way too much stuff to believe that this user experienced this issue with a gun lubricated per directions.
I have FC on way too much stuff to believe that this user experienced this issue with a gun lubricated per directions.
Makes sense. I have this same reaction to the reports of Frog Lube "gumming up" various guns. I had run it on a variety of platforms in the past with no problems. I never read the instructions. I never heated up any of my weapons. I just realized how far small amounts of the stuff went, so always used it sparingly. I was willing to accept a change in mindset in the sense that I didn't have to absolutely pour the FL over everything. 1 or 2 drops of the liquid FL would lubricate an entire pistol or BCG (in my experience). I didn't wipe any of the liquid FL away, either. I just treated it like motor oil but used less solution.
That said, I respect the opinions, decisions, and reports of the various members and SMEs here. Now that I'm back shooting, I think I'm going to be doing some thorough testing of my remaining FL. The weather here is going to be nice and cold soon. I'll report back with my findings.
If I don't have problems, I'll continue to run it. If I do, I have no problem going back to something like Slip 2000 (or just motor oil, for that matter). Both of them are just as easy to use, for me, as I simply use the amount of lube that I feel is required for the platform. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Flankenstein
12-14-15, 15:26
Just get Slip 2000 EWL. That stuff is great and doesn't stain clothes.
My go to...This thread kinda took off and I stopped checking in. The two wonder products were gifts I received last year.
Flankenstein
12-14-15, 15:27
The voodoo ritual of application , and the claim that it soaks into the your gun pores is horse shit ...steel doesn't have pores.
My BCGs breakout when estro levels get out of whack or they eat too much chocolate
If a lube needs instructions, that tells me all i need to know about that product.
Life is too short to use lube that needs instructions
I have FC on way too much stuff to believe that this user experienced this issue with a gun lubricated per directions.
Agreed, even without necessarily following instructions I find it hard to believe. I have FireClean on all of my guns plus my issued M4. Only on a few of them did I actually follow the instructions and degrease with brake cleaner. So far no issues, and it keeps the gun lubricated much longer than Slip ever did. I'm sure it helps to follow the directions but I haven't noticed a difference either way. Several of my guns (two BCMs, G19, 870, SAM7R, Colt Rail Gun, M&P9, and M&P 15-22) sat in a closet for about 6 months with FC applied. All not only worked normally, they were still lubricated. Next time I see half of them it'll have been probably a year and a half since they were touched. I'll get some pictures if I remember.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Failure2Stop
12-15-15, 14:49
If a lube needs instructions, that tells me all i need to know about that product.
Life is too short to use lube that needs instructions
Chemical incompatibility is a thing.
Mix the wrong substances together and issues will arise, even if it's something as simple as not working as desired.
This is not limited to the firearms world.
Chemical incompatibility is a thing.
Mix the wrong substances together and issues will arise, even if it's something as simple as not working as desired.
This is not limited to the firearms world.
Thats all fine and dandy, but lots of proven lubricants dont need me to sterilize my rifle, they don't require me to use a specific amount of lube, and can pretty much stay sitting in my safe, lubed up, for several months, and shoot without issue.
More than can be said for fireclean and fraud lube
Fwiw, i consider fireclean to be worlds better than FL, but 10w30 synthetic motor oil and slip 2000 make it look silly
I wouldn't tend to agree with that. I have not found a better product in use as FC. You do need to strip the old lube out and apply it as directed, not just mopped on.
I wouldn't tend to agree with that. I have not found a better product in use as FC. You do need to strip the old lube out and apply it as directed, not just mopped on.
How?
but why even bother with that? I've used both (until the FC bottle fell apart, and leaked all over my reloading bench) and have never noticed any lack of performance with slip 2000
How what?
A proper application of FC lasts a long time in use. If you are talking about reapplication of lube to insure function, then you may be missing the point. Not to mention how safe it may be to the user in the long run. You could potentially mop on about anything slick and keep a gun running. I'm talking about a proper application of a product and use it till lube related failures occur without reapplication, just running the gun.
How what?
A proper application of FC lasts a long time in use. If you are talking about reapplication of lube to insure function, then you may be missing the point. Not to mention how safe it may be to the user in the long run. You could potentially mop on about anything slick and keep a gun running. I'm talking about a proper application of a product and use it till lube related failures occur without reapplication, just running the gun.
How is fireclean better than say, slip 2000? Ive used both, and nothing about FC justifies it's flaws
I figured the fact i highlighted parts of your comment, and put my replies in the same color made this perfectly clear, but i guess not.
For "proper aplication" any half decent lube just needs to be put on, no matter what was previously used in the firearm.
Do yourself a favor and cut back on the caffeine and relax a little.
How is fireclean better than say, slip 2000? Ive used both, and nothing about FC justifies it's flaws
I figured the fact i highlighted parts of your comment, and put my replies in the same color made this perfectly clear, but i guess not.
For "proper aplication" any half decent lube just needs to be put on, no matter what was previously used in the firearm.
I've tried slip 2000 on a few platforms. I wouldn't say it is bad, but may not be preferable to other options I've used.
What are these FC flaws you speak of? If properly applied, the thin film works well. What is your process for the application?
I really don't care if you spilled it or whatever. I'm talking about function. If a bottle turned to tissue paper, I don't care. I'm talking about function. If a user is deficient in things, I don't care. I'm talking about the product use in function.
When you include other subjects outside of use, I would tend to question your line of logic on the issue for use.
How is fireclean better than say, slip 2000? Ive used both, and nothing about FC justifies it's flaws
I figured the fact i highlighted parts of your comment, and put my replies in the same color made this perfectly clear, but i guess not.
For "proper aplication" any half decent lube just needs to be put on, no matter what was previously used in the firearm.
What flaws would those be??
FC works way better then Slip 2000.
I have both, been using both.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I would say that having to completely strip your firearm is pretty stupid, and the fact that if you apply too much, it can gum up.
Is no one going to explain how FC is "better"?
You should consider saving some face.
FC does work better in function when applied properly, compared to slip or motor oil, with many less disadvantages. There may be a better product in the future, this is what we work with today.
I would say that having to completely strip your firearm is pretty stupid, and the fact that if you apply too much, it can gum up.
Is no one going to explain how FC is "better"?
Why is that a bad thing?
Has anyone on this board actually have a gum up issue with FC???
Why is that a bad thing?
Has anyone on this board actually have a gum up issue with FC???
Larry vickers has, he mentioned it on his facebook page when everyonewent nuts over the whole crisco = fireclean fiasco
I had noticed it getting kinda stcky on my rifle, but it shot fine. I stopped using it after that.
So, can you please explain how FC is better than slip?
Clean it as directed, apply it as directed. After that, make your own conclusions.
Clean it as directed, apply it as directed. After that, make your own conclusions.
Or i can just dip my bcg in motor oil, or slip 2000.
Can you please point out why FC is better than slip 2000?
So, can you please explain how FC is better than slip?
cleans up easier, stays put, stays wet longer,
BufordTJustice
12-15-15, 18:50
Thats all fine and dandy, but lots of proven lubricants dont need me to sterilize my rifle, they don't require me to use a specific amount of lube, and can pretty much stay sitting in my safe, lubed up, for several months, and shoot without issue.
More than can be said for fireclean and fraud lube
Fwiw, i consider fireclean to be worlds better than FL, but 10w30 synthetic motor oil and slip 2000 make it look silly
Not accurate. They just didn't warn you about any chemical incompatibilities.
Jack is right. It is a thing. Ask any aircraft or heavy machinery mechanic about mixing incompatible lubes or greases.
cleans up easier, stays put, stays wet longer,
Literally the exact opposite of my experience with it.
And yes, the instructions were followed.
BufordTJustice
12-15-15, 18:57
Literally the exact opposite of my experience with it.
And yes, the instructions were followed.
I don't believe that you followed the instructions properly. Larry admitted he had failed to clean his weapon properly prior to application.
You would literally be THE FIRST PERSON to have any issues after cleaning off all prior lube.
You could "dip" a BCG into about anything slick and get a low lube gun to run.
In terms of function for an application, what addition may reduce lube related malfunctions without an additional application for an extended duration?
Does slip work better? Or does FC? In terms of function? Some things can be clearer in use.
You may want to look at replies to this thread and notice who some of us are that have been in the industry. A general consensus on your part does not mean a fact that that is true.
I would not tend to choose a lube that requires a more frequent application than others. The use in function for that is the question. What product better aligns with that?
I don't believe that you followed the instructions properly. Larry admitted he had failed to clean his weapon properly prior to application.
You would literally be THE FIRST PERSON to have any issues after cleaning off all prior lube.
You don't believe me? Were you looking over my shoulder?
The instructions were followed, the only thing i might have done wrong is left the rifle in the safe a bit too long, but that is hardly an excuse
I would also suggest that you reread my comments, the fact the FC was getting stcky made me switch, the rifle still functioned fine, but slip 2000 and motor oil haven't gotten sticky yet.
You could "dip" a BCG into about anything slick and get a low lube gun to run.
In terms of function for an application, what addition may reduce lube related malfunctions without an additional application for an extended duration?
Does slip work better? Or does FC? In terms of function? Some things can be clearer in use.
You may want to look at replies to this thread and notice who some of us are that have been in the industry. A general consensus on your part does not mean a fact that that is true.
I would not tend to choose a lube that requires a more frequent application than others. The use in function for that is the question. What product better aligns with that?
But if you dip it into FC, you run the risk of having issues.
Slip requires more frequent application? They ard about the same in my experience.
Wow, you are pretty far gone on this.
I'll step out, do what you want. You may make the choice and go with that.
misanthropist
12-15-15, 20:36
I just don't see the point of using boutique lubes from gun-specific companies. They're never going to have the R&D power that somebody like Shell will.
You want something exotic? Get the lube they use on drilling equipment in salt mines or something.
Otherwise, I just can't really wrap my head around paying fireclean or froglube prices for really simple chemical mixes with a lot of marketing behind them.
cleans up easier, stays put, stays wet longer,
Let me preface this by saying I'm currently using fire clean and am happy with it. For me slip ewl 30 cleaned up about as easily as FC, stayed put better and stays wet about the same amount of time. I've never experienced the ease of cleanup or carbon cleaning power that everyone boasts about. FC works, however it doesn't seem to work any better than anything else for me. The nice advantages that I have found while using FC are how smooth it makes the trigger pull feel and how smooth the action is. I also like that it's non toxic and doesn't dry out or hurt my hands in anyway. I'll either buy more FC when I run out or go back to using ewl 30. I'm sure I'll be happy either way. I have nothing positive to say about froglube.
Follow the directions, degrease, apply and be happy.
Rermey Lee
12-16-15, 16:47
I thought fire clean was just re-branded crisco vegetable oil
I thought fire clean was just re-branded crisco vegetable oil
You actually believed that?
RetroRevolver77
12-16-15, 23:21
You actually believed that?
Yes. I still do.
misanthropist
12-16-15, 23:34
You actually believed that?
Is there evidence to the contrary? I mean not that it's not specifically Crisco, but that there's something in it rendering significantly different than regular vegetable oil?
Vegetable oil does get used as an industrial lubricant in some applications so it's not without precedent. And really, if it's an organic, non-toxic product options are pretty limited. But if there's nothing else in it, or certainly if there's nothing that alters its properties significantly from the base oil, why not just use the base oil?
I mean if there's evidence for something in it that would give it noticeably superior properties, I'm open to that, but I haven't seen that evidence anywhere, personally. Not saying it's not out there, of course, but I haven't seen it.
BufordTJustice
12-17-15, 07:47
Major reading comprehension issues coming to light here.
This has been settled. Definitively.
It is a veg oil
It is not off the shelf "Vegetable" (soybean) oil
It is not off the shelf canola oil
It behaves much differently than either when used in and ar for lube.
If you don't know what you're looking at, ir scans can be very misleading.
Op, you need to degrease thouroughly with something that doesn't leave a residue.
Eurodriver
12-17-15, 08:25
If there was one thing to ever keep me away from M4C permanently it would be these ****ing lubricant threads.
Why is there so much passion and emotion tied to this stuff?
Failure2Stop
12-17-15, 08:37
If there was one thing to ever keep me away from M4C permanently it would be these ****ing lubricant threads.
Why is there so much passion and emotion tied to this stuff?
Agreed.
Not much less interesting than arguing about lube.
Find something that works for your requirements and shoot the gun.
My only issue is when people push bad data or spread misinformation good products that have a good track record.
I've been using frog lube for a couple of years now, here is what i've learned
1) Follow the instructions as far as cleaning old lube, heating the surface and then applying lube
2) Follow the instructions as far as wiping the lube off - I found this to be the most important thing to do or you will get gumming. The surface needs to be wiped completely "dry" after it has cooled down from the heat treatment
3) Clean up is easier then ever before with just a quick wipe down. My process is dry patch/wipe everything till you get clean patches - lightly wet patch to push through the barrel (re-lubing) and then dry patch.
When I first got the stuff, I did like I always used to do and left everything wet, that is when I noticed the gumming issues. Since then I heat treat, let cool, heat again and wipe ALL excess off and have not had any problems. Plus clean up is so friggen fast and easy.
If there was one thing to ever keep me away from M4C permanently it would be these ****ing lubricant threads.
Why is there so much passion and emotion tied to this stuff?
I agree. People do get worked up if you disagree with their point of view. I've tried a few of the newer lubes and I am certain they serve people well, but I keep going back to what I have been using successfully for years.
Use what works best for you. I know guys who still use Singer Sewing Machine Oil, 3 in 1 Oil, Hoppe's Gun Oil, motor oil, wheel bearing grease, you name it, on their 1911s, Garands, AR-15s, bolt guns and shotguns. If it is thinner you have to apply more lube more frequently. The only thing a majority of them say to avoid is WD-40.
It ain't rocket science. If the newer lubes work for you, keep using them.
SomeOtherGuy
12-17-15, 13:33
If there was one thing to ever keep me away from M4C permanently it would be these ****ing lubricant threads.
Why is there so much passion and emotion tied to this stuff?
Because most other AR reliability and durability questions have simple right/wrong answers.
The lube threads go overboard, but are sometimes useful. I would probably be using Hoppes if it weren't for lube threads, and I'm convinced that my (unspecified) lube choices based on discussions here are better than Hoppes.
If you don't find the lube threads interesting, avoid them. I do that with topics where I think the discussion is stupid or I have nothing to add.
BufordTJustice
12-17-15, 16:27
My only issue is when people push bad data or spread misinformation [about] good products that have a good track record.
This.
Because MISinformation weakens the knowledge base of the forum. Have dozens of associates who all use FireClean without issue just because they used the rest of a can of brake/carb/choke cleaner before using FC the first time. This is not rocket surgery.
If there was one thing to ever keep me away from M4C permanently it would be these ****ing lubricant threads.
Why is there so much passion and emotion tied to this stuff?
This place's version of a holy war... People really get invested in the things that they can be "right" about, and lube is one of the things that doesn't have a right/wrong answer.
Rermey Lee
12-17-15, 22:00
I'm tempted to just buy some vegetable oil at the store and see how that does.
I'm tempted to just buy some vegetable oil at the store and see how that does.
Let us know how it goes, maybe try some peanut oil.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I'm tempted to just buy some vegetable oil at the store and see how that does.
It's been done. On this site actually.
Failure2Stop
12-18-15, 07:05
I'm tempted to just buy some vegetable oil at the store and see how that does.
It's been done. On this site actually.
Yup.
Seriously...move on.
Real life Groundhog Day, this topic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TheChunkNorris
12-18-15, 09:38
Just throwing in my .02. I've been using FC for a couple years now and noticed how much more effective it was not so much on my ARs but more on my suppressors. I shoot .22LR all the time through a Sico Specter. Before using FC and cleaning the baffles around 1k rounds... it was a pain in the ass. Anyone who either shoots dirty centerfire ammo or rimfire know how much carbon builds on baffles. My clean up time has drastically been reduced now that I use FC... I separate the baffles, wipe and maybe have to chip some carbon off but nothing like before.
With that said, that's why it's used in all my firearms. I do however deploy 8 months a year and my safe is climate controlled. Before I leave, each of my weapons get cleaned and wiped down. After being gone for extended periods of time(I don't get R&R), there's never been an issue of it gumming.
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 10:37
Yup.
Seriously...move on.
Like real world testing? Like buy some crisco vegetable oil for one gun and buy some fire clean for another gun and shoot the piss outta them and see which one does better? because I would be interested in seeing that.
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 10:37
Just throwing in my .02. I've been using BC for a couple years now and noticed how much more effective it was not so much on my ARs but more on my suppressors. I shoot .22LR all the time through a Sico Specter. Before using BC and cleaning the baffles around 1k rounds... it was a pain in the ass. Anyone who either shoots dirty centerfire ammo or rimfire know how much carbon builds on baffles. My clean up time has drastically been reduced now that I use BC... I separate the baffles, wipe and maybe have to chip some carbon off but nothing like before.
With that said, that's why it's used in all my firearms. I do however deploy 8 months a year and my safe is climate controlled. Before I leave, each of my weapons get cleaned and wiped down. After being gone for extended periods of time(I don't get R&R), there's never been an issue of it gumming.
What's BC?
Like real world testing? Like buy some crisco vegetable oil for one gun and buy some fire clean for another gun and shoot the piss outta them and see which one does better? because I would be interested in seeing that.
Yes, search.
TheChunkNorris
12-18-15, 10:38
What's BC?
My bad... should be FC. I'll make that correction now.
Fordtough25
12-18-15, 10:52
I never payed much attention to either of these lubes, but I got a sample of Fireclean in my Pat Mcnamara Taps video. I may clean my Vtac M&P real good and try it on that.
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 10:52
Yes, search.
Interesting! what was the result?
TheChunkNorris
12-18-15, 10:58
Interesting! what was the result?
Think he's telling you to search the subject.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting! what was the result?
Fireclean worked better without question.
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 11:09
Fireclean worked better without question.
Hmmm. guess they must not be the same :laugh:
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 11:10
My bad... should be FC. I'll make that correction now.
Oh haha, I kept trying to figure out what BC stood for. I was thinking some kind of new ballistol or something.
Interesting! what was the result?
For God's sake, it's in this thread. It's been attempted more than once with vegetable oil and canola oil. They fail miserably. Fireclean works. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Try it and find out for yourself.
It's difficult to have a positive conversation with a person or party who is not informed or misinformed on a subject. Sometimes the other person or party are open to more information in a positive manner, others do not. When they do not, what choices do you have? If you pursue the conversation, you may make progress. If you notice it and run, they feel justified.
I really think these subjects are better served with some positive content. If they listen, sure continue on. If they do not, you have to bow out at a point.
If a less correct opinion on a subject is ignored initially, then more accept that opinion, as it wasn't countered.
The subject may be many things, the point is that misinformation on commercial products happens this way with too much frequency.
Rermey Lee
12-18-15, 19:34
For God's sake, it's in this thread. It's been attempted more than once with vegetable oil and canola oil. They fail miserably. Fireclean works. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Try it and find out for yourself.
Wow! ….
It's difficult to have a positive conversation with a person or party who is not informed or misinformed on a subject. Sometimes the other person or party are open to more information in a positive manner, others do not. When they do not, what choices do you have? If you pursue the conversation, you may make progress. If you notice it and run, they feel justified.
I really think these subjects are better served with some positive content. If they listen, sure continue on. If they do not, you have to bow out at a point.
If a less correct opinion on a subject is ignored initially, then more accept that opinion, as it wasn't countered.
The subject may be many things, the point is that misinformation on commercial products happens this way with too much frequency.
I agree with this. However, this subject (and this thread specifically) has other threads that live around here almost as alternate universes. The only thing different being the usernames. Hell, the conversations even unfold in the same manner, with the same suggestions.
That was the reason for my earlier "Groundhog Day" comment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.