View Full Version : Oregon community college shooting
I'm hearing now 15 dead and 5 more "likely". Can't find much on media though.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/active_shooting_reported_at_um.html
The only thing I can find says 15 killed, 20 injured, shooter in custody
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yeah it was on CNN as I was walking through the lobby a little bit ago.
Here we go again.......
Or we could hold one person accountable for his actions instead of parading around how stuff 'needs' to be banned.
How long before claims of a false flag op?
CNN female anchor stressed that the school is a GUN FREE zone.
Or we could hold one person accountable for his actions instead of parading around how stuff 'needs' to be banned.
Are you high? If the media started using logic then you better put on a helmet cuz the world would be coming to an end.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 14:20
Or we could hold one person accountable for his actions instead of parading around how stuff 'needs' to be banned.
The best example is the FCC.
The FCC allows an operator to own/possess whatever the hell kind of transceiver he or she wants. It is the manner in which said transceiver is used that is subject to regulation. So basically, if you don't break the law with it, party on.
The FCC plays by big boy rules, and the community of licensed operators are pretty much self-policing. It's amazing what happens when you're treated like an adult.
When it comes to guns, well, we all know how that works.
CNN female anchor stressed that the school is a GUN FREE zone.
Maybe if the sign were bigger. They need a bigger sign next time
titsonritz
10-01-15, 14:23
Or we could hold one person accountable for his actions instead of parading around how stuff 'needs' to be banned.
You mean SB941 was ineffective?
This blows. I am from Oregon and have family in Roseburg. I am in Oklahoma right now watching this on FOX. They were saying no one heard shots, speculation of a suppressor. Any confirmation on this?
Prayers out to all the kids and their families.
OH COME ON...
Just as ammo prices were coming back to normal...
I hear you Outlander, but would it have made people feel better if dude used a knife or a bomb?
These people are wackjobs. On all kinds of pills. Loners that die virgins, hate blacks blah blah blah.
Give him a trial and put a needle in his arm. I didn't do anything, so don't pass lame laws that shouldn't affect me.
Moreover stop sensationalizing what these people do. It is negative reinforcement
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 14:28
I hear you Outlander, but would it have made people feel better if dude used a knife or a bomb?
These people are wackjobs. On all kinds of pills. Loners that die virgins, hate blacks blah blah blah.
Give him a trial and put a needle in his arm. I didn't do anything, so don't pass lame laws that shouldn't affect me.
Moreover stop sensationalizing what these people do. It is negative reinforcement
I am of the opinion that their names should never be used, and instead replaced with the term, "Cross-eyed Slobbering Psychopath".
"In other news, another Cross-eyed Slobbering Psychopath has gone on a rampage."
But then, today, the Cross-eyed Slobbering Psychopaths Association would be lawyering up over micro-aggressions...
Don't dwell on the early reports ... most of the time they're wrong. Wait a day before the final injury count is settled. Wait a few more days for all other reports to be confirmed.
OH COME ON...
Just as ammo prices were coming back to normal...
No kidding, I was finally seeing quality 9mm hitting $219/case shipped on a regular basis.
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 14:41
Don't dwell on the early reports ... most of the time they're wrong. Wait a day before the final injury count is settled. Wait a few more days for all other reports to be confirmed.
Agreed. Death count has gone from 10 to 15 now it's at 7.
Prayers to those affected.
I find people using other people's actions as justification in marginalizing my rights to be not just microagressive but macro aggressive.
I find people using other people's actions as justification in marginalizing my rights to be not just microagressive but macro aggressive.
Look how bitter and reactionary y'all have become. Dead not even cold yet and already debating gun politics. Firearms community as a whole needs to reevaluate it's priorities. Bunch of college kids are dead and ammo prices are the center of discussion.
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 14:49
Look how bitter and reactionary y'all have become. Dead not even cold yet and already debating gun politics. Firearms community as a whole needs to reevaluate it's priorities. Bunch of college kids are dead and ammo prices are the center of discussion.
You must be the same type of person that says "We are better than liberals. We should not use attack ads."
They are chipping away at your God given rights and you are worried about offending people. The gloves are off, foxtrot.
It's unfortunate for those killed, but I don't give a ****.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 14:52
You must be the same type of person that says "We are better than liberals. We should not use attack ads."
They are chipping away at your God given rights and you are worried about offending people. The gloves are off, foxtrot.
It's unfortunate for those killed, but I don't give a ****.
Zero ****s given here.
Every time some shitbird goes and does something stupid, and *I* get to pay the price.
Naw, son.
Look how bitter and reactionary y'all have become. Dead not even cold yet and already debating gun politics. Firearms community as a whole needs to reevaluate it's priorities. Bunch of college kids are dead and ammo prices are the center of discussion.
Stimulus Response. They are already blaming guns and we have to defend what we have.
In a more civilized world, we would accept tragedy for what it is, grieve, and be better people because of it.
I feel poorly for them, I do. But, they are dead. I, we, are alive and don't deserve to be held accountable for something we didn't do.
They say "Don't waste a crisis", not me. We just have to be prepared for the myopic action they take that will affect you and me.
Because simple sorrow is no longer a privilege.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 14:55
Straight the **** up - camel's back is broken.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-01-15, 15:12
Look how bitter and reactionary y'all have become. Dead not even cold yet and already debating gun politics. Firearms community as a whole needs to reevaluate it's priorities. Bunch of college kids are dead and ammo prices are the center of discussion.
The VPC is already on the attack:
“Another horrifying act of gun violence in America. While we don’t know the facts yet, we know all too well the devastating result: a shooter who was able inflict horrific lethal violence because of our nation’s unique inability to address our ongoing gun crisis. Lives are lost, families are devastated, and communities are scarred, yet for America’s firearms industry and gun lobby it’s business as usual. Until those who support a sane national gun policy make their voices heard, such horrific events will continue to define our country.”
It is horrible that we have to go on the defensive before the families are notified, but we weren't the ones to started this quick response. Progressives, convinced that their misrepresentation of facts was correct and exasperated that people would look at their failed solutions and balk when asked for more stupidity, have decided to bum-rush the issue by instantly calling for more restrictions- usually on inanimate objects- as if that is the problem.
We have a society that doesn't value life but does value celebrity- the less based on achievement the better. That is where these kooks get the ability to hide in our midsts with out being seen as outliers.
These families lost their loved ones because Progressives decided to go after metal boxes and bayonet lugs rather than realize that their push for a valueless society that scoffs at the value of human life is the true cause. But that it too difficult to put into a law, and would force them to realize the dehumanizing aspects of their agenda. Throw in the collectivist mentality that security is a public not a private right and you get to where we are. FUBAR'd.
What are the current odds on the following?
Gun legally acquired/not a prohibited person
Known mental health issues
Warning signs ignored
Ineffective laws proposed
Libs forget Oregon already has universal background checks
SilverBullet432
10-01-15, 15:27
:( man. Sad news to hear.
Appears to be the killer's online chat room activity:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/12083825_1654685394818790_1573279008_n.jpg (http://s415.photobucket.com/user/wrc376/media/12083825_1654685394818790_1573279008_n.jpg.html)
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 15:38
I'd like to know the correlation between virginity and mass-shootings...
...just sayin'.
Appears to be the killer's online chat room activity:
ColtSeavers
10-01-15, 15:39
13 dead, shooter as well according to latest reports, though the numbers have changed a few times now.
Moose-Knuckle
10-01-15, 15:43
How long before claims of a false flag op?
Probably right after the call to disarm We the People . . .
SilverBullet432
10-01-15, 15:54
Shooter dead, 20 year old male..
There seems to be a very apparent link between millennials and violent anti-social behavior. Not to mention the link between "gun-free zones" and mass killings, but that is something we all understand here.
It's a sad day for that community. Prayers for the students and their families.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 16:00
Fixed it for ya, homie.
Shooter identified as a 20 year old virgin male.
Fox reported that he told people to stand and state their religion.
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 16:22
Fox reported that he told people to stand and state their religion.
Yes. And interestingly enough, one of the heroes aboard the French Train a while back is from...
...Rosenberg, Oregon.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-marines-foiledterror-attack-on-french-train-2015-8
FlyingHunter
10-01-15, 16:30
Prayers to the families of the victims.
Something ain't right here... Seems to be total radio silence. Few tweets from students, Few FP posts. Shooter's identity not released. Shooter asking what religion they are. Bomb sniffing dogs everywhere. They gave us Adam Lanza's name nearly before the shooting happened. Some students saying they didn't even hear gun shots?
Something smells funny.
I have a feeling this was a muzzy lone gunman terorist but they do not want to admit it.
This Beta Uprising shit is making my head hurt. Callous, ****ed up individuals indeed.
Who the hell still uses chatrooms?
PatrioticDisorder
10-01-15, 16:43
Something ain't right here... Seems to be total radio silence. Few tweets from students, Few FP posts. Shooter's identity not released. Shooter asking what religion they are. Bomb sniffing dogs everywhere. They gave us Adam Lanza's name nearly before the shooting happened. Some students saying they didn't even hear gun shots?
Something smells funny.
I have a feeling this was a muzzy lone gunman terorist but they do not want to admit it.
Well, the fact they haven't released his name and we've heard he was asking victims their religion makes it pretty damned obvious to me what's going on.... In a gun free zone of course...
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 16:49
Who the hell still uses chatrooms?
AOL called, and wants their chat rooms back.
Who the hell still uses chatrooms?
It's not a chatroom. It's a message board sort of like m4c, but allows posting without an account, hence 99% of posts are by "anonymous".
Obama is set to speak, soon.
I don't think virginity is the biggest issue but maturity.
The internet gives random people a voice. Remember Taxi Driver?
If you saw it pre-internet boom, you know off the bat, dude is a froot loop. Misguided and awkward.
I don't think getting these guys laid would change anything.
Because now they shoot people up and have to commit suicide usually or get zapped by the police.
If they survive, it'll be a big regret and with age (especially in prison) they'll see it was a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
It didn't make their lives better, or fuller. It didn't give them a voice aside from "just another wacko".
Getting between a girls legs won't solve your problem. You catch something Ajax won't cure or now, congrats, you're a baby daddy. Weee.
No..just pick up and keep going.
Moose-Knuckle
10-01-15, 17:09
Yes. And interestingly enough, one of the heroes aboard the French Train a while back is from...
...Rosenberg, Oregon.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-marines-foiledterror-attack-on-french-train-2015-8
Things that make you go hmmmm . . .
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 17:15
Fox reported that he told people to stand and state their religion.
Eerily similar to the reports of Columbine, when those two supposedly told all the "jocks" to stand up.
Obama is set to speak, soon.
Not even going to make myself angry by listening to his buffoonery.
"Blah blah blah yet another case of senseless violence blah blah blah the GOP is responsible for this for not allowing common sense laws to be passed blah blah blah assault weapons and high capacity clips should be banned blah blah blah I support the 2nd Amendment except for the 'right to keep and bear arms' part..."
So on to the TTPs and lessons learned...
Apparently he managed to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time. Some were wondering how he accomplished that.
Someone in the 4chan thread advised him to tell everyone he was taking hostages and to pack into a corner. Then shoot them all. That seems to make sense given the account of one shot followed by a whole lot about ten seconds later. The first shot could have been a "warning"/"may i have your attention" shot, followed by the instructions to get into the corner.
We here at m4c think a lot about TTPs. It's hard to get into the mind of a psychopath to figure out possible ways they might act. But if this is proven to be how it went down, what's the proper response? Teach our kids to rush anyone with a weapon, even if that person says he's only taking hostages or only wants your wallet or something?
Moose-Knuckle
10-01-15, 17:23
Barry is LIVE on the matter . . .
Can't wait to read his talking points on the 2nd.
Barry is LIVE on the matter . . .
Can't wait to read his talking points on the 2nd.
He's making me want to puke......
Obama is speaking now, about........you guessed it, gun violence and the need for "common sense" gun laws. Don't you dare let this tragedy go to waste before the bodies are cold....****in asshole.
devildogljb
10-01-15, 17:26
And he just went where i thought he would. I swear i seen a picture of the spent shell casings on fox news earlier and i swear it was a pistol caliber but i cant find the it any wear any one else see the same thing ?
Can someone make notes on what he's saying? I don't have tv access at the moment.
titsonritz
10-01-15, 17:30
Yeah spouting his gun control BS. Typical let's screw the hundreds on millions of people who didn't do a mass shooting today.
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 17:30
And he just went where i thought he would. I swear i seen a picture of the spent shell casings on fox news earlier and i swear it was a pistol caliber but i cant find the it any wear any one else see the same thing ?
Wouldn't matter. Whether it's a .22 LR Derringer or a M249 SAW, it's always an "AR-15 assault rifle".
Obama is speaking now, about........you guessed it, gun violence and the need for "common sense" gun laws. Don't you dare let this tragedy go to waste before the bodies are cold....****in asshole.
Oby couldn't wait to get to the 2nd and gun control.. Buy ammo and what you need now guys. I really can't stand that petulant little man.
Barry just said we should look to the UK and the Aussies....for gun policy that works...he wants action...
Can someone make notes on what he's saying? I don't have tv access at the moment.
He's spewing a bunch of lies and bullshit. It is pushing my blood pressure through the roof.
He claims that most gun owners want common sense gun laws, that OUR response as "gun owners" that less gun laws is routine and we know it's false.
He said that states with the most strict gun laws have the fewest gun deaths. And the states with the most lax laws have the most fun deaths.
"Seat belt laws save lives- the notion that gun violence is different; that our freedom and our constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon she. Their are law abiding gun owners across the country who hunt and prove t their families under such regulation- doesn't make sense."
Blah blah blah.
He is a piece of shit.
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 17:33
Barry just said we should look to the UK and the Aussies....for gun policy that works...he wants action...
He can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.
titsonritz
10-01-15, 17:33
Ripping on the NRA.
More common sense.
Its just gross listening to him flap his lip.
And he just went where i thought he would. I swear i seen a picture of the spent shell casings on fox news earlier and i swear it was a pistol caliber but i cant find the it any wear any one else see the same thing ?
Yes, it was underneath a yellow #2 evidence tag.
Obama says that we have laws to wear seatbelts because it saves lives, and thus we need more gun laws. Want Americans to convince their lawmakers to change the laws in support of stricter gun laws. He vows to bring up this point every time there is a mass shooting.
SomeOtherGuy
10-01-15, 17:37
According to this Local report: The gunman who opened fire at Umpqua Community College in Oregon asked victims to state their religion before opening fire, according to multiple reports. An 18-year-old student told the News-Review newspaper that the gunman, after shooting her teacher in the head through a window, told people to get on the ground. He then told people to stand up and state their religion before opening fire. Twitter user @BodhiLooney, who said her grandma was at the school, said the shooter asked people if they were Christian. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head,” she wrote. “If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs.”
Found at: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting-pre-planned-act-of-jihad-warning-posted-yesterday/
Have to see if this is confirmed by other witnesses. Doesn't indicate whether the shooter might be of another religion or just against religion generally, and Christians in particular. I could imagine either one.
Sounds like we need some "Muslim Free Zones."
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 17:42
If this is Islamic-terror related, it'll get hushed up pretty quickly. There will be a week of the left pointing out every time a professed Christian shot up some place, and then it'll disappear. The only time they'll keep harping on this is if the guy who did it was mentally ill, far right wing, or both.
Common sense gun laws are buy what you can afford and if you commit murder then you get charged with murder.
The UK and Australia really aren't good examples because they are subjects. We are, like it or not, citizens. We have rights.
The UK and AUS don't have it down as a right. We do.
20 dead college kids, God rest their souls, shouldn't affect millions of other people.
This happened in Oregon. Not where I live.
If we want low blows, I could ask Barry why he doesn't skin the asses of the NAACP or Jesse Jackson whenever a black person commits a crime. The NAACP spent decades forwarding civil rights and ending Jim Crow that, sad to say, did curb a lot of black crime. Or alleged black crime. But those people, black or not, had rights which as citizens are to be respected and protected.
So...think about that when the NRA gets brought up as a "reason" for these shootings and gun violence.
They are both civil rights organizations. So using their logic we should do a gun ban AND redo Jim Crow.
You know....for safety and freedom. Sounds a little different when you turn it around.
Or...we could blame the criminal and get on with our lives.
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 17:45
Common sense gun laws are buy what you can afford and if you commit murder then you get charged with murder.
And you're a racist for saying that because...you're a racist-y racist who says stuff like that because you love racism!
That's pretty much the argument against common sense.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 17:49
Typical, opportunistic, agenda-driven scum.
My "Agenda", and only "Agenda" is to be left the **** alone.
And the Left goes on and on and on and on and on and on, it never stops, it never quits, it politicizes everything, and it goes on and on and and on and on.
Sweet Jesus, how is this not self-evident by now?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/01/192cbe2f9374e54b0d5e7a987cfec699.jpg
God I hate that man...
titsonritz
10-01-15, 17:53
Meanwhile, Zero has zero to say about BLM targeting LEOs.
20 dead college kids, God rest their souls, shouldn't affect millions of other people.
While we are at it, still not even half way to the worst school mass murder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
And that one happened in 1927, before gun control of any kind, yet no guns involved except the one he used to detonate explosives.
ForTehNguyen
10-01-15, 18:07
If this is Islamic-terror related, it'll get hushed up pretty quickly. There will be a week of the left pointing out every time a professed Christian shot up some place, and then it'll disappear. The only time they'll keep harping on this is if the guy who did it was mentally ill, far right wing, or both.
radical islam and progressives/marxists have a common enemy - western culture, individual rights, etc. Thats why the media tries so hard to bend over backwards and apologize for muslims. Just look at the difference in coverage in the Charlie Hebdo France attack vs the Garland Pam Geller attack. They had the gall to blame Pam Geller and said she "asked for it" I knew there was something fishy when its been this long and they havent IDed the shooter. It will not fit the narrative
Cincinnatus
10-01-15, 18:24
Not confirmed, but if this is him, doubtful that Islam had anything to do with it.
http://libertynews.com/2015/10/breaking-is-this-the-oregon-shooter-4chan-forum-says-his-name-is-toby-reynolds/
He's spewing a bunch of lies and bullshit. It is pushing my blood pressure through the roof.
Blah blah blah.
He is a piece of shit.
An opportunistic, narcissistic, petulant piece of shit, at that.
Do you think Bill Clinton taught Barry how to stick his bottom lip out like that, or what?
What really boils my egg is that these idiot nannies create the "gun free slobbering cretin hunting grounds" then want to strip us of our rights when some special snowflake gets butthurt about something and decides to take their disappointment out on the rest of society.
If one of my friends/family was hurt/killed in a gun free zone, I'd sue the pants off of whoever established that zone for depriving them of their right of self-defense.
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 18:42
Nominate me for Criminal Profilier of the Year.
Dude is VirginTOW to the absolute maximum.
Not confirmed, but if this is him, doubtful that Islam had anything to do with it.
http://libertynews.com/2015/10/breaking-is-this-the-oregon-shooter-4chan-forum-says-his-name-is-toby-reynolds/
Let me explain why mass shooters are virgins:
Because when I was 18-34, I only gave a shit about one thing, hot chicks, talking to hot chicks, hanging with hot chicks, debating on which hot chicks to have slumber parties with, trying not to need Pennicillin for having slumber parties with hot chicks, trying to one-up my buddies' hot chicks, etc, etc, etc.
As for my buddies? I don't feel like typing that again, so in short:
Hot chicks
Broing-around
Beer
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 18:46
If the victim had a valid firearms license/permit, and had, in writing, a refusal on the part of the University to allow exercise of Constititionally-afforded rights, you would have a goddamned fantastic case.
You folks want to win the war? That's how you do it.
If you are in College, or have a loved one who is in College, write the school a letter asking for permission to carry on campus. They will, of course, tell you, not just no, but, "hell no."
You now have a smoking gun, and a solid basis for a case should anything happen.
An opportunistic, narcissistic, petulant piece of shit, at that.
Do you think Bill Clinton taught Barry how to stick his bottom lip out like that, or what?
What really boils my egg is that these idiot nannies create the "gun free slobbering cretin hunting grounds" then want to strip us of our rights when some special snowflake gets butthurt about something and decides to take their disappointment out on the rest of society.
If one of my friends/family was hurt/killed in a gun free zone, I'd sue the pants off of whoever established that zone for depriving them of their right of self-defense.
As a minimum, the school should be sued for contributory negligence by the victims' loved ones.
titsonritz
10-01-15, 18:47
Check out all politicians making comments, note the ones sending their condolences to victims families vs. those not sending their condolences to victims families just spouting gun-control. Eric Holder, three posts back to back and not a single condolence.
http://news.yahoo.com/shooting-umpqua-community-college-oregon-182211198.html#
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-01-15, 18:51
When is the NRA going to get off their asses and go on the offensive? RUn the 80/20 on gun deaths and you come back with suicides and gang violence. Mass shooters are like unicorns. There are more Bigfoot incidents than AS each year.
Push the ball back into their laps. Go after the big city mayors and their endemic and tragic violence that takes more lives today and everyday than AS. The other half is suicides. The common theme is a lack of respect for your own life and for others. We have a violent culture and that is why we have so many deaths. If guns caused these deaths, there wouldn't be anyone alive. We have more guns than people.
It's like the problem with the Pope. Yes, poverty is a problem but the answer isn't becoming more like the countries that these people are fleeing.
Black Lives Matter? It seems only Some Black Deaths Matter.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Crazy people do crazy things and we blame inanimate objects. The blood of these kids is on the Progressives hands who instead of doing the right thing, they do the easy thing.
Stop the culture of death and you stop the killing.
Banning guns and magazines is like the muslims trying to stop impure thoughts by putting their women in Burqas. How about teaching people to control their base urges.
That is hard. There is no govt program for it that you can charge for and keep an entire class of people dependant on the govt, so that won't be what Progressives push for.
https://voat.co/v/news/comments/556506
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 18:58
What a shitshow.
https://voat.co/v/news/comments/556506
If the victim had a valid firearms license/permit...
And ignored the bullshit laws and campus rules they'd have had a chance.
I'd just like to post:
http://i.imgur.com/vD6XPcF.png
http://i.imgur.com/J427T62.png
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 19:03
Get outta here with those facts, man. Can't use the truth for propaganda!
I'd just like to post:
http://i.imgur.com/vD6XPcF.png
http://i.imgur.com/J427T62.png
What's the data source? I would love to share
I'd just like to post:
http://i.imgur.com/J427T62.png
It looks like the local LEOs have suppressors on SBRs. Maybe he's a SWAT member.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/00/2CFC5B6100000578-3256633-Police_were_checking_students_backpacks_as_a_precaution_before_b-a-26_1443743280557.jpg
source:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3256633/Shooter-Oregon-community-college-kills-15-people-campus.html
What's the data source? I would love to share
Oops, forgot to include sources for that one.
Guns per 100 people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/
Note, this is NOT gun ownership rate. This is total number of guns vs total number of people. The total ownership % for, say, the US is something around 50-60%, not 89%.
Intentional homicide rate: https://stats.unodc.org/webcontent/dcm.uploads/downloads/Homicide_counts_and_rates_2000_2013.xlsx
Not every country has an up-to-date rate, so the most recent year on record is used. I actually used the 2012 spreadsheet, so I'll need to update it eventually with 2013 numbers. But as teh Washington Post gun ownership link was created in 2012, the numbers depict the same year so it's more accurate. Interestingly, the WP data is derived in part from the same UNODC study.
Also remember, this chart is intentional homicide/murder rate, not "gun-related murder".
.45ACP?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/00/2CFD2DA400000578-3256633-A_bullet_casing_is_marked_at_the_scene_of_the_massacre_in_Rosebu-a-11_1443743280204.jpg
source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3256633/Shooter-Oregon-community-college-kills-15-people-campus.html
Multicam guys aren't rocking suppressors.
http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/10/1/53c7ae90-80a3-45ec-857c-69bc0814860f.jpg
http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/10/1/16fac847-fbfa-4d4b-8ad9-f86debf41ac7.jpg
Leaveammoforme
10-01-15, 19:23
All LEO's with heads down. Hooded guy with what appears to be a bandana on his face in left of frame. Hippy boy in purple has noticed him.
Real pic?
ETA-
Reference to 7.62natos first pic
Multicam guys aren't rocking suppressors.
http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/10/1/53c7ae90-80a3-45ec-857c-69bc0814860f.jpg
http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/10/1/16fac847-fbfa-4d4b-8ad9-f86debf41ac7.jpg
All those eotechs... hope they're still zero'd.
Good share, thanks.
Oops, forgot to include sources for that one.
Guns per 100 people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/
Note, this is NOT gun ownership rate. This is total number of guns vs total number of people. The total ownership % for, say, the US is something around 50-60%, not 89%.
Intentional homicide rate: https://stats.unodc.org/webcontent/dcm.uploads/downloads/Homicide_counts_and_rates_2000_2013.xlsx
Not every country has an up-to-date rate, so the most recent year on record is used. I actually used the 2012 spreadsheet, so I'll need to update it eventually with 2013 numbers. But as teh Washington Post gun ownership link was created in 2012, the numbers depict the same year so it's more accurate. Interestingly, the WP data is derived in part from the same UNODC study.
.45ACP?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/00/2CFD2DA400000578-3256633-A_bullet_casing_is_marked_at_the_scene_of_the_massacre_in_Rosebu-a-11_1443743280204.jpg
source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3256633/Shooter-Oregon-community-college-kills-15-people-campus.html
I'm guessing if they took him down outside this may be a LOE case
titsonritz
10-01-15, 19:30
Bill O'Reilly is tearing Obama a well deserved new one. Big time calling him on his lies.
Someone with photoshop could measure the case opening against the markings on the yellow tag.
.45ACP?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/00/2CFD2DA400000578-3256633-A_bullet_casing_is_marked_at_the_scene_of_the_massacre_in_Rosebu-a-11_1443743280204.jpg
source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3256633/Shooter-Oregon-community-college-kills-15-people-campus.html
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 19:36
Someone with photoshop could measure the case opening against the markings on the yellow tag.
Is it really that serious?
Someone with photoshop could measure the case opening against the markings on the yellow tag.
Is there anything higher resolution?
I don't know if it's going to be possible, since the difference between 9mm and .45ACP is 2.4mm.
That is not the picture or name that I have seen, regarding the identity of the POS.
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 19:37
Is this the shooter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMLEkMlfWUg
Disclaimer: This individual may or may not be the shooter. No claims are made that this individual is the shooter.
Original reports from Reddit/4chan have the shooter as a transgender dude/girl/thing.
Eurodriver
10-01-15, 19:38
Not confirmed, but if this is him, doubtful that Islam had anything to do with it.
http://libertynews.com/2015/10/breaking-is-this-the-oregon-shooter-4chan-forum-says-his-name-is-toby-reynolds/
http://libertynews.com/2015/10/heres-the-bizarre-and-extremely-creepy-video-posted-by-man-many-believe-to-be-campus-shooter-video/
CNN female anchor stressed that the school is a GUN FREE zone.
That continues to work doesn't it.....
Is it really that serious?
Not to me but someone will probably try it.
Sexually frustrated fits the psych profile of many of these dysfunctional a-holes, whether it's a muzzie with a bomb strapped to his chest or garden variety homegrown mass shooter.
Someone with photoshop could measure the case opening against the markings on the yellow tag.
Is it really that serious?
Is there anything higher resolution?
I don't know if it's going to be possible, since the difference between 9mm and .45ACP is 1.4mm.
Well FWIW it looks like exactly 1cm, so probably .40S&W.
http://i.imgur.com/o1uSdyq.jpg
The blue line on the left is 1cm according to the ruler, and I copy-pasted it and moved it to the case mouth and it matched up exactly. Due to perspective and because there is such a small difference between 9mm and .40 and between .40 and .45ACP, I could be completely wrong.
Inkslinger
10-01-15, 19:48
http://libertynews.com/2015/10/heres-the-bizarre-and-extremely-creepy-video-posted-by-man-many-believe-to-be-campus-shooter-video/
If that isn't the shooter in this tragedy, there's a pretty good chance he will be the shooter in the next one.
Let no tragedy go to waste.
http://i.imgur.com/ZddttHe.png
titsonritz
10-01-15, 19:58
Shooter named Chris Harper Mercer, 26
http://www.ibtimes.com/who-chris-harper-mercer-oregons-alleged-umqua-community-college-shooter-identified-2123675
The second link isn't working for me. Is anyone else having this problem?
Oops, forgot to include sources for that one.
Guns per 100 people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/
Note, this is NOT gun ownership rate. This is total number of guns vs total number of people. The total ownership % for, say, the US is something around 50-60%, not 89%.
Intentional homicide rate: https://stats.unodc.org/webcontent/dcm.uploads/downloads/Homicide_counts_and_rates_2000_2013.xlsx
Not every country has an up-to-date rate, so the most recent year on record is used. I actually used the 2012 spreadsheet, so I'll need to update it eventually with 2013 numbers. But as teh Washington Post gun ownership link was created in 2012, the numbers depict the same year so it's more accurate. Interestingly, the WP data is derived in part from the same UNODC study.
Also remember, this chart is intentional homicide/murder rate, not "gun-related murder".
devildogljb
10-01-15, 20:09
I just heard that also i was trying to google the name as soon as i heard trying to find any type of info on this guy. Im sure O Riley seen the same links that was posted here earlier about this "eggman" guy but kept saying he didn't want to say it just in case it was a hoax and by the looks of it, it was.
SilverBullet432
10-01-15, 20:10
Multiple pics of multiple people....
The second link isn't working for me. Is anyone else having this problem?
It should download a .xlsx (Microsoft excel) file. Works for me.
This should also work: http://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf which is found here: http://www.unodc.org/gsh/
... But it's in a less readable file (the relevant data is half way through a massive .pdf and it's sideways x.x)
SilverBullet432
10-01-15, 20:12
Guy on fox news just PUT OBAMA IN HIS PLACE!!
Outlander Systems
10-01-15, 20:13
Lest we be reminded...
http://youtu.be/0nM0asnCXD0
Let no tragedy go to waste.
http://i.imgur.com/ZddttHe.png
We here at m4c think a lot about TTPs. It's hard to get into the mind of a psychopath to figure out possible ways they might act. But if this is proven to be how it went down, what's the proper response? Teach our kids to rush anyone with a weapon, even if that person says he's only taking hostages or only wants your wallet or something?
9-11 was just a "hijacking" and if everyone cooperates, everything will be fine.
Call it profiling, but if there is even a hint of Allah Snackbar stuff, better assume you are about to be executed.
9-11 was just a "hijacking" and if everyone cooperates, everything will be fine.
Call it profiling, but if there is even a hint of Allah Snackbar stuff, better assume you are about to be executed.
But this guy seems to be a white dude with no hint of radical Islam involved. Do we now assume you are about to be executed no matter what happens, even though a lot of armed robberies don't actually end with death?
Leaveammoforme
10-01-15, 20:33
But this guy seems to be a white dude with no hint of radical Islam involved. Do we now assume you are about to be executed no matter what happens, even though a lot of armed robberies don't actually end with death?
Um, if you're out and about and someone threatens your well being.....You smash them, period.
But this guy seems to be a white dude with no hint of radical Islam involved. Do we now assume you are about to be executed no matter what happens, even though a lot of armed robberies don't actually end with death?
Tough call. There is always the "can't determine" variable.
Take Columbine, they were definitely killing people. But at the same time, they let some people go. That's not a well known fact. Sometimes talking works, sometimes nothing is going to work. With the Aurora shooter, I don't think anything anyone said would have changed anything.
With religious terrorists, you probably should assume the worst.
But with crazy people, there is no bigger wild card. The hard part is determining exactly what you are dealing with in the shortest amount of time afforded to you.
I don't think there is a single set of reliable rules that will always improve your odds. The only constant seems to be "anything you do can get you killed, including nothing."
Um, if you're out and about and someone threatens your well being.....You smash them, period.
He was asking what should be taught to children in such situations. Not all of them are qualified to "smash" their attacker. Some of them will have a better chance hiding next to the toilets. I wouldn't want the freshmen members of the chess club to sacrifice themselves in a human wave attack if they aren't capable of bringing down the shooter.
But if there were some physically capable individuals with ability and opportunity to bring it to an end, then that is probably the best "Oh Shit" plan.
How about resisting the urge to post pictures and videos of folks until there is a confirmed ID and Picture. It really isn't a good idea, nor is it fair to innocent people, to have their mugs associated with this stuff.
Mods - It can't be a good idea for the site to have people who potentially aren't involved, pictured in this thread.
How about resisting the urge to post pictures and videos of folks until there is a confirmed ID and Picture. It really isn't a good idea, nor is it fair to innocent people, to have their mugs associated with this stuff.
Mods - It can't be a good idea for the site to have people who potentially aren't involved, pictured in this thread.
Most of these "possible ID's" are coming from news sources. Doesn't mean they are actually the guy, but M4C isn't the one coming up with these pics and names.
Most of these "possible ID's" are coming from news sources. Doesn't mean they are actually the guy, but M4C isn't the one coming up with these pics and names.
That explains why it felt like a media feeding frenzy on here. Carry on.....I suppose it isn't any more harmful than what the freaking press is doing.
Stay vigilant gents......The grabbers are coming but at least we control both the House and the Senate now.
MountainRaven
10-01-15, 21:02
Common sense gun laws are buy what you can afford and if you commit murder then you get charged with murder.
The UK and Australia really aren't good examples because they are subjects. We are, like it or not, citizens. We have rights.
The UK and AUS don't have it down as a right. We do.
20 dead college kids, God rest their souls, shouldn't affect millions of other people.
This happened in Oregon. Not where I live.
If we want low blows, I could ask Barry why he doesn't skin the asses of the NAACP or Jesse Jackson whenever a black person commits a crime. The NAACP spent decades forwarding civil rights and ending Jim Crow that, sad to say, did curb a lot of black crime. Or alleged black crime. But those people, black or not, had rights which as citizens are to be respected and protected.
So...think about that when the NRA gets brought up as a "reason" for these shootings and gun violence.
They are both civil rights organizations. So using their logic we should do a gun ban AND redo Jim Crow.
You know....for safety and freedom. Sounds a little different when you turn it around.
Or...we could blame the criminal and get on with our lives.
Bolded part isn't true.
British subjects (to include Aussies) have the right to keep and bear arms.
Except as regulated by Parliament (which is covered by the clause of what would be their Constitutions that includes the RKBA).
Just saying: The only thing that makes our RKBA different than theirs is that ours is not subject to Congressional regulation.
More info.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQRkWifWcAA_CJj.png
devildogljb
10-01-15, 21:11
Nice find what i find more interesting is the "Doesnt Like Organized Religion" Group he is a part of or likes. Maybe makes sense why he asked peoples religions
More info.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQRkWifWcAA_CJj.png
Hmm. I won't argue technicality but every commonwealth person I ever spoke to who was a shooter stated outright that it was a privilege at the pleasure of tge government. This includes Canada.
That essentially they can rewrite the laws on a whim or whatever. Like Canadas Swiss PE90 fiasco which took like 3 years to sort out.
Sort of like BATFE making 'decisions' and 'regulations' from a cubicle. I. E. The barrel ban, 5.45 ban, etc blah.
Whatever, we have a stronger precedent that this is an individual right and no gun bans will matter in the big picture.
A guy snaps because he can't get laid or whatever. Sorry about that but....there are plenty of gun related dope and gang murders in Chicago and so forth. Nobody cares.
Someone shoots up a 'gun free zone' and the 'emergency legislation' can't start fast enough.
titsonritz
10-01-15, 21:18
How about resisting the urge to post pictures and videos of folks until there is a confirmed ID and Picture. It really isn't a good idea, nor is it fair to innocent people, to have their mugs associated with this stuff.
Mods - It can't be a good idea for the site to have people who potentially aren't involved, pictured in this thread.
That explains why it felt like a media feeding frenzy on here. Carry on.....I suppose it isn't any more harmful than what the freaking press is doing.
Stay vigilant gents......The grabbers are coming but at least we control both the House and the Senate now.
Law enforcement officials have announced the alleged shooters name as Chris Harper Mercer, 26
Of course he is a conservative republican. That looks like the most made up internet profile I have ever seen. Maybe we should get congress to put more regulation on millennials.
Phillygunguy
10-01-15, 21:37
Saw this on David Webb FB page not sure how they confirmed but.
http://gotnews.com/breaking-confirmed-chris-harper-mercer-is-26-year-old-muslim-killer-uccshooting/
titsonritz
10-01-15, 21:41
Of course he is a conservative republican. That looks like the most made up internet profile I have ever seen. Maybe we should get congress to put more regulation on millennials.
It says his location is LA, so what he decided to drive up I-5 and do some killing?
Archives of his kickass torrent account:
Blog:https://archive.is/IwJVp
Sandy Hook documentary: https://archive.is/cLVfw
Virginia Tech documentary: https://archive.is/FFIuA
Columbine and Charles Manson: https://archive.is/qIckk
post with ironcross45 email: https://archive.is/EOIFR
Of course he is a conservative republican. That looks like the most made up internet profile I have ever seen. Maybe we should get congress to put more regulation on millennials.
With that username, I really hope it's made up.
His recent torrent uploads (note the Sandy Hook documentary):
http://i.imgur.com/q6g30V7.png?1
Not even going to make myself angry by listening to his buffoonery.
"Blah blah blah yet another case of senseless violence blah blah blah the GOP is responsible for this for not allowing common sense laws to be passed blah blah blah assault weapons and high capacity clips should be banned blah blah blah I support the 2nd Amendment except for the 'right to keep and bear arms' part..."
You basically repeated his words ... almost word for word ... well close.
I was driving home and I forced myself to listen to brother number 1. Like another member posted earlier, he made me want to puke. What a liar.
As for the name of the killer, it already came up a couple of times, let's not post or mention the animal's name anymore. Like the Sheriff said, let's not give him or any future copy cat piece of trash the satisfaction. Don't post his picture, he's nothing now but a piece of garbage.
If I see his name or picture after this post, I will delete them.
devildogljb
10-01-15, 21:47
What gets me is, there were vets who had CCW's on property from my understanding a building next door. One vet out straight out on live tv and says he was carrying on a no weapons property "they must of changed it over night but its a public property" that had me laughing for awhile guy has some balls and they were stopped from going out and trying to help. WTF who knows they or he could of saved lives.
The 26-year-old gunman showed a disdain for organized religion online, then allegedly asked victims about their faith before shooting them.
Police have identified the gunman who killed 10 people at an Umpqua Community College in Oregon on Thursday as ****.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/01/umpqua-gunman-id-d-as-chris-harper-mercer.html
Leaveammoforme
10-01-15, 22:11
There was a link here (guess it got deleted due to name) to a BLM support page. This piece of garbage left a statement in the comment section via a FB account.
I fumbled my phone and the page refreshed. Middle and last name had been changed in that short amount of time.
How long before claims of a false flag op?
I heard it immediately.
CNN female anchor stressed that the school is a GUN FREE zone.
Didn't be see the signs?!?
Let no tragedy go to waste.
http://i.imgur.com/ZddttHe.png
Lest we be reminded...
http://youtu.be/0nM0asnCXD0
What an ass!
You basically repeated his words ... almost word for word ... well close.
I was driving home and I forced myself to listen to brother number 1. Like another member posted earlier, he made me want to puke. What a liar.
As for the name of the killer, it already came up a couple of times, let's not post or mention the animal's name anymore. Like the Sheriff said, let's not give him or any future copy cat piece of trash the satisfaction. Don't post his picture, he's nothing now but a piece of garbage.
If I see his name or picture after this post, I will delete them.
I agree.
In the final few months of the current administration, how much agenda can actually get pushed through? Can Obama accomplish any significant policy change before he leaves office? These are serious questions, because I am unsure of the time frame for the whole process re: CIC demands policy change, bills being introduced and then voting the bills into law. We are hearing the same old rhetoric and emotion baiting tactics to stir up public outcry, but I wonder what is really happening behind the scenes in BATFE and Congress to enact some permanent changes that will really restrict RKBA. For example, is this event going to be the greenlight to put 41p on the fast track to approval? What kind of executive orders will Obama create this time?
BoringGuy45
10-01-15, 22:58
From now on, I say his, and any past and future shooters, will be known by the name PODS (Piece of Dog Shit).
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 00:50
What gets me is, there were vets who had CCW's on property from my understanding a building next door. One vet out straight out on live tv and says he was carrying on a no weapons property "they must of changed it over night but its a public property" that had me laughing for awhile guy has some balls and they were stopped from going out and trying to help. WTF who knows they or he could of saved lives.
I really need some better citing on this. There had to be some vets on campus. That some of them were carrying wouldn't surprise me. That they would let an admin person stop them seems a bit outside what I'd think.
AS like this happen infrequently, but they are not some aberration. They are just a subset of the group of people that commit suicide, often with a gun, but here they decide to take some people first before they whack themselves or die by cop.
Mauser KAR98K
10-02-15, 01:24
From now on, I say his, and any past and future shooters, will be known by the name PODS (Piece of Dog Shit).
I can't seem to find the "Like" button. mods, help please.
On a serious note: prayers to the family.
TOS has a member saying a good friend of theirs rushed the PODS but was hit five times. Brietbart has an interview of a CCW vet that was 200 yards away but was too late. (Can't seem to find it now).
I'm afraid these incidents are going to get more frequent. Just going by reports and posts, this PODS was taking in and research other "mass" shooting incidents and tried to get his infamous street cred for the media. His social life, if the posts and reporting is correct, was zilch, same with PODS in California that shot four, stabbed two and ran over more.
The biggest factor, however, that really concerns me the most: they have all pretty much been Millennials. Forget the psych drugs and their BS manifestos, the Millennial part should be the big elephant in the room.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-15, 02:17
Obama says that we have laws to wear seatbelts because it saves lives, and thus we need more gun laws. Want Americans to convince their lawmakers to change the laws in support of stricter gun laws. He vows to bring up this point every time there is a mass shooting.
When I heard him say that I thought to myself; "Gee I wonder how many more of these they have planned before he leaves office".
And no, I'm not joking.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-15, 02:22
Do we now assume you are about to be executed no matter what happens, even though a lot of armed robberies don't actually end with death?
Here is some light reading for you . . .
Why Surrender Is Never an Option
The first phase of surrender is failing to be armed, trained and committed to fight. We are prepared to surrender when we are unprepared to resist.
The second phase of surrender is failing to be alert. You must see trouble coming in order to have time to respond. The warning may be less than one second but it will be there and it must be recognized and acted upon immediately.
The Third phase of surrender is giving up your weapons.
The last phase of surrender is up to the monsters who have taken control of your life and perhaps the lives of your loved ones. The last phase of surrender is out of your hands.
Surrender during war
During the American Revolution 12,000 Colonists captured by the British died in captivity on prison ships, while only 8,000 died in battle. Had the 12,000 who surrendered continued to fight many would have survived and they could have done great damage to the British and likely shortened the war.
Civil War prisoners were treated so badly that some 50,000 died in captivity. More Americans have been killed by Americans than by any foreign army in any war. Six hundred eighteen thousand Americans died in the Civil War.
As many as 18,000 captured American and Pilipino prisoners died or were murdered at the hands of the Japanese during the six days of the “Bataan Death March.” Had most of these soldiers slipped into the jungle and fought as guerrillas they could have tied up elements of the Japanese Army for months or years and perhaps more of them would have survived the war.
Of the Americans who actually reached Japanese prison camps during the war, nearly 50,000 died in captivity. That is more than 10 percent of all the American military deaths in the entire war in both the Pacific and European theaters combined.
In addition to the 50,000 captured Americans who died in Japanese prison camps an additional 20,000 were murdered before reaching a prison camp. If those 70,000 Americans had continued to fight, they could have provided time for the United States to build and maneuver its forces, perhaps shortening the war and saving even more lives. Some of them would have likely survived the war. If they had all died in battle their fate would have been no worse.
During the early stages of the “Battle of the Bulge” American soldiers were massacred by the German troops who captured them.
During the Vietnam conflict many American Prisoners Of War were tortured daily for years by the Communist North Vietnamese. Many Americans died during the process. Only Officers (Airmen) held in North Vietnam were ever repatriated. Enlisted Americans captured in South Viet Nam were routinely tortured, mutilated and murdered by the Communists. As a combat soldier and knowing my fate should I be captured, I was committed to fighting to the death. I made specific plans to force the enemy to kill me rather than allow myself to be captured.
In recent years, American troops captured by Islamic terrorists groups have virtually all been tortured and murdered in gruesome fashion. If I were fighting in the Middle East, I would make a similar vow and plan to fight to the death. Under no circumstances would I allow myself to be captured by our Islamic enemies.
Death by Government
RJ Rummel, who wrote the book, “Death by Government” states that prior to the 20th Century; 170 million civilians were murdered by their own governments. Historians tell us that during the 20th Century perhaps as many as 200 million civilians were murdered by their own governments.
Some of the Nations where the mass murder of civilians occurred during the 20th Century include Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, The Congo, Uganda, Armenia, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Nigeria, Laos, China, Cuba, Manchuria, Iraq, Iran, Biafra, Rwanda and many others. The slaughter of civilians by governments appears to be as common as not.
Most of these slaughters were only made possible by disarming the victims before killing them. Had these people resisted, their fate would have been no worse and perhaps better. Resistance is much more difficult after the government has already taken the means of resistance away from the people. Planned genocide has been the primary reason for weapon confiscation throughout history.
Jews and others who surrendered to the Nazis were murdered in slave labor camps by the millions. Had all the Jews in Europe resisted when the Nazis started rounding them up they could have made the Nazis pay an enormous price for the holocaust. The fact that Hitler confiscated guns in 1936 made resistance far less feasible.
Had the Jews in Germany resisted, the outcome may have been the same but the world would have learned about the holocaust years earlier and may have intervened. Most people would prefer to die fighting and trying to kill their oppressor, than be taken off to a death camp and starved to death or murdered in a gas chamber.
William Ayers, former leader of the Terrorist organization “The Weather Underground,” and close friend of Barack Obama, told his followers in the Weather Underground, “When we (Communist Revolutionaries) take over the United States, we will have to kill 25 million Americans.” He was referring to those who would never submit to a Communist takeover. Those who would refuse to deny and reject the Constitution would have to be murdered. If this sounds impossible, remember that Genocide by Government was the leading cause of death in the last Century.
Surrendering to Criminals
The “Onion Field Murder” in California was a wake-up call to Law Enforcement Officers everywhere. On March 9, 1963, two LAPD Officers were taken prisoner by two criminals. The Officers submitted to capture and gave up their weapons.
They were driven to an onion field outside of Bakersfield.
One Officer was murdered while the other Officer managed to escape in a hail of gunfire. The surviving Officer suffered a serious psychological case, having been unable to save his partner. As a result of this incident, the LAPD policy became, “You will fight no matter how bad things are.” “You will never ever surrender your weapons or yourself to a criminal.”
Consider the Ogden, Utah record store murders. Read the book if you do not know the story. The manner in which the criminals murdered their young victims cannot be described here. Resistance might have been futile. Compliance was definitely and absolutely futile.
The courts in this country have ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. Why do Law Enforcement Officials always tell civilians not to resist a criminal, while they tell their Officers to always resist and never surrender? Police administrators fear being sued by a civilian victim who gets hurt resisting. Furthermore, the police, like all government agencies derive their power by fostering dependence.
According to Professor John Lott’s study on the relationship between guns and crime, a victim who resists with a firearm is less likely to be hurt or killed than a victim who cooperates with his attacker. His book is titled “More Guns, Less Crime.”
The Doctor and his family in Connecticut complied and cooperated, meeting every demand of the home invasion robbers to whom they had surrendered. The Doctors wife and daughters were tortured, raped, doused with gasoline and burned alive. How did surrender and cooperation work out for them?
In another home invasion robbery, a kindly couple with 9 adopted, “special needs” children, surrendered to the robbers. The victims opened their safe and did not resist in any way. When the robbers where finished ransacking the home and terrifying the children, they shot both parents in the head several times before leaving. How did surrender and complete cooperation work out for them?
Handing over your life by surrendering to someone who is in the process of committing a violent crime against you is a form of suicide. Some survive but many do not. The monster gets to decide for you.
We have heard brutalized victims say, “The robber said that he would not hurt us if we cooperated.” Why would you believe anything that someone who is committing a crime against you says? He will be lying if he speaks. As we say in law enforcement, “If a criminal’s lips are moving while he is speaking, he is lying.” Criminals by definition are dishonest and should never be trusted or believed.
You have no doubt heard friends say, I would not resist a criminal, after all why would he kill me? This is stupid and naive. In law enforcement, we call these people “Victims by Choice” (VBC). There could be a long list of reasons why a criminal would kill you despite your cooperation.
You may be of a different race, thus a different tribe. Only members of his tribe are actually human in his mind. He may feel hatred toward you because you have more than he does. Gratification from being in a position of total power is reason enough for some.
Criminals are sometimes members of a Satanic Cult who worship death such as the “Night Stalker” in California. Eliminating a potential witness is often cited as a reason to kill a victim. Sometimes criminals simply enjoy causing suffering and death. There are people who are in fact, pure evil. I have heard criminals say, “I killed her just to watch her die.”
A victim who begs for mercy can give his attacker a tremendous feeling of power which many criminals seem to enjoy. You cannot expect mercy from someone who does not know what mercy is.
Resist!
We each have a duty to ourselves, our loved ones, our neighbors, our community, our city, our state and our country to resist criminals. Reasoning with a thug who believes that his failures are because of people just like you is not likely to be helpful. Pleading with a terrorist who has been taught from birth that his salvation depends on murdering people like you is a doomed plan. Resist!
Resist! His gun may not be real. After you are tied up it will not matter. His gun may not be loaded. After you are tied up it will not matter. He may not know how to operate his gun. After you are tied up it will not matter. Resist!
Statistically if you run and your assailant shoots at you he will miss. Statistically if you run and he shoots and hits you, you will not die. Bad guys shooting at the police miss 90 percent of the time. The odds are on your side. Better to die fighting in place than to be tied up, doused with gasoline and burned alive. There are things worse than death. Surrender to a criminal or a terrorist and you will learn what they are. Resist!
If you resist with a commitment to win you may well prevail, especially if you are armed and trained. If you lose it is still better to die fighting in place than to be taken prisoner and have your head cut off with a dull knife while your screams gurgle through your own blood as we have witnessed on numerous videos from the Middle East, brought to us by the “Islamic practitioners of peace.”
Some who have refused to surrender.
History is filled with brave people who refused to surrender. Some of these men and woman have won their battles despite what seemed to be insurmountable odds. Others have gone down fighting and avoided being tortured to death. Some fought to the death to help or save others. Many have fought to the death for an idea or a belief.
When General Santa Ana (also the President of Mexico at the time) ordered 180 “Texacans” to surrender the Alamo, Col. Travis answered with “a cannon shot and a rebel yell.” Eventually General Santa Ana was able to build his troop strength to ten thousand. The Mexicans then swarmed the defenders and killed them all.
The battle of the Alamo delayed the Mexican Army long enough for
Sam Huston to build his Texacan Army, which met and defeated the Mexican Army and captured General Santa Ana. General Santa Ana traded Texas for his life and the sacrifices of the Alamo defenders changed history.
Frank Luke was a heroic aviator in WWI. Shot down and wounded he refused to surrender when confronted by a German patrol. He killed 4 German soldiers with his 1911 Pistol before being killed. Luke was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.
When his unit was pinned down by German Machine Guns and all of the Officers and non commissioned officers in his company were killed or wounded, Alvin York never considered surrendering. Instead, he attacked hundreds of German soldiers killing about 25 with his rifle and pistol and then captured 132 others by himself!
Most of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto (Poland) surrendered to the German Army. They were taken off to death camps and murdered. Between 400 and 1,000 Jews refused to surrender and armed with only a few pistols, revolvers and rifles, they held off the German Army for three months before dying in battle.
During the “Battle of the Bulge,” the 101st Airborne was surrounded by the German Army and ordered to surrender. Faced with overwhelming odds, the Commanding Officer of the 101st sent this reply to the Germans. “Nuts.” The Americans refused to surrender and they stopped the German advance. Most of the Americans troops survived.
On Sept 2, 2010, 40 armed criminals took over and robbed a train in India. Some of the robbers had guns, others used knives and clubs. When they began to disrobe an 18 year old girl for the purpose of gang raping her, one of the passengers decided to fight. He was a 35 year old retired Gurkha soldier. He drew his Khukasri Knife and attacked the 40 robbers. He killed three of the robbers and wounded 8 more despite his being wounded in this 20 minute fight. The remaining criminals fled for their lives leaving their stolen loot and eleven comrades dead or wounded on the floor of the train. The eight wounded robbers were arrested.
How does one man defeat 40? How does he summon the courage to fight such odds? He utilized all of the Principles of Personal Defense: Alertness, Decisiveness, Aggressiveness, Speed, Coolness, Ruthlessness, and Surprise. He was skilled in the use of his weapon. Most importantly, He refused to be a victim and allow evil to triumph!
If this one inspirational soldier can defeat 40 opponents using his knife, it would seem that we should all be able to defeat a group of armed criminals by using our firearms if we are professionally trained as was this heroic Gurkha soldier.
Final thoughts
How will you respond if you are confronted by evil as some of us have been in the past and some of us will be in the future? If you have not decided ahead of time what you will do, you will likely do nothing. Those who fight back often win and survive. Those who surrender never win and often die a horrible death. Have you made your decision? Remember, no decision is a decision to do nothing.
Larry and Stacey Mudgett
http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/articles/why-surrender-is-never-an-option/
I will be fighting an uphill battle at school next week about this tragedy. At least it will further hone my debating skills.
R.I.P.
Here is some light reading for you . . .
Excellent post.
"Must've been a white guy!" theory is null and void.
Straight Shooter
10-02-15, 06:03
Had a woman at work tonight ask me.." Were there any men at that college? Was it an all girls college?" I said as far as I know..it was mixed. She said" then why the hell, if they KNEW they were gonna die, didn't some of the men DO SOMETHING?!" I thought for a second, then gave my opinion. They weren't "men". They were college aged males, all Liberal to a "T" more than likely, who were taught since birth NEVER to do violence or "hurt anyone". No military vets, more than likely...Id bet most of them were on their cell phones trying to text or call someone, and Id also bet..and very well could be wrong..not a damn one of them EVER thought about defending themselves. just my initial two cents.
UPDATE: Im just now reading that there was a vet there who was shot 7 times and broke both legs trying to save people! Awesome courage shown.
Straight Shooter
10-02-15, 06:03
"Must've been a white guy!" theory is null and void.
Who are these guys?
"Must've been a white guy!" theory is null and void.
If Obama had a son...
Eurodriver
10-02-15, 06:36
Had a woman at work tonight ask me.." Were there any men at that college? Was it an all girls college?" I said as far as I know..it was mixed. She said" then why the hell, if they KNEW they were gonna die, didn't some of the men DO SOMETHING?!" I thought for a second, then gave my opinion. They weren't "men". They were college aged males, all Liberal to a "T" more than likely, who were taught since birth NEVER to do violence or "hurt anyone". No military vets, more than likely...Id bet most of them were on their cell phones trying to text or call someone, and Id also bet..and very well could be wrong..not a damn one of them EVER thought about defending themselves. just my initial two cents.
How old are you?
Straight Shooter
10-02-15, 06:50
How old are you?
Euro...what the heck man..what kinda question is that? Damn man..get to the point & say what you wanna say.
The way that I understand it, the age of students attending UCC are from high school-aged to middle-aged. Before this incident, the campus was not a "gun-free zone", but an administrator immediately came out yesterday and said that it would be in the future.
Student (and veteran) with CCW at UCC present during the shooting interviewed with Breitbart. IMO, he comes across as a reasonable young man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=201&v=UwL4_KDDuhg
The way that I understand it, the age of students attending UCC are from high school-aged to middle-aged. Before this incident, the campus was not a "gun-free zone", but an administrator immediately came out yesterday and said that it would be in the future.
There is no such thing as a "gun-free zone."
As for the name of the killer, it already came up a couple of times, let's not post or mention the animal's name anymore. Like the Sheriff said, let's not give him or any future copy cat piece of trash the satisfaction. Don't post his picture, he's nothing now but a piece of garbage.
If I see his name or picture after this post, I will delete them.
I make it a policy not to ever mention their names or any details outside the event. Worth noting also:
http://nonotoriety.com/
I make it a policy not to ever mention their names or any details outside the event. Worth noting also:
http://nonotoriety.com/
Agree, to a point. Much can be learned from past mass-shooters, and applied to prevention. Regardless, no censorship in violation of 1A is to take place.
Perhaps an AR was used.
Multiple law enforcement sources told NBC News that four weapons were recovered from the scene in Roseburg, in the southwest corner of the state about 60 miles south of Eugene — three handguns and a long gun similar to an AR-style rifle. Investigators also found several magazines for 5.56mm ammunition and a ballistics vest, one of the sources said.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officers-respond-report-shooting-umpqua-community-college-n437051
Perhaps an AR was used.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officers-respond-report-shooting-umpqua-community-college-n437051
"Similar to an AR-style rifle" sounds like NBC news wishing it was an AR.
This last shooter reminds me of the Isla la Vista shooter, another mixed-race individual with narcissistic personality disorder and tremendous anger. Rest assured this POS is currently burning in hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gQ3aAdhIo
The Oregon shooting was a hate-crime, targeting Christian Americans.
Franklin Graham @Franklin_Graham 2h2 hours ago
Persecution and targeting of Christians isn't just in Iran or the Middle East, it's right here in America. #UCCShooting
If that isn't the shooter in this tragedy, there's a pretty good chance he will be the shooter in the next one.
https://tips.fbi.gov/
There is no such thing as a "gun-free zone."
Per our legislature, yes....per criminals, they DGAF.
Interestingly enough, I briefly looked at the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990).
The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25).
It was introduced in the U.S. Senate in October 1990 by Joseph R. Biden and signed into law in November 1990 by George H. W. Bush.
I believe that this piece of legislation is just more proof that firearm restrictions lead to more innocent people succumbing to the actions of deranged individuals. Laws do not apply to criminals.
Per our legislature, yes....per criminals, they DGAF.
Interestingly enough, I briefly looked at the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990).
I believe that this piece of legislation is just more proof that firearm restrictions lead to more innocent people succumbing to the actions of deranged individuals. Laws do not apply to criminals.
The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25).
I had thought "gun free" zone status was a state thing as different states have different laws on that one. Can anyone clarify on that?
titsonritz
10-02-15, 09:10
The way that I understand it, the age of students attending UCC are from high school-aged to middle-aged. Before this incident, the campus was not a "gun-free zone", but an administrator immediately came out yesterday and said that it would be in the future.
I'm sure that would have prevented this whole tragic event. :suicide:
Damn, people are stupid.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 09:13
The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25).
I had thought "gun free" zone status was a state thing as different states have different laws on that one. Can anyone clarify on that?
Didn't some of this get whacked because the gun free zone extended something like 500 yards from school and in cities you'd wouldn't be able to drive past with a gun- which isn't going to work since schools are everywhere. I think it also applies to just public schools, but I may confusing that with the state laws.
As with immigration, I thought only feds could enforce federal law ;)
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 09:17
I'm sure that would have prevented this whole tragic event. :suicide:
Damn, people are stupid.
I think that is the key to winning over people to our side. You might not ever get thru to a mantra-Progressive, but calmly and factually pointing out how literally CRAZY the Blomberg position is on guns will sway people not fully engaged. You guys might not be able to tell, but I can get pretty dismissive with pointed humor. A some humor with some facts to point out the stupidity of the Progressive position on guns can go a long way.
I can't seem to find the "Like" button. mods, help please.
On a serious note: prayers to the family.
TOS has a member saying a good friend of theirs rushed the PODS but was hit five times. Brietbart has an interview of a CCW vet that was 200 yards away but was too late. (Can't seem to find it now).
I'm afraid these incidents are going to get more frequent. Just going by reports and posts, this PODS was taking in and research other "mass" shooting incidents and tried to get his infamous street cred for the media. His social life, if the posts and reporting is correct, was zilch, same with PODS in California that shot four, stabbed two and ran over more.
The biggest factor, however, that really concerns me the most: they have all pretty much been Millennials. Forget the psych drugs and their BS manifestos, the Millennial part should be the big elephant in the room.
Must be this guy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3257223/He-wasn-t-going-stand-watching-horrific-happen-hero-Army-veteran-shot-five-times-charged-Oregon-college-shooter.html
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Doc. Holiday
10-02-15, 09:30
Any word on what weapons were used?
Any word on what weapons were used?
As of five minutes ago, CNN stated a rifle, three hand guns and 'enough ammo for an extended firefight'. I did not hear mention of calibers.
Any word on what weapons were used?
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/600x4443.jpg
Now CNN is grilling the sherrif for opposing gun control legislation a few years ago, I'm guessing in the wake of Sandyhook. They just had him on screen in a current time interview, ago slamming him for not changing his stance. The sherrif maintains his concern is dealing with this situation, and not discussing policy. CNN is throwing out statistics about Sandyhook and 87000+ Americans killed by gun violence since Sandyhook. Let's ignore that the bulk of those deaths ARE NOT mass shootings.
BoringGuy45
10-02-15, 10:17
I think these mass shootings are actually having the opposite effect than what the anti-gunners want. In the past year, I've seen more first time gun buyers than I have in my 5 years in gun sales. It's always the same story: "I used to hate guns. But now I see all these mass shooting and I want to defend myself if something happened and I was there." Typically, they end up getting a pistol, and a few weeks later, either a shotgun or an AR.
There are people out there who get it and who have woken up.
I don't think 'millenial' is the biggest reason. Fact is...we're getting older and younger people are growing up.
Like the Stockton shooting, or the Long Island shooting. Lare 80s, early 90s. Austin Clocktower guy was in the 60s and a school shooter.
The problem is simple.....we have bad eggs in society. We try to ignore it, but we do. Being a Virgin isn't their problem nor is being a loner or whatever. Those, if anything, are symptoms.
Some people just ain't worth a damn and figure that doing something outrageous is this big act of revenge.
But against who? What? It won't change anything.
FIDO was the best acronym I have ever learned
Shooter left a letter behind, 'a philosophy of hate' -NBC
https://twitter.com/breakingnews/status/649966466540924928
Student (and veteran) with CCW at UCC present during the shooting interviewed with Breitbart. IMO, he comes across as a reasonable young man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=201&v=UwL4_KDDuhg
That dude has his head on straight. No one should be telling him not to carry wherever he damn well pleases. :mad:
titsonritz
10-02-15, 10:54
From now on, I say his, and any past and future shooters, will be known by the name PODS (Piece of Dog Shit).
I'm using this.
That dude has his head on straight. No one should be telling him not to carry wherever he damn well pleases. :mad:
Well spoken level headed kid. Hopefully his open admittance to CCW on a "gun free" campus does not become a problem for him. I don't know what the state law is there and other factors, but he could be a target (no pun intended) due to his public discussions. I wish him well.
Doc. Holiday
10-02-15, 11:24
Well spoken level headed kid. Hopefully his open admittance to CCW on a "gun free" campus does not become a problem for him. I don't know what the state law is there and other factors, but he could be a target (no pun intended) due to his public discussions. I wish him well.
I was thinking the same thought!
The one intelligent thing I heard today was from the mother of a Sandyhook child saying words to the effect that we as society need to examine the signs and symptoms of these deranged people. I say again what I said after Sandyhook, Tucson and Aurora: it is not a gun problem, it is a mental health problem coupled with a 'none of my business/concern' mentality. People who were familiar with the shooters knew something was wrong, but either ignored it or felt they shouldn't interfere with the lives of others, even when they are clearly not right in the head.
On a side note, as I was in the hotel lobby I overheard a conversion re: mass shootings being 'part of our culture that just needs to run its course before we figure out what to do'.
WTF?? Who says this crap?
The one intelligent thing I heard today was from the mother of a Sandyhook child saying words to the effect that we as society need to examine the signs and symptoms of these deranged people. I say again what I said after Sandyhook, Tucson and Aurora: it is not a gun problem, it is a mental health problem coupled with a 'none of my business/concern' mentality. People who were familiar with the shooters knew something was wrong, but either ignored it or felt they shouldn't interfere with the lives of others, even when they are clearly not right in the head.
On a side note, as I was in the hotel lobby I overheard a conversion re: mass shootings being 'part of our culture that just needs to run its course before we figure out what to do'.
WTF?? Who says this crap?
We spent 50 years emptying asylums, making it impossible to commit people and setting up a system where drs are harshly punished for revealing medical information to anyone, even when the person is dangerous and then there's shock when the nuts we used to lock up start running wild...
Authorities told reporters that the shooter had amassed 13 weapons — all purchased legally by either him or a family member from a federal gun dealer.
So much for UBCs, which are the means to confiscation.
The liberal's response to learning the guns were bought legally is, we need to confiscate guns and lock up the mentally ill.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-umpqua-gunman-chris-harper-mercer-what-we-know-n437351
So a grown man followed the letter of the law until he decided to break it.
This isn't Minority Report with Pre-Crime Bureaus.
So much for UBCs, which are the means to confiscation.
The liberal's response to learning the guns were bought legally is, we need to confiscate guns and lock up the mentally ill.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-umpqua-gunman-chris-harper-mercer-what-we-know-n437351
That's what we did until the 70's. The liberals went on a purge and destroyed the mental health treatment system. Just further proof that you'll never make liberals happy, so you shouldn't bother trying. :(
BTW, WTF is a "flank jacket"? She needs to stay away from the mic. :(
Also, further down you'll find an interview with the former president of Umpqua. They considered an armed guard last year, but decided against it because they feared it would change their "culture". What culture is that? A false sense of safety and security? :mad:
We spent 50 years emptying asylums, making it impossible to commit people and setting up a system where drs are harshly punished for revealing medical information to anyone, even when the person is dangerous and then there's shock when the nuts we used to lock up start running wild...
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than to perpetrate violence. Locking up people is not the solution, and is morally wrong.
What's the solution? I submit to you the following, restore our relationship with our Judeo-Christian God, including His presence in our schools; cease the fight against the traditional family; encourage and support biological parents remaining married; encourage parents, especially fathers, to be present in the home, nurturing their children; embrace all stages of human life; encourage religious liberty; and speak out against sin, for it surely will destroy this great nation.
"Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20)
What's the solution? I submit to you the following, restore our relationship with our Judeo-Christian God, including His presence in our schools; cease the fight against the traditional family; encourage and support biological parents remaining married; encourage parents, especially fathers, to be present in the home, nurturing their children; embrace all stages of human life; encourage religious liberty; and speak out against sin, for it surely will destroy this great nation.
"Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20)
Well said, sir.
That's what we did until the 70's. The liberals went on a purge and destroyed the mental health treatment system. Just further proof that you'll never make liberals happy, so you shouldn't bother trying. :(
BTW, WTF is a "flank jacket"? She needs to stay away from the mic. :(
Also, further down you'll find an interview with the former president of Umpqua. They considered an armed guard last year, but decided against it because they feared it would change their "culture". What culture is that? A false sense of safety and security? :mad:
Having spent considerable amount of time on various campuses, the sense of false safety and security is beyond denial. It's pathological in its scope.
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than to perpetrate violence. Locking up people is not the solution, and is morally wrong.
What's the solution? I submit to you the following, restore our relationship with our Judeo-Christian God, including His presence in our schools; cease the fight against the traditional family; encourage and support biological parents remaining married; encourage parents, especially fathers, to be present in the home, nurturing their children; embrace all stages of human life; encourage religious liberty; and speak out against sin, for it surely will destroy this great nation.
"Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20)
And yet invariably when someone kills a pile of kindergarteners, they're suffering from some sort of mental illness. We place people in these prohibited person classes like it's a magic talisman that will keep them from doing harm. If the person is so dangerous they can't be trusted with a gun, then they should not be walking the streets.
Basically the way I see it we have 3 options:
1. Accept the fact that some kook is going to shoot up a place every so often.
2. Lock up the dangerous and keep them there.
3. Give up our rights and accept a complete "turn them all in" ban.
3 is unacceptable because of the gross violation of liberty of all 300 million Americans. Neither 1 or 2 are good choices but if I've got to choose one I think I'd prefer locking up the dangerous to dead bodies, but hey that's just me.
And yet invariably when someone kills a pile of kindergarteners, they're suffering from some sort of mental illness. We place people in these prohibited person classes like it's a magic talisman that will keep them from doing harm. If the person is so dangerous they can't be trusted with a gun, then they should not be walking the streets.
Basically the way I see it we have 3 options:
1. Accept the fact that some kook is going to shoot up a place every so often.
2. Lock up the dangerous and keep them there.
3. Give up our rights and accept a complete "turn them all in" ban.
3 is unacceptable because of the gross violation of liberty of all 300 million Americans. Neither 1 or 2 are good choices but if I've got to choose one I think I'd prefer locking up the dangerous to dead bodies, but hey that's just me.
I agree, but it will still result in a fight with liberals. They'll say we're locking up the wrong people (the disaffected sociopaths who would actually commit crimes) and not the people who should be locked up (NRA members), because they consider being a pro 2nd Amendment, gun owning NRA member a mental disease. :(
https://youtu.be/x5U_XD4kDJ4
Really, CNN?
https://youtu.be/x5U_XD4kDJ4
Really, CNN?
Yeah well ratings and all.
This is like Heathers
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than to perpetrate violence. Locking up people is not the solution, and is morally wrong.
What's the solution? I submit to you the following, restore our relationship with our Judeo-Christian God, including His presence in our schools; cease the fight against the traditional family; encourage and support biological parents remaining married; encourage parents, especially fathers, to be present in the home, nurturing their children; embrace all stages of human life; encourage religious liberty; and speak out against sin, for it surely will destroy this great nation.
"Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20)
All this stuff happened when we abandoned Zeus and the other TRUE GODS.
Eurodriver
10-02-15, 14:48
The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25).
I had thought "gun free" zone status was a state thing as different states have different laws on that one. Can anyone clarify on that?
GFSZA provides an exception for people holding a CCW license in the state the permit was issued in (not the same as reciprocity). States can make their own laws whether to disallow CCW holders from carrying in schools.
Interestingly, LEOSA does not and if you are within 1000 feet of a school carrying under LEOSA only you can be prosecuted
I won't blame religion or lack of religion.
Blame is solely on the shoulders of the shooter.
If your life sucks so bad, do something crazy in a positive way.
Rent a Ferrari, blast some Journey, hit on people waaaaaay outta your league, or just leave town.
Move out the basement and do something different. Bitching on the internet and shooting other people with their own problems won't help.
Watching POTUS now.. Guns are bad, blah blah blah, NRA excels at spreading fear, blah blah. Oddly enough he did acknowledge the daily shootings in Chicago oddly enough.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 15:29
The one intelligent thing I heard today was from the mother of a Sandyhook child saying words to the effect that we as society need to examine the signs and symptoms of these deranged people. I say again what I said after Sandyhook, Tucson and Aurora: it is not a gun problem, it is a mental health problem coupled with a 'none of my business/concern' mentality. People who were familiar with the shooters knew something was wrong, but either ignored it or felt they shouldn't interfere with the lives of others, even when they are clearly not right in the head.
On a side note, as I was in the hotel lobby I overheard a conversion re: mass shootings being 'part of our culture that just needs to run its course before we figure out what to do'.
WTF?? Who says this crap?
I think it is in our culture, in that we have a culture that glorifies mindless violence and we celebrate merit less notoriety. Neither party is addressing that as the cause of these problems, so until the stop going after guns and ignoring the problem, it is just going to continue.
Cops in school, CCW, UBLs, mag bans are all reactions to the problem, not addressing the crazy violent people.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 15:41
All this stuff happened when we abandoned Zeus and the other TRUE GODS.
It's not religion per se but values, and not the collectivist, relativistic values that Progresssives are trying to fill society with since they decided that the 1A means freedom from religion.
A line between right and wrong objectively drawn that puts responsibility on the individual for their actions and its consequences in relation to other people. Not one point of that is contained in modern Progressive me-ology.
Christian, pagan, Islamic is all preferable to BHOidism.
Outlander Systems
10-02-15, 15:42
Because, ultimately, the crazy violent people aren't the target for disarmament mah brotha...
...not addressing the crazy violent people.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 15:46
Because, ultimately, the crazy violent people aren't the target for disarmament mah brotha...
The current Progressive plan for gun violence is like going to a mass casualty event and putting tourniquets on the necks of everyone that isn't bleeding. The wrong cure for the wrong people.
titsonritz
10-02-15, 16:15
These damn libtards need to come to grips with the fact that evil exists. When it rears it's ugly head, crush it. No manner of legislation while ever change that fact, it will only take the tools out of the hands of good people to deal with it.
titsonritz
10-02-15, 16:24
35275
The POS had steel plates in his carrier.
In addition, investigators at the school recovered a flak jacket with steel plates lying next to a rifle and five magazines. Additional ammunition was found in the home, Nunez said.
And he was an army washout.
had enlisted in the U.S. Army and was stationed at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, from Nov. 5 to Dec. 11, 2008, Army officials said. But he was discharged for "failing to meet the minimum administrative standards to serve," the Army added.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-umpqua-gunman-chris-harper-mercer-what-we-know-n437351
titsonritz
10-02-15, 16:50
The POS had steel plates in his carrier.
Yep, in the flank jacket.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-02-15, 17:02
Just a matter of time till some idiot says that we need to ban AR500 in IPSC silhouette shapes. I'm sure they'll think the T slot in the head is for vision slits.....
Last night I was eating dinner and the three tards behind me were talking about how it's too easy for anyone to get a gun, the problem is there is no registration and even carry permits are only $50 and you only have to fire one shot.
Then they went on and on about how people don't solve their problems by fighting anymore, how they just go get a gun and kill anyone they don't agree with. The supreme irony being I was carrying a gun at the time and I completely disagreed with all of them.
Last night I was eating dinner and the three tards behind me were talking about how it's too easy for anyone to get a gun, the problem is there is no registration and even carry permits are only $50 and you only have to fire one shot.
Then they went on and on about how people don't solve their problems by fighting anymore, how they just go get a gun and kill anyone they don't agree with. The supreme irony being I was carrying a gun at the time and I completely disagreed with all of them.
you still carry a P226?
People believe want they want to believe.
People die from head trauma....from fist fights.
Most people who mean harm don't go one on one, boxer's rules. They gang up.
Trying to rationalize things to fit a worldview that doesn't exist.
Humans, people forget, are primates. Animals. From hurling bones to flying drones. We are a work in progress.
Disarmament leads to a lot of bad things that I don't need to cite here as it preaches to the choir.
People forgot somewhere how to accept mortality and hardship.
Someone could shoot and kill me. I would die. It would suck. But the world will turn again. In time, our pissant galaxy will be wiped out by a supernova of our sun (which is an ordinary, rack grade star) eons from then....nobody will care. Nobody for lightyears.
So.....spare the Sarah Mclachlan and demands for a plan. People think it's cold but it's reality.
If I get gunned down at work...someone who never met me and probably wouldn't like me IRL would post a link. Wah.
And I will just be dead. Like anyone and everyone who ever died.
I decided in my super early 20s that I have too much dignity for my death to have any positive or negative significance.
In a better time, we would curse the criminal, mourn our dead, and keep living. Not capitalize on it for political points or emotionalize inalienable rights.
Feelings are a luxury. Rice and Chocolate.
The mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence than to perpetrate violence. Locking up people is not the solution, and is morally wrong.
What's the solution? I submit to you the following, restore our relationship with our Judeo-Christian God, including His presence in our schools; cease the fight against the traditional family; encourage and support biological parents remaining married; encourage parents, especially fathers, to be present in the home, nurturing their children; embrace all stages of human life; encourage religious liberty; and speak out against sin, for it surely will destroy this great nation.
"Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good" (Isaiah 5:20)
No amount of religion is going to stop a nutjub from going all kookoo for cocopufs. Some of the violence and lack of coping skills can be alleviated with better family a faith dynamics for sure, but these kinds of PODS need are a special kind of snowflake that needs to be eliminated from society.
There is no solution to these kinds of things that don't involve erasing some form of Liberty for the sake of temporary safety. Sorry but the truth hurts sometimes. We either force everyone to be disarmed or we lock people up on the notion that they might do harm. Neither of those are good options IMO. Psychiatry is more art than science and till 1+1=2 for EVERY shrink out there I'm not willing to go on witch hunts.
I posit that the best solution to these kinds of event is less government control not more. Allow people to defend themselves as they see fit. Protect those who justifiably use violence to defend themselves and those around from criminal, civil and political persecution.
These damn libtards need to come to grips with the fact that evil exists. When it rears it's ugly head, crush it. No manner of legislation while ever change that fact, it will only take the tools out of the hands of good people to deal with it.
And when, with the help of the minions that I have armed with cases of rusty old Moisin-Nagant rifles, I become supreme warlord, I will replace THEIR candy-ass relativism with MY standards. After all, who are THEY to judge? Hmm?
A GoFundMe page was set up for Chris Mintz about 8 hours ago, and has generated $325K+ already.
you still carry a P226?
That is what I had at the time.
Reagan was shot:"Heh...Well Nancy, I'll duck faster next time"
Obama is ignoring global chaos and watched a local crime: "I will politicize this!
FlyingHunter
10-02-15, 20:05
While our President pimps the Oregon shooting, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin stays strong against the folly of gun control
Via Bearing Arms
In an interview this morning on CNN’s “New Day,” Hanlin said gun control has “got to be part of the discussion” but insisted it was inappropriate for him to air his opinions the day after the shooting.
But under continued questioning, Hanlin finally said, “My position on it has not changed.” confirming he will continue to stand firm in his support of Second Amendment rights.
Just this April, he was one of the law enforcement officers to speak out againstSenate Bill 941, arguing that the law, which extended gun background checks to all gun transfers in the state, would be impossible to enforce.
“This law is not going to protect citizens of Oregon in that it is going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals,” Hamlin told legislators. “It will not do that.”
He also boldly sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden in 2013, after the shooting at Sandy Hook. “Gun control is NOT the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings,” Hanlin wrote in his letter to the VP. “Any actions against, or in disregard for our U.S. Constitution and 2nd Amendment rights by the current administration would be irresponsible and an indisputable insult to the American people.”
The OR shooter wanted to kill police (BLM connection, perhaps). Also of note is that this most recent murderer identified with past mass murderers, and romanticized their crimes. No doubt budding copy cats are paying attention to these high-profile shootings, so we probably can count on a few more before the year is over.
nvestigators said the writing portrayed the shooter as a student of past mass shootings. The gunman identified with the perpetrators of those rampages, the sources said, including Elliot Rodger, who killed six people in Santa Barbara, California, in 2014. The Oregon shooter expressed frustration that other mass killers did not take on police and vowed he would kill police along with others, law enforcement officials said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting/index.html
While our President pimps the Oregon shooting, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin stays strong against the folly of gun control
Via Bearing Arms
In an interview this morning on CNN’s “New Day,” Hanlin said gun control has “got to be part of the discussion” but insisted it was inappropriate for him to air his opinions the day after the shooting.
But under continued questioning, Hanlin finally said, “My position on it has not changed.” confirming he will continue to stand firm in his support of Second Amendment rights.
Just this April, he was one of the law enforcement officers to speak out againstSenate Bill 941, arguing that the law, which extended gun background checks to all gun transfers in the state, would be impossible to enforce.
“This law is not going to protect citizens of Oregon in that it is going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals,” Hamlin told legislators. “It will not do that.”
He also boldly sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden in 2013, after the shooting at Sandy Hook. “Gun control is NOT the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings,” Hanlin wrote in his letter to the VP. “Any actions against, or in disregard for our U.S. Constitution and 2nd Amendment rights by the current administration would be irresponsible and an indisputable insult to the American people.”
It appears that Senate Bill 941 made no difference in this recent shooting. I'm not surprised.
FlyingHunter
10-02-15, 20:26
Gun Free Zones...seem to be the most consistent common denominator of these terrible tragedies. On my first day of office....I will declare all gun free zones unconstitutional. This will save lives right out of the gate. No one deserves to lose their constitutional rights because the elected king prefers to treat them as subjects not citizens, subjugating them to sheeple status.
Gun Free Zones...seem to be the most consistent common denominator of these terrible tragedies. On my first day of office....I will declare all gun free zones unconstitutional. This will save lives right out of the gate. No one deserves to lose their constitutional rights because the elected king prefers to treat them as subjects not citizens, subjugating them to sheeple status.
Your first day of office as what? Emperor?
Your first day of office as what? Emperor?
Benevolent Emperor, I am sure. LOL...
No "assault weapon" used in the shooting.
Chris Harper-Mercer burst into a classroom at Umpqua Community College firing a single handgun, not the military-style rifle that investigators found at the scene, Oregon's chief federal prosecutor said Friday.
The semiautomatic rifle Harper-Mercer carried was recovered elsewhere on the campus and not fired, Billy J. Williams, the acting U.S. Attorney for Oregon, told The Oregonian/OregonLive.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/umpqua_community_college_victi.html#incart_river_home
Moose-Knuckle
10-03-15, 02:31
Had a woman at work tonight ask me.." Were there any men at that college? Was it an all girls college?" I said as far as I know..it was mixed. She said" then why the hell, if they KNEW they were gonna die, didn't some of the men DO SOMETHING?!" I thought for a second, then gave my opinion. They weren't "men". They were college aged males, all Liberal to a "T" more than likely, who were taught since birth NEVER to do violence or "hurt anyone". No military vets, more than likely...Id bet most of them were on their cell phones trying to text or call someone, and Id also bet..and very well could be wrong..not a damn one of them EVER thought about defending themselves. just my initial two cents.
Disclaimer: I'm not ridiculing any of the victims with this.
Check out my thread entitled End Result Of Helicopter Parenting (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?174367-End-Result-Of-Helicopter-Parenting). There has been TWO studies done by two different professors, the most recent published in Psychology Today about risk averse vaginas on our college campuses. Two different students called 911 when they saw a rodent in their dorm/apartment and had LE come out to set traps.
Moose-Knuckle
10-03-15, 02:51
People believe want they want to believe.
People die from head trauma....from fist fights.
Most people who mean harm don't go one on one, boxer's rules. They gang up.
Trying to rationalize things to fit a worldview that doesn't exist.
Humans, people forget, are primates. Animals. From hurling bones to flying drones. We are a work in progress.
Disarmament leads to a lot of bad things that I don't need to cite here as it preaches to the choir.
People forgot somewhere how to accept mortality and hardship.
Someone could shoot and kill me. I would die. It would suck. But the world will turn again. In time, our pissant galaxy will be wiped out by a supernova of our sun (which is an ordinary, rack grade star) eons from then....nobody will care. Nobody for lightyears.
So.....spare the Sarah Mclachlan and demands for a plan. People think it's cold but it's reality.
If I get gunned down at work...someone who never met me and probably wouldn't like me IRL would post a link. Wah.
And I will just be dead. Like anyone and everyone who ever died.
I decided in my super early 20s that I have too much dignity for my death to have any positive or negative significance.
In a better time, we would curse the criminal, mourn our dead, and keep living. Not capitalize on it for political points or emotionalize inalienable rights.
Feelings are a luxury. Rice and Chocolate.
Yeah you just nailed the prom queen with this one.
Straight Shooter
10-03-15, 04:15
Disclaimer: I'm not ridiculing any of the victims with this.
Check out my thread entitled End Result Of Helicopter Parenting (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?174367-End-Result-Of-Helicopter-Parenting). There has been TWO studies done by two different professors, the most recent published in Psychology Today about risk averse vaginas on our college campuses. Two different students called 911 when they saw a rodent in their dorm/apartment and had LE come out to set traps.
And Moose Knuckle, and everyone else, Im not trying to ridicule either. Having been on a few college campus's, Ive SEEN the type of..males..that are in abundance. I was wrong about no vets being there..the one WARRIER who fought and was shot several times is an example of pure courage. but we all know, the amount of absolute garbage these kids believe in and are being taught and indoctrinated with is unheard of. I like to think, & I have literally prayed and will continue to do so, that I don't "go out" standing in a line, waiting my turn to be murdered by some dipshit. God forbid it.
Having said this..I earnestly pray for everyone's speedy physical and mental recovery.
Mass-shootings are not on the rise, but politically-driven hysteria is.
Umpqua shooting - a tragedy, not a trend
According to a careful analysis of data on mass shootings (using the widely accepted definition of at least four killed), the Congressional Research Service found that there are, on average, just over 20 incidents annually. More important, the increase in cases, if there was one at all, is negligible. Indeed, the only genuine increase is in hype and hysteria.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/10/02/umpqua-community-college-shooting-oregon-mass-shooting-fbi-statistics-column/73199052/
Mass-shootings are not on the rise, but politically-driven hysteria is.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/10/02/umpqua-community-college-shooting-oregon-mass-shooting-fbi-statistics-column/73199052/
Surprised (but glad) to see that in USA Today.
Surprised (but glad) to see that is USA Today.
A balance articles on USA Today?! The end is near!
ForTehNguyen
10-03-15, 07:57
armed AF vet prevented from going to assist during attack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2I93N6H_eM
Anecdotal... I attended UNLV the past couple of years and there's lots of vets, including myself, and non-traditional (career changers) students. Frankly, I was surprised by the vast range of attending students.
I've cleaned up the back and forth between two members. I believe that both of you are good people and passionate about your opinion on this topic but have gotten a little to heated. I think we are all on the same side, let's enjoy this Saturday morning, have a nice cup (or more) of coffee and hug your loved ones.
Also deleted video or picture associated with the murderer.
armed AF vet prevented from going to assist during attack
I have been trying to figure out for sure, whether or not the campus was a "gun-free (school) zone" by law, by unlawful declaration by the college, or if it was just assumed to be. There has been conflicting information both ways. Here are a few resources that I have found.
Oregon state law allows concealed carry, on college campus, with appropriate license.
In September 2011, the Oregon Court of Appeals overturned the longstanding Oregon University System’s ban of guns on campuses, allowing those with permits to carry concealed guns on Oregon campuses. The lawsuit was the result of a student who was suspended in 2009 for carrying a handgun with a permit on Western Oregon University’s campus. The ruling states that the university system overstepped its authority by issuing the ban, because state law dictates that only the legislature can regulate the use, sale and possession of firearms. The Oregon University System decided not to appeal the ruling, but states it does have the authority to keep internal policies banning guns from specific areas on campus. In March 2012, Oregon’s state board of higher education unanimously approved a policy banning guns from classrooms, buildings, dormitories, and events.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/guns-on-campus-campus-action.aspx
Umpqua Community College prohibits concealed carry on campus without written authorization, according to 721.3.19 from the UCC Student Code of Conduct.
Possession or use, without written authorization, of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, substances, or any other weapons or destructive devices that are designed to or readily capable of causing physical injury, on College premises, at College-sponsored or supervised functions or at functions sponsored or participated in by the College.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150317085529/http:/umpqua.edu/resources-and-services/academic/student-code-of-conduct?showall=&start=4
Apparently, the AF vet that was carrying concealed was searched by police, as were all students. He was disarmed, until his license was checked, and then he was released.
alvincullumyork
10-03-15, 10:00
As to the question of weather or not CCW is legal on public universities in Oregon the short answer is yes, the long answer is kind of. Oregon state law says that you can but the Oregon University System has a code that says you can not. Quite a while back a student was called in as a suspicious person at Western Oregon University which led to a search of his person and the PD found a gun on him along with his license. He was arrest but immediately released and wasn't charged with anything. Shortly there after WOU pulled some shenanigans and expelled him. He applied to OSU but was denied admission. He then sued the Oregon University System and won some sort of settlement and almost all the information about the incident vanished. If I remember correctly OUS was sued again and the code on their books was repealed for a short time making CCW on campus 100% legal with no grey areas. A couple months went by and OUS re-wrote the code shuffling some words around and made campus carry grey again. So basically you could carry on campus but if you were caught you'd probably be kicked out of school and have to sue the OUS to get back in a go jump through a lot of legal hoops.
Anecdotal... I attended UNLV the past couple of years and there's lots of vets, including myself, and non-traditional (career changers) students. Frankly, I was surprised by the vast range of attending students.
Are you still in unlv?
Why did the bald British guy video disappear? Can someone pm a link to me?
Sheriff John Hanlin of Douglas County, OR, in charge of handling the OR shooting case, once posted a link to a Sandy Hook conspiracy video, above which he wrote, "Watch, listen and keep an open mind," perhaps suggesting it was a false flag event.
Before Douglas County, Oregon, Sheriff John Hanlin found himself answering questions about a school shooting in his backyard, he posted a link to a video raising questions about another -- the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre that left 20 children and six adults dead.
"This makes me wonder who we can trust anymore ..." Hanlin wrote on his Facebook page on January 13, 2013, above the conspiracy video link. "Watch, listen and keep an open mind."
That post has since been taken down, albeit not before many saw it.
When asked about the video Friday, Hanlin told CNN that "I know what you're referring to, but that's not a conspiracy theory that I have."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-sheriff-john-hanlin/
eightmillimeter
10-03-15, 14:32
Shooter's death ruled suicide by medical examiner in press release today...
Looks like another PODS simply ended it himself when met with resistance.
titsonritz
10-03-15, 15:46
Why did the bald British guy video disappear? Can someone pm a link to me?
Read post #224. PM out.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-03-15, 16:50
Shooter's death ruled suicide by medical examiner in press release today...
Looks like another PODS simply ended it himself when met with resistance.
The vast majority of AS are people who are committing suicide but decide to take some people with them first.
titsonritz
10-03-15, 17:46
The vast majority of AS are people who are committing suicide but decide to take some people with them first.
Which is exactly why people need to sack up and carry to deal with these pukes. Once they are pressed they cap themselves, saving lives. Why the wait 8 minutes for the cops to show and do it? In the meantime people are dying. These %&@$ing politicians and school administrators need to wake up to reality.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-03-15, 19:19
Cnn keeps running this bit about how Barry has had to talk 15 times about mass shootings. How about having headlines about the shootings in Chicago and then show an empty podium, over and over and over.
Please bear in mind that Barry is the same guy who called the Soviets weak for bombing the holy shit out of Syria.
One thing I've wondered. We have the AF vet who was armed but was not allowed to go save people......
How the **** are you not allowed? If I'm at that school and some administration person told me to not go I'd tell them to go piss up a rope.
One thing I've wondered. We have the AF vet who was armed but was not allowed to go save people......
How the **** are you not allowed? If I'm at that school and some administration person told me to not go I'd tell them to go piss up a rope.
Agreed. This whole part of the story just screams Media trying to fish for something to talk about.
The dude had no intention of going.
In high stress moments rules go out the window if one is willing to act. If one isn't willing to act it's easy to say "the rules prevented me from doing so."
Interesting that this has not been picked up:
http://www.eutimes.net/2015/10/oregon-mass-shooter-on-terror-list-obama-refused-to-take-from-russia/
States loser shooter was on watch list for trying to head to Syria.
Also that he (or someone) changed his MySpace profile political views
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
He still had myspace?
That explains everything
Interesting, would like to know if he truly was attempting to join ISIS, after seeing the city & college link with one of the US heroes in France, it's starting to look related.
Interesting that this has not been picked up:
http://www.eutimes.net/2015/10/oregon-mass-shooter-on-terror-list-obama-refused-to-take-from-russia/
States loser shooter was on watch list for trying to head to Syria.
Also that he (or someone) changed his MySpace profile political views
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
titsonritz
10-04-15, 02:14
Interesting that this has not been picked up:
http://www.eutimes.net/2015/10/oregon-mass-shooter-on-terror-list-obama-refused-to-take-from-russia/
States loser shooter was on watch list for trying to head to Syria.
Also that he (or someone) changed his MySpace profile political views
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
As to why the Obama regime and their propaganda media lapdogs are disguising the truth from the American people about this horrific act of Islamic terror against them, especially to the families of the dead and wounded, it is not known—but shouldn’t really surprise anyone as that government has been nothing but a mountain of lies for years.
Hmmm.
Too late now, but if these jackwads wanna go to Syria.....let them go. Bye. Do your shooting there. Hope a Soviet rocket or bomb obliterates you.
It really doesn't hurt my feelings if these privileged Western kids really want to go. They will find out that it really is a one way ride
Better there than here
Which is exactly why people need to sack up and carry to deal with these pukes. Once they are pressed they cap themselves, saving lives. Why the wait 8 minutes for the cops to show and do it? In the meantime people are dying. These %&@$ing politicians and school administrators need to wake up to reality.
Agreed. These scum are only prepared for a situation where it's fish in a barrel. They aren't trained. They aren't mentally or skillfully ready for an armed confrontation at all.
When they are expecting to spread fear and easily blast everyone in sight and raise up this God-like feeling in themselves, and someone confronts them shooting back, they tend to run, hide and/or paint pavement with their own brains.
Are you still in unlv?
Nope, all done with that. I do know that there were people armed in my classroom at all times.
Over $770K have been raised for Chris Mintz, who confronted the shooter and was shot seven times.
https://www.gofundme.com/s75ge9y4
The eutimes.net site seems to have a checkered history and may not be legit news source. On the past they apparently have reposted Russian propaganda etc.
So who knows what the real deal is. Just very odd how the mainstream story does not add up with the shooter. And odd links to the train heros, etc.
The eutimes.net site seems to have a checkered history and may not be legit news source. On the past they apparently have reposted Russian propaganda etc.
So who knows what the real deal is. Just very odd how the mainstream story does not add up with the shooter. And odd links to the train heros, etc.
The same thing could be said of the vast majority of "news" and media outlets here in the U.S. Propaganda, BS, and outright lies.
Not busting your balls, just saying.
Eurodriver
10-04-15, 08:56
The same thing could be said of the vast majority of "news" and media outlets here in the U.S. Propaganda, BS, and outright lies.
Not busting your balls, just saying.
Weren't you banned?
Welcome back bro!
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