View Full Version : M&P9 - A review of my experience
Just to be clear, my findings are my own. I do not intend to speak generally about all M&P9's. With that said, my findings do seem to echo the findings of others, which leads me to think that the following is not isolated and pertaining solely to my experience with the M&P9.
My initial attraction to the M&P9 was due to a number of features. The grip angle, low bore axis, a field stripping setup similar to my Sig, enjoyable sights, and a very comfortable grip that jived with my natural point of aim. Those features are still a big plus for the M&P, but as you may have guessed, I have a few negatives as well. Some of which reared their head almost immediately and others have taken a year and a half and a couple thousand rounds to manifest themselves.
Within the first 200 rounds it became apparent that the barrel had a rough feed ramp. Rounds were hanging up on the feed ramp and I was having failures to feed. I spoke to S&W and they emailed a prepaid fedex label to get the gun back to them to troubleshoot and repair. Awesome CS by the way. The M&P took the trip to the Massachusetts and came back with the feed ramp polished. Issue solved. Not one FTF after that. It would be a sin of omission if I didn't mention that my confidence in the gun took a hit after that, and my confidence really didn't return until another 1000 rds sailed down range. Then other issues began to emerge.
I began noticing that if the slide was locked back, which was rare, and I aggressively fed a mag, the slide would auto-forward just as the mag seated and without manual releasing on my part. After some online searching I found many others experiencing the same auto-forwarding. The solution everyone offered, and the only one that has worked for me, was to feed the mag less aggressively. I've never liked that. Yes, the same auto-forward can be accomplished with other similar polymer framed semi-autos, but it requires an extraordinary level of aggression. This is not the case with my M&P and can be accomplished with little effort. I tried not to let it shake my confidence in the reliability of the firearm, but it was another flaw to add to the short list. Additionally, I was under the impression S&W had extended the actual length of the feed ramp to better facilitate in feeding JHP ammo which, in times passed, would occasionally take extreme nose dives and hang up on the front lip of the feed ramp. To my shock, I was able to reproduce the malfunction with Federal HST and Hydra Shok. Consequently I moved to Hornady Critical Duty which has a polymer tip. The tip feeds well and prevents the malfunction. Regardless, another detractor from my confidence in the firearm.
Previously I hinted at the issue of the slide rarely locking back. After some analysis of my shooting and grip I found that my right thumb would not just lightly ride the slide release, it would often be in a constant state of depression. As hard as I have tried, during strings of fire it becomes part of my grip to depress the slide release. Due to the size of my hands, and the geometry of the firearm, the slide release aligns perfectly with my thumb and becomes an anchor point. I hate it, but I have a terrible habit that I can't seem to shake. Obviously not a flaw of the M&P, but my bad habit leads to a click, tap, rack, only to discover the empty mag. User error for sure, but contributory to my declining confidence in the pistol, and one I don't experience with other pistols.
Finally, the straw that is breaking the camels back is this: slide rust issues. Again, I am finding this is a common occurrence with M&P's. I've read different opinions on what causes this, but apparently it has something to do with the stainless having either a high carbon content or the finish acting as a suboptimal protector for the steel. Either way, I have small specks of rust beginning to appear all over the slide. I don't live near the salt, and I rarely carry IWB with this gun. It is well oiled and taken care of, so it should not be an issue. It is common knowledge that S&W has been repairing or replacing slides for years, but apparently they have no desire to change their melaturgy to end the issue.
With that said, I am contacting S&W tomorrow as their customer service is top tier. I have no doubt that they will make it right, most likely with an entirely new slide. Due to the other functionality issues my confidence is irreparable and I intend to sell in the near future. as much as I enjoy shooting the gun, it is not at the level of reliability I need and expect.
Again, this is my personal experience with the M&P9, and I didn't write this review to bash the M&P9 or to stir the pot. I'm just stating the facts as I have experienced them for those interested.
Nightstalker865
10-04-15, 20:29
What's the build date on your gun?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like July of 2014= one year and three months.
JS, I have a G19 that has also shaken my confidence via BTF. It has all those parts in the glock BTF thread that are supposed to make this impossible. As of today I haven't gotten anymore BTF but I understand your feeling of general distrust. If you are looking to replace the M&P I would take a hard look at the P320, FNS 9, PPQ, VP9, G17, or a Strike One. Hopefully one of those can be a good fix to your striker problems.
Interesting that you mention the G19 as that's the direction I'm leaning. there is a possibility that I will pick up a lightly used G19 from a friend. I've put 5-6 mag through the gun myself and seen it fired maybe 500 other times without any failure or BTF issues.
I'll add this- I dislike Glock grip angles in general. In fact, I dislike the angle enough that I have never owned one. The Sig, M&P and 1911 grip angle plays well with my natural point of aim. However, if I'm going to be honest, I shoot Glocks very well. In reality I've always been able to shoot Glocks at a faster cadence and with more accuracy than an M&P or Sig. So like it or not, I have come to admit that it works for me.
Why not go with the p320c?
I definitely like my G19 as I've seen it put two consecutive rounds in the same hole at 7 yards but I am still worried that the BTF might return. The only real reliability problem I've had with it was when I was shooting some Fiocchi 115gr FMJ. It failed to cycle so I stripped it down to make sure no squibs had feared its ugly head. After that it kept working fine but I think I might just stick with the Blaser Brass haven't tried the Blaser aluminum.
I definitely like my G19 as I've seen it put two consecutive rounds in the same hole at 7 yards
It has only done this once? This is the main reason you like it?
It has only done this once? This is the main reason you like it?
It's not the only reason, or to put it more accurately I could only get it to do it once :cool:. I also like the grip as it really fills my hand well. There are many other pistols that feel "nicer" but also feel as if I'm holding a straw, at least in their stock configurations. I think part of the reason I'm unable to replicate the accuracy is due to the sights that come on a stock Glock.
As expected, I contacted S&W and they emailed me a return shipping label with very few questions asked. To reiterate, their customer service has been absolutely tip top. The gentleman I spoke with said their nitro-carburizing process is at very high temperatures and can raise the carbon levels in the stainless under the right conditions. High carbon steel = more prone to rust. I did a close inspection before typing up the note to send along with the pistol. The slide, rear sight, take down lever, and serial number plate we all rusting. With the serial # plate being on the frame I wonder how that will be handled.
Now the waiting game to see what they do with it.
Thanks for the review.....If all goes as planed my next pistol should be an M&P CORE. Of course those plans could go away any minute if I find a 9 or 40 in a regular fullsized M&P like yours.
I know my two M&Ps have been awesome.
I have a M&P .45 and haven't experienced these issues.. I have been looking at them in 9mm but I guess I haven't done enough research of these are common issues..
Some of the issues are common issues, like the auto forwarding and nosediving JHP ammo, but I'm really hesitant to call the slide rust a common issue. It's a known issue but most likely not common, especially with the number of M&P9's out there. The gentleman I spoke with at S&W made it pretty clear that the right conditions had to be present for the nitro carburizing to cause an increase in steel's carbon content.
JackFanToM
10-05-15, 21:23
I, from personal experience, can relate to your shaken confidence in regards to the M&P. I purchased one, and I wanted to love that pistol, but there were things I just didn't like and had to correct. It began with terrible grouping for me, and that led me down the path of replacing the barrel (bought a kkm drop in). This helped a bit, so I then decided to get an APEX trigger, as the trigger had so much creep, and felt so mushy. I purchased and installed the APEX FSS. At this point the gun was extremely accurate, and the trigger was wonderful, but I began getting light strikes, and then I began getting 3-4 per mag. I bought a stronger striker spring, didn't fix it, so I knew for sure the wonderful trigger was the issue. I really wanted to keep this trigger in, so I bought a new trigger bar, didn't help, bought a sear housing assembly, didn't help, bought an APEX DCAEK...improved to light strikes every 30 to 40 rounds, but it wasn't the trigger I wanted, nor did it completely cure the problem. I then began testing different plungers and sears with the FSS, until finally viola I got a combo that worked, and I was able to fire 1500 rounds without a light strike. Unfortunately, I found I was always expecting the light strike, and as this was supposed to be my CCW firearm I was never comfortable enough to carry it. I had a collection of holsters, and I had accumulated replacements for every single internal part, so I took them all to the local range and sold them to a RO who had mentioned he wanted to acquire one (he loves it btw and has had zero issues). I bought a PPQ...has the trigger I wanted the M&P to have, exceptional ergos, accuracy was better than the best the M&P was ever able to achieve, and it has near 7k rounds with zero issues. Long story short, the M&P was able to "become" a solid firearm, but I was never going to trust it. Was this an issue with the platform? I would say no, it was that I wanted the M&P to be something different, and in trying to make it so I managed to shake my faith in the platform. The bright side, I learned quite a bit, and I understand what I want from a CCW firearm now, so in the end it was a good lesson, but I also know that I will never carry a firearm I don't have 100% trust in.
cutter_spc
10-05-15, 21:24
Interesting that you mention the G19 as that's the direction I'm leaning. there is a possibility that I will pick up a lightly used G19 from a friend. I've put 5-6 mag through the gun myself and seen it fired maybe 500 other times without any failure or BTF issues.
I'll add this- I dislike Glock grip angles in general. In fact, I dislike the angle enough that I have never owned one. The Sig, M&P and 1911 grip angle plays well with my natural point of aim. However, if I'm going to be honest, I shoot Glocks very well. In reality I've always been able to shoot Glocks at a faster cadence and with more accuracy than an M&P or Sig. So like it or not, I have come to admit that it works for me.
This sounds exactly like some one I know who happens to look just like me, lol.
I have two M&Ps, a 9L and a newer production LE model 9FS (with the PVD treatment on the slide and the newest version slide stop that improves trigger re-set). I have well over 1500 rounds through both pistols and have had no issues other than the occasional auto-forward. I've noticed the auto-forward happens more often when the pistol is tilted sideways during a re-load, and that it's usually after the slide locks back on an older magazine (causing only partial engagement of the slide stop).
I've had no issues with light primer strikes, but both pistols have Apex trigger kits installed in them. The FS9 has the newer two dimple barrel and it shoots most factory ammo well, including 115 Blazer, American Eagle, and Winchester White Box. The 9L has the older single dimple barrel and it groups considerably better with 124g and heavier bullets.
I've also put almost 1000 rounds through a friends Pro Series 9mm (the 5 inch) with no issues at all. That pistol has well over 5000 rounds through it and still runs like a top.
As expected, S&W customer service has come through. I received the M&P9 yesterday and along with it came a list of repairs. The entire upper is new, slide, barrel, sights, recoil guide/spring, all of it. The take down assembly was also replaced. That addressed all the rust issues, but they didn't stop there. They also replaced the extractor, mag springs and followers, as well as the gun box with cable lock etc. Maybe the original case was damaged during shipping, or maybe they're just top tier customer service. Either way, I'm impressed. It's basically fully refurbished at this point.
I'm still leaning toward the Gen3 G19 at this point.
As expected, S&W customer service has come through. I received the M&P9 yesterday and along with it came a list of repairs. The entire upper is new, slide, barrel, sights, recoil guide/spring, all of it. The take down assembly was also replaced. That addressed all the rust issues, but they didn't stop there. They also replaced the extractor, mag springs and followers, as well as the gun box with cable lock etc. Maybe the original case was damaged during shipping, or maybe they're just top tier customer service. Either way, I'm impressed. It's basically fully refurbished at this point.
I'm still leaning toward the Gen3 G19 at this point.
Maybe consider using the fresh M&P as trading fodder...I had 2 M&P's in the past.. both are gone now. If you shoot Glocks as well as you say, then why screw around with anything else? I'm in the same boat as you, in as much as I shoot Glocks better, faster than any other pistol I own. This spring I bought a used police trade-in Gen 4 G17, It ran great right out of the box.. No BTF, nothing.. reliable, accurate. I liked it so much that later on, I bought a Grey Gen4 G19. I ended up having some BTF issues with the G19, But, with the help of the good folks at Apex tactical, I got the issue resolved. (I'll also point out that Glocks CS was LESS than helpful, after sending it in the first time and their "fix" didn't do anything, and when I called to let them know, they seemed disinterested..) Anyway, I'd take my chances and try a G19, If you do get one that BTF's you the fixes are pretty much well known, and can be easily fixed on your bench in about 5 minutes..
I've had no issues with light primer strikes, but both pistols have Apex trigger kits installed in them. The FS9 has the newer two dimple barrel and it shoots most factory ammo well, including 115 Blazer, American Eagle, and Winchester White Box. The 9L has the older single dimple barrel and it groups considerably better with 124g and heavier bullets.
This thread is interesting, I have an M&P 40, that I bought right out of the service. I've shot it quite bit, I always think of getting rid of it because it is a 40 and I like so many young dumb asses, I thought the 9mm was wimpy, having said that I've kept it for awhile and shot the piss out of it. Its got well over 5k through it and hasn't once, that I remember, had any of the issues listed above. While its not my favorite pistol I own, (Streyr M9) it isn't something I see my self getting rid of.
I'm a 9mm fan I general due to the price to performance ratio. With that said it seems the M&P 9 is the only model I read complaints about. Guys with 40's & 45's have nothing bad to say about the guns. Its probably safe to assume that there are some occasional rust issues, as the finishing process must be the same. The malfunctions that occur with the 9 seem to be non existent in 40/45. The video below shows the same nosedive malfunction I experienced with JHP's.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C-w2i7OWkyY
I have an mp40, and recently got a 40 to 9 storm lake barrel for an incoming silencer. So far it's been just as accurate and reliable as the 40. Sample of one and not many rounds, but... if going strictly 9, I'd suggest the glock. If you want to shoot 40, I think the mp is hard to beat and the 40 to 9 conversations have a good rep that I've seen.
I use 40 for comps and have a stash of 40 carry ammo that I got for less than what 9 can be had for from what I've seen.
If your shooting 9 only, and already know you shoot glocks well, I really think you should sell the mp and go glock.
I purchased my M&P 9c in March of 2009, after 6 years of CCW carry and thousands of rounds both factory and my own lead reloads. I can honestly say it is the most dependable semi auto pistol I have owned. In the summer months I carry in a super tuck at 5:00 and winter months a OWB combat master.
I have not sent it back to S&W for anything, in fact the only parts I have replaced was Magazine springs and followers, provided by Smith & Wesson for free.
It shoots with my natural point of aim, I love the grip using the widest palm swell. I considered a trigger upgrade but since its for Concealed Carry decided to leave alone.
If I could change anything it would be carry issues, weight, width and finish. It looks like I have been carrying it for years.
ramairthree
10-26-15, 05:36
Some stuff is just personal.
And handgun choice is more personal than most stuff.
I do not like these handguns. Some very respectable heavy weights do.
Auto forwards and inadvertent slide release are not unique to them.
I love the feel of a Glock 19 better than a Beretta, but like how a Beretta points better. Excellent accuracy and reliability from both. I like a 1911 frame safety better than a Beretta slide de cocker, but hate a Beretta or Taurus frame safety. I see lots of shooters limp wrist a Glock and gets malfs, but it seems impossible for them to limp wrist a Beretta. Some love a SIG, but I don't like the feel. Most love the feel compared to a Beretta. Many loathe the XD, I have tried a couple of XDM comps and really liked the feel and had great accuracy and reliability. If the last thing I needed was a new bunch of mags and holsters, I would have bought one long ago.
Your hands just may be meant to handle a different platform. Or your next trip to the range may just click and you hit the sweet spot of grip and technique and it all works out for you with this gun.
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