View Full Version : Edward Snowden: “They’ve said they won’t torture me…
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 15:10
What Orwelllian ****ing hell did I wake up in?
It’s a sad reflection on the values of a country that someone who blows the whistle on the government committing egregious crimes and violating its own constitution has to flee to Russia in order to escape oppression.
It’s even worse that the government in the Land of the Free rescinded his passport.
But it’s utterly shocking that any negotiation about his return has to start by taking TORTURE off the table.
The fact that torture even has to be mentioned is utterly pathetic. And it pretty much tells you everything you need to know about justice in America… and what happens if you dare cross the government.
http://www.sovereignman.com/trends/edward-snowden-theyve-said-they-wont-torture-me-17495/
Are you opposed to torture altogether?
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 15:28
That question is a thread derail waiting to happen, and is outside the scope of intent.
How in the world can you have a discussion on the topic you started with without answering that question?
Seems a fair discussion point to me.
Ed Snowden pulled quite a stunt. He did give up a lot to the Soviets.
Yet, in the same verse he did reveal a lot of unfortunate truths that people would've otherwise ignored.
I have no doubt after this long in Russia, if he came back he probably would die. Too much shit on Obamas face no matter how it is spun.
He's a young man. Intelligent. A lot of life ahead.
He would be smart not to come back. This was a one way trip.
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 15:47
It's irrelevant what my perspective on the use of torture is.
If Edward Snowden is a criminal, please elucidate to me on which section of the law, or the Constitution, affords an accuser the use of torture in criminal proceedings.
Because, on the real, for the real, I can't find that shit anywhere.
How in the world can you have a discussion on the topic you started with without answering that question?
Seems a fair discussion point to me.
If he's declared an "enemy combatant" which is all too easy under the PATRIOT act. Enemy Combatants don't get the same due process or protections.
Hell...back when it first came into being, they were trying to figure out loopholes to charge two bit street gangs with terrorism.
But if you don't support the PATRIOT act then you aren't a patriot...are you? And I said, "Dubya won't be president forever and this herpes of a law will never go away"
I was called a communist.....
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 15:55
You answered my question, and proved my point. We are living WROL. It just hasn't "trickled down" to crackheads, gun owners, and people with big mouths...yet.
Thank you, Sir.
If he's declared an "enemy combatant" which is all too easy under the PATRIOT act. Enemy Combatants don't get the same due process or protections.
Hell...back when it first came into being, they were trying to figure out loopholes to charge two bit street gangs with terrorism.
But if you don't support the PATRIOT act then you aren't a patriot...are you? And I said, "Dubya won't be president forever and this herpes of a law will never go away"
I was called a communist.....
Are you opposed to torture altogether?
Yes, torture is never warranted, and is entirely useless.
If he's declared an "enemy combatant" which is all too easy under the PATRIOT act. Enemy Combatants don't get the same due process or protections.
Hell...back when it first came into being, they were trying to figure out loopholes to charge two bit street gangs with terrorism.
But if you don't support the PATRIOT act then you aren't a patriot...are you? And I said, "Dubya won't be president forever and this herpes of a law will never go away"
I was called a communist.....
All people must be afforded the same rights.
If he's declared an "enemy combatant" which is all too easy under the PATRIOT act. Enemy Combatants don't get the same due process or protections.
Hell...back when it first came into being, they were trying to figure out loopholes to charge two bit street gangs with terrorism.
But if you don't support the PATRIOT act then you aren't a patriot...are you? And I said, "Dubya won't be president forever and this herpes of a law will never go away"
I was called a communist.....
Same here. When I said it would be a tool the Democrats would love to have one day, everyone on TOS told me it would "never" be used against a US citizen.
Moose-Knuckle
10-07-15, 16:02
I thought it came out that Snowden was/is a controlled leak . . .
I thought it came out that Snowden was/is a controlled leak . . .
I highly doubt that. This was far too damning to spin or use as smokescreen
I thought it came out that Snowden was/is a controlled leak . . .
If Alex Jones says it...
This site has gone full retard.
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 17:19
I know right? Discussing how the Rule of Law has been gutted is so retarded.
Only those konspiracy, tin-foil hat types would want to simmer on that shit!
I know right? Discussing how the Rule of Law has been gutted is so retarded.
Only those konspiracy, tin-foil hat types would want to simmer on that shit!
We know the country is being turned to sh*t from within.
The question is: What can be done about it?
Outlander Systems
10-07-15, 17:33
Negative.
If anything, he confirmed everything http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(U.S._intelligence_official) had stated, previously.
I thought it came out that Snowden was/is a controlled leak . . .
Cagemonkey
10-07-15, 18:55
Indeed, pretty sad. And it only seems to get worst. At least some people are starting to see things for what they are.
Why is he even thinking about coming back to the U.S. ?
Why is he even thinking about coming back to the U.S. ?
He's young and human. His family is here. His home is here.
But man did he burn a bridge.
So Snowden said 'they've said they won't torture me....'
Context is king - sample conversation:
Snowden: Okay, I want to come back to America, if I do you can't torture me and I only get a year in a country club prison.
Gov: We don't torture American citizens in America, so don't worry about that. You will have to take the sentence that a judge dishes out.
Snowden to Sovereign Man: “So far they’ve said they won’t torture me. Which is a start, I think. But we haven’t gotten further than that.”
So where is the story? And what is the hoopla about?
Since it has been important to several of you where a person stands on torture -
Fact of the matter is that stress interrogation doesn't often gain reliable information and that information is usually hard to verify, so it is gossip, stories told under duress. Once you've removed the average rank and file combatant from the battlefield, whatever tactical information they can give is quickly dated. Strategic information is a different matter, but not possessed by many, and can be more easily gotten by the use of pharmaceuticals.
On the other hand, if you kidnapped my daughter two days ago and I get a hold of you, be prepared for some pain, I can verify if you've told me the truth by merely going to the location you've given me. Lord help you if you've lied. I'm okay with that - but it is important to understand I'm not a governmental entity - I'll make my peace with God.
Context is important. Contextually, most of the stuff we've allowed violates every principle that we should stand for. The Bush gang were retards.
No. I'm pretty sure he would be tortured simply because of his training and skillset. Not just revenge but to see the full totality of what he gave to the Russians vs what he withheld. His stay in Russia ain't free. He's got a line to keep him in subsistence
Not including what he gave to the Chinese. He's not unintelligent.
He's bright. And he is trained in espionage.
They would pretty much have to torture him just to find out what all he gave or if there are any third party actors at large. He even said Russia was not his ideal defection country, but any port in a storm.
If he's even talking to the US, it means he's soon to be overdrawn on his worth. Leavenworth at its worst beats Siberia at its best.
I think it's looking grim for him regardless of what he does next.
No. I'm pretty sure he would be tortured simply because of his training and skillset. Not just revenge but to see the full totality of what he gave to the Russians vs what he withheld. His stay in Russia ain't free. He's got a line to keep him in subsistence
Not including what he gave to the Chinese. He's not unintelligent.
He's bright. And he is trained in espionage.
They would pretty much have to torture him just to find out what all he gave or if there are any third party actors at large. He even said Russia was not his ideal defection country, but any port in a storm.
If he's even talking to the US, it means he's soon to be overdrawn on his worth. Leavenworth at its worst beats Siberia at its best.
I think it's looking grim for him regardless of what he does next.
Pharmaceuticals.
Repeated interrogation recorded and analyzed for signs of deception and the smallest inconsistencies - the body can lie 99%, but there is always a tell, some inconsistency.
Pharmaceuticals.
Repeated interrogation recorded and analyzed for signs of deception and the smallest inconsistencies - the body can lie 99%, but there is always a tell, some inconsistency.
Technically that is torture. People think torture is dudes in skull balaclavas affixing jumper cables to your balls. Torture has many varieties.
Being drugged against his will is, sad to say, torture. You can interview and interrogate but drugging, hypnosis, deprivation, or anything distressing does fall under torture.
That's if he's even given a trial. They could hold him indefinitely and he wouldn't see anything resembling a Federal judge for a decade.
He's not tradeable at this point. And he'll be in Gitmo for a long time.
And that's if he sincerely cooperates. What he did was just so huge.
Moose-Knuckle
10-08-15, 00:08
If Alex Jones says it...
This site has gone full retard.
Please site any where in my 12,705 posts on this forum where I have quoted Alex Jones . . .
I surmise you missed my post earlier in another thread where I discussed that old Alex is more than likely an agent provocateur.
Moose-Knuckle
10-08-15, 00:16
Negative.
If anything, he confirmed everything http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(U.S._intelligence_official) had stated, previously.
Hmm, I forget where I read an article on it. It reminded me of Bob Lazar.
I've always hoped that Snowden was legit. Several retired NSA officials are mow whistle blowers and privacy advocates.
“It’s really a turnkey situation where it can be turned quickly and become a totalitarian state pretty quickly. The capacity to do that is being set up. If we get the wrong person in office or in government they could make that happen quickly.”
– William Binney former NSA Technical Director/40 Veteran of the NSA
“The only way to have perfect security is to have a perfect surveillance state. That’s George Orwell, that’s 1984 . . . that’s what the world would look like".
– Thomas Drake former NSA Senior Official and Information Privacy Advocate
Yes, torture is never warranted, and is entirely useless.
I'm not so sure.
While agree that it is no easy decision, I think there are instances where it should be used. Muslim terrorists being the most noteworthy one.
Business_Casual
10-08-15, 05:51
If Alex Jones says it...
This site has gone full retard.
Actually, everything he "revealed" was already printed in the New York Times and the Washington Post. I can go dig those references up later. Also, remember all the "damaging" information he was going to reveal - just later on, of course. Nothing more ever came out. Nothing.
Snowden is a snow job. Wake up.
Here's an article from USA Today, that right wing "full retard" conspiracy paper that mentions the NSA PRISM program almost ten years ago:
http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
Here's one from the conspiracy site called the Washington Post, a notorious right-wing nut job site:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700006.html
Is the veil lifting?
The War on Whistleblowers is pretty interesting, Netflix streaming, for those who are interested.
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