View Full Version : How many of you use the "trigger reset" method and use both eyes when shooting?
Be honest. I know all the cool guys do (seriously, and I couldn't hold their jockstraps in a gunfight I'll readily admit) but how many of us actually use these methods? Talking about both pistol and rifle shooting.
I just can't seem to get used to the trigger reset maneuver. BANG.....keep trigger back until recoil drops barrel back onto target, then e-a-s-e it forward a c-hair (quickly of course or it kind of defeats the purpose for fast follow-up shots) until the "click" of the reset then squeeze again.
Then there's shooting with both eyes open, to include long guns. Sure, I do it with my RDS but for a shot I don't want to miss, especially at a longer distance? One eye. Yeah, I use both eyes with handguns doing "speed drills" (if you call my pace "speedy") but again, shooting bulls for a little impromptu competition? One eye for me.
Yet I talk to folks and when the subject comes up I'll ask those two questions and am surprised at how many actually CLAIM to do both. Just wonder if I've been under a freaking shooting rock (so to speak) for the last 30+ years.
I dunno. I do try to keep both eyes open and work the trigger.
I do a LOT of dry fire so really I'm more invested in front sight
You mean trigger follow through? Like basic marksmanship?
I shot both eyes open with pistols to about 15m, and close an eye around 25m. For long gun, I'm both eyes open to about 50m.
SomeOtherGuy
10-13-15, 17:10
I use what you're calling the trigger-reset method about 99% of the time, both rifle and handgun. To me it's just a natural part of a smooth trigger pull, and with practice lends itself to smooth, relatively fast aimed repeat shots.
I shoot both eyes open 100% of the time with handguns, 100% of the time with iron sights or RDS, and >95% of the time with magnifying optical sights. I think this is only partially a learned or practiced skill and relates to how your eyes and eyelid muscles work, as I've met plenty of people who are experienced but still close their left eye for most shooting. I'm right eye dominant and have no problem ignoring the left eye image while concentrating on the right. Other people's eyes may not work this way, or not as easily. If I have to aim with my left eye (shooting around a barricade off the left shoulder, for example) then I usually have to close or squint my right eye, maybe 80% of the time.
I don't consider myself at all high-speed, I'm just an amateur who practices.
I do both. I'm a trigger control nazi. And I shoot with both eyes open. Unless I'm really concentrating on something through the scope then I will close my left eye and look with only my right, but I have noticed that when I take the shot my left eye is open again. If I may what is your general age bracket?
Edit: I have noticed if I'm doing weak hand (for me left side) only drills I have a tendency to can't the pistol to my master (right) eye, almost gangster style. For those I will close my right eye.
You mean trigger follow through? Like basic marksmanship?
I shot both eyes open with pistols to about 15m, and close an eye around 25m. For long gun, I'm both eyes open to about 50m.
Not sure what you mean by "trigger follow through" but I've got basic marksmanship down I'm pretty confident. I'm talking about holding the trigger to the rear as the shot is fired, them letting it out slightly to reset then squeeze again. Don't ever recall being taught that at Benning, when I tried out for the 5th Army shooting team, or by anyone else in more "basic" instruction. I think it's a slightly more advanced technique than it is a "basic" one.
I don't deliberately do the trigger reset method, but having done rapid doubles and mozambique's for decades my finger tends to ride the reset. I never even contemplated a trigger "technique" as my mind was always focused on getting a "flash sight" picture which took longer than the trigger reset anyway.
I can do both eyes open, but honestly having done one eye closed I'm faster that way and only close one eye for the few seconds it takes to fire so I'm not missing a lot anyway. It takes deliberate effort on my part to shoot both eyes open which makes me slower and less accurate.
I do both. I'm a trigger control nazi. And I shoot with both eyes open. Unless I'm really concentrating on something through the scope then I will close my left eye and look with only my right, but I have noticed that when I take the shot my left eye is open again. If I may what is your general age bracket?
Edit: I have noticed if I'm doing weak hand (for me left side) only drills I have a tendency to can't the pistol to my master (right) eye, almost gangster style. For those I will close my right eye.
50yo. Don't think it really has to do with age, just things many people do (evidently) that I've never done. The trigger thing I've been playing with lately and it's gonna take beaucoup rounds to remotely "master" it, or perhaps better put become comfortable with.
I use what you're calling the trigger-reset method about 99% of the time, both rifle and handgun. To me it's just a natural part of a smooth trigger pull, and with practice lends itself to smooth, relatively fast aimed repeat shots.
I shoot both eyes open 100% of the time with handguns, 100% of the time with iron sights or RDS, and >95% of the time with magnifying optical sights. I think this is only partially a learned or practiced skill and relates to how your eyes and eyelid muscles work, as I've met plenty of people who are experienced but still close their left eye for most shooting. I'm right eye dominant and have no problem ignoring the left eye image while concentrating on the right. Other people's eyes may not work this way, or not as easily. If I have to aim with my left eye (shooting around a barricade off the left shoulder, for example) then I usually have to close or squint my right eye, maybe 80% of the time.
I don't consider myself at all high-speed, I'm just an amateur who practices.
Pretty much how I see myself.......proficient but hardly "high-speed".
ColtSeavers
10-13-15, 17:38
I do not keep the trigger depressedonce the round has left the barrel. Clean steady sweeping pull/squeeze and then the same for release.
For one or both eyes open or shut and rifles, it depends on whether I'm using a magnified optic or not and what magnification the optic is at more than distance. Higher magnification increases the likelyhood of me closing my left eye as the two images are too different to properly 'overlap' mentally regardless of range.
I do admit to closing my left eye when using irons at distance shots.
With my revolvers I tend close my left eye for anything over 50yds.
I am not a teir 1 anything military or gun related, never will be, and am fine with that though.
You mean trigger follow through? Like basic marksmanship?
I shot both eyes open with pistols to about 15m, and close an eye around 25m. For long gun, I'm both eyes open to about 50m.
Same here. At 15 I may close my left eye also depending on the presenting course of fire and if I striving for a really hard front sight focus.
50yo. Don't think it really has to do with age, just things many people do (evidently) that I've never done. The trigger thing I've been playing with lately and it's gonna take beaucoup rounds to remotely "master" it, or perhaps better put become comfortable with.
It's the eye thing. I've noticed a lot of people older than me, say 50 and up, close one eye to shoot. My dad and grandfather included. I think that was just the way you were taught to shoot and it is now a habit. I never shot with both open until I joined the Marines.
Try this over the next few weeks/months......
If you track down or see a video of a good or even great shooter - a video where you can zoom in sufficiently on their trigger finger - just watch. Do it with different shooters and try to find vids where they are pushin it time wise. Or - just watch someone live - again, a really good/great shooter.
While they may strive to use 'trigger reset' each and every time - it simply doesn't happen under stress, at least not for a lot of shooters who worship at the reset altar. You will see a lot of trigger fingers coming all the way off of them triggers.
Sort of like hard core martial artists who preach specific stances for specific purposes. Then, as soon as they start getting some serious ass kickin - those stances tend to evaporate.
Just one man's observations. YMMV.
john
PS - FWIW, I strive to maintain trigger reset awareness. Why? Because a lot of shooters/instructors - all way better than me - say I should. However, when I'm in the soup - I tend to revert to my older ways (which in my case really IS older ways:). Hell - I have even been known to revert to a Weaver stance at times - if that tells you how old my ways are:)
SomeOtherGuy
10-13-15, 19:24
For additional replies, I would be curious for people to add whether they do any competitive handgun action shooting (IPSC, USPSA, IDPA etc.) and whether they do any benchrest, F-class, or sniper-style precision rifle shooting. I'm asking because I've found both of those reward the trigger reset method, for opposite reasons - handgun because working the reset is faster than full let off and bang, and precision because good shots require near perfect follow-through, and I often don't let off the trigger until I see the bullet impact or even see the target frame lowered.
While they may strive to use 'trigger reset' each and every time - it simply doesn't happen under stress, at least not for a lot of shooters who worship at the reset altar. You will see a lot of trigger fingers coming all the way off of them triggers.
I think practice is what makes the difference. Like for so many things. Practice without stress probably isn't good enough. Any stress will be somewhat artificial, but shooting after you've sprinted 25 yards, while on a timer and with a mix of friends and rivals watching how you do, is better than purely relaxed bench practice. For me at least it tends to show that going slow and smooth results in more hits, faster, than blasting away at max speed.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-13-15, 20:17
This is like asking people if they are above average drivers or lovers....
High-speed film, or it didn't happen. Nobody thinks they don't do it, just like no one aims to pee on the floor at the urinal- but it happens, a lot.
The one person who I know does it right? Actually my 10 year old son. He got complemented in the recent 22lr prairie dog match. The scorer noticed that he had a smooth pull and pegged it thru recoil. He came in 4th out of about 15 adults shooting. Of course, it's a bolt gun so reset for the next shot isn't the main issue. With a couple of thousand rounds thru the 22/45, M&P 22 rifle and pistol, I don't let him run-and-gun, so I don't know how he'd do at speed, but I've worked with him on the trigger from the very first shot. He's bang, reset, bang, reset. The eye thing, still working on. Still trying to figure out if he has an eye dominance issue.
Nothing like using a fuji camera at 240fps to see what is really happening with recoil and reset.
I always ride that trigger reset. Always. In rapid fire strings I go from click to click on my Glocks, ARs and any other semi-auto. In slow fire or long shot strings, I really pay attention to the follow through and reset. Any gun, like the Springfield XD and all its iterations, that has too long of a reset is a deal killer for me. The 1911 has the best trigger and best reset of any handgun I've ever fired, but I don't care much for the rest of the gun. I've never been in love with the Glock trigger, but all things considered, that is my handgun of choice and the trigger is manageable for me.
I've tried the both eyes open thing many times over the years. It just doesn't work for me. I can do it up close with a RDS on a long gun, but in almost all instances I am both faster and more accurate with one eye shut when the shots break.
One eye closed for both pistol and rifle, reset ride on rifle only.
ETA- I don't C-clamp rifles or shoot pistol thumbs forward either. Given I do everything wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to take on anyone and would hold my own against all but the very best shooters.
I'm a very instinctive shooter who is well practiced.
Given I do everything wrong, I wouldn't hesitate to take on anyone and would hold my own against all but the very best shooters.
Can you imagine a M4C shooting competition? How fun would that be? I'll bet we have some seriously good shooters in our ranks here.
Can you imagine a M4C shooting competition? How fun would that be? I'll bet we have some seriously good shooters in our ranks here.
Well we have people like Jesse Tischauser and Jack Leuba that have national level trophies in competition shooting. We have crazy good shooters like Haley, Vickers, Surf, and many others that may not compete much anymore but are VERY good.
It wouldn't be fair to the rest of us!
The only time I don't shoot both eyes is open is when I'm struggling to pick up a good sight picture and close one out of habit. I'm working on fixing that though. As for the reset, I do that pretty much all of the time too, whether I'm trying or not. Isn't the point of it (or at least one of them) to avoid slapping the trigger?
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I used to close one eye with pistols until a couple of years ago when I learned different and man it was much easier to shoot. I have always closed one eye with iron sights on a rifle but here recently I have been practicing with just squinting one eye; takes practice but it is much easier on the eyes. Obviously both eyes open with red dots. I have never used a magnified optic besides an Acog & M145; eyes open or one closed was dependent on distance of target. As for trigger reset, I was taught in BRM and ARM while in OSUT to release only enough to feel the trigger reset (metallic click with an AR/M4/M16). I love the reset method; much smoother pulls, easier to stay on target (less movement), and improves accuracy (if done right).
Riding the sear to reset is different than resetting during or after recoil (Ie, pinning the trigger). Not really sure which you are talking about when it comes to the trigger question? I work different triggers in different manners, very much trigger dependent. As for riding the sear to reset, I was groomed in that shooting era and taught it to student years ago and it is still widely taught, mostly due to dogma. IMO it is not the correct method the majority of the time even with various weapons / triggers. For resetting during recoil, yes this is most often the best time to do it.
As for eyes, IMO two eyes open is greatly over emphasized. If you shoot two eyes open and do it well great. If you squint or close an eye during the sight alignment phase to force dominance not a problem either.
I shoot pistol, rifle and shot gun with both eyes open. It works very well for me.
I don't "ride the reset" per se. I press, it goes boom then my finger comes forward and the process starts all over again when the front sight comes back down.
Riding the sear to reset is different than resetting during or after recoil (Ie, pinning the trigger). Not really sure which you are talking about when it comes to the trigger question? I work different triggers in different manners, very much trigger dependent. As for riding the sear to reset, I was groomed in that shooting era and taught it to student years ago and it is still widely taught, mostly due to dogma. IMO it is not the correct method the majority of the time even with various weapons / triggers. For resetting during recoil, yes this is most often the best time to do it.
As for eyes, IMO two eyes open is greatly over emphasized. If you shoot two eyes open and do it well great. If you squint or close an eye during the sight alignment phase to force dominance not a problem either.
Yeah, I think sometimes we get obsessed with minutia. Let somebody like Kyle Lamb do something unique and it becomes gospel. All the top IPSC shooters and other competitors become the template, as if specific pinky finger position is going to raise somebody who shoots twice a month up to their level of ability.
Bob Munden used to hold handguns upside down and shoot them more accurately than the rest of us so clearly it isn't a matter of which foot is where or if you are truly pressing your palms together equally.
For people in LE, the military and others who engage in "group instruction" that is the main reason for having specific ways of doing everything so everyone does them the same way. In some cases it does become important, Al Quida killers and top competitors measure success in hundredths of a second, but for typical shooters they don't put in the number of hours for it to really matter.
I could be given private instruction for a month by Kyle Lamb and it wouldn't make me Delta ready. I'd certainly learn a shitload of tips and tricks, maybe streamline this or that, but my performance wouldn't undergo a dramatic revolution. At the same time, given unlimited ammo and range time, if I didn't really change anything but shot 2 hours a day for 5 days a week you'd see dramatic improvement in six months.
MountainRaven
10-14-15, 01:15
I've shot both eyes open since I first watched The Wind and the Lion as a kid: If TR said it was the right way to do it, I was going to do it, even if it was movie TR. Iron sights, reflex sights, pistol, handgun, shotgun, low-power magnified... only exception is with a high magnification optic. I even trained myself to use my left eye as dominant when using my left hand and right eye dominant with my right hand (again, as a kid, can't do both at the same time). This is reinforced by Cold War Soviet scientific efforts to push the rules as far as possible in the Olympics in shooting, where they found that closing one eye or even squinting it induces stress and causes a loss of visual acuity in the other eye and the subsequent development for shooters who can't focus on their one eye with both open to smear vaseline over one lens of their shooting glasses or to use a smoked lens for the non-dominant eye. And as a kid I figured you could train the eye just like any other part of your body. So I did.
I've also only ever let out the trigger to reset after recoil. But that's just happy luck: Learning how to shoot a rifle and keeping the trigger pressed to the rear with a bolt action rifle and making a fast follow-up with a semi-automatic rifle (plus my first pistol being a 1911) led to me naturally developing a tendency to just let the trigger out to reset. I probably read something about it as a kid or early on in my gun shooting 'career', but I do not recall any one thing. Not like I do for the both eyes open.
I'm not a competition shooter. Have very little formal training. Just a guy who likes fighting guns and has for most of his life.
Both eyes open, always have. The exception for scoped rifle, then I squint with my left eye (never completely close it...just doesn't feel right).
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