View Full Version : back up sights
I'm looking for a set of back up sights for my dd. What are you guys running?
Do you want flip-ups or fixed? Or maybe offsets? Are these backup to an optic? I'm guessing they are since you refer to them as backup sights. What kind of optic?
I'm running Magpul MBUS Pros with an Aimpoint Micro and an EoTech.
Oh sorry yea I do have a aimpoint on the rifle and I do want flip ups. There's just a lot to choose from and I haven't had any dealing with any
I run fixed sights with my red dots in a lower 1/3 co-winess mount, a2 up front, chopped carry handle behind, no need to flip anything up, they're always right there if you need them and they don't interfere with your field of view when you're using the red dot since they're not in the same plane of focus
I like the MBUS Pros due to their small size when folded down. Troy and KAC are popular as well, KAC being the most costly. Bobro has recently started offering folding sights but I've never seen them in person. Given the quality of their mounts I can only guess the sights are good to go.
The polymer Magpul MBUS (not the Pros) will also do the job if you're looking for a less expensive option.
How much are you looking to spend?
Running troy folding sights on every rifle. You can get a great price on them if you search the equipment exchange.
I'm running Knights Armament flip-ups on both of my uppers, expensive but ya gotta pay to play with Kac equipment.
KAC and Troy are my favorites..
Troy is all I use. I have for years and see nothing new that is better. They are rock solid and work well.
556BlackRifle
10-18-15, 21:11
Currently running polymer Magpul MBUS on two rifles and they work great as backup sights. Eventually I'll upgrade to KAC on one of the rifles. Also DD fixed and FSB on another and I'm very pleased with DD as well. Only downside with the DD fixed rear sight is that it doesn't fold down.
titsonritz
10-18-15, 21:18
I am using MBUS Pros with my T-1.
The highest damage and wear portion of irons tend to be the upper area of either side of the base. I primarily only use Magpul steel irons or KAC's micros, which tend to hold up very well and maintain a low profile, low 'snag' design.
The ultra-low profile folding irons are a particular advantage when running a rifle mounted RMR as the dedicated optic, on an ultra low base. Some of these irons will fold below the level of the RMR's lens, and while upright will stand tall enough to function above the RMR's guard.
For additional information search for iron sights and you will find several threads with lots of input.
Boba Fett v2
10-18-15, 23:14
I'm looking for a set of back up sights for my dd. What are you guys running?
I run KAC micros on my 5.56 guns. I'm using the LMT L8BUIS308 set for my MWS, but they also make a set specifically for 5.56 (L8BUIS556). These would be my choice. I've also used the Troy BUIS, which is another solid option.
For flip ups without a budget, I like the MBUS pro or KAC. If on a budget, MBUS (polymer) are hands down the best option, and leave little to be desired. Right now I have one upper with MBUS pro, and another that came with KAC sights.
For additional information search for iron sights and you will find several threads with lots of input.
We've had so many of these...
OP, this is just my opinion but I've never understood why anyone would get anything other than regular MBUS or the Pros. For folders anyways.
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I have KAC, Matech (r), Magpul Pro, Troy, LMT (r), and DD (f). Good things to say about all of them.
I ended up using the Magpul Pro, small size is what sold me.
I have several brands of BUIS, I have come to the conclusion that Troy are the best, this is because there are no buttons or levers to remember when it is time to deploy and also because they lock into the up position.
Troy sights did not fare well in the drop test because of the locking mechanism. All of my Troy sights required me to push the button in order to fold it down. In addition you need a tool to make sight adjustments.
The Magpul MBUS PRO's are much better in those regards and when you compare the price as well, they stand out.
I have several brands of BUIS, I have come to the conclusion that Troy are the best, this is because there are no buttons or levers to remember when it is time to deploy and also because they lock into the up position.
I have one Troy rear sight left, been switching over to the Magpul Pro's myself, do have one set of MOE's as well.
We've had so many of these...
OP, this is just my opinion but I've never understood why anyone would get anything other than regular MBUS or the Pros. For folders anyways.
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Christ, have we had lots. Honestly surprised this one is still up to be honest.
Anyway, back on topic, I have used the following a goody bit, in no particular order, ARMS #40 and #40L, not bad sights, and currently have a set on a go to rifle, because they are ones I have used for years, they are rugged, at least in my use, and I shoot them well, so well in fact while I had planned on replacing it with another rear sight I can group signifiacantly better with this one which leaves me in a quandary. Magpul MBUS, which work, don't get me wrong, they work well. But, they do leave something to be desired, and honestly unless I am going for budget I think there are better options out there. Matech. I am not a fan of these, they are neat, if you doing a clone they may be the ones you want, but I have never been impressed by them. Troys. I have a front and rear set that work fine. Have another lone rear that has left me less than satisfied. I also am not a huge fan of the adjustment method on the rear, it can be a pain, same with a DD A1.5, Not an issue for some, but it annoys me.
Haven't spent a lot of time with the Pros, but I really think I will be grabbing at least a rear, if not a complete set here in the future to replace the ARMS on the one rifle. Also, for anyone who thinks the Pro's or even the Troy's are pricey. If you shop around I know I have seen Pro's, I know the offset pros at least, down around $135-150 on sale. Not too bad considering.
Thesandstonefiles
10-20-15, 09:58
Oh sorry yea I do have a aimpoint on the rifle and I do want flip ups. There's just a lot to choose from and I haven't had any dealing with any
Magpul MBUS gen 2.
I'm sure the BUIS have to be metal crown will be up in here bashing polymer but drops tests show the Magpuls are just as good if not better. Plus they are cheaper.
BrigandTwoFour
10-20-15, 10:10
FWIW I have MBUS Gen 2 (front/rear) on one rifle. The other two rifles have fixed front FSB, one has a BCM-branded Troy rear and the other has a MBUS PRO LR.
They all do their job well. If I had to pick, the MBUS PRO seems to be the best all around for me. But, being honest, I rarely ever use the backups, since all three of these guns have optics on them.
If I want to focus on iron sight practice, I'm more likely to drop a carry handle onto one of the fixed-fsb uppers (but, again, the Pros do the best job of emulating the carry handle)
Troy flip ups on my DD.
I don't have buis on my other rifle, as I have a scope on it and it's nothing other than a range plinker (my DD is also set up as a trainer and HD).
Troy sights did not fare well in the drop test because of the locking mechanism. All of my Troy sights required me to push the button in order to fold it down. In addition you need a tool to make sight adjustments.
The Magpul MBUS PRO's are much better in those regards and when you compare the price as well, they stand out.
I prefer sights that lock up, others will accidentally get pushed down. Also who wants to look for a button or lever in an emergency. Usually there is plenty of time when folding them down. The Magpuls have to much meat around the peep, this obscures your view, I don't like that either. On a fun gun none of this matters. YMMV
Dist. Expert 26
10-20-15, 11:18
I run Magpul MBUS. Honestly I preferred the Troy set I had on my last upper, but the cost savings was nice and if my T-1 goes down they're good enough to get me out of a bad situation.
Have you actually used MBUS PRO sights? I know plenty of others who have and never had any issues with the aperture.
I prefer sights that lock up, others will accidentally get pushed down. Also who wants to look for a button or lever in an emergency. Usually there is plenty of time when folding them down. The Magpuls have to much meat around the peep, this obscures your view, I don't like that either. On a fun gun none of this matters. YMMV
I run the mbus pro rear and fixed front on my work gun (it's older but runs awesome) and diamond back front and rear on my personal weapon both setups support eotech 552s
MBUS with an AP PRO on two rifles.
I did break one at a training class a few months back, using the motaring technique. Long story, but I doubt any sight would have made it past that f' up of my I own doing.
Cheap to replace though and had served me well up to that point. I AM that CLOWN that will run Irons at a training class from time to time.
MIDGAPATRIOT
10-21-15, 20:16
I've always used Troy but after the whole Dale Monroe thing they won't get another dime of my money. MBUS Pro would be my recommendation.
I've always used Troy but after the whole Dale Monroe thing they won't get another dime of my money. MBUS Pro would be my recommendation.
Who is Dale Monroe?
Who is Dale Monroe?
A deeply anti-gun person with a questionable history who was hired by Troy. When the customer base at large questioned the company about the decision, Troy stood firm and refused to even consider letting Dale Monroe go. A noteworthy boycott occurred in the industry against Troy for that reason.
I have the 2nd generation Magpul MBUS on my KISS carbine and MI folding sights on my do-it-all, I like both really they just have slightly different perks. The MBUS is nice in that it can always be either the small or large reticle and not have problems folding down
Troy sights did not fare well in the drop test because of the locking mechanism. All of my Troy sights required me to push the button in order to fold it down. In addition you need a tool to make sight adjustments.
The Magpul MBUS PRO's are much better in those regards and when you compare the price as well, they stand out.
I have at least 8 sets of Troy BUIS, and I've never had to push a button to deploy them only to fold them. In my opinion the reason the Magpul MBUS do well in the drop test is because they are plastic. And if the Magpul PRO sights hold up well during the drop test I'm guessing it is because they are made of steel instead of aluminum. IMHO. I don't care for sights that require a spring to remain deployed like the Magpul Pro sights.
I use troy, mbus, & mbus pro. Mbus pro likely hold up in a drop test (compared to Troy) because they're held up with a detent, no lock... so they collapse on impact. Whereas troys are locked and just bend under the impact.
I like the troys because they lock... so if they get bumped on a door frame, rub equipment, or whatever while your using them, they don't flop down out of action. These are my go-to on rifles that use the flip up sights more frequently that just "Back up."
I like mbus pro because of the low profile. I can't see them at all through an optic. But they do drop out of position easy enough if they get bumped on cover or snagged on equipment. Kind of sucks when you think they're deployed and you raise your rifle to find no sight picture.
I like standard mbus because they're cheap and they work. Because they're spring loaded, they don't drop out of position like the pros unless they fully compress to the lower locked position. Personally, I don't like the sight picture or the profile of these but I can tolerate it given the cost and how well they work.
I clearly stated that.
I have at least 8 sets of Troy BUIS, and I've never had to push a button to deploy them only to fold them. In my opinion the reason the Magpul MBUS do well in the drop test is because they are plastic. And if the Magpul PRO sights hold up well during the drop test I'm guessing it is because they are made of steel instead of aluminum. IMHO. I don't care for sights that require a spring to remain deployed like the Magpul Pro sights.
titsonritz
10-28-15, 20:21
I prefer sights that lock up, others will accidentally get pushed down. Also who wants to look for a button or lever in an emergency. Usually there is plenty of time when folding them down. The Magpuls have to much meat around the peep, this obscures your view, I don't like that either. On a fun gun none of this matters. YMMV
You are talking about the plastic MBUS sights not the metal MBUS Pros everyone else is. I'm not sure what Troys you are talking about, the folding ones I've seen have a button.
I've always used Troy but after the whole Dale Monroe thing they won't get another dime of my money. MBUS Pro would be my recommendation.
^^ Same here ^^
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/daniel-zimmerman/what-the-hells-the-problem-with-troy-industries/
Not just Dale Monroe, but Jody Weis.
Back to BUIS, I've had Troy's folding battlesights, including their offsets, and got rid of them in favor of the Magpul MBUS Pro.
The Magpul PRO are significantly slimmer, easier to adjust, and the company has not hired any goons and anti-2A lackeys.
MajorLonghorn
10-28-15, 23:00
I use Troy and LWRC BUIS. They're both very high quality.
Thesandstonefiles
10-29-15, 10:05
I have at least 8 sets of Troy BUIS, and I've never had to push a button to deploy them only to fold them. In my opinion the reason the Magpul MBUS do well in the drop test is because they are plastic. And if the Magpul PRO sights hold up well during the drop test I'm guessing it is because they are made of steel instead of aluminum. IMHO. I don't care for sights that require a spring to remain deployed like the Magpul Pro sights.
They don't need a spring to remain deployed. The spring pops them up and they lock. I'm talking the MBUS.
In fact if the spring breaks you could still just move the sight by hand. It locks in the deployed position.
Locks in both positions if I remember correctly
I clearly stated that.
Sorry I misread.
I have no problem with other irons, I guess I should try some instead so I have direct experience. I'm just leery of plastic and spring deployments.
I like the MBUS Pro sights because of their low profile, but it's a double edged sword - they're also some of the slowest to deploy folding BUIS I've encountered. I've always been partial to Troys myself. They've never let me down, always hold zero, have great apetures, and are easy to deploy. I use MBUS Gen 2 polymer on cheap builds. They work just fine, but I hate the apetures on them.
Thesandstonefiles
10-29-15, 13:09
I like the MBUS Pro sights because of their low profile, but it's a double edged sword - they're also some of the slowest to deploy folding BUIS I've encountered. I've always been partial to Troys myself. They've never let me down, always hold zero, have great apetures, and are easy to deploy. I use MBUS Gen 2 polymer on cheap builds. They work just fine, but I hate the apetures on them.
I've found the front sight post sometimes hard to acquire when using the small rear aperture. Is there some kind of paint or something I can apply to it to make it stand out more?
I've found the front sight post sometimes hard to acquire when using the small rear aperture. Is there some kind of paint or something I can apply to it to make it stand out more?
I change all of my front sight posts out on all of my guns, regardless of sight style, with tritium versions. Tritium on the rear sight is distracting to me. I usually go Mepro because the post is smaller than the competitors, but some BUIS have the detent in backwards so on those I use Trijicon posts - fatter, but bright and trustworthy.
I'm a cheap whore. Found a guy selling KAC rear BUIS on TOS a while back and bought 5 sets. Prefer Magpum pro front to keep a low profile set.
Otherwise Match rears and MI fronts. I like the HK style.
I've found the front sight post sometimes hard to acquire when using the small rear aperture. Is there some kind of paint or something I can apply to it to make it stand out more?
Any hobby paint will work; I use yellow. I've heard nail polish does well too.
Any hobby paint will work; I use yellow. I've heard nail polish does well too.
White out also works.
Marks-a-lot makes an extra fine tip paint marker that works for drawing a white line on standard front sights, but not sure if it will work on the Pro's narrower post.
Thesandstonefiles
10-30-15, 10:00
Thanks guys. I'll have to check this stuff out and see what I want to do.
brushy bill
10-30-15, 11:04
^^ Same here ^^
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/daniel-zimmerman/what-the-hells-the-problem-with-troy-industries/
Not just Dale Monroe, but Jody Weis.
Back to BUIS, I've had Troy's folding battlesights, including their offsets, and got rid of them in favor of the Magpul MBUS Pro.
The Magpul PRO are significantly slimmer, easier to adjust, and the company has not hired any goons and anti-2A lackeys.
Not to derail the thread, but thanks for this. I was uninformed on some of this information. I have purchased Troy products in the past, but they will never get a dime from me again. Appreciate the heads up.
I use polymer MBUS rears and either FSBs or DD/LMT fixed fronts on all mine except for the 6.8 which has 4-14 scope on it. Those options meet all my requirements including being relatively inexpensive.
titsonritz
10-30-15, 14:28
Those using Troy BUIS, do you prefer their Dioptic rear or standard round rear sight?
I like the MBUS Pro sights because of their low profile, but it's a double edged sword - they're also some of the slowest to deploy folding BUIS I've encountered. I've always been partial to Troys myself. They've never let me down, always hold zero, have great apetures, and are easy to deploy. I use MBUS Gen 2 polymer on cheap builds. They work just fine, but I hate the apetures on them.
I haven't found the MBUS Pro's any slower to deploy than Troy's.
I only fold the sights down when storing the gun. Anytime the gun's in use, I flip them up.
Those using Troy BUIS, do you prefer their Dioptic rear or standard round rear sight?
I've found that the di-optic sights feel quicker for me to get on center. Could be a minimal improvement at best, but for me I prefer the diamond shape.
lawusmc0844
10-31-15, 11:47
I sold off my Troys after that debacle myself, amazing how anyone still supports those clowns but then again CTD is still in business. The Troy sights were expensive, locked in the up position, and the way the rear aperture was shaped caused very distracting glare outdoors in the sun. I prefer the Magpul MBUS Pros and KAC 600m rear or detachable carry handle with a fixed FSP. In fact my next rifle will either be a A4 or M4 clone using one of my extra carrying handles I have laying around.
My KAC 2-600s are my favorite out of what I own... they basically do everything a carry handle sight does, only in a small, fold-able package. On a rifle with middy sight radius, they are set up to be 1-700 yard sights. However, the next one I'm going to buy will be the new Spikes Micro. It has consistent incremented elevation clicks just like the KAC, but is a lot slimmer and lower profile. I like to mount my scopes on the low side so I can get solid cheek weld, and only the slimmest irons will clear the ocular housing. I also like how the Spikes has a removable aperture insert. The KAC is a one-size-fits-all aperture, and is a little on the small side for field use. I will probably leave the insert out of the Spikes full time.
I too won't touch anything Troy after everything they pulled. Hiring a former Chicago police chief who was a big anti was bad enough, but the sniper commander from Ruby Ridge?! Really?! It's like they sat down and thought about "who will piss the 2A community off the most?"
I have no issues with Cheaper Than Dirt though. They just followed the laws of supply and demand. I don't get bent out of shape if I think somebody is pricing their stuff too high. I always say if you can buy it cheaper someplace else, then do it. If you can't find it in stock anyplace else, it is a good indication that everyone else is pricing below the market, so that all their inventory is being bought up by scalpers and re-sold at the going market rate.
I sold off my Troys after that debacle myself, amazing how anyone still supports those clowns but then again CTD is still in business. The Troy sights were expensive, locked in the up position, and the way the rear aperture was shaped caused very distracting glare outdoors in the sun. I prefer the Magpul MBUS Pros and KAC 600m rear or detachable carry handle with a fixed FSP. In fact my next rifle will either be a A4 or M4 clone using one of my extra carrying handles I have laying around.
All of my Troys were purchased before all of the hiring controversy came about. I'm not going to sell high-quality, functional gear at a loss because they decided to hire morons. However, I choose not to purchase new Troy products for the reasons stated above this post. I really prefer fixed BUIS. LMT or DD rear and Samson fronts are my favorite... and yes, I think the MBUS Pro are slower to deploy. Their slim profile and lack of grabbing surface makes for awkward deployment IMO. On Troy sights at least you have something hanging off the side of the sight so that a simple flick is all that they take to deploy. The same can not be said for MBUS Pro sights. I'm holding out hope that they'll improve the next gen with something to aid in getting those suckers up as quickly as possible.
I'm with ya... I won't get rid of good existing Troy gear because of their policies either... I had a bunch of Battlemags and a FF handguard from them before the scandal broke... but I sure as hell won't be buying any more.
Even on a red dot rifle, I prefer folding irons over fixed just because I like the idea that they will fold instead of break if they get a sharp impact. I definitely like sights that lock down rather than up for the same reason. Also, I don't necessarily prefer metal over polymer... I still remember the drop tests that were done a few years back where the plastic MBUS sights beat everything else in drop testing. By contrast I've seen more than one fixed DD sight that broke or bent when dropped on a hard surface. And if a fixed sight is beefy enough that it isn't damaged in that kind of impact, odds are you will be bending the rail instead (which is worse in my book -- irons are still knocked out of zero, and now a major component of the rifle is damaged).
Deployment time isn't a high concern for me. The odds of even needing to deploy irons are low enough, and the odds of a second or two difference in deployment time mattering just isn't a consideration for me. Worse comes to worse, point shooting isn't completely ineffective until you can get to a place where you can get your optic off and/or deploy irons.
lawusmc0844
10-31-15, 14:39
I'm with ya... I won't get rid of good existing Troy gear because of their policies either... I had a bunch of Battlemags and a FF handguard from them before the scandal broke... but I sure as hell won't be buying any more.
Even on a red dot rifle, I prefer folding irons over fixed just because I like the idea that they will fold instead of break if they get a sharp impact. I definitely like sights that lock down rather than up for the same reason. Also, I don't necessarily prefer metal over polymer... I still remember the drop tests that were done a few years back where the plastic MBUS sights beat everything else in drop testing. By contrast I've seen more than one fixed DD sight that broke or bent when dropped on a hard surface. And if a fixed sight is beefy enough that it isn't damaged in that kind of impact, odds are you will be bending the rail instead (which is worse in my book -- irons are still knocked out of zero, and now a major component of the rifle is damaged).
Deployment time isn't a high concern for me. The odds of even needing to deploy irons are low enough, and the odds of a second or two difference in deployment time mattering just isn't a consideration for me. Worse comes to worse, point shooting isn't completely ineffective until you can get to a place where you can get your optic off and/or deploy irons.
Selling off my Troy products was easy because I only had the battle sights, didn't have their other products. The Battle sights are good but their rear peep aperture has that angle that makes glare from the sun really distracting. Im partial to A2 sights so naturally I prefer the KAC 600m rear and detachable carry handle but the MBUS pro has been excellent for me too. These three sights are much better than the Troys IMO so selling the Troys wasn't a very difficult decision.
I'm with you, the MBUS Pro deployment speed isn't a top priority for me either. All its pros (lol) outweighs the slightly slower time it takes to get them up, its possibly only con.
Regarding CTD, Im very much for free market capitalism so I'm not worried about "price gouging". My main issue is them pulling shit like this http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/12/18/online-gun-retailer-cheaper-than-dirt-suspends-firearm-sales/
Magpul MBUS here. No complaints work great with my Aimpoint Pro.
I'll probably never buy a Troy product again. There's no way they did not know the stories of those 2 criminals.
Compared to the rest of the playing field over the last few years, I wouldn't even buy their products if I didn't care about ethics.
I'm likely going to cut down my carry handle as soon as I put a red dot on my wife's rifle. For me, I think it's the best way to go.
I'll probably never buy a Troy product again. There's no way they did not know the stories of those 2 criminals.
Compared to the rest of the playing field over the last few years, I wouldn't even buy their products if I didn't care about ethics.
Always the option of buying used since it does not benefit them. I tend to do that with several companies that have decided to give perks to the opposite side like Troy has.
Thesandstonefiles
11-01-15, 09:36
Selling off my Troy products was easy because I only had the battle sights, didn't have their other products. The Battle sights are good but their rear peep aperture has that angle that makes glare from the sun really distracting. Im partial to A2 sights so naturally I prefer the KAC 600m rear and detachable carry handle but the MBUS pro has been excellent for me too. These three sights are much better than the Troys IMO so selling the Troys wasn't a very difficult decision.
I'm with you, the MBUS Pro deployment speed isn't a top priority for me either. All its pros (lol) outweighs the slightly slower time it takes to get them up, its possibly only con.
Regarding CTD, Im very much for free market capitalism so I'm not worried about "price gouging". My main issue is them pulling shit like this http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/12/18/online-gun-retailer-cheaper-than-dirt-suspends-firearm-sales/
Also, they weren't following the law of supply and demand.
They were canceling orders that had already been placed when 223 was normal priced and telling people they could buy it again at the inflated rate.
I don't recall exactly what happened but my dad had 4000 rounds ordered for him and me and they kept calling him and asking if he wasn't we to cancel the order because they didn't know when ammo would be back in stock again and he said no, leave it on back order and just ship it when you get it. Happened two or three times and after the last time he got an email telling him how CTD was sorry he cancelled his order and that he could reorder it.
At least that's the gist of what happened. There are some shady clowns in this industry but There is also straight up scum like Troy and CTD. Just my opinion of course.
Haven't ordered from CTD S in 15 years when they shafted a co-worker after I had told him that my experiences with them had been positive. Since then the bulk of the reviews I have read about them have been similar jerk around crap.
runningbear762
11-03-15, 22:28
I have a set or PRI'S on one rifle, and run of the mill Magpul Polymers on another. I haven't used either except for zeroing. I can't really tell any difference, but the PRI'S are all metal.
The highest damage and wear portion of irons tend to be the upper area of either side of the base. I primarily only use Magpul steel irons or KAC's micros, which tend to hold up very well and maintain a low profile, low 'snag' design.
The ultra-low profile folding irons are a particular advantage when running a rifle mounted RMR as the dedicated optic, on an ultra low base. Some of these irons will fold below the level of the RMR's lens, and while upright will stand tall enough to function above the RMR's guard.
I've never seen this setup but have wondered about it, any specific examples or pics?
and still looking for feedback on the bobros
and still looking for feedback on the bobros
I am on the fence. I want to try a set on a lightweight build but the more I look at them the less interesting they look. They are by far the lowest and lightest but man they look frail! Not sure about having to lock the adjustments down with setscrews either.
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