View Full Version : 1-4 or 1-6 Variable Recommendations
I'd like to get a recommendations for a 1-4 or 1-6 variable for a 16" AR.
My only experience with magnified optics is when I borrow my relatives' for hunting.
I'd like something with a red dot at 1x.
I know nothing about MOA vs MRAD vs BDC reticles
Use will be for range, hunting, etc.
Price range is <$1500.
Will you mostly be at max or min magnification? Or a mix?
el_chingoton13
10-20-15, 14:05
I've had good luck with the Vortex PST 1-4x, but at that price range would go for the Vortex HD2 1-6x. The JM-1 reticle will give you more of a red dot over the VMR-2 reticle.
Will you mostly be at max or min magnification? Or a mix?
Probably a mix.
I'm really just wanting to get my feet wet using magnification, and shooting distance.
SomeOtherGuy
10-20-15, 14:23
Vortex Razor gen2 1-6x24 is an excellent scope and within your budget. MAP is $1399 but I know Liberty Optics sells them at $1260 and I expect you can find the same or maybe even a lower price if you CALL some scope dealers. CALL.
BDC, MOA and MIL each have their place, but MIL makes more sense than MOA if you aren't already used to MOA, because it is more widely used. BDC only works well with the one cartridge a given BDC reticle was designed for, in the conditions (muzzle velocity, ambient temperature, altitude) that it was designed for. MIL and MOA can both work with any cartridge in any conditions if you have a ballistic calculator or prepare a dope chart for your own setup.
There are various other good options, but the Razor is one where you won't be missing anything, and will have excellent resale value if it doesn't turn out to be what you want. The Razor's only real drawback is weight. It's a bit porky at 25oz, but tolerable. Barely.
In your price range, I would second the Vortex as long as you're not worried about weight. You could get it for $1500 easily, including a nice QD mount.
I'd get a vortex pst 1-4. It's great for starting out and finding what you need in an optic.
After that, sell it and get specifically what you want... or keep it because it's a great optic.
I still have mine, but I also have a cqbss h27d. Different optics for different rifles.
pointblank4445
10-20-15, 15:16
I'd like to get a recommendations for a 1-4 or 1-6 variable for a 16" AR.
My only experience with magnified optics is when I borrow my relatives' for hunting.
I'd like something with a red dot at 1x.
I know nothing about MOA vs MRAD vs BDC reticles
Use will be for range, hunting, etc.
Price range is <$1500.
I've tried a lot of stuff and keep coming back to Schmidt & Bender. Unfortunately, the used Short Dots that pop up will be just a few bucks beyond your budget as they tend to show up $1600-1700 depending on condition.
That said, there's nothing saying you can't use a Zenith 1-4x. There are several places that have demo'd units in your price range. The cool thing about the Zenith is that it's basically a Short Dot LE without the BDC turret. The benefit of the Zenith/SD LE is that you can use BOTH the reticle and flash dot on the 1x low end and 4x high end with the same utility (no huge dot at 4x, no invisible reticle at 1x).
http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-zenith-11-4x24-fd7-rifle-scope-like-new-demo.aspx
The beauty of such an optic is that it's fast, accurate and simple yet fully capable. It's simple to get hits at distance if you understand your holds (which you should no matter what reticle/bdc/optic you have).
My #2 pick would be NF 1-4x
A distant #3 would be the Leupold 1.25-4x
Steiner 1-4 $699 from europtic, Vortex 1-6, NF 1-4, Trijicon TR24, Trijicon Accupower 1-4, lots of options.
I just picked up a Burris xtr II 1-5 and an American defense mount. It's clear, has great eye relief, also has a bright (sunlight visible) horse shoe reticle. On 1x it is very close to a red dot. It has exposed turrets but they are very solid clicking and is a little heavy 21oz. I picked up the scope and mount for a hair over $800
Nightstalker865
10-20-15, 21:25
1-6x Vortex Razor HD Gen 2
Fantastic piece of glass for the money. Also has an excellent FOV and gives you the red dot you want as well.
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Steiner 1-4 $699 from europtic.
This! There isn't a better deal in a 1-4. Buy it and use it for a few years and if you don't like it, you'll come close to getting all your money back when you sell it.
I'm a big fan of the SWFA 1-6. I honestly don't know why it hasn't become more popular. At 1x the reticle looks similar to an Eotech's reticle and at 6x you have Mil crosshairs. http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx
If you can grab the swfa used for $750ish, I think it's ok, but at $1000, I think it's too close to the Vortex. It's not as bright and narrower fov, while only being slightly lighter.
To those recommending the Steiner from euro, would you take it over an NF 1-4 if the prices were close to equal?
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If you can grab the swfa used for $750ish, I think it's ok, but at $1000, I think it's too close to the Vortex. It's not as bright and narrower fov, while only being slightly lighter.
To those recommending the Steiner from euro, would you take it over an NF 1-4 if the prices were close to equal
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I have both with the NF having the FC2, its a tough choice, but I'd go Steiner because of its eyebox, and its daytime bright,
You can't really go wrong with any of the scopes listed. I'm a fan of the Vortex's due to the value and the warranty. The type of reticle you get will be largely up to you in regards to MRAD/MOA/BDC.
gearedforacure
10-21-15, 07:57
I am going to piggy back this thread...
I have never used a variable 1x-Xx scope before, only 3-9x or greater (typical hunting scopes). Does a 1X variable scope have similar eye relief to a 3-9x, or at 1x is it more like an aimpoint where you could shoot 2 eyes open?
I am going to piggy back this thread...
I have never used a variable 1x-Xx scope before, only 3-9x or greater (typical hunting scopes). Does a 1X variable scope have similar eye relief to a 3-9x, or at 1x is it more like an aimpoint where you could shoot 2 eyes open?
At 1x it is more like an aimpoint where you could shoot 2 eyes open
SomeOtherGuy
10-21-15, 09:34
I'm a big fan of the SWFA 1-6. I honestly don't know why it hasn't become more popular. At 1x the reticle looks similar to an Eotech's reticle and at 6x you have Mil crosshairs. http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx
Had one and sold it. To me it has two major drawbacks:
1) Limited field of view. In this price range the competitors have a large FOV, and the SS 1-6x has below average FOV. It's not so important at 1x but very noticeable at 6x. And it ties in with...
2) That donut-shaped reticle blocks the view through the scope very badly from 3x-5.5x. Although it disappears at a full 6x, the range that you might want to use in dim light or for balancing FOV with magnification is useless because the large, thick donut is blocking your vision. This could be fixed easily by using the T-style reticle like they once had in the 1-4x SS.
It also has a minor issue that battery life is pretty short, seemingly even when turned off. But some competitors have this issue also.
I'm generally a fan of the SWFA SS scopes but was disappointed in the 1-6x. And I currently own, and am planning to keep, the 1-4x, 3-9x, and 5-20x.
Same reasons I traded up from mine to a K16i
CanineCombatives
10-21-15, 10:53
Havent tried one but the Vortex strike eagle 1-6x has been getting a lot of hype as a bang for buck leader.
I have the NSX1-4, vortex 1-6, and Bushnell 1-6.5 and all are very good with different pros and cons.
Bumping this thread.
I haven't gotten around to purchasing the LPVO yet.
Really want something with daylight bright reticle @ 1x.
I think it will be going on a 14.5" for now
Looking for opinions on FFP vs. SFP
FFP:
1) PA Platinum ACSS 1-8x
2) Burris XTR II 1-8x
3) Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-8.5x or 1-6.5x
SFP:
1) Nightforce NXS 1-4x
2) Kahles K16i 1-6x
3) Steiner T5Xi 1-5x
I have no use for FFP on any other scope with a max power under 10x. I won't be using the reticle for measuring on anything other than max power. I wouldn't necessarily avoid FFP, as long as the reticle is still visible and usable at 1x, but I wouldn't specifically seek it out or pay extra for it.
I like ranging+BDC reticles and capped turrets on scopes with max mag 6x or under... but for the ones that go up to 8x or higher I prefer a mil reticle and an exposed elevation turret (for precision use).
Another good one you might consider is the Leupold VX-6 1-6x with the CMR2 reticle. Good Jap glass, good reticle, good illumination, and light weight with a street price around $1000. That is what is currently at the top of my list for my next LPV purchase.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-16, 00:05
I just got a Trijicon 1-4x accupower and I'm pretty happy with it. It's built solid, and the glass is as good as it gets. I also like the fact that it doesn't have turrets, like so many other similar scopes do. I was going to get a Leupold, but they all had turrets, which is just plain ridiculous for a scope under 10x, especially if there's no parallax adjustment. No one "dopes" their scope at close range, and a 4x isn't going to take you out far enough that you'll be making on the fly adjustments.
My only regret is not springing for a 1-6x. I feel like a 1-6x is about perfect. My advice would be to stay away from BC reticles, unless you're willing to only use one barrel/ammo combination, usually a 16'' 1:7 with M855. In my opinion, it's much better to get a simple mil dot reticle and rig your own BC system with whatever caliber/load/barrel combo you want. That's where the 6x really helps. I think a 4x is too little magnification to make good use of a graduated reticle. And even at 6x, I would suggest finding the simplest reticle you can. I'm sure the complicated ones have their uses at long range on 15x+ magnification, but they really make using them at lower magnification a chore.
Long story short, my ideal scope would be a 1-6x with a simple mil dot reticle on a front focal plane. It's more or less a red dot on 1x, and you can do some pretty serious intermediate range shots on 6x. Only thing is they're spendy, like in the 2,000 range for a decent one.
FFP is useless to me on a 1x LPV. I want something that works with or without illumination on 1X. SFP is the only way I can go, unless the reticle is like the Eotech, SWFA, or VCOG types that I term "adaptive", which has different "features" at various magnification levels.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-16, 10:12
FFP is useless to me on a 1x LPV. I want something that works with or without illumination on 1X. SFP is the only way I can go, unless the reticle is like the Eotech, SWFA, or VCOG types that I term "adaptive", which has different "features" at various magnification levels.
That's a point. However, you really need the illumination even on a second plane 1x variable. The etched reticle is nice as a backup, but it doesn't even begin to compare to a red dot unless it's illuminated, especially if it's a crosshairs type. To me, shooting a 1x variable without the illumination turned on is pretty much akin to using iron sights. They just tend to vanish on certain backgrounds, and it's game over if the light isn't good. Like I said, I really regret not getting a 1-6x FFP, but then again I would be a thousand dollars poorer, so I honestly don't know what I would do if making the same purchase today. I'm happy enough with my 1-4x that I don't feel the need to go out and buy something else. And I'm sure it has a little more flexibility when used as a red dot, or a "truer" 1x setting if that makes any sense. From what I've heard you tend to get more distortion at 1x the larger the magnification range is, to the point I've heard that 1-8x scopes are virtually useless on 1x. Then again, I've not shot every 1x variable on the market, so there could very well be a 1-6x that would blow my 1-4x out of the water in that regard, but then again it might cost 4k bucks. All I can really tell you is that my 1-4x is pretty much red dot capable at 1x, and it's not until within 3 feet that I notice size distortion. I can shoot it with both eyes open and notice no distortion at any realistic range.
What I will say, though, is if you go with 1-6x then I would say definitely make sure it's FFP, unless it has a really simple reticle, like the Accupoint. If it has crosshairs then the reticle will be too large at 1x to do much with. Unfortunately, this whole concept of a 1x variable scope is inherently expensive. Long story short, I would go with a standard 1-4x SFP for about 1k, or a 1-6x FFP for about 2k. If you decide to go with the 1-4x, then I would take a look at Trijicon. They're an excellent value and very streamlined compared to the Leupolds.
That's a point. However, you really need the illumination even on a second plane 1x variable. The etched reticle is nice as a backup, but it doesn't even begin to compare to a red dot unless it's illuminated, especially if it's a crosshairs type. To me, shooting a 1x variable without the illumination turned on is pretty much akin to using iron sights. They just tend to vanish on certain backgrounds, and it's game over if the light isn't good. Like I said, I really regret not getting a 1-6x FFP, but then again I would be a thousand dollars poorer, so I honestly don't know what I would do if making the same purchase today. I'm happy enough with my 1-4x that I don't feel the need to go out and buy something else. And I'm sure it has a little more flexibility when used as a red dot, or a "truer" 1x setting if that makes any sense. From what I've heard you tend to get more distortion at 1x the larger the magnification range is, to the point I've heard that 1-8x scopes are virtually useless on 1x. Then again, I've not shot every 1x variable on the market, so there could very well be a 1-6x that would blow my 1-4x out of the water in that regard, but then again it might cost 4k bucks. All I can really tell you is that my 1-4x is pretty much red dot capable at 1x, and it's not until within 3 feet that I notice size distortion. I can shoot it with both eyes open and notice no distortion at any realistic range.
What I will say, though, is if you go with 1-6x then I would say definitely make sure it's FFP, unless it has a really simple reticle, like the Accupoint. If it has crosshairs then the reticle will be too large at 1x to do much with. Unfortunately, this whole concept of a 1x variable scope is inherently expensive. Long story short, I would go with a standard 1-4x SFP for about 1k, or a 1-6x FFP for about 2k. If you decide to go with the 1-4x, then I would take a look at Trijicon. They're an excellent value and very streamlined compared to the Leupolds.
A good reticle design alleviates much of the concern about having daylight bright illumination. The NF 1-4 is one of the few that is great in most conditions with the FC3G reticle. The illumination works fine from dusk onwards.
I do not agree that higher magnification range scopes result in a less usable 1x setting. It comes down to many other aspects, such as the actual design of the lens group inside the scope. For instance, I personally find the Vortex Strike Eagle to have quite a bit of "fish eye" at 1x, while the Razor 1-6 and Leupold CQBSS 1-8 have much less distortion. On the other hand, I can't stand the USO 1-8; the distortion and chromatic aberration fatigue my eyes quite fast. I also have a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 and find the optical properties more than acceptable, but it is (in my opinion) not nearly as good as the Razor 1-6 at 1x, and the illumination is much like the Nightforce 1-4 - only usable as the day ends.
Much of it comes down to how the scope works with your vision, and your preferences. There's no real right or wrong when it comes to this sort of thing.
A good reticle design alleviates much of the concern about having daylight bright illumination. The NF 1-4 is one of the few that is great in most conditions with the FC3G reticle. The illumination works fine from dusk onwards.
I do not agree that higher magnification range scopes result in a less usable 1x setting. It comes down to many other aspects, such as the actual design of the lens group inside the scope. For instance, I personally find the Vortex Strike Eagle to have quite a bit of "fish eye" at 1x, while the Razor 1-6 and Leupold CQBSS 1-8 have much less distortion. On the other hand, I can't stand the USO 1-8; the distortion and chromatic aberration fatigue my eyes quite fast. I also have a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 and find the optical properties more than acceptable, but it is (in my opinion) not nearly as good as the Razor 1-6 at 1x, and the illumination is much like the Nightforce 1-4 - only usable as the day ends.
Much of it comes down to how the scope works with your vision, and your preferences. There's no real right or wrong when it comes to this sort of thing.
This.
Also...what are you trying to DO with a 1x-n variable? I can shoot 1 MOA groups all day long with a capable rifle, using my NF FC-2. You say at 1x the reticle will be too large? For what? What are you doing with it on 1x that you need a "fine" reticle for? And on 4x, well, my NF worked fine as stated above. So did my K16i on 6x, with it's SFP reticle. I could shoot the same groups with it.
Coal Dragger
09-27-16, 11:08
A good SFP reticle doesn't need to be daylight bright to work well. I just ran an NXS 1-4×24 with the FC -3G in a McNamara TAPS class a few weeks ago and didn't feel disadvantaged at all by not having daylight bright illumination. Would it be nice as an option? Sure, but it turns out that for me a crisp black reticle that I can pick up quickly works just fine at 1x when I'm shooting fast.
So my priority list for a low power variable have changed a bit going from square range status use to actually running around and using the optic for a variety of tasks. I'm looking for:
1.) Physical dirability, and mechanical reliability.
2.) Relatively low weight.
3.) Very good to excellent optical quality.
4.) A useful well thought out SFP reticle.
5.) Reticle illumination, daylight bright a plus but not mandatory.
The only optic I've looked through that really makes me want to sell off the Nightforce is a Swarovski Z6i, if the shop I was at had one with the BRT reticle I'd probably own it. Stunning glass, the BRT is a similar reticle to the BRX which I have on my hunting rifle, doesn't weigh a ton, and Swarovski is known for good quality scopes. Plus the illumination is bright, tack sharp, and the controls are very nice. Downside is the price tag.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-16, 13:58
This.
Also...what are you trying to DO with a 1x-n variable? I can shoot 1 MOA groups all day long with a capable rifle, using my NF FC-2. You say at 1x the reticle will be too large? For what? What are you doing with it on 1x that you need a "fine" reticle for? And on 4x, well, my NF worked fine as stated above. So did my K16i on 6x, with it's SFP reticle. I could shoot the same groups with it.
Sorry, should have clarified. What I mean is that the reticle on a 1-6x SFP will take up a large area of the glass, depending on how the reticle is designed and how much of it is illuminated. So for example, let's say you had a 1-6x SFP with a mil dot reticle that was mostly illuminated. On the 1x setting, it would be difficult, at least for me, to use such a scope in the manner of a red dot, i.e. with both eyes open at close range. Too much of my focus would be drawn to the reticle instead of the target.
Having a FFP alleviates this issue, as the reticle shrinks as you turn down the magnification. At 1x, the reticle just looks like a blob, not much different from a red dot actually. Personally, I like the segmented circle surrounding a mil dot crosshairs. At 1x it's hardly distinguishable from a simple red dot, but at 6x it's really useful for precise shot placement, ballistic compensation, and even a little ranging.
That brings up another issue I have with my accupower that would apply to any similarly designed reticle. Since the entire thing is illuminated, it really blurs everything, making it kind of useless anyways. So it doesn't really help make precise shots at night, and it's larger than necessary for use on 1x. I would much prefer something like a firedot reticle where only a small portion of the reticle was illuminated for use as a red dot. The horseshoe and segmented circle I'm sure are just as good. If you're going to illuminate the crosshairs, I would suggest at least a 10x for it to still be useful, as the illumination will blur everything quite a bit. That may depend on the condition of your vision, but I have to think it effects everyone to at least some degree, even people with perfect 20-15 eyes. With these lower power scopes, simple is better, and illumination should be in moderation and optimized for use on the 1x setting. Just my opinion, though. Obviously someone likes the accupower reticles or trijicon wouldn't be making them that way.
BumbleBeeGIXXER
09-27-16, 14:33
+1 for the NF 1-4 with the FC3G reticle. Rock solid scope. I also have a 1-4 accupower with the 556 bdc reticle and it's proven to be a good buy as well. The PST reticle is a little too fine for my taste.
HansTheHobbit
09-27-16, 16:56
+1 for the NF 1-4 with the FC3G reticle. Rock solid scope. I also have a 1-4 accupower with the 556 bdc reticle and it's proven to be a good buy as well. The PST reticle is a little too fine for my taste.
I'll second that. I don't know what the current obsession is with these ultra complicated reticles on low power scopes. Give me a simple mil dot reticle, no half mil hash marks, with a red dot in the center. If not that, then just a chevron or a dot in a circle or something. I like the accupoint's approach with the simple blade reticle. I think the manufacturers would do well to pay very close attention to this thread. Those fancy ass reticles look neat on paper, but they lose their appeal very quickly when you're trying to make sense of them in low light at 4x or even 6x magnification.
I'm thinking this one will be daylight bright at 1x, and won't be too heavy.
http://bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-24mm-illuminated-btr-1
Is that different than the ones that they already sell? B/c those are not daylight bright I don't think.
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Jwknutson17
09-27-16, 17:40
Is that different than the ones that they already sell? B/c those are not daylight bright I don't think.
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The 1-6.5 in FFP is usless. You can not use it on 1x. The illumination is not bright enough. The SFP is awesome in the 1-6.5 with BRT-2. Daylight bright is not the correct term for a SFP 1x optic. You don't need to run it with illumination during the day. I have only turned it on a few times in the last few years in super low light. Lots of time behind them. FFP is junk unless its turned up to 6x. SFP in the BRT-2 is where its at. I would run one of the 1-6.5s SFP even before the newer 1-8.5 offering, even though that optic does have enough illumination with FFP on 1x.
I have run every variant of the 1-6.5's with different reticles, and the 1-8.5, over the last few years.
I'm not discounting it as a viable option, esp given that they can be found under $700. I've heard way more good about them than bad.
But scooter specifically called out the brightness. Just don't want anyone to get it expecting it to be something it's not.
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I'm thinking this one will be daylight bright at 1x, and won't be too heavy.
http://bushnell.com/all-products/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-24mm-illuminated-btr-1
I have one and really like it. For the price point, it's hard to beat. Mine is SFP and BTR-1. I would prefer the BTR-2 but I got this one at a great deal. The BTR-1 works fine for my applications though.
I have the SWFA 1-6 and I love it. The battery life is short but as someone mentioned that is common in low power scopes. Someone mentioned the field of view at 6x as being short. I find it just fine. Especially if it is going to be on an AR platform where you need to go up an down. My SWFA is on a dedicated 16" stainless steel Noveske... very accurate. I will purchase another SWFA for my latest build but this time a 1-4. What I absolutely love about the SWFA over any of the brands mentioned above is the sturdiness. These scopes are built to sustain abuse. They area above average when it comes to glass. It is not comparable to a swarovski for example, but better than any vortex I have seen. But the built-like-tank is unbeatable.
I have the SWFA 1-6 and I love it. The battery life is short but as someone mentioned that is common in low power scopes. Someone mentioned the field of view at 6x as being short. I find it just fine. Especially if it is going to be on an AR platform where you need to go up an down. My SWFA is on a dedicated 16" stainless steel Noveske... very accurate. I will purchase another SWFA for my latest build but this time a 1-4. What I absolutely love about the SWFA over any of the brands mentioned above is the sturdiness. These scopes are built to sustain abuse. They area above average when it comes to glass. It is not comparable to a swarovski for example, but better than any vortex I have seen. But the built-like-tank is unbeatable.
I am curious how this abuse-withstanding capability is quantified. As far as I know, they do hold up alright, but how is it that people came to the conclusion that they are anything special in this regard?
WS6 the best way I can explain the abuse-withstanding capabilities is first just by picking one up. When compared to the same type of scope with other brands, you can definitely see and feel a difference between SWFA and other scopes in the 1-4 and 1-6 category. Personally I have compared them with Leupold (Patrol), vortex (low and high end), Burris, Bushnell, and Steiner. Please do not misunderstand this statement with me saying that other brands are not good. Only that the SWFA feels stronger. Secondly, I have used them and abused them in my training. I have only put two brands to the test in this matter so all I can say is my personal experience. The SWFA has been dropped, submerged, hit against a tree (by mistake), against a wall (by mistake), it has been mounted and dismounted (I use Larue mounts), and it has never failed. The leupold patrol needed a slight re-zeroing after some abuse; nothing crazy but it needed it nonetheless.
At the end of the day there are so many options out there and it comes down to which scope satisfies the user's idiosyncrasies.
WS6 the best way I can explain the abuse-withstanding capabilities is first just by picking one up. When compared to the same type of scope with other brands, you can definitely see and feel a difference between SWFA and other scopes in the 1-4 and 1-6 category. Personally I have compared them with Leupold (Patrol), vortex (low and high end), Burris, Bushnell, and Steiner. Please do not misunderstand this statement with me saying that other brands are not good. Only that the SWFA feels stronger. Secondly, I have used them and abused them in my training. I have only put two brands to the test in this matter so all I can say is my personal experience. The SWFA has been dropped, submerged, hit against a tree (by mistake), against a wall (by mistake), it has been mounted and dismounted (I use Larue mounts), and it has never failed. The leupold patrol needed a slight re-zeroing after some abuse; nothing crazy but it needed it nonetheless.
At the end of the day there are so many options out there and it comes down to which scope satisfies the user's idiosyncrasies.
Understood. I just know people said the same thing about the VCOG. Ooohhh...so heavy...oooohhh....so forged. And they die like dogs. So I was curious if it was substantiated by any actual data, or just the ol' smack it makes in your palm when you heft it in your hands.
Coal Dragger
09-29-16, 22:51
For tough variables, I'll revert back to Nightforce from personal experience. In 2011 I was hunting in northern Minnesota, and took the wrong scope for that job, on a rifle I'll suited to the conditions. As it turns out a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15×50 on a Steyr SSG-69 is not ideal in alder thickets, but it's what I had. During the hunt, my last day as it turned out, I was getting down from a tree stand after unloading the rifle and the sling came undone. The whole rig dropped to the ground and hit some rocks hard enough the stock cracked at the wrist, and the elevation turret on the scope picked up a nice gouge. Once I put a new stock on, I discovered that not only was the scope just fine, it didn't even lose zero.
For tough variables, I'll revert back to Nightforce from personal experience. In 2011 I was hunting in northern Minnesota, and took the wrong scope for that job, on a rifle I'll suited to the conditions. As it turns out a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15×50 on a Steyr SSG-69 is not ideal in alder thickets, but it's what I had. During the hunt, my last day as it turned out, I was getting down from a tree stand after unloading the rifle and the sling came undone. The whole rig dropped to the ground and hit some rocks hard enough the stock cracked at the wrist, and the elevation turret on the scope picked up a nice gouge. Once I put a new stock on, I discovered that not only was the scope just fine, it didn't even lose zero.
Now that is a true experience of proof. Wow. Like I said I will never bash a product unless it is truly a bad one. None of the suggestions in this thread are bad suggestions. In my situation I have to research for the best combination of quality and money, simply because money is a variable. If money was not a variable, I would most certainly already had some NF on my rifles :) Night Force is Noght Force just like US optics and all the high end quality scopes out there. I have found that SWFA provides great quality in glass and sturdiness. I have never dropped my SWFA from something like you did your NF, so I am so glad that it sustained such drop. I did see in youtube a video for the SWFA from Tiborasourusrex that is pretty convincing. Thanks for sharing that story Coal Dragger
Now that is a true experience of proof. Wow. Like I said I will never bash a product unless it is truly a bad one. None of the suggestions in this thread are bad suggestions. In my situation I have to research for the best combination of quality and money, simply because money is a variable. If money was not a variable, I would most certainly already had some NF on my rifles :) Night Force is Noght Force just like US optics and all the high end quality scopes out there. I have found that SWFA provides great quality in glass and sturdiness. I have never dropped my SWFA from something like you did your NF, so I am so glad that it sustained such drop. I did see in youtube a video for the SWFA from Tiborasourusrex that is pretty convincing. Thanks for sharing that story Coal Dragger
Nightforce spec's 1250g's of accel/decel from multiple angles, 100ft waterproof, and some pretty extreme temperature swings (well beyond what you would last through as a human being) with function test at each extreme, and that's just for their civilian NXS line. The military line is tested to 300% more shock simulation, 300 ft submersion, and is up to 5% brighter/with better chromatic fidelity, among other things. I have yet to hear of an optic as durable as NF's NXS military line, or even their civilian line, that still uses glass as the optical medium.
Simply amazing. My understanding is that US Optics are also hardcore tested as well. One day I will be able to have a NF :)
Simply amazing. My understanding is that US Optics are also hardcore tested as well. One day I will be able to have a NF :)
I don't know about USO's testing, but I have never heard of anything good about them, and half of the online reviews involve warranty work.
I don't know about USO's testing, but I have never heard of anything good about them, and half of the online reviews involve warranty work.
I can tell you that the USO scopes that I have had are very good. Top notch optics. They are built for a no frills hard use environment.
I too have owned many different scopes and I will tell you that I have TRIED to like NF and it just does not take. I have had 3 NSX 1-4 and 4 NSX 2.5-10......... For the money I found ones that I liked better and that were just as durable. But i will probably try one more because I can't get the ATACR 4-16 out of my head.
But i will probably try one more because I can't get the ATACR 4-16 out of my head.
For good reason. It's amazing. :)
Eurodriver
09-30-16, 19:42
I was never a variable optic fan until a few weeks ago I saw Failure2Stop run the SHIT out of a 1-4x NF equipped gun. Like, one handed weak hand target transitions to 300yard standing/prone/kneeling.
Now I need one. I need one more than anything.
I was never a variable optic fan until a few weeks ago I saw Failure2Stop run the SHIT out of a 1-4x NF equipped gun. Like, one handed weak hand target transitions to 300yard standing/prone/kneeling.
Now I need one. I need one more than anything.
F2S is a beast.
I was never a variable optic fan until a few weeks ago I saw Failure2Stop run the SHIT out of a 1-4x NF equipped gun. Like, one handed weak hand target transitions to 300yard standing/prone/kneeling.
Now I need one. I need one more than anything.
That's because it's about the most forgiving tube optic I've ever seen of head position. I have owned a vcog and k16i, and neither was near as forgiving on 1x.
F2S is a beast.
And that, as well as being good people!
Coal Dragger
10-01-16, 00:34
Now that is a true experience of proof. Wow. Like I said I will never bash a product unless it is truly a bad one. None of the suggestions in this thread are bad suggestions. In my situation I have to research for the best combination of quality and money, simply because money is a variable. If money was not a variable, I would most certainly already had some NF on my rifles :) Night Force is Noght Force just like US optics and all the high end quality scopes out there. I have found that SWFA provides great quality in glass and sturdiness. I have never dropped my SWFA from something like you did your NF, so I am so glad that it sustained such drop. I did see in youtube a video for the SWFA from Tiborasourusrex that is pretty convincing. Thanks for sharing that story Coal Dragger
No problem, not how I wanted that hunt to go but I found out the hard way just how tough a good optic can be.
No problem, not how I wanted that hunt to go but I found out the hard way just how tough a good optic can be.
Side impact is what KILLS tube optics. The nightforce 1-4 was the result of NF buying every lpv on the market at the time, and beating the hell out of them in the lab, and seeing what worked, what didnt, why, and then improving it and beefing it up as much as possible. Most scopes were pretty good fore and aft, but side impact durability was often very lacking.
Coal Dragger
10-01-16, 01:55
Well that NXS 3.5-15×50 took an impact right smack ass on the elevation turret, and seems functionally no worse for wear.
I wish the rifle stock was as tough as the scope.
That's because it's about the most forgiving tube optic I've ever seen of head position. I have owned a ... k16i, and neither was near as forgiving on 1x.Do you mean eye relief?
Do you mean eye relief? I mean eyebox. I could be more off axis and see reticle and target with the nxs 1 to 4 than the k16i on 1x. Same for fore and aft. I did not test them on full magnification or both at 4x, because it's presumed you're at least reasonably behind the gun if using max mag, and neither felt cramped or touchy on 4 or max power.
Thanks WS6. I see Kahles exil pupil diameter is 9.6mm compared to 16mm on NXS.
Thanks WS6. I see Kahles exil pupil diameter is 9.6mm compared to 16mm on NXS.
I made a videeehooohhh....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDCbAnaRZ3M
Has anyone with an astigmatism found the T2 + magnifier to be better than the T1 + magnifier?
Furbyballer
10-03-16, 05:46
Has anyone with an astigmatism found the T2 + magnifier to be better than the T1 + magnifier?
I have a bad astigmatism and the T2 with magnifier gives me a perfect dot. I can't wait for the new magnifiers to come out with the diopter adjustment.
I made a videeehooohhh....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDCbAnaRZ3MNice. I could not watch with sound but could tell the difference. It's a good point that the Eye box is very important on any 1X that will be used up close.
I have a bad astigmatism and the T2 with magnifier gives me a perfect dot. I can't wait for the new magnifiers to come out with the diopter adjustment.
I just got in the Eotech G33 magnifier, which has a diopter.
I've tried it behind my T1 and M4s.
The T1 looks like a dot with a comet tail, and the M4s looks like a starburst.
Coal Dragger
10-03-16, 16:58
Nice. I could not watch with sound but could tell the difference. It's a good point that the Eye box is very important on any 1X that will be used up close.
So far my experience with mine is that I am not really much slower up close running the Nightforce NXS 1-4×24 than I am running my old Aimpoint Comp M2. Once distances go past about 50 yards I think I'm a bit quicker with the NXS, past 100 yards the NXS stomps all over the red dot for ease of use. Even at 1× as distances increase for some reason, for my eyes, that crisp etched reticle is quicker and more accurate for me.
For what I like to use my carbine for the low power variable is more versatile than a red dot with magnifier.
I'd still love to try a Leupold D-EVO with a red dot but the cost is prohibitive right now.
I just got in the Eotech G33 magnifier, which has a diopter.
I've tried it behind my T1 and M4s.
The T1 looks like a dot with a comet tail, and the M4s looks like a starburst.
I see the same thing with the G33, Aimpoint and Vortex magnifiers.
has anyone tried the 1-4 SWFA? if you have which one? FFP o SFP? please be blunt.
The SWFA that I looked through was pretty good. I believe it was the FFP.
fallenromeo
10-14-16, 14:23
Botach has the steiner P4xi for 479 right now. I know that Botach has had some issue in the past, but for that price, I think it is worth a shot waiting for them for a little while
ExplorinInTheWoods
10-20-16, 06:41
I vote anything Trijicon, Vortex strike eagle has an attractive price but I'm not crazy about the reticle, the glass isn't as nice as the razor but more affordable.
Furbyballer
10-20-16, 10:28
Botach has the steiner P4xi for 479 right now. I know that Botach has had some issue in the past, but for that price, I think it is worth a shot waiting for them for a little while
I bit on that deal. Now we wait the 3 weeks for botach to ship our orders. They are slow, but ive always got what I ordered eventually.
fallenromeo
10-20-16, 16:12
I bit on that deal. Now we wait the 3 weeks for botach to ship our orders. They are slow, but ive always got what I ordered eventually.
I bought one also. Now we play the waiting game.
has anyone tried the 1-4 SWFA? if you have which one? FFP o SFP? please be blunt.
I have the SWFA 1-4x24. I think it is a great scope for the money. It is no Kahles, but the glass is clear, and I like the reticle. It feels like a quality scope, and performs well. I sighted in recently, and I am happy with it.
Here's a good thread on it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?95839-SWFA-SS-1-4X24-Opinions&highlight=swfa
I bit on that deal. Now we wait the 3 weeks for botach to ship our orders. They are slow, but ive always got what I ordered eventually.
I bought one also. Now we play the waiting game.
Did they ship them out yet? They still have them for 479 with a throw lever. Tempted to bite
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Furbyballer
11-07-16, 13:16
Did they ship them out yet? They still have them for 479 with a throw lever. Tempted to bite
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I shot 300 rounds through it yesterday. My scope arrived in great shape and so far, IMO, its the best value for performance scope on the market right now. However, I do not have enough time or rounds behind it, obviously, to comment on ruggedness and reliability. Were the turrets squishy? Meh, maybe a little but definitely useable. The illumination is excellent, like aimpoint excellent. The glass is stupid clear and the reticle is clear and easy to use. For reference, I own an accupower 1-4, nightforce 1-4, and USO 1-4. In terms of glass clarity its right up there with my NF and USO.
fallenromeo
11-07-16, 15:13
Did they ship them out yet? They still have them for 479 with a throw lever. Tempted to bite
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I had mine in about a week after I bought it. I haven't had a chance to hit the range yet with it, but they were actually pretty quick to ship it out considering it was over a holiday weekend.
I shot 300 rounds through it yesterday. My scope arrived in great shape and so far, IMO, its the best value for performance scope on the market right now. However, I do not have enough time or rounds behind it, obviously, to comment on ruggedness and reliability. Were the turrets squishy? Meh, maybe a little but definitely useable. The illumination is excellent, like aimpoint excellent. The glass is stupid clear and the reticle is clear and easy to use. For reference, I own an accupower 1-4, nightforce 1-4, and USO 1-4. In terms of glass clarity its right up there with my NF and USO.
That's good to hear, I've been trying to justify spending the money on an accupower, but I just can't bring myself to it. But the Steiner has my attention way more than the accupower now
I had mine in about a week after I bought it. I haven't had a chance to hit the range yet with it, but they were actually pretty quick to ship it out considering it was over a holiday weekend.
Wow, Botach stepping it up!
So now I have time behind the following LPV optics: VCOG, Kahles K16i, Vortex Razor, and now a Nightforce 1-4. I'm going to have to call the Vortex the winner. I have owned all but the Vortex and shot all of them. I only own the Nightforce currently, but I'll probably sell it by the end of next season to fund a Vortex.
For astigmatism, I run a DD fixed sight with the small aperture in order to focus the dot. As long as cheek weld and eye alignment stay constant, the dot is very sharp and the aperture unobtrusive.
How come no one mention new eotech vudu? On paper it sounds like a winner, especially at 1x ...you got a authentic red circular dot reticle...
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How come no one mention new eotech vudu? On paper it sounds like a winner, especially at 1x ...you got a authentic red circular dot reticle...
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Don't think they have been released yet. Reports of the test samples were that the illumination was lacking, which is pretty typical with the type of 2 for 1 reticle it has.
So now I have time behind the following LPV optics: VCOG, Kahles K16i, Vortex Razor, and now a Nightforce 1-4. I'm going to have to call the Vortex the winner. I have owned all but the Vortex and shot all of them. I only own the Nightforce currently, but I'll probably sell it by the end of next season to fund a Vortex.
For astigmatism, I run a DD fixed sight with the small aperture in order to focus the dot. As long as cheek weld and eye alignment stay constant, the dot is very sharp and the aperture unobtrusive.
Why?
Just curious what the vortex does over the kahles.
Don't think they have been released yet. Reports of the test samples were that the illumination was lacking, which is pretty typical with the type of 2 for 1 reticle it has.
It has illumination may be it's not day light bright which I doubt it will..should be plenty bright enough
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