Link to Lucky Gunner short barrel, ballistic gel tests .380, 9mm, .40, .45

[krm375]

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

Does a pretty nice job of compare/contrast many different types of ammo some of the most popular defensive loads are represented with CLEAR ballistic gel video, depth, expansion etc.

NOT the same type of Gel used in FBI testing. They explain their use of the Clear Gel and what the differences are in the article.

[T2C]

Good article.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Molon]

Good article.



Not really. "Clear Ballistics" gel IS NOT the scientific standard for professional terminal ballistic testing.

[mr h]

Not really. "Clear Ballistics" gel IS NOT the scientific standard for professional terminal ballistic testing.

wow...all that detailed work and then used an inferior gel. so why do people continue to use the clear stuff and why is it even available?

[T2C]

Not really. "Clear Ballistics" gel IS NOT the scientific standard for professional terminal ballistic testing.

Do you believe there is a greater or lesser likelihood that a hollow point projectile will expand in clear ballistic gelatin versus 10% ballistic gelatin?

[Velo Dog]

These two videos attempt to compare Clear Ballistics gel vs 10% ordnance gelatin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kjcoFaobeo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pqPBnSYTIc

[Molon]

Do you believe there is a greater or lesser likelihood that a hollow point projectile will expand in clear ballistic gelatin versus 10% ballistic gelatin?



Here’s a quote on the subject matter from an actual expert in the field of terminal ballistics.


"Consistency is important, particularly when discussing results done at different test facilities. For example, if a test performed on the West Coast offers concordant results to one conducted by the FBI BRF on the East Coast, that is a good sign that the lab test procedure is repeatable. If those laboratory results are also found to accurately correlate with data from actual shooting incidents in the real world, that further validates the test protocol.

An example would be Gene Wolberg's analysis of over 150 OIS incidents in San Diego--after accounting for the greater variables in real world shootings, his data set demonstrated that the laboratory findings were almost exactly the same as the laboratory results from both his facility, as well as tests done at SJPD, CHP, LAIR, and FBI BRF.

Note that unlike properly prepared and validated 10% ordnance gel, I am unaware of any testing done which correlates synthetic ballistic test media with actual shooting incident data..."



...

[T2C]

Here’s a quote on the subject matter from an actual expert in the field of terminal ballistics.


"Consistency is important, particularly when discussing results done at different test facilities. For example, if a test performed on the West Coast offers concordant results to one conducted by the FBI BRF on the East Coast, that is a good sign that the lab test procedure is repeatable. If those laboratory results are also found to accurately correlate with data from actual shooting incidents in the real world, that further validates the test protocol.

An example would be Gene Wolberg's analysis of over 150 OIS incidents in San Diego--after accounting for the greater variables in real world shootings, his data set demonstrated that the laboratory findings were almost exactly the same as the laboratory results from both his facility, as well as tests done at SJPD, CHP, LAIR, and FBI BRF.

Note that unlike properly prepared and validated 10% ordnance gel, I am unaware of any testing done which correlates synthetic ballistic test media with actual shooting incident data..."



...

You supported your position with facts, which is much appreciated.

[vicious_cb]

Do you believe there is a greater or lesser likelihood that a hollow point projectile will expand in clear ballistic gelatin versus 10% ballistic gelatin?

Its the penetration figures that won't be accurate with clear ballistics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pqPBnSYTIc

[FishTaco]

Very interesting. The Hornady 175gr critical duty rounds in .40 acted like FMJ's and overpenetrated dramatically with 0 expansion. In fact, they look unfired in the photos. I have about 80 rounds of this. As someone asked, why not use the standard medium?

Waste of time.

[Auto-X Fil]

Very interesting. The Hornady 175gr critical duty rounds in .40 acted like FMJ's and overpenetrated dramatically with 0 expansion. In fact, they look unfired in the photos. I have about 80 rounds of this. As someone asked, why not use the standard medium?

Waste of time.

Actually, they only overpenetrated slightly. The bullets tumbled, and ended up backwards, 20" into the gel. That's actually much better than the MANY bullets that didn't expand or tumble, and went 30". Your Critical Duty is a BB round, and will tend to over-penetrate, but never under-penetrate. That's great, and why I carry CD in my 9mm PPS.

Check out the vaunted 165gr Speer Gold Dot - no expansion, and almost 30" of penetration. I have hundred of rounds of that for my XD-M. Why am I not worried?

1) Underpenetration is the least bad of all failure modes.
2) It was tested with a Glock 27 with 3.4" barrel, but designed for duty guns with 4.5" barrels. That extra velocity will probably result in reliable expansion.

Also, I really like seeing testing in alternate media. Human targets are messy, and while the FBI standard is a wonderful thing to have, seeing bullets perform (or not) in different environments is good data. People want a simple test to say a bullet is good or bad, but it's just not a simple science.

[FishTaco]

I guess that makes sense. The gun I have for these is a 4.7" P250 so I should get a good bump in velocity. Did you mean OVERpenetration is the least bad of all failure modes?