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Augee
10-04-06, 00:32
Hello,

Is it true that the Army is now issuing the GG&G BUIS to units? Any photos of them in combat?

Thanks,
~Augee

Impact
10-04-06, 01:48
I've seen that posted as well on the "other" forum..the Matech were loosing their screws IIRC

mark5pt56
10-04-06, 06:50
What, is this like Stargate where the people can't mention certain things?---like AR15.com:rolleyes:

I've seen a few of the Matech's, haven't seen them loosening

LukeMacGillie
10-04-06, 07:11
What, is this like Stargate where the people can't mention certain things?---like AR15.com:rolleyes:

I've seen a few of the Matech's, haven't seen them loosening

Given the history, we try and just refer to the website named after the Stoner designed weapon produced by Colt as TOS, (the other site)

dukduk
10-04-06, 07:44
never heard of that. one of my boys in an MP company here on bragg has a unit issued troy on his m4 with combat use if you're wondering

he likes the matech better but thats what he got.

Quib
10-04-06, 08:14
What, is this like Stargate where the people can't mention certain things?---like AR15.com:rolleyes:



Boy, if we can’t mention the name……I might just tip-toe out the back door. :D

STLRN
10-04-06, 08:17
I took the Matech off my carbine, the range know kept get getting changed when it would snagged on my gear. There is absolutely no need for range adjustment on back up combat sight.

SinnFéinM1911
10-04-06, 08:20
There are a bunch of units that Issue Troy sights. But that comes out of there own funds and not though the NSN network.


Matechs look like they are build well, but there are rumors of a replacement BUIS for the ones that are breaking for big Army. The reports coming back are that of coming loose and not holding zero.

I think, since its a replacement it does not go for open bid. There is about 2-3 sights they are looking at. Its not a official "program" to change them now, but I have a feeling its around the corner.

Sometimes its not always the best one that choosen, but the most econimical for the SPEC written.

SHIVAN
10-04-06, 09:05
What, is this like Stargate where the people can't mention certain things?---like AR15.com:rolleyes:

Absolutely not. We are not going to stoop to that childish level.

Those who wish to, may refer to AR15.com as they see fit.

Those who wish to make snide references to TOS may do so as well.



ON TOPIC:

I'd be suspect of any claims of GG&G getting a full government retrofit contract.

Here's a hint, all BUIS lose their screws from time to time. Using loctite and visible witness marks should cut down on that though. Sounds like a "training item" not a "gear failure" problem.

Cyclic240B
10-04-06, 11:34
Sounds like a "training item" not a "gear failure" problem.

Same here. Improper procedures used tightening them, and improper tools doing so, and improper use afterwards. That was a way of life in the Infantry I was in. :D

mark5pt56
10-04-06, 12:24
Absolutely not. We are not going to stoop to that childish level.

Those who wish to, may refer to AR15.com as they see fit.

Those who wish to make snide references to TOS may do so as well.

That's cool, I was wondering if it was the case since I've seen this on a few post here.

I understand about keeping things respectful though.

:)

fivepointoh
10-04-06, 13:24
never used a matech but i've heard problems w/ them.

that said i love my GGG MAD BUIS!!! That's probably the next closest low profile BUIS...well and the troy that probably would hold up way better than the matech

SHIVAN
10-04-06, 13:34
never used a matech but i've heard problems w/ them.

that said i love my GGG MAD BUIS!!! That's probably the next closest low profile BUIS...well and the troy that probably would hold up way better than the matech

Firsthand experience is key here. Hearsay, and secondhand Internet stories mean very little.

I've heard of each type of BUIS failing for one reason or another. I've personally had a GG&G Rear A2 BUIS loosen on me, as well as a Troy and an MI.

Why? Used just a tiny drop of loctite, and for whatever reason it rattled loose. Never off the weapon, but loose enough that it would have been useless had I needed it.

I now use a bit more loctite and VISIBLE witness marks. Wish I could take credit for thinking of this very easy practice, but the credit must be given to Pat R. for reminding me/us to do it.

Mojo58
10-04-06, 13:36
What's the background on "Matech". When I first started looking for a BUIS, I came upon this manufacturer. It's my understanding that they are military issue items but I couldn't find much more than that about them. Can anyone give me a brief description of what makes them so good, unique qualities, why soldiers prefer them?

Forest
10-04-06, 13:51
FYI for those using the Matech there is a PS article (issue# 631) on page 61 that covers the problem with the locking bar. They mention a problem during manufacture and how soldiers can get a free replacement locking bar and screw.

dukduk
10-04-06, 15:28
FYI for those using the Matech there is a PS article (issue# 631) on page 61 that covers the problem with the locking bar. They mention a problem during manufacture and how soldiers can get a free replacement locking bar and screw.

forgive my ignorance but what is PS?

mark5pt56
10-04-06, 20:32
preventive service(S)

Forest
10-05-06, 10:51
forgive my ignorance but what is PS?
It's a comic book type magazine that the Army puts out monthly for it's soldiers. It covers preventative maintenance issues for just about every piece of gear the Army issues from Cammel-backs to Tanks and AH-64s to LBEs.

SuicideHz
10-05-06, 12:14
Absolutely not. We are not going to stoop to that childish level.

Those who wish to, may refer to AR15.com as they see fit.

Those who wish to make snide references to TOS may do so as well.



ON TOPIC:

I'd be suspect of any claims of GG&G getting a full government retrofit contract.

Here's a hint, all BUIS lose their screws from time to time. Using loctite and visible witness marks should cut down on that though. Sounds like a "training item" not a "gear failure" problem.

I got into the habit of calling it TOS just to be polite and not mention other "similar" forums here.

Are you saying that we can make snyde comments about AR15.com or that using "TOS" is like making a snyde comment?

SHIVAN
10-05-06, 12:58
Are you saying that we can make snyde comments about AR15.com...

Let your status as a responsible adult be your guide.

If you choose incorrectly, there will be someone along to correct you.:p

SuicideHz
10-05-06, 13:00
I know better than to make snyde comments, just didn't know if "TOS" (as a term) fell into that category.

Harv
10-06-06, 16:52
I agree that an Adjustable BUIS is overkill and just not a mission requirement. I also believe that screws loosening up is not as much a design flaw as it is a training issue for not using Loctite for part of the install.

I would say that KAC was the first Issued sight when the SOPMOD kits came out and he Big Army was still using A2's.

Once the M68CCO and the M4 Carbines began wide spread issue in units like the 82Nd and 101st then the need for a Big Army Issue BUIS was needed. Why MATECH picked up on it, I have no clue.... if I had to guess, it was to meet a requirement some bucket headed procurement officer had for BUIS that was adjustable for Range out to 600 meters (On a 14.5" Carbine no less...:rolleyes: )

Ya know..The ARMS 40 BUIS used to get a bad wrap and a lot of folks would come on these boards and talk about how the sights would "Fly Off" after the locking screw would loosen......

I still run My ARMS 40 (Sorry Pat) and since I followed the directions and degreased the threads and applied Loctite during Installation and follow up with a little PM and some witness marks to check for loose screws, I have never had an issue in the 4 years I have had that BUIS and put thousands of rds thru it....

Amazing what a little diligence and some training will accomplish vs. the "set it and forget it" crowd who think everything should be perfect and all bullets should go thru the same hole all the time, anything made by man, can be broken by him as well..... That's why God gave us the "brain Housing group" in the first place.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if I owned a MATECH sight, I bet I could install it and never have a problem with a "Loose" screw.... .....;)

justbill
10-10-06, 18:59
I'll be the first to admit I don't have any combat experience, let alone using a Matech-equipped M4. But in the ~700-800 rounds I have through my RRA carbine so outfitted, I've had no problems after the initial installation. Even those were minimal. I just checked zero yesterday and it hasn't moved. I personally like the fact that the Matech provides easy, range specific elevation adjustment. "Real steel" is an added plus IMO.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/434940.jpg

Link to a 300k version of this picture: http://www.hunt101.com/img/434940-big.jpg

KevinB
10-10-06, 20:19
I ran a ARMS #40 during one trip to Afghan -- the poo dust on trips made it so it would not flip all the way up (even when blown up prior to a trip with an airhose...)

You could not pay me to use a BIS with just a spring ina dusty environment these days.'


I've run LMT for fixed - a KAC 600m (with the 300 large hole) and a Troy.

I have not yet run KAC new BISII - but handling it it does seem to the nicest thing out there