View Full Version : Man pulled over armed and wearing a hoodie....
And nothing terrible happened because no one acted like an A hole. It's sad this is a "story" but that's the times we live in...
Armed Black Driver Uses Facebook to Support Two Cops Who Pulled Him Over
On October 27, driver Steven Hildreth Jr. was armed and wearing a hoodie when he was pulled over for a broken headlight in Tucson, Arizona.
The officers had to disarm Hildreth because of the close promixity of his Glock to his wallet. After checking his registration and dialoguing with Hildreth, the officers returned his Glock to him, complimented the way he had treated them, and sent him on his way. When Hildreth got home, he returned the compliment by taking to Facebook to point out how reasonable the stop went and how approaching officers with respect instead of divisive language and movements might be the key to more reasonable stops around the country.
Here is how Hildreth described the stop:
So, I’m driving to my office to turn in my weekly paperwork. A headlight is out. I see a Tucson squad vehicle turn around and follow me. I’m already preparing for the stop. The lights go on and I pull over. The officer asks me how I’m doing, and then asks if I have any weapons.
“Yes, sir. I’m a concealed carry permit holder and my weapon is located on my right hip. My wallet is in my back-right pocket.”
The officer explains for his safety and mine, he needs to disarm me for the stop. I understand, and I unlock the vehicle. I explain that I’m running a 7TS ALS holster but from the angle, the second officer can’t unholster it. Lead officer asks me to step out, and I do so slowly. Officer relieves me of my Glock and compliments the X300U… [flashlight I put] on it. He also sees my military ID and I tell him I’m with the National Guard.
Lead officer points out my registration card is out of date but he knows my registration is up to date. He goes back to run my license. I know he’s got me on at least two infractions. I’m thinking of how to pay them.
Officers return with my Glock in an evidence back, locked and cleared. “Because you were cool with us and didn’t give us grief, I’m just going to leave it at a verbal warning. Get that headlight fixed as soon as possible.”
Hildreth stressed the importance of respect—that the respect he showed was the respect he received.
He added:
I’m a black man wearing a hoodie and strapped. According to certain social movements, I shouldn’t be alive right now because the police are allegedly out to kill minorities. Maybe… just maybe… that notion is bunk.
Maybe if you treat police officers with respect, they will do the same to you.
Police officers are people, too. By far and large, most are good people and they’re not out to get you. I’d like to thank those two officers and TPD in general for another professional contact.
We talk so much about the bad apples who shouldn’t be wearing a badge. I’d like to spread the word about an example of men who earned their badges and exemplify what that badge stands for.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/29/armed-black-driver-uses-facebook-support-two-cops-pulled/
I disagree with the officers "having to disarm" him. I've been armed each time I was pulled over after the age of 21 and never once got disarmed. When I was a LEO I didn't disarm anyone with a CPL who told me about it (don't have to inform in WA) on a stop. My response was, with my hand on my Glock, don't show me your's and I won't show you mine and we can both go home tonight.
I was never a fan of maiking someone unholster when the gun is safely holstered. Too much of a chance for a ND that scares everyone.
In Texas, when an LEO traffic stop occurs, when asked for your DL you also required to show them your Concealed Handgun License.
Often times (no, not always) but many times, LEO's won't disarm you, but simply tell you to keep your hand away from your pistol and all will be well.
And, there are times after seeing your DL and CHL, the LEO won't even bother to ask if you're armed, but is assured you're O.K. by virtue of having a CHL.
SilverBullet432
10-31-15, 10:28
Bravo sir, we'll handled:thank_you2:
I disagree with the officers "having to disarm" him. I've been armed each time I was pulled over after the age of 21 and never once got disarmed. When I was a LEO I didn't disarm anyone with a CPL who told me about it (don't have to inform in WA) on a stop. My response was, with my hand on my Glock, don't show me your's and I won't show you mine and we can both go home tonight.
I was never a fan of maiking someone unholster when the gun is safely holstered. Too much of a chance for a ND that scares everyone.
Perhaps SOP for his PD and or state? I think your approach sounds best to me, but not LE. Guns that stay in their holsters make for safest guns in my experience.
I agree with Vandal's point of view, in some jurisdictions disarming a CHL holder for such reasons would be illegal.
However, the officers explained their actions in a restrained manner, apparently disarmed the man safely, realized that they would probably gain the desired result with a warning, made a friend and no one got hurt. Win.
In Texas, when an LEO traffic stop occurs, when asked for your DL you also required to show them your Concealed Handgun License.
I got pulled for 10 over.
I handed over my license, .mil ID, and CCW, and I declared it was on my right hip.
Not even skipping a beat he told me, "Don't show me yours and I won't show mine." I laughed, he relaxed, gave me a warning, and sent me on my way with "Slow down a little, please."
titsonritz
10-31-15, 11:03
And that is how it should go down, except for maybe the disarming part.
SilverBullet432
10-31-15, 11:05
I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as everyone stays cool and on the same page. They're worried for their own safety, can't be too safe these days.
BoringGuy45
10-31-15, 11:29
Most cops want to do the job they signed up for: Keep the community safe and go home at the end of the day. Most of them don't want to do any more paperwork than is absolutely necessary, and most have enough real criminals to deal with and stand to gain nothing from turning a quick in and out encounter into a violent confrontation.
Yeah you don't "have" to disarm anybody legally doing legal things.
Most people who are going to kill you won't tell you they have a gun.
Frankly I wouldn't want to give up my expensive, potentially life ending device to Schmuckatelli so he can drop or shoot himself in the foot with or play with either.
"You're carrying? That's cool. Leave it be and I'll be back with you".
In that situation, I'd prefer for the officer to either remove my gun, or wallet. Due to the close proximity. Action beats reaction and this keeps things at a more relaxed level. I always keep my gun/wallet apart and never had an issue.
Oh is a must declare state. I had a guy ask what and where I was carrying. I always get my 2 licence and registration out in hand and hanging out the window, other hand relaxed out the sunroof. I figured it leaves no doubt where my hands are, I'm relaxed, theyre relaxed and I don't have to dig for anything while theyr'e at my car.
All interactions have been smooth.
titsonritz
10-31-15, 15:34
Personally I'd have my ID in hand by the time the officer was at my window.
I keep my wallet in an open cubby in the center console (what used to be called an ashtray) and my insurance and regulation is on the sun visor.
I'm not opening anything in my car during a traffic stop.
echo5whiskey
10-31-15, 20:37
Steven and I know each other through several mutual friends. He's not upset with the disarm. When everyone starting freaking out about it, he brought up a "Terry search" (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/392/1). He sees it as justifiable since he was, technically, committing a crime (traffic violation). According to what he has said, and what several other in the area have said, it seemed that it was SOP. I'm not claiming to know for sure what they do, that's just what he has told me.
Either way, you should see the flak he's getting from the BLM crowd; calling him a race traitor, saying he faked it for publicity (he's a novelist), saying he was paid off, and saying that he's "not black enough." It's pretty sickening.
Steven and I know each other through several mutual friends. He's not upset with the disarm. When everyone starting freaking out about it, he brought up a "Terry search" (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/392/1). He sees it as justifiable since he was, technically, committing a crime (traffic violation). According to what he has said, and what several other in the area have said, it seemed that it was SOP. I'm not claiming to know for sure what they do, that's just what he has told me.
Either way, you should see the flak he's getting from the BLM crowd; calling him a race traitor, saying he faked it for publicity (he's a novelist), saying he was paid off, and saying that he's "not black enough." It's pretty sickening.
The justification for a Terry frisk centers on the need for articulable facts that would lead a reasonable officer to believe a person is presently armed and dangerous. A traffic stop doesn't give you that from a legal standpoint.
Yeah you don't "have" to disarm anybody legally doing legal things.
Most people who are going to kill you won't tell you they have a gun.
Frankly I wouldn't want to give up my expensive, potentially life ending device to Schmuckatelli so he can drop or shoot himself in the foot with or play with either.
"You're carrying? That's cool. Leave it be and I'll be back with you".
Ha, I prefer schmuckatello and Susie q.
echo5whiskey
11-01-15, 00:10
The justification for a Terry frisk centers on the need for articulable facts that would lead a reasonable officer to believe a person is presently armed and dangerous. A traffic stop doesn't give you that from a legal standpoint.
Fair enough. I know neither their (TPD) training, nor their SOPs. I gave him the benefit of the doubt based on his proximity to the situation. Regardless, it still ended well, and proved a good point.
I carry here under LEOSA (it's complicated). I've been stopped by the local PD, and they didn't feel the need to disarm me. It does seem like it would be the other way around between the two states.
Moose-Knuckle
11-01-15, 02:17
Either way, you should see the flak he's getting from the BLM crowd; calling him a race traitor, saying he faked it for publicity (he's a novelist), saying he was paid off, and saying that he's "not black enough." It's pretty sickening.
I hope he documents all of that and publishes it.
echo5whiskey
11-01-15, 02:27
I hope he documents all of that and publishes it.
I think he's cooking something up.
Nope. This happened in Tucson and there is no state law. In addition you need only tell an officer you are armed, if the weapon is actually concealed. Tucson PD may have an SOP for that, but I would be surprised to be honest. I will ask next time I am down that way.
Under the Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3112 Section D., an officer may take possession during an investigatory stop.
D. A law enforcement officer shall not confiscate or forfeit a weapon that is otherwise lawfully possessed by a permittee whose permit is suspended pursuant to subsection C of this section, except that a law enforcement officer may take temporary custody of a firearm during an investigatory stop of the permittee.
Perhaps SOP for his PD and or state? I think your approach sounds best to me, but not LE. Guns that stay in their holsters make for safest guns in my experience.
Except our legislature has given LE the permission to do so under ARS 31-3112 Section D.
The justification for a Terry frisk centers on the need for articulable facts that would lead a reasonable officer to believe a person is presently armed and dangerous. A traffic stop doesn't give you that from a legal standpoint.
When I drive, I usually keep my wallet on the seat or console. Depending on my mood my pistol is on the seat as well. This negates needless conversation and nonsense. We do not have a duty to notify in AZ unless were are carrying concealed. And because we also have constitutional carry, I don't need to show my permit.
I keep my wallet in an open cubby in the center console (what used to be called an ashtray) and my insurance and regulation is on the sun visor.
I'm not opening anything in my car during a traffic stop.
echo5whiskey
11-01-15, 03:12
Nope. This happened in Tucson and there is no state law. In addition you need only tell an officer you are armed, if the weapon is actually concealed. Tucson PD may have an SOP for that, but I would be surprised to be honest. I will ask next time I am down that way.
He was told it is SOP.
I was hoping you'd pay this thread a visit and add your own insight.
I always have my DL & registration in hand before the cop approaches my window. That way when he asks why I don't have my seatbelt on, I can say I took it off retrieving my wallet. It makes him second guess if he saw me wearing it initially. It's gotten me out of about 98% of potential seatbelt fines.
I've only been asked once if I had any weapons on me when I actually did. I told him it was on my right hip & all he said was "thanks for being honest". Then he preceded to write me a speeding ticket.
Didn't get the additional seatbelt fine though.
I keep my wallet in an open cubby in the center console (what used to be called an ashtray) and my insurance and regulation is on the sun visor.
I'm not opening anything in my car during a traffic stop.
When I drive, I usually keep my wallet on the seat or console. Depending on my mood my pistol is on the seat as well. This negates needless conversation and nonsense. We do not have a duty to notify in AZ unless were are carrying concealed. And because we also have constitutional carry, I don't need to show my permit.
That's only because you guys can't sit on those fat wallets without getting a backache.
Averageman
11-01-15, 07:58
I got pulled over in Arizona while carrying. The Officer said "Just keep it where it is at and we will be fine."
I got stuck in New Mexico on I 10 in a snow storm that added about 4 more hours on to my trip. I was five miles from my destination and must have crossed the center line. Of course it was the Holiday Season and I'm sure he thought he had a DUI on board.
Very Professional and we were both very polite, no harm, no foul and no ticket.
echo5whiskey
11-04-15, 15:17
The backlash I was talking about, in his own words:
www.everyjoe.com/2015/11/04/politics/veteran-harassed-sharing-positive-police-experience/#1
We have a duty to notify when stopped here. I have had several people offer, after informing me they were permit holders, to hand me their firearm. I tell them not to, since most pistols have a tremendously greater risk of going boom when they are handled as opposed to holstered.
I have also used the "Don't show me yours and I won't show you mine." line a few times too. Usually gets a chuckle and hopefully relaxes the person.
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