View Full Version : Carson May Be Finished
Just saw Carson has acknowledged he lied about admission to West Point. From what I can gather, he told people he had been accepted, which was a blatant lie. Apparently he has continued it for yrs. Sucks b/c he was a candidate that mayhave been promising.
Politico
The MSM is all buzzing with it.
Hillary Clinton lied about so very much and this guy lies about one thing and is allegedly finished.
Hillary Clinton lied about so very much and this guy lies about one thing and is allegedly finished.
Rules are different for Republicans
Hillary Clinton lied about so very much and this guy lies about one thing and is allegedly finished.
Double standard should be no surprise.
Link?
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598
So, if he is finished, who do his supporters go to?
Doc Safari
11-06-15, 11:25
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598
So, if he is finished, who do his supporters go to?
To me, Cruz is probably the closest to Carson, and has more balls to boot.
The fight to peel support from him means the other R candidates will, at least behind the scenes, start the machinations against him.
He is most likely finished.
He just got Herman Cained; so to speak.
How in the hell in this day and age where a $25 phone can give you the world's information in 5 seconds do you think you can perpetuate a lie? I mean, it was ironic that the internet gave up the proof that Al Gore did not invent the internet; how do you run a campaign knowing you are more likely than not to be outed??
Doc Safari
11-06-15, 11:29
I know some people don't like Trump but I think he may be the only one that can beat Hillary because he will pull democrats toward him and away from her. For example, I heard a while back that some unions were going to back Trump instead of Hillary.
How in the hell in this day and age where a $25 phone can give you the world's information in 5 seconds do you think you can perpetuate a lie? I mean, it was ironic that the internet gave up the proof that Al Gore did not invent the internet; how do you run a campaign knowing you are more likely than not to be outed??
Agreed. If this pans out as true, and it looks like it is, he did it to himself.
Doc Safari
11-06-15, 11:32
Agreed. If this pans out as true, and it looks like it is, he did it to himself.
Well, you know....I hate to say it but if the guy believes the Egyptian pyramids were grain silos then he's a froot loop and we don't need him anyway.
Well, you know....I hate to say it but if the guy believes the Egyptian pyramids were grain silos then he's a froot loop and we don't need him anyway.
I know, that one really bothered me also. I have been inside several Egyptian pyramids and they for sure had burial chambers.
Well, you know....I hate to say it but if the guy believes the Egyptian pyramids were grain silos then he's a froot loop and we don't need him anyway.
Not disagreeing, but....at what point to we either outright overlook, or throw in the towel over, aberrant behavior? LBJ would drop a deuce with the door open and staff standing outside taking dictation; he would walk around with his dick out. Clinton was fond of, well, we know what he liked. I am sure every candidate/POTUS has "those things" that are aberrant, so serious question: what are we OK overlooking?
BoringGuy45
11-06-15, 13:01
To me, Cruz is probably the closest to Carson, and has more balls to boot.
Yep, plus as an added bonus GWB came out and said that he personally dislikes Cruz. That, believe it or not, can only help Cruz.
Singlestack Wonder
11-06-15, 13:02
Not disagreeing, but....at what point to we either outright overlook, or throw in the towel over, aberrant behavior? LBJ would drop a deuce with the door open and staff standing outside taking dictation; he would walk around with his dick out. Clinton was fond of, well, we know what he liked. I am sure every candidate/POTUS has "those things" that are aberrant, so serious question: what are we OK overlooking?
But they were already elected to office.
This is unbelievable. I thought we finally had one squeaky clean candidate......oh well......
I'm at a point that if it ever came out that Reagan liked murdering newborn kittens and did ecstasy before going on live TV, I wouldn't care anymore.
If democrats get to be godless and immoral, why not Republicans?
Fair is Fair!
titsonritz
11-06-15, 13:08
Hillary Clinton lied about so very much and this guy lies about one thing and is allegedly finished.
Rules are different for Republicans
Double standard should be no surprise.
That bitch lies every time she opens her mouth. The right is held to a higher standard, they should all be.
Everyone has skeletons in their closet. If they don't they are monks. I didn't think Carson could get elected and his 2A support was a little weak. But I like the guy and I still like him, this is a minor lie (unlike Hillary who lies about substantial things daily). Problem is, this is going to have an effect on the whole field.
I don't know which Republican candidate did the opposition research and leaked this, but I wouldn't put it past Trump or Bush.
The fight to peel support from him means the other R candidates will, at least behind the scenes, start the machinations against him.
He is most likely finished.
He just got Herman Cained; so to speak.
Yep. Herman Cain v2.0... this was predicted
That's unfortunate, I liked him. I guess Bush isn't going anywhere now.
Everyone has skeletons in their closet. If they don't they are monks. I didn't think Carson could get elected and his 2A support was a little weak. But I like the guy and I still like him, this is a minor lie (unlike Hillary who lies about substantial things daily). Problem is, this is going to have an effect on the whole field.
I don't know which Republican candidate did the opposition research and leaked this, but I wouldn't put it past Trump or Bush.
Well, I think it's more than a minor lie, but do wonder, given his legitimate history, why in the hell would he lie? He had nothing to lose.
Good point about the leak. Hadn't thought of that.
The entire story is a fraud by Politico. Do alittle investigation yourself.
I am disappointed, but I'm glad it came out now. It also reveals a little about his judgement. Certainly he has thought about that lie in his book when he chose to run for President years after writing it. Did he think that no one would read the book and not fact check it? That indicates this neurosurgeon is a little naive at best. Maybe the grain storage bin Pyramids was another indicator?
Has anybody here read his book? I have not.
KalashniKEV
11-06-15, 13:30
This is unbelievable. I thought we finally had one squeaky clean candidate......oh well......
That's actually the funny part... Carson is a squeaky clean guy despite his attempts to convince the electorate otherwise.
Dude is sticking to his story that he tried to beat his mother to death with a hammer, punched a kid in the head with a lock, stabbed his best friend (who was only saved by his belt buckle...) and the public is just like.... "Yeah, that's a bunch of BS..."
And Carson is like... No, I was straight up gangsta, thug life, y'all feel me? I was Daaaaaaan-juh-russssss...
...and nobody is buying it.
This is totally bizarre. Usually the complete opposite happens in a political campaign.
To me, Cruz is probably the closest to Carson, and has more balls to boot.
It was probably going to be Cruz all along anyway.
KalashniKEV
11-06-15, 13:44
http://i.imgur.com/zTfhCFt.jpg
This is definitely a hit piece by Poltico.
The problem is, regardless of hit piece, blown out of proportion, etc., there will be fallout to his campaign. A weakened candidate is going to be subjected to more intense and frequent attacks and we all know how gullible(be it justified or not)the American public can be. In other words, lots of people are going to see this in the worst possible light(for whatever reason) and Carson's support begins to erode quickly. Doesn't matter if he can get a defense out for the public to hear/read or not. Carson is in a lot of trouble with this.
Well at least he didn't claim to survive sniper fire in Bosnia
This is definitely a hit piece by Poltico.
Go read Limbaugh's transcript for today. He devoted basically the whole day to it. If anything this will probably help Carson.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/ben-carson-campaign-politico-story-saying-westpoint-scholarship-is-a-lie-is-itself-a-lie/
For me, he's stepped on his member enough times now in various ways that I'd be hard pressed to vote for him. Over HC? Yup, I'd still vote for him, but I'd say he's now gone into non electable territory and about to be chewed up and spit out by the media, GOP/Dem machinery, etc, some of it his own making. I think Cruz/Rubio ticket could have a legit chance, unless one or both of them starts compiling enough lose ends and such for the media to grab onto and pull the hanging string 'till it unravels. I really wanted to like Carson...
If anything this will probably help Carson.
There could be a very slim chance to take advantage of the situation by turning it around and making himself look like the victim. However, he will not be given any help from the other candidates or MSM. Exactly the opposite. I believe this may sink his campaign but there is a very small chance he could stand the situation on it's head. Main roadblocks for this are mentioned in earlier posts.
I was actually reconciling with the fact that I was probably going to vote for Carson since he seemed to be the most reasoned and intelligent candidate who could also be Hillary.
Then he got quoted on the news saying he believe "Joseph" built the Egyptian pyramids to store grain. The original clip was about 15 years old but when asked about it on the news, he stated that he still believes it is a possibility.
And so I don't think I can vote for Carson any longer. I knew he was religious, didn't care. I didn't know he believed in blatantly stupid shit.
BoringGuy45
11-06-15, 14:56
I was actually reconciling with the fact that I was probably going to vote for Carson since he seemed to be the most reasoned and intelligent candidate who could also be Hillary.
Then he got quoted on the news saying he believe "Joseph" built the Egyptian pyramids to store grain. The original clip was about 15 years old but when asked about it on the news, he stated that he still believes it is a possibility.
And so I don't think I can vote for Carson any longer. I knew he was religious, didn't care. I didn't know he believed in blatantly stupid shit.
He's a 7th Day Adventist. They have some bizarre beliefs that are very much at odds with much of mainstream Christianity and with reality itself. A LOT of cults were (are) offshoots of the 7th Day Adventists, including the Branch Davidians and the People's Temple.
I was actually reconciling with the fact that I was probably going to vote for Carson since he seemed to be the most reasoned and intelligent candidate who could also be Hillary.
Then he got quoted on the news saying he believe "Joseph" built the Egyptian pyramids to store grain. The original clip was about 15 years old but when asked about it on the news, he stated that he still believes it is a possibility.
And so I don't think I can vote for Carson any longer. I knew he was religious, didn't care. I didn't know he believed in blatantly stupid shit.
Hence my comments above. It was an easy save to simply say it was a theory of a impressionable young man and he was clearly wrong. Boom, gone, at least for me. That he doubled down on the stupid, along with various other issues coming up clearly not simply the liberal left making chit up, says he's toast.
SilverBullet432
11-06-15, 16:13
I don't really care. It's not like he walked around in dress blues and told everyone he was a SPECNITEOPSELITE warrior.
He's a 7th Day Adventist. They have some bizarre beliefs that are very much at odds with much of mainstream Christianity and with reality itself. A LOT of cults were (are) offshoots of the 7th Day Adventists, including the Branch Davidians and the People's Temple.
And quite honestly, if he simply "believed" that but didn't double down by saying it out loud I still might have able to get behind him. It's a lot like objecting to abortion but not stating any views on the record. If I were somehow President, there are a lot of personal views and beliefs I hold that I'd never try and make into policy. But by going "on the record" you make them an issue.
Reagan was pretty religious, and I'm sure if you pressed him, he'd probably state he believed the literal story of Noah, but I'm also sure he wouldn't do it "on the record" for obvious reasons. If Carson would have said "I have my own personal beliefs but I don't want to make them part of my campaign or Presidency", I would have credited him with the ability to separate the two and I would have been able to vote for him if he won the primary.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/06/politico-shock-claim-carson-admits-fabricating-west-point-scholarship/
At no point, however, did Carson say he applied to West Point in the first place. In fact, in Gifted Hands itself, Carson writes, “An ironic situation faced me in the fall of 1968, for most of the top colleges in the country had contacted me with offers and enducements [sic]. However, each college required a ten-dollar non-returnable entrance fee sent with the application. I had exactly ten dollars, so I could apply only to one.” As Dr. Carson wrote on Facebook in August, as Dave Weigel of The Washington Post reports, that one school was Yale.
In other words, Carson never lied about applying to West Point. But did he lie about receiving a full scholarship offer? No, he didn’t. That’s because West Point doesn’t offer “full scholarships” in the technical sense: tuition is covered so long as you commit to military service afterward. What happened, according to Carson, was simple: allies of West Point attempted to recruit Carson, and told him tuition would be covered. Carson naturally assumed, without checking, that this meant a “full scholarship,” as it would at virtually any other college.
also it is the politico a hard core left mag that will like the left LIE about anything and not care
its like listening to some of those alien guys and saying OH NO aliens live among us its true
Looks like Carson is ''flaming out'' like everything else from Detroit. Kwame Kilpatrick, bankruptcy, Lions Football and a host of past corrupt politicians to name just a few.
new article looks like politico has changed what they said and changed the headline !!
OH the left attack machine bit off more than it can chew and hope he sues them for damages big time
new article looks like politico has changed what they said and changed the headline !!
OH the left attack machine bit off more than it can chew and hope he sues them for damages big time
From the updated Politico link:
The Carson campaign pushed back against POLITICO’s story after its publication, with Carson himself telling Christian Broadcasting Network’s “The Brody File” that the media “will go through all lengths trying to discredit me.” According to a tweet from the show, Carson said, of the mainstream media, “they’ll ask my kindergarten teacher, ‘did I ever wet my pants.’”
The concession from Carson’s campaign comes as serious questions about other points of fact in Carson’s personal narrative are questioned, including the seminal episode in which he claimed to have attempted to stab a close friend. Similarly, details have emerged that cast doubt on the nature of Carson’s encounter with one of the most prominent military men of that era.
WickedWillis
11-06-15, 17:48
Left's mudslinging at it's finest. I would be never vote for Carson, but look at this shit.
He never said he lied, he agreed he did not formally apply or received a USMA appt.
This is very different.
I have direct visibility to USMA recruiting and Appt process.
It is very likely he was heavily recruited and promised a slot. They have special diversity focused recruiters and he would have been a plum pick.
That process includes "Letter of Assurance" which states they are reserving a slot pending completion of an application and receiving a congressional nomination. Which is almost automatic for LOA recipients.
There is also a letter of encouragement, which is less binding, but still says pretty much if you apply, meet minimum requirements, etc, we will offer you an appointment.
Both LOA and LOE for with his narrative, and are probably what happened.
Remember, he went to Yale instead. I guarantee as a ROTC member + under represented minority + plus grades + clean background he was being recruited hard at that time, probably by a General.
ditto :) I want the warrior in office carson is not a warrior by any means
seems like a great doc and if I had to have surgery as he does it would be him but to protect and run our country not my choice either
Left's mudslinging at it's finest. I would be never vote for Carson, but look at this shit.
Averageman
11-06-15, 18:03
I don't care what his religious beliefs are, I don't care about the pyramid thing and I am going to give him a pass because your religion is yours and he had the guts to come out and tell you about them rather than hide them.
I sincerely do not believe his religion will cause him to do harm to this country.
Now Care to see if anyone in the media has the guts to dig in to Clinton's past and start slinging mud? Lets get real, if he wasn't a threat this wouldn't be happening.
Hell the MSM certainly hasn't asked for Obama's school records and he didn't come out with a birth certificate until he was POTUS for two years for Gods sake.
PatrioticDisorder
11-06-15, 18:06
I predict Carson's numbers will continue to rise as a result of this attempted & failed smear.
KalashniKEV
11-06-15, 18:17
I have direct visibility to USMA recruiting and Appt process.
Do you know Theresa Brinkerhoff, USMA spokesperson?
She kind of left him out there... revealing that they had no records of him at all.
I think you're reaching pretty far with the assumption that an LOA/LOE happened, but we'll see in the coming days if he produces one or admits the lie.
This is a pretty big deal.
ditto :) I want the warrior in office carson is not a warrior by any means...
Are you sure?
He tried to kill his Mom with a hammer and stabbed his best friend in the belt buckle area... that's straight up berserker!!!1!
hahahaha yeah maybe he is the warrior pull off that mask and see what we have
he did mention about peeling peoples skin off there heads :)
Are you sure?
He tried to kill his Mom with a hammer and stabbed his best friend in the belt buckle area... that's straight up berserker!!!1!
I don't care what his religious beliefs are, I don't care about the pyramid thing and I am going to give him a pass because your religion is yours and he had the guts to come out and tell you about them rather than hide them.
I don't think he should hide his beliefs, but someone who is trying to be President, needs to know when to say "that is a private matter."
If John Moses Browning was running for President, and he started talking about Magic Mormon Underwear, I would NOT be able to vote for John Browning and I have more respect for Browning than most humans who have ever lived. To have a person actually believe clothing with special markings protects them from harm or evil means they are very susceptible to believing virtually anything and I don't want that person engaged in running or defending the country.
Do you know Theresa Brinkerhoff, USMA spokesperson?
She kind of left him out there... revealing that they had no records of him at all.
I think you're reaching pretty far with the assumption that an LOA/LOE happened, but we'll see in the coming days if he produces one or admits the lie.
This is a pretty big deal.
If he received an LOA they would have records, for sure. This was probably pre computer days.
But I have personally seen RC's (regional commanders/directors) recruit in fashion very similar to his narrative. But these are normally Majors. Dir of admissions is a LTC or COL. Comms or Supe would be generals, and would not be unrealistic for them to meet with highly desirable recruits on a visit.
So who knows. One thing for sure... He would have been on their radar, and a highly desirable recruit. Especially back then.
There are special nominations available for JROTC, etc.
I have met the Director of USMA admissions, and worked with multiple RCs for USMA and USNA. So do not know that spokesperson, but do know others. Even briefly met both recent Supes and a couple of Comms at different times, not that it matters.
Point being, my son was not recruited hard, and I have no "hooks". Yet that level of involvement occurs (COL/GEN). My son did receive an LOA, so that aspect I know exactly how it works.
It seams like they got what they were going after.
People going against him.
Did he say he went to school there or that he was offered a scholarship and that wasn't true?
Seems like a very small exaggeration that was outed. From just the looks of this thread it seemed to work.
Also the way I understand it was in a book from way before he was a presidential candidate.
Averageman
11-06-15, 19:15
I don't think he should hide his beliefs, but someone who is trying to be President, needs to know when to say "that is a private matter."
If John Moses Browning was running for President, and he started talking about Magic Mormon Underwear, I would NOT be able to vote for John Browning and I have more respect for Browning than most humans who have ever lived. To have a person actually believe clothing with special markings protects them from harm or evil means they are very susceptible to believing virtually anything and I don't want that person engaged in running or defending the country.
I don't know about that, I grew up in a house full of Mormons, served with a lot of LDS Soldiers and never had a real issue with any of them.
I would imagine that "Magic Underwear" or not they are no more or less goofy than most of us when it comes down to how their religion affects their jobs.
Besides Mitt Romney, Harry Reid was/still is a Mormon, I'm not sure how you could have to more diametrically opposed (for the most part) view points on how this country should be run from those two guys.
I don't give religious people a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" for the most part. If you however are living what you preach you have a bit of my respect. If I see you doing the hard things the right way because that is what your religion taught you, I'm pretty respectful of that.
I am however very suspicious of folks who suddenly become religious because it somehow benefits them in the here and now.
We could come back to the fact that no one on the Progressive side is being called out or even questioned if they have any religion or religious beliefs, wonder why?
I don't know about that, I grew up in a house full of Mormons, served with a lot of LDS Soldiers and never had a real issue with any of them.
I would imagine that "Magic Underwear" or not they are no more or less goofy than most of us when it comes down to how their religion affects their jobs.
Besides Mitt Romney, Harry Reid was/still is a Mormon, I'm not sure how you could have to more diametrically opposed (for the most part) view points on how this country should be run from those two guys.
I don't give religious people a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" for the most part. If you however are living what you preach you have a bit of my respect. If I see you doing the hard things the right way because that is what your religion taught you, I'm pretty respectful of that.
I am however very suspicious of folks who suddenly become religious because it somehow benefits them in the here and now.
We could come back to the fact that no one on the Progressive side is being called out or even questioned if they have any religion or religious beliefs, wonder why?
That's kinda my point. I too know LOTS of Mormons who are perfectly normal, except for their determination to always be polite...even when somebody is being an asshole. I have zero problem with their chosen religion, even if I find the whole founding story completely unlikely. I wouldn't even have a problem with them if they wore "temple garments" in the practice of their religion. I honestly wouldn't care.
I would begin to have a problem if they genuinely "believed" temple garments protect them from harm and evil, I would have a bigger problem if they espoused that belief and were hoping to become President.
It seams like they got what they were going after.
People going against him.
Did he say he went to school there or that he was offered a scholarship and that wasn't true?
Seems like a very small exaggeration that was outed. From just the looks of this thread it seemed to work.
Also the way I understand it was in a book from way before he was a presidential candidate.
I don't think too many here actually care about "scholarshipgate." Carson was going to have problems anyway given his views on abortion and homosexuals. It is going to be his main Achilles heel if he actually gets the nomination and runs against Clinton.
Hillary will wrap herself in a pride flag and parrot the mantra "a woman's absolute right to choose."
CNN has this:
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/media/ben-carson-politico-west-point/index.html
Politico has backed down, and apparently the "west point has no record" is literally the fact that West Point does not keep records on those who did not receive an appointment and attend.
This is a Cain/Thomas type attack. Always happens when a black conservative starts to build steam. I still fully expect an unknown woman to come out with unprovable but damaging allegations.
Young chicks might go for Hillary, but older birds HATE her. I never heard a gaggle of 50 year old hens drop C bombs like that at the doc's waiting room, like EVER.
KalashniKEV
11-06-15, 23:25
...apparently the "west point has no record" is literally the fact that West Point does not keep records on those who did not receive an appointment and attend.
He's digging himself deeper...
"Carson acknowledged Friday that he was never offered a full scholarship to West Point, and sought to clarify that he had instead been given an informal offer or "nomination" to attend West Point."
There are two types of nominations, the Congressional Nomination and the Service-Connected Nomination.
I hope he has a piece of paper signed by a member of Congress... since we know he has no service.
I know dudes are pulling for him on here, but certain shit you just-don't-do. Carson crossed the line with this, and I'm almost positive his thug life story is just more of the same horse shit. He should apologize and bow out.
Now, the question is... who gets his votes?
Since a lot of his support was from the anti-establishment camp, I see a bump coming for Trumpasaurus Rex.
Young chicks might go for Hillary, but older birds HATE her. I never heard a gaggle of 50 year old hens drop C bombs like that at the doc's waiting room, like EVER.
Some older birds hate her. But I have heard PLENTY of gray hairs simply gush about her and how she is the only one who would defend women's rights, how it's time to FINALLY have a woman President, etc. etc. Then there are the boomer bitches who think she is some kind of GOD.
And if Hillary is able to run on the "Must Defend Roe V. Wade" issue, you will be amazed how many will fall into line who would otherwise not support Hillary.
He's digging himself deeper...
"Carson acknowledged Friday that he was never offered a full scholarship to West Point, and sought to clarify that he had instead been given an informal offer or "nomination" to attend West Point."
I hope he has a piece of paper signed by a member of Congress... since we know he has no service.
I know dudes are pulling for him on here, but certain shit you just-don't-do. Carson crossed the line with this, and I'm almost positive his thug life story is just more of the same horse shit. He should apologize and bow out.
Now, the question is... who gets his votes?
Since a lot of his support was from the anti-establishment camp, I see a bump coming for Trumpasaurus Rex.
I don't know how the process works, but from the explanation I get, he never took it that far to have a signed letter. They said they wanted him, he thought about it and never started the process. What am I missing?
He's not my #1 guy right now, but this seems cut and dry assassination attempt by the left, like gwb away situation.
I'm confused.
America is "tired of hearing about damn email" but we're gonna bury Carson because he thought about maybe putting in for West Point but didn't follow through with it.
Holy shit. How many of us were 19 or 20 and had some wild ideas about what we wanted to do?
Maybe he put in an app....that was a while ago. He didn't get in and I doubt they have any records because given his age this was before computers. He ultimately didn't go. He never said he went.
Shit, there is AUDIO pf Hillary the Feminist laughing about getting a rapist an easy sentence.
F--k these people.
Even the WSJ is on the story:
Ben Carson’s Past Faces Deeper Questions
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ben-carsons-past-faces-deeper-questions-1446861864
When you click on the link you will probably only get the first few sentences of the story. I have found a workaround to this to be simply putting the title of the story in Google and click on it there and I get the full story.
I hope he has a piece of paper signed by a member of Congress... since we know he has no service.
The idea there are only two types of noms is also totally wrong, there is the vice presidential nominee, supe's nom, rotc, etc.
But the LOA/LOE process takes place before the nomination process. It's an offer contingent on applying, passing CFA, getting a nom of some form, and passing the medical.
It is entirely possible he had a verbal or written offer and never interacted with his congressman.
Yes, He would have had to apply to USMA and get on a nomination slate somehow to formally receive an appt, but he never said he went that far.
I do agree that his wording is non-precise and that is not helping.
My read from his narrative is that his jROTC commander nominated him for one of the ROTC nom slots and that's what he is referring to.
I don't think too many here actually care about "scholarshipgate." Carson was going to have problems anyway given his views on abortion and homosexuals. It is going to be his main Achilles heel if he actually gets the nomination and runs against Clinton.
Hillary will wrap herself in a pride flag and parrot the mantra "a woman's absolute right to choose."
I could care less and consider that one minor compared to other stuff accumulating. The connection to MLM company he denies, various statements that chipped away at his credibility, critical thinking skills, connection to reality, etc has hit the tipping point for me. He'd get shredded bu the politico machine.
KalashniKEV
11-07-15, 07:12
I don't know how the process works...What am I missing?
What's missing is the process. (It's OK... apparently Carson doesn't get it either... which is why he should just shut up about it and stop digging deeper)
His book says he had dinner with Westmoreland and walked away with "a West Point Scholarship."
For those who have knowledge and understand the process, that's obvious BS.
There is no "scholarship" and it aint as simple as that.
He's toast unless he can produce some documentation.
Like with Herman Cain, I'm not a Carson fan. It's his past statements on policy that I take issue with. However, like WillBrink said these little chips in his credibility only further alienate me from him.
When the primary comes to TN I will vote for Ted Cruz. I predict he will win most of the South.
BoringGuy45
11-07-15, 07:48
Carson's allure is based on one thing and one thing alone: He's not a politician. The same deal with Trump. If Carson had spent one day in an elected office anywhere, he wouldn't be given the time of day. We're understandably tired of the career politicians and want a guy who hasn't fallen prey to the corruption of office. But after reading Carson's past statements at On The Issues (http://ontheissues.org/Ben_Carson.htm), I question how connected with reality he is and whether he's the outsider we want. If he's got some integrity issues in his past as well, as Trump and Fiorina have, I strongly question how much better any of them would actually be than any of the career politicians they're running against.
Like with Herman Cain, I'm not a Carson fan. It's his past statements on policy that I take issue with. However, like WillBrink said these little chips in his credibility only further alienate me from him.
When the primary comes to TN I will vote for Ted Cruz. I predict he will win most of the South.
In a debate, Cruz can hold his own well, does not appear to have major skeletons as of yet, and if he picked a running mate that helped vs hurt his efforts, could have a legit chance. Some of his positions on major issues are not in line with my own, but I'd vote for him over HC easily at this point.
Carson's allure is based on one thing and one thing alone: He's not a politician. The same deal with Trump. If Carson had spent one day in an elected office anywhere, he wouldn't be given the time of day. We're understandably tired of the career politicians and want a guy who hasn't fallen prey to the corruption of office. But after reading Carson's past statements at On The Issues (http://ontheissues.org/Ben_Carson.htm), I question how connected with reality he is and whether he's the outsider we want. If he's got some integrity issues in his past as well, as Trump and Fiorina have, I strongly question how much better any of them would actually be than any of the career politicians they're running against.
In agreement 100%.
In a debate, Cruz can hold his own well, does not appear to have major skeletons as of yet, and if he picked a running mate that helped vs hurt his efforts, could have a legit chance. Some of his positions on major issues are not in line with my own, but I'd vote for him over HC easily at this point.
I've seen interviews with him and he talks "normal", i.e. he does well. It's just his persona when giving speeches that comes across like an evangelical tele-preacher. I know he has a strong religious background and I'm fine with that. It's just that smarmy way he does speeches (not interviews) turns off a lot of the brain-dead out there who don't listen to what he says but how he says it.
Carson supports the Obamatrade deal. It's over 2 million words and 3X as long as the Bible. Think anyone's actually read it who supports it?
Averageman
11-07-15, 08:56
I've seen interviews with him and he talks "normal", i.e. he does well. It's just his persona when giving speeches that comes across like an evangelical tele-preacher. I know he has a strong religious background and I'm fine with that. It's just that smarmy way he does speeches (not interviews) turns off a lot of the brain-dead out there who don't listen to what he says but how he says it.
Very astute observation. I think his message is good, he just really has a way of delivering it in a manner that is annoying.
I've seen interviews with him and he talks "normal", i.e. he does well. It's just his persona when giving speeches that comes across like an evangelical tele-preacher. I know he has a strong religious background and I'm fine with that. It's just that smarmy way he does speeches (not interviews) turns off a lot of the brain-dead out there who don't listen to what he says but how he says it.
Totally agree. That is at least something he can learn to tone down. Whether he chooses to do so (on advice from some adviser, focus group, etc) is another issue. It's interesting to note that' often how I feel about HC. It's not always what she says, but how she says it that makes my skin crawl. She comes off as so totally pretentious, disingenuous, clueless, and narcissistic, I can't even hear what she's saying most of the time.
I've seen interviews with him and he talks "normal", i.e. he does well. It's just his persona when giving speeches that comes across like an evangelical tele-preacher. I know he has a strong religious background and I'm fine with that. It's just that smarmy way he does speeches (not interviews) turns off a lot of the brain-dead out there who don't listen to what he says but how he says it.
Maybe for everyone else. My actual problem with him is espousing nonsense like Joseph built the pyramids. I don't care what your demeanor or speech style is when you say absolute bizarre nonsense like that, there is no way to make it reasonable.
Ronald Reagan in his best delivery, couldn't sell it as a rational thought.
Would you feel better if he said Pyramids were proof that slavery gets shit done? :jester:
KalashniKEV
11-07-15, 14:19
Would you feel better if he said Pyramids were proof that slavery gets shit done?
...but would that make them good or bad, because Obamacare is the worst thing since Slavery... and the pyramids were built by Joseph, who oversaw their construction while wearing his stylin' jacket?
Dude lied about getting into USMA.
He claims he tried to go hammer time on his mom's skull.
He was a salesman and spokesperson for a snake oil cancer treatment/ autism treatment/ cure-all.
He plagiarized large passages of his book "America the Beautiful" verbatim from a kook-site called "Socialismsucks.net"
He wants Predator/ Reaper strikes inside CONUS targeting cross border smuggling routes.
He claims he stabbed his best friend in the belt buckle area.
He was voted "most honest student" in his Perceptions 301 class, and they took his picture for the paper... Problem- There has never been a class called "Perceptions 301" at Yale... and there is no picture.
I'll bet if you asked him, he'd probably tell you with a straight face that FireClean was rebranded Crisco.
This dude should just go kill himself.
Would you feel better if he said Pyramids were proof that slavery gets shit done? :jester:
Face/Palm........
Maybe for everyone else. My actual problem with him is espousing nonsense like Joseph built the pyramids. I don't care what your demeanor or speech style is when you say absolute bizarre nonsense like that, there is no way to make it reasonable.
Ronald Reagan in his best delivery, couldn't sell it as a rational thought.
This coming from the guy who I recall reading in another thread a while back suggesting that Jeb was a decent choice!
(I like you Steyr, not tying to pick a fight but I couldn't resist!)
He never said he lied, he agreed he did not formally apply or received a USMA appt.
This is very different.
I have direct visibility to USMA recruiting and Appt process.
It is very likely he was heavily recruited and promised a slot. They have special diversity focused recruiters and he would have been a plum pick.
That process includes "Letter of Assurance" which states they are reserving a slot pending completion of an application and receiving a congressional nomination. Which is almost automatic for LOA recipients.
There is also a letter of encouragement, which is less binding, but still says pretty much if you apply, meet minimum requirements, etc, we will offer you an appointment.
Both LOA and LOE for with his narrative, and are probably what happened.
Remember, he went to Yale instead. I guarantee as a ROTC member + under represented minority + plus grades + clean background he was being recruited hard at that time, probably by a General.
Pinzgauer, this is right on the money. I worked for almost 10 years in the Admissions Department for the U.S. Air Force Academy and have worked hand in hand with admissions officials from all five service academies. A few things:
1. JROTC dets have direct nominations, so the top cadets from that program don't need to apply to their U.S. Senator, Congressman or the Vice President for a nomination.
2. Academically qualified diverse (minority) students are highly sought after. West Point in particular is very aggressive about recruiting these kids in the attempt to get the jump on the other academies and ivy league schools. Pinzgauer mentioned the "Letter of Assurance." West Points sends out hundreds of these letters saying essentially, "if you apply, you're in."
3. With these qualified diverse students it is not at all uncommon for the O-5 Director of Admissions, the 1 Star Commandant of Cadets, the 1 Star Dean of Faculty or even the 3 Star Superintendent to fly to Chicago, Detroit, LA and other major metropolitan areas for the express purpose of meeting these kids.
4. Saying it's not a scholarship is really splitting hairs. What do people call it when you get 4 years of college paid for? Most call it a scholarship, I know I do. Yes, technically it isn't a scholarship, but when you call it a "four year all expense paid education/training program, which upon completion, awards a bachelors of science degree and a commission as an O-1" 99.9% of folks have no idea what you're talking about. Call it a four year full ride scholarship and people know what you're talking about. This is from the official USAFA Appointment presentation speech:
IT IS MY PLEASURE TODAY TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AND THE DIRECTOR OF ADMISSIONS OF THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY TO PRESENT (APPOINTEE NAME) WITH AN AIR FORCE ACADEMY APPOINTMENT. THIS APPOINTMENT IS EQUIVALENT TO BEING OFFERED A FULL 4-YEAR SCHOLARSHIP TO A TOP TIER UNIVERSITY...
I have met with hundreds of high school students and have litterally said to kids with qualifications similar to a young Ben Carson, "A full ride scholarship the the Air Force Academy is yours, if you want it." That didn't mean that I was giving him a scholarship right than. The translation is, based your resume I know you'll get an Appointment. If you want the Appointment, all you have to do is apply."
The piece in Politico shows how just how retarded the liberal media truly is. Of course what Carson said about the Pyramids is pretty retarded too.
Pinzgauer, this is right on the money. I worked for almost 10 years in the Admissions Department for the U.S. Air Force Academy and have worked hand in hand with admissions officials from all five service academies. A few things:
1. JROTC dets have direct nominations, so the top cadets from that program don't need to apply to their U.S. Senator, Congressman or the Vice President for a nomination.
2. Academically qualified diverse (minority) students are highly sought after. West Point in particular is very aggressive about recruiting these kids in the attempt to get the jump on the other academies and ivy league schools. Pinzgauer mentioned the "Letter of Assurance." West Points sends out hundreds of these letters saying essentially, "if you apply, you're in."
3. With these qualified diverse students it is not at all uncommon for the O-5 Director of Admissions, the 1 Star Commandant of Cadets, the 1 Star Dean of Faculty or even the 3 Star Superintendent to fly to Chicago, Detroit, LA and other major metropolitan areas for the express purpose of meeting these kids.
4. Saying it's not a scholarship is really splitting hairs. What do people call it when you get 4 years of college paid for? Most call it a scholarship, I know I do. Yes, technically it isn't a scholarship, but when you call it a "four year all expense paid education/training program, which upon completion, awards a bachelors of science degree and a commission as an O-1" 99.9% of folks have no idea what you're talking about. Call it a four year full ride scholarship and people know what you're talking about. This is from the official USAFA Appointment presentation speech:
IT IS MY PLEASURE TODAY TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AND THE DIRECTOR OF ADMISSIONS OF THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY TO PRESENT (APPOINTEE NAME) WITH AN AIR FORCE ACADEMY APPOINTMENT. THIS APPOINTMENT IS EQUIVALENT TO BEING OFFERED A FULL 4-YEAR SCHOLARSHIP TO A TOP TIER UNIVERSITY...
I have met with hundreds of high school students and have litterally said to kids with qualifications similar to a young Ben Carson, "A full ride scholarship the the Air Force Academy is yours, if you want it." That didn't mean that I was giving him a scholarship right than. The translation is, based your resume I know you'll get an Appointment. If you want the Appointment, all you have to do is apply."
The piece in Politico shows how just how retarded the liberal media truly is. Of course what Carson said about the Pyramids is pretty retarded too.
Thanks for the info. I did not know that there were exceptions to the Congressional appointment process (I know MoH recipients' children can get direct appointments). That whole "affirmative action" approach you mentioned where you apparently skip the process everyone else has to compete in just because you're a minority doesn't sound right. DeShante, because he's black and gets good grades, gets a direct appointment but Clem the white farmboy from Alabama has to seek a Congressional appointment with thousands of others.....well, it ain't right.
el_chingoton13
11-07-15, 15:11
It's not terribly difficult to get a congressional appointment. In high school, a friend and I went through the application process and had what were essentially board interviews to get one from rep. Charlie Gonzalez out of San Antonio. He wasn't even there, it was just six vets if I remember correctly asking typical leadership questions. We both received the appointment and my buddy went on to the Naval Academy and I decided to have a more typical college experience.
This coming from the guy who I recall reading in another thread a while back suggesting that Jeb was a decent choice!
(I like you Steyr, not tying to pick a fight but I couldn't resist!)
Actually I said I liked Jeb, I think he would probably be a better President than his father or brother, but I also think he'd polarize the entire country and guarantee a Clinton victory. Jeb is hardly my ideal candidate, lots we don't agree on, but if there had never been a Bush 41 (one of the worst Presidents ever) or a Bush 43, and he got the nomination I could vote for him.
Carson just had too many logical inconsistencies, let's take guns. He says this:
Extremely pro-2nd Amendment; never let anyone tamper with it. (Feb 2014)
and that is wonderful of course, he "seems" to be one of the few who get it. But barely a year prior he said this:
Semi-automatic weapons ok in countryside, but not cities. (Mar 2013)
So WTF is that? People in urban areas don't have the same rights as those in the countryside? That shows a severe lack of understanding of rights across the board. From a practical standpoint, people in cities are probably in greater need of defensive firearms than those in the countryside.
The other problem is his fundamentalist religious view color every subject. He believed "tithing" is a solution to corporate greed.
"Tithing teaches about not hoarding as capitalist greed. (Jan 2012)"
Does he really think having people give money to church will solve any of the problem on Wall Street? And how does he propose to implement that solution? Does that mean he supports a mandatory tax that goes directly to a church? Or is it a fantasy solution that he thinks people will do voluntarily?
I agree with Carson on many things, but there are many other things where we simply are too far apart.
Actually I said I liked Jeb, I think he would probably be a better President than his father or brother, but I also think he'd polarize the entire country and guarantee a Clinton victory. Jeb is hardly my ideal candidate, lots we don't agree on, but if there had never been a Bush 41 (one of the worst Presidents ever) or a Bush 43, and he got the nomination I could vote for him.
Carson just had too many logical inconsistencies, let's take guns. He says this:
Extremely pro-2nd Amendment; never let anyone tamper with it. (Feb 2014)
and that is wonderful of course, he "seems" to be one of the few who get it. But barely a year prior he said this:
Semi-automatic weapons ok in countryside, but not cities. (Mar 2013)
So WTF is that? People in urban areas don't have the same rights as those in the countryside? That shows a severe lack of understanding of rights across the board. From a practical standpoint, people in cities are probably in greater need of defensive firearms than those in the countryside.
The other problem is his fundamentalist religious view color every subject. He believed "tithing" is a solution to corporate greed.
"Tithing teaches about not hoarding as capitalist greed. (Jan 2012)"
Does he really think having people give money to church will solve any of the problem on Wall Street? And how does he propose to implement that solution? Does that mean he supports a mandatory tax that goes directly to a church? Or is it a fantasy solution that he thinks people will do voluntarily?
I agree with Carson on many things, but there are many other things where we simply are too far apart.
Oh I'm on board with you about Carson. I was just responding to the jab at Cruz.
Ted ain't perfect but he checks all the conservative boxes for me, something I can't say about the others. Not being an particularly religious person I can overlook some of what he may espouse and his delivery style because he and I believe in mostly all the same things.
It's not terribly difficult to get a congressional appointment. In high school, a friend and I went through the application process and had what were essentially board interviews to get one from rep. Charlie Gonzalez out of San Antonio. He wasn't even there, it was just six vets if I remember correctly asking typical leadership questions. We both received the appointment and my buddy went on to the Naval Academy and I decided to have a more typical college experience.
That is very true. There are 435 U.S. Congressmen and 100 Senators. Each gets 10 nominations to each academy, so that's 5,350 nominations right there and then you have the VP, MoH, JROTC, Prep-school and Enlisted nominations. So there are roughly 6,500 nominations for the 1,100 appointments available at the each of the big three academies (Army, Navy and Air Force).
Thanks for the info. I did not know that there were exceptions to the Congressional appointment process (I know MoH recipients' children can get direct appointments). That whole "affirmative action" approach you mentioned where you apparently skip the process everyone else has to compete in just because you're a minority doesn't sound right. DeShante, because he's black and gets good grades, gets a direct appointment but Clem the white farmboy from Alabama has to seek a Congressional appointment with thousands of others.....well, it ain't right.
I agree, it isn't right. I'm in the middle of farm country in Central Illinois and there are a lot of "All American" guys and gals that I've worked with that get don't get the nod for the Academy simply because of the color of their skin. Sad, not to mention extremely frustrating. To be clear, the diverse candidates don't get to skip any part of the process, they just get preferential treatment. And it's not just for Academy Appointments and ROTC scholarships. There was a directive that the White House sent out to all of the services in 2010 that said diversity has to be considered in officer promotions and assignments. How many diverse candidates I worked with and what I did to increase diversity at USAFA became mandatory bullets on my Officer Performance Report which was my annual performance evaluation. I was offered the chance to be the Director for AF Officer Recruiting in IL, but was so sick of this diversity nonsense that I decided to retire instead.
Actually I said I liked Jeb, I think he would probably be a better President than his father or brother, but I also think he'd polarize the entire country and guarantee a Clinton victory. Jeb is hardly my ideal candidate, lots we don't agree on, but if there had never been a Bush 41 (one of the worst Presidents ever) or a Bush 43, and he got the nomination I could vote for him.
Carson just had too many logical inconsistencies, let's take guns. He says this:
Extremely pro-2nd Amendment; never let anyone tamper with it. (Feb 2014)
and that is wonderful of course, he "seems" to be one of the few who get it. But barely a year prior he said this:
Semi-automatic weapons ok in countryside, but not cities. (Mar 2013)
So WTF is that? People in urban areas don't have the same rights as those in the countryside? That shows a severe lack of understanding of rights across the board. From a practical standpoint, people in cities are probably in greater need of defensive firearms than those in the countryside.
The other problem is his fundamentalist religious view color every subject. He believed "tithing" is a solution to corporate greed.
"Tithing teaches about not hoarding as capitalist greed. (Jan 2012)"
Does he really think having people give money to church will solve any of the problem on Wall Street? And how does he propose to implement that solution? Does that mean he supports a mandatory tax that goes directly to a church? Or is it a fantasy solution that he thinks people will do voluntarily?
I agree with Carson on many things, but there are many other things where we simply are too far apart.
Carson is an idiot savant. A savant when it comes to neuro surgery and an idiot about pretty much everything else it appears. I wanted to like him and defended him early hoping it was just left wing media BS, but it aint. He's given the media more than enough ammo at this point of his own doing to show he's not a valid candidate. The end (for me)
Averageman
11-07-15, 17:22
Carson is an idiot savant. A savant when it comes to neuro surgery and an idiot about pretty much everything else it appears. I wanted to like him and defended him early hoping it was just left wing media BS, but it aint. He's given the media more than enough ammo at this point of his own doing to show he's not a valid candidate. The end (for me)
I'm with you.
Carson is an idiot savant. A savant when it comes to neuro surgery and an idiot about pretty much everything else it appears. I wanted to like him and defended him early hoping it was just left wing media BS, but it aint. He's given the media more than enough ammo at this point of his own doing to show he's not a valid candidate. The end (for me)
Well put Will.
I don't give a damn who they are or what they've done, if they have an "R" in front of their name, I'm voting for them. I don't care if Carson swung a hammer at his mother 4 decades ago, I only care about his politics... Which are better than most.
But if Carson out of the way makes more room for Cruz, then I'm all for it.
I don't give a damn who they are or what they've done, if they have an "R" in front of their name, I'm voting for them. I don't care if Carson swung a hammer at his mother 4 decades ago, I only care about his politics... Which are better than most.
But if Carson out of the way makes more room for Cruz, then I'm all for it.
I right with you on that that account.
Is the average voting Republican any smarter than the morons who voted for Obama? I'm not sure any more. Maybe creationist evangelicals really like Carson's Joseph the Pyramid builder. Maybe Joseph was an alien who used other worldly technology for these giant grain bins we call Pyramids? Since they believe the earth was created in 4004 BC in the Spring, maybe these Pyramids were not only grain bins, but protection against the carnivore dinosaurs which lived at the same time.
Maybe Carson has an explanation for how Noah got two of every beast worldwide into his boat in Mesopotamia, including Tasmanian Devils. As a brain surgeon, he knows how a flood managed to cover the Earth uniformly to an altitude above 29,000 feet (and where all this water is/was), without actually crushing the Earth's crust, or pushing the atmosphere out so far that Noah would require bottled oxygen to survive.
My opinion of Carson was always luke warm at best; now I'm starting to think he may just be a nut. Next candidate please.......
Maybe for everyone else. My actual problem with him is espousing nonsense like Joseph built the pyramids. I don't care what your demeanor or speech style is when you say absolute bizarre nonsense like that, there is no way to make it reasonable.
Ronald Reagan in his best delivery, couldn't sell it as a rational thought.
Steyr, I want apologize for the mix-up. I thought you were talking about Ted Cruz (I wondered why I hadn't heard of Ted's "Joseph and the Pyramids" story). I'm not a Carson fan, like yourself, and for pretty much the same reasons.
Oh I'm on board with you about Carson. I was just responding to the jab at Cruz.
Ted ain't perfect but he checks all the conservative boxes for me, something I can't say about the others. Not being an particularly religious person I can overlook some of what he may espouse and his delivery style because he and I believe in mostly all the same things.
I'm not recalling my comments about Cruz. Taking a look I see a few problems.
He wants to overturn the gay marriage thing and he will get hammered for it in a general election. Personally it's a non issue for me either way but I want whoever runs against Hillary to win.
He wants to disallow Ku Klux Klan from participating in Adopt-A-Highway. (Jul 2011). But unless he is going to similarly bar the Black Panthers, Black Nation of Islam, NAACP and other race based groups from doing the same it's just more "acceptable racism."
I worry about what he might mean specifically with this comment:
US has a responsibility to defend our values abroad. (Mar 2014)
But honestly I'm not seeing a LOT I have a problem with personally. He's obviously very vested in religious issues, but not to the extent of Carson and it is probably necessary to get elected. But if he get too deep into religious and abortion stuff he will never get elected.
So really my only big reservation about Cruz that I can see is him avoiding the "abortion trap" which would probably guarantee a Clinton victory.
Steyr, I want apologize for the mix-up. I thought you were talking about Ted Cruz (I wondered why I hadn't heard of Ted's "Joseph and the Pyramids" story). I'm not a Carson fan, like yourself, and for pretty much the same reasons.
LOL. Now everything makes sense. No worries.
Averageman
11-08-15, 07:55
Carson went from Stefan back to Steve in record time...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Urkel
Urkel devised the ultimate plan to win Laura's heart: transforming his DNA using a serum he dubbed "Cool Juice" to suppress his "nerd" genes and bring out his "cool" genes. This resulted in the alter ego known as Stefan Urquelle, played by White in more casual attire and with a smoother delivery. Initially, Laura is enamored with Stefan, but asks that he turn back into Steve towards the end of the episode when Stefan's self-centered, narcissistic traits come out.
Maybe for everyone else. My actual problem with him is espousing nonsense like Joseph built the pyramids. I don't care what your demeanor or speech style is when you say absolute bizarre nonsense like that, there is no way to make it reasonable.
Ronald Reagan in his best delivery, couldn't sell it as a rational thought.
I agree with you. There's a lot to like about Rick Perry, but his stance on creationism make me think of him in the same way as Carson's stance on the pyramids.
I agree with you. There's a lot to like about Rick Perry, but his stance on creationism make me think of him in the same way as Carson's stance on the pyramids.
You can add Mitt Romney to that list. Although my experience with Mormons leads me to believe that they are very pleasant, I have a hard time getting past the oddities of their cult - I mean religion.
When it comes to Carson, there are plenty of reasons other than his querky beliefs to look elsewhere. First among those is the fact that we've tried the whole affirmative action thing for President. It has not worked.
Carson has essentially ZERO executive experience and the only reason why we are talking about him is his color. While his clinical record in medicine is impressive, there are plenty of other people with more impressive CV's. His highest leadership position at JH was the Division Chief of Pediatric Neurosurgery which means that he oversaw himself and 2 other doctors. He was not a department chair, dean, or institute head.
If the GOP wants to nominate an affirmative action candidate, they would be wise to go the way of the vagina in 2016.
Thanks for the info. I did not know that there were exceptions to the Congressional appointment process (I know MoH recipients' children can get direct appointments). That whole "affirmative action" approach you mentioned where you apparently skip the process everyone else has to compete in just because you're a minority doesn't sound right. DeShante, because he's black and gets good grades, gets a direct appointment but Clem the white farmboy from Alabama has to seek a Congressional appointment with thousands of others.....well, it ain't right.
Most people do not understand the Service Academy nomination process though they think they do.
It's in Title 10 of the US code, and is intentionally structured to guarantee representation across the US while allowing flexibility to recruit based on the "needs of the Army".
So in addition to the "Congressional Noms" people are most familiar with, there are:
- 5 VP nom (really just another congressional nom, VP is member of congress)
- 100 Presidential noms for children of service members
- Unlimited Presidential noms for children of Medal of Honor recipients
- Service secretary (Secretary of the Army, etc)
- 85 Enlisted slots
- 85 Reserve slots
- 20 ROTC slots (including jROTC distinguished units)
- 50 Superintendent's noms (typically used for diversity & athletes)
Plus there are also 150 taken each year from the "National Waiting List", which were on a Congressional "slate" of ten, but that did not win that congressman's vacancy that year. This is done in order of merit order.
So to put this in perspective:
- It's 1969... West Point is not a popular place to go as it's viewed as an immediate ticket to an unpopular war in a country most could not find on a map. And most likely as an Infantry 2LT with very short expected lifespan.
- West Point was increasing allowed strength to produce more officers (Congressional act)
- USMA was pushing hard into adding Black cadets
- Carson was a known quantity, already in jROTC, highly recommended, killer grades and the highest test scores Detroit had seen at the time.
I can guarantee you they were recruiting (and promising) hard. Not unlikely at all to have a general making promises.
Politico has backed way down, they misrepresented the entire situation. USMA did not say Carson did not apply, they said they do not have any records of any other than cadets who were offered appointments.
As to being easy to get a congressional Nom, it varies by state, by timeframe, etc. In "Competitive" states, you pretty much have to be a "water walker" (admissions term) to get a Senate Nom. Same for Rep Noms in major metro areas.
But in a rural district, or a "non-military" state, some noms are much less competitive.
Likewise, you don't have to "know someone", nearly all have moved away from that. They use blind boards, usually exmilitary and present a slate of ten to each academy. Most do not even rank, letting the academy assign order.
My son's Senate board had a 1 star, 2 COL's, a major, and a couple of senior enlisted.
There is a "being known" effect, recommendations from military & grads who have personal knowledge of the candidate does make a huge difference. Like a jROTC commander would have.
Can't comment about the other items in his narrative, but Carson's West Point story is not unbelievable in my book! Just, as usual, not always well spoken.
You can add Mitt Romney to that list. Although my experience with Mormons leads me to believe that they are very pleasant, I have a hard time getting past the oddities of their cult - I mean religion.
No disagreement. Although I have trouble with the oddities of a lot of the world's cults - I mean religions - including Christianity.
Averageman
11-08-15, 10:46
No disagreement. Although I have trouble with the oddities of a lot of the world's cults - I mean religions - including Christianity.
It is very reassuring that we as conservatives, independents, etc. look so closely at our candidates then very carefully select one.
The other side of the house uses such criteria as "She will be the first Woman President" or "I want to make history by voting for the first African American President."
I wonder though, are we killing our own chances of getting someone outside of the system or are we actually making it harder to find someone suitable?
It is very reassuring that we as conservatives, independents, etc. look so closely at our candidates then very carefully select one.
The other side of the house uses such criteria as "She will be the first Woman President" or "I want to make history by voting for the first African American President."
True and true, but the GOP has done such a piss poor job of offering anything resembling a viable candidate, they have handed the White House on a platter to the Dems. The last election was not won by Obama as much as lost by the GOP. It was easily there for the taking and they screwed up royally. To repeat, until the GOP gets back to it's roots of being "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal" or what was Old School GOP, and removing the creatures that have taken over the GOP, the GOP is doomed. Old school GOP was closer to modern day Libertarian.
I wonder though, are we killing our own chances of getting someone outside of the system or are we actually making it harder to find someone suitable?
Yes. Trump's popularity will be the downfall if he does not go away soon, but his popularity is a symptom, vs a cause, of why he's popular due to lack of choices and biz as usual GOP. Trump does expose the utter despair of voters, out there and a symptom of the times.
True and true, but the GOP has done such a piss poor job of offering anything resembling a viable candidate, they have handed the White House on a platter to the Dems. The last election was not won by Obama as much as lost by the GOP. It was easily there for the taking and they screwed up royally. To repeat, until the GOP gets back to it's roots of being "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal" or what was Old School GOP, and removing the creatures that have taken over the GOP, the GOP is doomed. Old school GOP was closer to modern day Libertarian.
Yes. Trump's popularity will be the downfall if he does not go away soon, but his popularity is a symptom, vs a cause, of why he's popular due to lack of choices and biz as usual GOP. Trump does expose the utter despair of voters, out there and a symptom of the times.
GOP candidates are as equally viable as any Dem.....until the double standards are applied. Once double standards are applied, there can be no viable candidate. There is no such thing in the Liberal agenda. Well ok, any candidate that the Dems would consider a hands down, no contest win for Hillary is viable. Gilmore is a viable candidate. The Liberals define viability for any candidate because Conservatives can't agree on anything.... not even the 2A.
Liberals can and do make decisions. They will agree to elect a criminal.... "but they are a criminal"... doesn't matter, if they are not in prison we will find something to get behind... like simply being a woman.
Why is Trump so much worse than anyone? Hillary is an inept criminal. Obama at best is simply a lucky black guy in the right place at the right time. Trump is an international businessman and while he may not be perfect he certainly knows how to surround himself with quality people.
If Jesus re-materialized and ran for Republican candidate, he probably would not win simply because the non-Libs would still need something just a little better, or just a little different.
Hillary get's this. She even said so on TV lately. If the GOP were viable she would know she didn't have a chance in hell with her record. But because the GOP is what it is, and the voter base is so disparate in opinion and near fickle personal needs, she knows she can actually win and possibly win easily under the right conditions.
The only saving grace we have are the influx of new tea party-ish and some re-election of Republicans.
Two recent elections.
Brat in VA --- he claims to be old school Republican but was elected by the Tea Party
Sturtivant in VA --- again, roots voters... a small county of voters offset Bloomberg and his "unprecedented" money, Gov. McCauliffe, and strong Liberal Senatorial support from sitting reps in VA ( Kaine, Warner ) IOW, against the highest of odds.
Now are either of these two guys perfect? Could they have won had there been more competition? Nope... in fact the 'Independent' votes were hurtful to them.
IF.. .which simply is not going to happen, because "Republicans" apparently like getting kicked in the teeth on a regular basis, but IF the republicans were to simply get behind ONE candidate then that ONE candidate would become viable... most any one of them... But that will never happen because the Republicans will either, not vote or vote for a known loser because it's what their heart told them to do. Again, Hillary knows Republicans are that stupid.
It's like Republicans like the Playoffs but could give a damn about the final match. "Oh, hell no, I'm not paying those high prices for ticket." "I saw 10 great playoff games and my team didn't make it to the final" "Maybe next time" It's just a basic sporting event that they can take or leave and are more than ready to leave.
I think it would be a good idea to have a businessman instead of a bunch of Lawyers. Our country was founded by rich businessmen. Sure they had legal training or lawyers but they were mostly multi-talented 'get the job done' type people and not simply 'I'll make a law to control people' people. Trump is certainly a multi-talented get the job done type person. He certainly doesn't seem to have an issue with 'staying in the fight'. He's not afraid of a phone call, impromptu interview, or what ever.
Republicans are their own worst enemy.... and Hillary needs it to stay that way for 12 more months.
I see the Republican potential voter as the injury. Trump is the physical therapy that no one wants to deal with but would actually get them back in the game.
Averageman
11-08-15, 15:46
If Jesus re-materialized and ran for Republican candidate, he probably would not win simply because the non-Libs would still need something just a little better, or just a little different.
Hillary get's this. She even said so on TV lately. If the GOP were viable she would know she didn't have a chance in hell with her record. But because the GOP is what it is, and the voter base is so disparate in opinion and near fickle personal needs, she knows she can actually win and possibly win easily under the right conditions.
The only saving grace we have are the influx of new tea party-ish and some re-election of Republicans.
Two recent elections.
Republicans are their own worst enemy.... and Hillary needs it to stay that way for 12 more months.
I see the Republican potential voter as the injury. Trump is the physical therapy that no one wants to deal with but would actually get them back in the game.
The thing is Jesus isn't going to come back for this election and to be honest I don't see this country surviving Hillary.
I see the Republican potential voter as the injury. Trump is the physical therapy that no one wants to deal with but would actually get them back in the game.
Trump is a complete clown who's tapped into the frustration of GOP voters. If Trump is the best the GOP can come up with, (1) you can just hand HC the POTUS seat and (2) we are doomed. The joke that is Trump needs to fade so we can actually get back to the business of keeping HC and the ilk from the WH. To repeat, until the GOP gets back to its roots of what was the GOP - and Trump dump sure as hell aint that - then just keep handing POTUS to the Dems and keep seeing a slide in Liberty and Freedoms, which the recent past GOP leaders mucked up in a similar fashion. Fail fail as it were.
Personally, I'd like to finally se the rise of a real third party candidate once people realize neither party in the current two party system has their best interest in mind nor gives a damn about them.
Averageman
11-08-15, 16:01
Trump is a complete clown who's tapped into the frustration of GOP voters. If Trump is the best the GOP can come up with, (1) you can just hand HC the POTUS seat and (2) we are doomed. The joke that is Trump needs to fade so we can actually get back to the business of keeping HC and the ilk from the WH. To repeat, until the GOP gets back to its roots of was the GOP - and Trump dump sure as hell aint that - then just keep handing POTUS to the Dems and keep seeing a slide in Liberty and Freedoms, which the recent past GOP leaders mucked up in a similar fashion. Fail fail as it were.
Personally, I'd like to finally se the rise of a real third party candidate once people realize neither party in the current two party system has their best interest in mind nor gives a damn about them.
We've been dealing with this however for going on 20 years.
Clearly the GOP isn't the answer, they don't even see the problem except that they keep pushing Romney like Candidates and we get pissed and half of the electorate stays home.
We have both houses and still cannot get anything done or block the Progressives from doing pretty much anything they want.
So the answer to this is Jeb???
I don't see how we can expect to have a country worth saving at this point.
We've been dealing with this however for going on 20 years.
Clearly the GOP isn't the answer, they don't even see the problem except that they keep pushing Romney like Candidates and we get pissed and half of the electorate stays home.
We have both houses and still cannot get anything done or block the Progressives from doing pretty much anything they want.
So the answer to this is Jeb???
I don't see how we can expect to have a country worth saving at this point.
Hence, my final sentence above "Personally, I'd like to finally se the rise of a real third party candidate once people realize neither party in the current two party system has their best interest in mind nor gives a damn about them"
Whether this Republic is worth saving is subjective really. I do not however think it's past the point no return by any means.
FlyingHunter
11-08-15, 17:01
If Trump is the best the GOP can come up with, (1) you can just hand HC the POTUS seat and (2) we are doomed.
Well said Will. HC election may trigger the Balkanization we need.
Averageman
11-08-15, 17:16
Hence, my final sentence above "Personally, I'd like to finally se the rise of a real third party candidate once people realize neither party in the current two party system has their best interest in mind nor gives a damn about them"
Whether this Republic is worth saving is subjective really. I do not however think it's past the point no return by any means.
I totally agree, but the rise of the third party and the realization of where we are at is at least 4 and perhaps 12 years too late.
If Romney was correct about anything he got the 47% thing right, but what he didn't dare speak about was the massive debt corporate welfare saddles us with. You're not going to get anyone from the GOP to speak about that because that is where their bread is buttered.
The Republic is worth saving and we may be capable of saving it, but honestly I don't think it is in the best interest of either party to change the status quo, there is simply too much money left to milk out of the system before it flat-lines. So what we are left with is a two party system that only has the capacity to work together when there is a possibility of a third party candidate, they can work really hard to block that possibility.
I think the rise of a third party would require a crisis on the level of 9/11 plus a Great Depression as a cherry on top.
The approximately half of this country who have no federal income tax burden are not going to like to see a fiscal conservative who wants to tighten the reigns.
When economic times bottom out people tend to hug the Democrats. It's cultivated indoctrination to believe that the Dems are "For the working man, son", as I heard my grandfather mention a few times as I grew up. Loved him dearly but as I got older and remembered those words I just shook my head.
Anyone remember the Alabama tune "Song of the South"? "....the cotton was short and the weeds were tall but Mr. Roosevelt was gonna save us all...."
Anyone remember the Alabama tune "Song of the South"? "....the cotton was short and the weeds were tall but Mr. Roosevelt was gonna save us all...."
F&ckin' love that song, but that line makes me want to kick a kitten.
MountainRaven
11-08-15, 21:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=381&v=s7tWHJfhiyo
There's a reason why the youngest of the two major parties in the US is over 150 years old and even somebody with the pull and popularity of TR couldn't do anything but split the vote.
(And to use the examples in the video, the Tiger voters (Tea Party/Libertarians) are pulling the Leopard party (GOP) in one direction while the Gorilla voters (mainstream Dems) are able to keep a steady hand on the till and mostly able to shut out the Monkey voters (Bernie supporters). Owl voters (moderates, swing voters) as a result view the Gorilla party's favored candidate (Hilliary) as being more moderate than the leading Leopard party candidate (Trump), who is nakedly making his drive at Tiger voters.)
In order to create and sustain a third (and/or fourth and/or more) parties in the US, we will need fundamental changes to the way that we elect the President - a Constitutional Convention will be required.
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