View Full Version : 20 inch BCM upper with Stag A2 lower?
allthelumens
11-10-15, 01:51
I'm pretty new to the firearms scene, as only having ever owned one rifle (a S&W 16 inch M&P Sporter). I have since sold that carbine as money was tight. I've been doing as much research as I can for my next purchase (I might attempt an actual build one day.) This rifle will be used primarily for training and home defense. I wanted some input into this subject as to what I should include and or stay away from? I am thinking of going with a 20 inch BCM upper and Stag arms A2 lower. Thanks in advance.
Why do you want a 20" especially when you indicate for home defense and training? A 16" carbine is more than sufficient and more compact for such a role. There are lots of sales happening right now. Take a look at these uppers and then find a lower of your choice.
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/
Auto-X Fil
11-10-15, 06:10
There is not much advantage to an A2 lower. I suggest getting a carbine lower, which gives much greater flexibility now, and for future changes.
Stag is my favorite of the mid-grade AR manufacturers. They are not the equal of BCM, Noveske, LMT, KAG, etc, but I think for a lower they are a solid choice.
A 16" BCM upper would be an excellent choice. The extra velocity gained from 4" of additional barrel is of minimal utility, and the handing is greatly impacted.
Just one more suggestion: either spend the money on good optics, or stick with decent irons for now. Cheap optics have no place on a defensive weapon. Magpul, Troy, and others have good back-up iron sights that will work fine as primary sights until you save up and make a decision on optics.
allthelumens
11-10-15, 10:18
I will be honest I have gotten a lot of information from guys on Youtube but in particular Reid Henrichs... he does a video about his AR setup and I agreed a lot with what he said so I figured that could work for me.. and in close quarters that 4 inches probably isnt going to make much of a difference velocity wise I'm thinking correct? As far as optics go I am definitely leaning towards an Aimpoint or the Trijicon MRO.. Also for you guys with more experience... is it paramount to have a light that you can operate ambidextrously? I will definitely take a look at the 16 inch uppers.
A 20 inch upper on an A2 lower will be significantly longer than a 16" upper on a collapsible stock. There is more like a 9 inch difference in overall length with stock fully collapsed.
Get a bcm 16" upper and, if you're really strapped for cash, a complete palmetto state armory lower which can be found for under $200.
Ref question on light placement. Mine is where I have the best control with my support hand. Not easily manipulated by my strong hand and I am right handed. If you were clearing buildings with lots of halls and doors where you would change sides, YES I can see this being advantageous. For my home, I am GTG.
A Stag A2 lower is every bit the equal of a comparable BCM. You would have to go Colt to get a better receiver extension.
I'm with everyone else on the 20" A2 setup. It's a dinosaur by today's standards. An adjustable stock and a 16" barrel makes worlds of difference in handling ease.
A 20 inch upper on an A2 lower will be significantly longer than a 16" upper on a collapsible stock. There is more like a 9 inch difference in overall length with stock fully collapsed.
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I believe the difference is 7 1/4" from my measurements.
I cant argue with the reasoning of most regarding a carbine for home defense, though my favorite all around type for shooting is the 20" rifle.
If you are pretty sure you want a fixed stock, I went this route with one of my ARs....fixed A1 stock but a 16" mid-length upper. Shoots nicely. I love Magpul's SL handguards and would put them on this gun if it didn't require swapping out the triangle handguard cap with a round one.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/f342c816-1386-452f-b5af-78a9846e5547.jpg
I even did this for a while - lightweight carbine upper on a fixed stock lower. The setup didn't like PMC bronze for some reason I never determined but it ate steel cased stuff with no issue, the upper has since been stuck on a carbine lower and spray painted but I do find the shorter barrel/fixed stock combo to be enjoyable to shoot. The dark blotches on the barrel are from where a sling melted to it following a firing session, Oops.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/Circle_10/Mobile%20Uploads/5facd4c3-da2b-4b74-a63d-263dede5fded.jpg
Nightstalker865
11-10-15, 17:15
I would highly recommend going with a BCM mid-length gas 16" upper for your described use. It will do everything you need it to and be perfectly reliable.
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As far as a Stag lower mated to a BCM upper, go for it. I have two semi-auto Stag/BCM M4 combos that I like very much. The Stag lowers seem to have a near-perfect fit with the BCM uppers I have them mated with. Snug, very little play between the two, but easy to get the push pins out. However, I would get something shorter than the 20" Rifle Upper and A2 stock.
allthelumens
11-11-15, 07:10
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I will definitely be reconsidering my choice. It definitely make sense to go with the shorter 16" barrel.. When its all set up and going I'll post some pictures.
ncshooter18
11-11-15, 08:06
I have done the 16" midlength with a Fulton A1 stock.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/7lf10/0003619B-9E31-4C2E-AF15-09D03430A318_zpsz1ymtciv.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/7lf10/media/0003619B-9E31-4C2E-AF15-09D03430A318_zpsz1ymtciv.jpg.html)
Eventually I got tired of how long the stock was and how it was kind of a PITA to mount a sling. How it looks now:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/7lf10/0493AA73-3B6F-4BAA-BF1B-FA0457CCB38F_zpspsx2jb4j.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/7lf10/media/0493AA73-3B6F-4BAA-BF1B-FA0457CCB38F_zpspsx2jb4j.jpg.html)
crusader377
11-11-15, 12:53
Although there is nothing wrong with the M16A4 configuration for target shooting and home defense, I would have to second other members advice that a 16" midlength or carbine upper on a carbine lower is a more flexible choice. The shorter barrels are just as accurate as the rifle barrels and they don't give up any ballistic performance until you get to longer ranges. Personally for a first AR I would buy this colt 6720 and call it a day.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Eurodriver
11-12-15, 06:45
One thing i have noticed is no one to my knowledge will guarantee 1/2 moa on a 16 inch rifle but i do see 1/2 moa guarantees on 20-24 inch rifles GEE Hmmm now I wonder why that is !!!!!:secret: its a secret!
GEE, hmm, I wonder if it has to do with manufacturers putting more emphasis on accuracy for 24", 13lb behemoths than is practical on a 16" AR15. It's a secret!!! Or maybe only idiots who care about a "1/2 MOA Guarantee" buy 24" AR15 barrels in the first place? We're left with quite the conundrum. Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Fudds demanding a 1/2 MOA guarantee and a 24" tube for "max velocity!" or barrel makers marketing to Fudds with 1/2 MOA guarantees out of 24" tubes for "max velocity!"
If you're using a bull barreled beast that is 1.5" in diameter you might as well make it 24" and get as much velocity as possible since even at SBR lengths you won't be lugging that thing around firing around corners.
Your choice of weapon and optic if SHTF is very interesting, by the way.
This ain't rocket science. Recipe for success: 16" flavor of BCM + complete BCM lower (including blem) = success
By the way i just weighed that 24 " rifle with a 30mm 8.5-25x50 2 lb scope a 20rnd loaded mag and it came in 11lbs 6 0z kind of alittle short of a 13lb behemoth !!!!
It's still closer in weight to a 13 lbs behemoth than it is an 8 lbs work rifle. As far as scopes go, years of experience has taught me that Tascos are at the cheap end of "Unacceptable".
There is no reason to not mix & match uppers & lowers. You want a 16" on a lower with a rifle RE & stock? Do it. You want a 20" upper on a lower with a carbine RE and adjustable stock? Do it. With uppers & lowers that are sorted out and in spec, there should be no problems. Sometimes I mix & match mine just to pretend I'm doing something different
As it's easy to put together something lighter, there's no reason I'd want to lug around a 9 3/4 lbs carbine. Not efficient. Carry a rifle around for long hours and for miles, you'll discover just how little you actually need and how much you can live without.
I never said you needed a $1-3k scope. There are other, less expensive, quality alternatives, to a Tasco.
Best all around AR is a simple setup with a 16" barrel with a reasonable barrel profile, good optic, weapon light and a sling. It will do just about anything you need it to
Regarding the fixed rifle stock, I think in most cases it would work fine on a "house gun" for HD purposes. Telescoping stocks are great for storage or maneuvering in and out of tight spots or for wearing armor or small statured shooters, but I think an average-sized shooter, not wearing armor or heavy clothing, in typically sized house is going to benefit much more from a shorter barrel than they would from a shorter stock. Most people will likely use a collapsible stock set a few notches out anyway. If you have other family members who may also use the gun than an adjustable stock may be better.
I am a bit biased though, as I am pretty pleased with the way carbines with a 16" barrel and a fixed stock combination balanced and handled.
allthelumens
11-12-15, 19:51
OK, I'm impressed and feel silly for spending money on quality equipment. All this time I could've been hitting Prairie Dogs at 500+ yards with a Tasco. :blush:
Better yet, put down the CTD catalog. Sell 8 of your 9 ARs and the airsoft CHICOM hanging off of them. Keep the DD.
Do a little reading here and reinvest your money in products designed for actual firearms.
Now back to whatever this thread was about before you screwed it up spewing garbage.
Nice little touch with the airsoft CHICOM :lol:
I'd recommend you go with a shorter barrel for home defense. A 16" upper will be better especially if you chose to attach a lower with a collapsible stock to it. There is a reason that the Army Rangers ditched the M16A2 for M4A1 rifles before the GWOT kicked off. A shorter weapon is easier to use in tight spaces and a 16" barrel is as short of a rifle you can own if you don't want to go the NFA route.
If you like to use YouTube for firearms related advice I recommend you also check out the Vickers Tactical and Gunsngear channels and see how you feel about their content.
Business_Casual
12-02-18, 18:35
I will be honest I have gotten a lot of information from guys on Youtube but in particular Reid Henrichs... he does a video about his AR setup and I agreed a lot with what he said so I figured that could work for me.. and in close quarters that 4 inches probably isnt going to make much of a difference velocity wise I'm thinking correct? As far as optics go I am definitely leaning towards an Aimpoint or the Trijicon MRO.. Also for you guys with more experience... is it paramount to have a light that you can operate ambidextrously? I will definitely take a look at the 16 inch uppers.
Wasn’t he a Marine? Maybe he spent a lot of time behind a 20” barrel and that formed his opinions.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-02-18, 18:47
Wasn’t he a Marine? Maybe he spent a lot of time behind a 20” barrel and that formed his opinions.
He may not get back to you, it's been a couple years since he logged into the forum.
Bravo Sierra
12-02-18, 19:18
You want a home defense rifle? 8" 300blk. Pistol w/ a sig brace.
Everytime I seriously consider getting one of those A4 20” rifles; I go handle my 1:1 scale, historically accurate, no corners cut, spared no expense XM16E1 clone and realize that to get an A4 would be like having a perpetually horny 1982 Phoebe Cates at home who lounges about in red thong strap shoes and a sheer toga-like slip and then going out to find the fat, toothless hooker from that one HBO documentary who likely has things the CDC would love to study and weaponize and also gave a graphic description of the corns on her hamhock feet.
But, you do you. Only God can judge.
Sometimes spiked Egg Nog gets to people during the holidays. But, I am guessing this issue resolved itself about 3 years ago.
Wasn’t he a Marine? Maybe he spent a lot of time behind a 20” barrel and that formed his opinions.
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