TAP 9mm effectiveness

[xm15]

I am asking this here because other sites are runaway stupid and I would never get an answer.
also I am not looking at a legal side of this just ammunition results.

I am doing my thing and hear a LOT of barking and yelling,

3 pitbulls attack my neighbor, 1 see's me and charges full blast across the yard from a good 50 yards away, for a piece of me.

not his day

I shoot untill the threat stops-4 rds @ 15ft max
it turns, shakes it off and is pissed I shot it, growls and comes at me again, another 4 rds @ 10ft max.

it decides it has had enough and off it goes. it did not survive.

my point is ...should it have really taken that much? is 9mm or the TAP weak? at the 10-15ft range I did NOT miss.it ate 8 rds.I expected 1 or 2, was my expectations too high? my target was a head the first charge, the second time it was head and somewhat side torso.

I am putting away the 9mm as a CCW in favor of my 45 considering the results.it performed, but not as good as I would want.I want as FEW rounds needed, used.

I am not worried about the legal issue, backstop-safe, neighbor dying-negative.
he was dead if I was not already outside.
these dogs were not from the area, they were at least 75lbs each and highly pissed off.I have owned these as pets before so I knew what I was dealing with.

what is the ammunition opinion.
4 inch barreled pistol. walther.

I work nites so I may not be back for a bit to respond
but thanks.

[Gutshot John]

You can't predict how a bullet is going to effect an assailant, sometimes they don't even know they've been shot. Outside of a headshot that takes out the CNS, there is no guarantee of a one-shot stop.

You may have heard talk about the "dead man's 10 seconds."

Even if shot right through the heart an assailant can still continue the fight for about 10 seconds to F you up.

I don't know if you hunt deer, but even with a well-placed rifle round, a deer can still cover 100 meters pretty easily.

9mm (TAP or otherwise) is perfectly adequate so long as you "shoot 'em to the ground." Same holds true for .45 or .40. The notion that a .45 will instantly stop anything is a myth.

[xm15]

that pup was FAST so I had little time, I was just suprised it got pissed and came back.

[flanntastic]

i carry 124grn tap, so thats scary

[markm]

It's hard to say if a 45 would have made the diff or not.

Hornady's pistol bullets have never impressed me. I don't know what bullet is in TAP. But I've reloaded Hornady XTP bullets in 45 ACP, and I couldn't get them to expand in Water. Plain old water with no clothing, bones, or barriers.

To me water is the baseline test. Not 100% science... but every other hollow point bullet I've tested would expand well in water.

[RD62]

I find that most animals have a much stronger will to survive than most humans. Shoot a 140lb whitetail with a 300Win Mag and it may run 100yds or more before expiring. Shoot a 250lb gang-banger and they will probably drop right there. A wacked out mental patient or crack-head, and you may still have a fight on your hands. It all varies from situation to situation. If your most likely threat comes from pissed off pits, I'd carry a shotty. If it is the average mugger, home invader,etc I'd go with either the 9mm or the .45.

Oh, yeah. Good shooting! I hope your neighbor was appreciative! And I hope the county fines the crap out of the owner!

-RD62

[Fail-Safe]

4 words come to mind:

Adrenaline Is A Bitch

You can bet that dog was hopped up with plenty of it too.

I am not a fan of XTPs at all. Thats what TAP pistol rounds are. I dont like their less than stellar expansion, nor do I like their claims of great penetration. Damn it, I want both! If penetration is all I want there are JSP and FMJs.

Dont shit on the 9mm. I'll go out on a limb and say that if it didnt get it done, .45acp wouldnt either.

If you're serious about defensive munitions, and you should be (afterall its your life you are trying to save) go with a round on Dr Roberts(DocGKR) reccomended list.

[markm]

I am not a fan of XTPs at all. Thats what TAP pistol rounds are.

Wow! Those crappy XTP bullets have been around longer than the "TAP" brand. Those bullets suck hind tit. Probably not much better than Ball ammo.

I would have thought they'd put a decent bullet in such a "Tactical" load. :rolleyes:

[Evan_O]

xm15-
I hope Doc doesn't mind me posting this and well if he does, he has my email address and will let me know ( I hate to get spanked ;) )

I would put money on anything Doc say's. This is what he has posted on several forums reference 9mm. Trust me, he knows his S%#t.

Originaly posted by DocGKR.
"In our testing, the following currently produced 9 mm JHP’s offered acceptable terminal performance:

Triton 115 gr +P JHP (TR9HVA)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)
Win 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

FWIW, the 147 gr Winchester RA9T remains the best performing 9mm load we have tested. If I was carrying a 9 mm handgun, I personally would choose the 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon or 127 gr +P+ Winchester Ranger Talon followed by the 147 gr Remington Golden Saber, the 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot and the 124 gr Federal Tactical. "

[Robb Jensen]

A shotgun or rifle would be the best choice and even then multiple hits may be required if you don't get a CNS hit......

[Wayne Dobbs]

Pit bulls take a lot of shooting with pistols much of the time. I also wonder where you "inserted" the rounds you fired? If you didn't hit something important the shootee will usually not be impressed, especially if you're a) shooting them with a pistol and b) if they're drunk, drugged or crazy.

[30russkie]

i had to put down a st-benard/pit bull mix that was about 125lbs. i just happened to have my m9 loaded with 115grain P+ loads.

at about 4 meters i made a shot which landed right between the dogs eyes. he went down. and i thought i got a clean one shot- humane kill.

after couple seconds on the ground the big dog howled and got up. i quickly pumped about 8 more rounds through the heart area. he went down again--kicking --didn't get up this time.

checking the big dog over--the 115 grain 9mm round did not penetrate the dogs skull. the other 8 rounds penetrated his heart--none went through the dog.

i still use the 9mm--killed a rabid fox with it a while back.

however i usually carry a 40s&w 180jhp, 45 acp 230s jhp or 357sig with 140fmj's-- or 357 mag revolver--

[xm15]

thats what I found, I just did not go that detailed.the first few bounced of it's skull.and on it's next attempt thats where I got a few side shots.TAP is not cheap and thats why I expected a bit better performance.I have sabers and will go that way or a +P+ Ranger.that hopefully would penetrate.I was carrying so an AR was not a possibility but would have been first choice.

but man , a large red pit , and I said 75lbs I think.that was conservative.
it had run into my backyard and out really fast.I would hate to think of my 3yr old girl in her sandbox.

I did avoid confrontation with the owner screaming around the "hood" lookin for his dog's killer.

that whent well, and the good thing neighbor was happy and I won't have to worry about my or anyone elses kids.the "A" dog won't be back.

I did not know about Doc's history, I will read up
thanks

[Fail-Safe]

Wow! Those crappy XTP bullets have been around longer than the "TAP" brand. Those bullets suck hind tit. Probably not much better than Ball ammo.

I would have thought they'd put a decent bullet in such a "Tactical" load. :rolleyes:

Nope. They use XTPs. There is also another version, but it may be discontinued by now called "TAP CQB". It essentially an XTP with a "shallow" hollw point, as opposed to the normal XTP.

In the end, TAP good for rifles, shotguns, maybe big bore pistols, everything else, not so much.

[markm]

In the end, TAP good for rifles, shotguns, maybe big bore pistols, everything else, not so much.

Yeah. I ordered some TAP 556 75 gr today. I'm not anti hornady or anything, I just am less than thrilled with XTP pistol bullets.

[williejc]

Within the last year a friend had a similar experience when he was attacked in his garage by two big pits. He shot one in the head and the other in the body with a 12 ga skeet load--one shot each at muzzle distance as he was dancing around trying to avoid the dogs and shoot at the same time. The head shot blew away part of the lower jaw. Both dogs lived. And one(I forget which)left and came back for more. Hitting vitals is essential, especially with an enraged attacker. Shooting these dogs made them madder.