View Full Version : Help Me Scratch My Itch To Modify - Or Don't..
So I have this previous generation DDM4V3 with the Omega X Rail and non-proprietary fixed front sight:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/D802CB68-2BDD-4739-8B88-452075906D5F-1551-000002179210410E.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/D802CB68-2BDD-4739-8B88-452075906D5F-1551-000002179210410E.jpg.html)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/BFBE6065-B49A-4F25-AF86-F027EE8AE5C2-1551-000002178B201E7D.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/BFBE6065-B49A-4F25-AF86-F027EE8AE5C2-1551-000002178B201E7D.jpg.html)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/8946F481-865A-466D-ACF7-DD007984DE7D-1551-000002179948744F.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/8946F481-865A-466D-ACF7-DD007984DE7D-1551-000002179948744F.jpg.html)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x83/xanderzuk/57BFE940-6DC5-4E9E-B26C-753EF82C5FBE-1551-000002177C4CD19C.jpg (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/xanderzuk/media/57BFE940-6DC5-4E9E-B26C-753EF82C5FBE-1551-000002177C4CD19C.jpg.html)
I purchased this new several years ago after having done enough reading to know which of the quality manufacturers to choose from, but without the AR platform shooting experience to appreciate some of the finer details and options that I would likely select now for a general purpose, do all rifle. If I were to purchase a complete rifle today I would likely pick something with a LW profile barrel, and lighter, longer rail.
I have the itch to modify this little puppy to meet some of my current preferences. I'm considering chopping the front sight base to fit under a longer, lighter rail (perhaps a BCM KMR), and having the barrel reprofiled forward of the gas block by someone like ADCO, as I don't really understand the point of the Government profile.
My primary concern with a reprofile is that this thing is currently an unbelieveable tack driver, and I would hate to in some way adversely affect the accuracy through this process (I'm defaulting to the community's expertise here).
In addition to these possible modifications, I'm in search of a new optic, as the pictured Aimpoint was sold long ago. I'm considering an Aimpoint T2, Trijicon MRO, quality 1x4, or MAYBE a Trijicon TA11 with red chevron.
Finally, I'm also considering replacing my light with a Surefire X300 mounted at 12 o'clock.
To conclude, I would value the input and opinions of the membership, even if it includes inaction with regards to this rifle in its current format, and scratching the itch with a clean sheet. Although, if the latter is your recommendation, this rifle needs an optic, so at least express your optic preference for a rifle of this format and type.
Thank you.
Another option, if the upper is set up and shoots really well as is, leave it alone and invest in a new LW upper. A factory BCM upper, with KMR, ELW barrel, add a BCG and CH for $70 bucks. Might be a bit more than a new rail, and reprofiling, but to me it makes more sense if there isn't anything wrong with the current upper. Fair warning you will likely end up with it turning into another rifle, but you always need a backup anyway. Slap an Aimpoint or other RDS on the LW upper, maybe a 1-4x or Acog on the DD, and rock on.
Also, Black Friday is just around the corner, might be able to catch a hot deal on an upper. Will have to see what sales crop up.
I agree with buying a new bcm kmr upper also and eventually a matching lower and have two rifles unless you have the itch to get tools and disassemble and mod your upper for the experience.
ColtSeavers
11-14-15, 16:19
I'm going to third the option of buying the upper you want outright, as well as also throw out the possibility of building your own upper piecemeal if you are unsure of exactly what you want, no one makes exactly what you want (as is my problem) or cannot afford a new upper all at once for some reason.
Sell the DD upper and buy the BCM upper of your choice if you don't plan on putting together another rifle.
Sell the DD upper and buy the BCM upper of your choice if you don't plan on putting together another rifle.
Is there a specific reason to go with a BCM upper over Daniel Defense, et al?
sell the upper and put on a V11LW upper?
Rocketman, do you have any experience with the V11LW? If so, what's the hand guard like in hand?
So I have this previous generation DDM4V3 with the Omega X Rail and non-proprietary fixed front sight:
I purchased this new several years ago after having done enough reading to know which of the quality manufacturers to choose from, but without the AR platform shooting experience to appreciate some of the finer details..................
I personally think she is sexy as hell.
I highlighted that one part, because, IMHO, owning a sexy machine, like any Italian or German cars, is such a waste sitting in a garage.
Take her out.
Take her on a Carbine class instead.
Treat the both of you on a very nice class...a two day class perhaps.
Then assess if she needs implants or a some nip-n-tuck.
Again, she sexy as hell :o
Is there a specific reason to go with a BCM upper over Daniel Defense, et al?
I believe the BCM uppers sell for less than DD ones. I think a lightweight barrel with a KMR would fit what you are looking for. Personally I like the current set up you've got. It's a bit like my go to rifle.
Rocketman, do you have any experience with the V11LW? If so, what's the hand guard like in hand?
The slim rail appears robust as hell compared to my BCM KMR. The V11LW upper is as accurate at the V5 upper I had
V11 upper is $781 at Lanbos
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Eurodriver
11-14-15, 18:37
Why modify anything at all? Why does it need to be lighter? What type of shooting are you doing that requires you to spend more money to achieve a desired benefit?
Personally, I'd rock that rifle as-is. 1" old school light and all.
I posted before you had the pics up OP. I tend to agree, the set up, as is, is solid. One of my BCMs are set up similarly, 9 inch DD rail on a BCM middy upper with an M2 Aimpoint. I do have a couple differences on mine, Surefire Scout, CTR instead of MOE, BCM grip and CH, different BUIS. It will do the job well. Have considered grabbing another upper with a lighterweight barrel, but it isn't a pressing matter. If I wanted to cut weight on my rifle now I'd like go to a lighter optic like an Aimpoint Micro or something, before re-profiling my barrel, which is a BCM BFH Gov profile. Maybe drop an M300C or Arasaki light, before messing with the barrel or rail, because having scoped the thing in the past it will print very nice groups with loads it likes, and in situations like that I like not screwing with something that works.
As far as the DDV11, have a friend who just got one. He is quite happy with it. No mistake DD makes a good rifle, I just default to BCM because generally they have more options and damn near an upper or set up for every taste.
Why modify anything at all? Why does it need to be lighter? What type of shooting are you doing that requires you to spend more money to achieve a desired benefit?
Personally, I'd rock that rifle as-is. 1" old school light and all.
There are two primary environments that have created this desire. First, traversing fairly rough terrain on a friends ranch here in Texas while hunting hogs for hours on end, and typically at night, I don't once remember wishing my DDM4V3 weighed more. The first environment bleeds over into the second; transition time between targets, both while hunting and on the range, are likely to be reduced with a platform that's lighter, especially near the muzzle.
This rifle has been rocked for several years in every role a rifle can fill, and sits bedside between its various excursions. Its shortcomings in certain areas doesn't mean it will necessarily go away, however it may fall into a more specific role as I diversify my AR collection.
I think you answered your question there with the last post. If your collection is going to diversify at some point, I would not change that one at all. I personally like the set up.
I say purchase a second lightweight upper and get it it's own lower as funds allow.
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That's a solid setup, even if a bit dated. I would put that rifle under the bed for a rainy day, and get a BCM RECCE.
I went from a similar setup to a KMR13, more for the hand real estate than the weight, but it really is quite a noticeable difference.
If I had several hundred dollars to spend on your current set up, I would use the money to enroll in a reputable tactical carbine school and buy as much ammunition as I could afford.
I went from a setup just like that to KMR13 SS410 upper and it's a little easier to carry.
I got rid of the EAG upper I had because it just wasn't very accurate.
That upper is not heavy, it weighs a little more than the most 'modern' uppers because it's built tough. The KMR is not as tough as the quad rails.
I say leave it alone and get something else. You go to re-profiling and rebuilding the whole thing and you're gonna wind up with a lot of money tied up in a used upper that's not worth much money-wise.
I'd get a different upper.
If I was going to do one thing, I would say go to a slick side, keymod or MLOK handguard. I really, really dig the BCM but there are a lot of cool options out there.
Cut the front sight, install the free float handguard of your preference and choot it!
Since it's so accurate, don't re-profile the barrel. Keep running the barrel as is until the bullets start hitting sideways.
If you do decide to re-profile or replace the barrel, get another stripped upper and build that one the way you want it instead
I'm considering chopping the front sight base to fit under a longer, lighter rail (perhaps a BCM KMR), and.....
So, you're dying to have the same thing everyone else has.........
So, you're dying to have the same thing everyone else has.........
A solution?
My first rifle was a DDv1 (carbine version of your rifle) several years ago. After a couple of classes, I switched rails to a DDLite FSP. I would either chop the FSP or not and get the rail of your choice. Or, get another upper of your choice (look at the EE).
I have an mfr rail that is no longer supported. Probably chang to a lw MI rail in the future
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Cut the front sight, install the free float handguard of your preference and choot it!
Since it's so accurate, don't re-profile the barrel. Keep running the barrel as is until the bullets start hitting sideways.
If you do decide to re-profile or replace the barrel, get another stripped upper and build that one the way you want it instead
I would leave it alone or what is stated above.
lawusmc0844
11-15-15, 13:22
I would leave it as is. Daniel Defense quad rails are surprisingly light compared to other brands, I still use the 9" Omega on my primary rifle. I wish I bought another DD rifle like yours before they came out with the Mil-Spec+ and ugly OEM accessories.
I would camo it up though if anything
Slvr Surfr
11-15-15, 13:29
Replacing the rail and chopping the front sight post will shave weight. I don't think that re-profiling the barrel will make that much difference except for the overall total (oz=lbs). I think the re-profile will be more headache than it's worth for not that much gain. It could also effect accuracy. I did the same mods you are talking about to my brother's Colt 6920 and shaved off 3 oz's from it's original weight. The biggest difference is the rifle feels completely different in the balance than it did before. No where near as front heavy as it was. It feels fast to point since I can also get more control near the muzzle. Also, replacing the optic to a lighter one will shave additional weight. Same with the white light.
OTOH,
If you plan on adding more guns to your collection, leave the DD upper alone and replace it with another suited to your needs. I second BCM, mainly because you can get it damn near any way you want it. They also provide the enhanced LW profile w/ fluted barrels with the KMR / KMR-A rail. You can get a BFH or standard barrel as well.
Keep the DD theme, get a DD upper rcvr group, DD LW chf barrel in your preferred length and gasblock. Then put a lightweight rail on it, my pick would be ALG Mlock.
I'm not as keen on DD rails, but I like their other components including BCG. And all are available for reasonable cost.
My favorite carbine lately is an iron sight kiss setup as above but with forged front sight base, 14.4" LW profile. Great balance, super easy to hit with.
turnburglar
11-15-15, 15:16
If you don't want to just buy a new rifle: sell the upper would be my choice. Buy the one you really want, especially with black friday coming up.
Theres nothing wrong with spending your money as you see fit. The "new" rifles are definitely a little sexier than the old ones. But that "old" government profile barrel has put a metric ton of dudes in the dirt.
Another option, if the upper is set up and shoots really well as is, leave it alone and invest in a new LW upper. A factory BCM upper, with KMR, ELW barrel, add a BCG and CH for $70 bucks. Might be a bit more than a new rail, and reprofiling, but to me it makes more sense if there isn't anything wrong with the current upper. .
^^^ This. I recently did exactly what Kain is suggesting above and couldn't be happier. Yes it's a more expensive way to go but it worked out great for me and now I'll take my newly homeless tack driver carbine length premium upper and mate it with a PSA premium lower for my son.
You got a solid rifle that is accurate and reliable. I don't see any reason why to switch anything up just for the sake of running what is "new" or to scratch an itch.
IMO your two reasons I don't think justify the expense and minimal increase in so called performance. I would just run your rifle as is and spend the saved cash on ammo, training,or whatever else that is important to you.
If you must,buy a new upper. It would be hard for me to sell a accurate and reliable upper.
buckshot1220
11-15-15, 21:34
I basically agree with what others have said that in the long term getting a new upper is the better option. Having a spare upper kicking around is never a bad thing.
What I really came to post was that I saw you mentioned a TA11 Acog. Let me say the standard and compact Acogs are great, but that TA11 is not what I thought it would be. The thing was huge and ridiculously heavy. Mounting that to a gun with a light barrel profile and lightweight handguard would be a sin. YMMV.
A lightweight profile barrel makes a huge difference in carrying and handling over gov't profile. If it was me, I'd probably just buy a new barrel, low pro gas block, and the KMR handguard, and sell the old barrel, FSB and quad rail. if you're gonna go light, might as well go with a true pencil profile with a 0.625" gas block journal and all. If you want to stick with a CL barrel, DD and BCM both make a good one. The BCM ELW barrel is an awesome profile. I also just bought a Faxon Gunner profile barrel (which is actually a little lighter out front han the BCM and DD LW barrels) and am very impressed by what I've seen from them.
Don't Fix what Ain't Broke.
What I would do in your position is buy a new upper reciever and BCG (BCM, DD, COLT, whatever) and start building. That way you can scratch your itch, gain exeperience modifing and still have a functional defensive weapon.
For lights, I'd replace your existing ight with a SUREFIRE FURY, same out put but cheaper than the 300. For an optic, I'd grab an aimpoint pro or a T series. Build the other upper with a low pro gas block and a Variable if you want.
You can put a IWC QD sling adapter on your current stock and then add a quality sling (VTAC,VCAS, etc.) and have a great SHTF rifle.
TacticalSledgehammer
11-16-15, 07:59
Keep it as is. That little bit of weight difference isn't worth the trade off. You have a rifle that does what you want it to. If it's really THAT heavy, lift some weights.
Coal Dragger
11-16-15, 11:46
Rocketman, do you have any experience with the V11LW? If so, what's the hand guard like in hand?
Can't speak for Rocketman, but I can speak for myself on this question. I picked up a V11 Pro last week with the 15" Slim Rail, and I really like the rail. It is, as the name implies slim, and doesn't seem to weigh much. It's nice to have a hand guard that isn't overly thick, and as an added bonus it's more comfortable to hang onto than bare Picatinny rail. I also personally like the extra real estate to lengthen my grip if I want to.
Even with the 18" S2W contour barrel that adds about 1.2lbs to the rifle compared to the LW contour barrel, the rifle is lively in the hands and doesn't feel front heavy. For comparison I have a Colt M4A1 SOCOM II that weighs pretty much the same as the V11 Pro, but the heavier RIS II rail on the Colt makes it feel bulkier and it balances more towards the front of the rifle.
So for my use I gain a stiffer, slightly longer barrel that is displaying a bit better precisiom with the DD over the Colt, but the DD weighs the same and balances better. Thanks Slim Rail, you're the best. Your results and preferences may vary, and the decision to modify your current upper or buy one outright is on you. I like the V11 LW a lot too, and at some point might just have to buy a complete upper.
Can't speak for Rocketman, but I can speak for myself on this question. I picked up a V11 Pro last week with the 15" Slim Rail, and I really like the rail. It is, as the name implies slim, and doesn't seem to weigh much. It's nice to have a hand guard that isn't overly thick, and as an added bonus it's more comfortable to hang onto than bare Picatinny rail. I also personally like the extra real estate to lengthen my grip if I want to.
Even with the 18" S2W contour barrel that adds about 1.2lbs to the rifle compared to the LW contour barrel, the rifle is lively in the hands and doesn't feel front heavy. For comparison I have a Colt M4A1 SOCOM II that weighs pretty much the same as the V11 Pro, but the heavier RIS II rail on the Colt makes it feel bulkier and it balances more towards the front of the rifle.
So for my use I gain a stiffer, slightly longer barrel that is displaying a bit better precisiom with the DD over the Colt, but the DD weighs the same and balances better. Thanks Slim Rail, you're the best. Your results and preferences may vary, and the decision to modify your current upper or buy one outright is on you. I like the V11 LW a lot too, and at some point might just have to buy a complete upper.
Thanks for sharing your experience; I finally had a chance to handle a V11 LW and it is impressive. I perceived a tremendous difference in the weight and balance of the gun that I believe would offer a speed advantage to the user.
A lightweight profile barrel makes a huge difference in carrying and handling over gov't profile. If it was me, I'd probably just buy a new barrel, low pro gas block, and the KMR handguard, and sell the old barrel, FSB and quad rail. if you're gonna go light, might as well go with a true pencil profile with a 0.625" gas block journal and all. If you want to stick with a CL barrel, DD and BCM both make a good one. The BCM ELW barrel is an awesome profile. I also just bought a Faxon Gunner profile barrel (which is actually a little lighter out front han the BCM and DD LW barrels) and am very impressed by what I've seen from them.
Thanks for the info on the Faxon offerings. I perused their website last night and they have some very interesting profiles, and if their barrels truly have the quality they suggest, they also look to be a value at that price point.
I also noticed they seem to predominantly offer a 1:8 twist. I've seen this twist rate come up more and more recently, I believe SIONICS utilizes this twist as well. I'll have to do some reading on its advantages and why some manufacturers utilize it over more conventional twist rates.
If it's really THAT heavy, lift some weights.
Wouldn't that make my arms tired?
Thanks for the substantive comment, bro.
Buy another upper built as you want it the DD is a quality piece and shouldn't be toyed with.
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