Daniel Defense DDM4V11 PRO

[Coal Dragger]

I picked up one of these rifles this week, and thought I would post an initial review. For those unfamiliar this is the Daniel Defense DDM4V11 series gun with the 15" Slim Rail (KeyMod), and instead of a 16" light weight or govt' profile chrome lined barrel this model uses their 18" S2W salt bath nitrided barrel, plus a few other changes. Fit and finish is good, and if I didn't know better I'd swear the whole rifle has been cerakoted black since all the aluminum bits match each other exactly. The long slim rail is nice, and despite the heavier barrel and total weight of 7.5lbs the rifle balances nicely since the barrel is thickest towards the receiver and the rail is nice and light. I have a Colt M4A1 SOCOM II that weighs the same with a slightly lighter contour barrel under the beefy DD RIS II rail, and frankly doesn't balance as well as the DD.

Furniture is the new Daniel Defense overmold stuff, which I hate the look of, but can't fault the function... in fact it is pretty damn comfortable for me and (huzzah!) the collapsible stock is nice and snug on the buffer tube and doesn't allow my beard hair to get pinched in between. I never knew you could have a beard, and use a collapsible stock that didn't rip hair out of your face. This model comes standard with a Geissele Super Dynamic 3 Gun trigger, which I have used in the past and had issues with in the aforementioned Colt. In the DD this trigger gave me no unintentional doubles, but it does make shooting deliberately for groups more challenging with the upside of being blazing fast on reset. It is a gun game trigger, and will get replaced with a Geissele 2 stage; I'll either sell it off or set it aside as a spare if I decide to play gun games later on. The PRO model also uses the Daniel Defense "Muzzle Climb Mitigator II" muzzle device, between the rifle length gas system and this comp the rifle doesn't display a lot of muzzle movement although strait to the rear recoil seems about the same as any other AR. This muzzle device is blasty and loud though, will probably get pulled off and replaced with a decent hybrid device at some point.

I did a quick accuracy (OK Molon... Precision) evaluation today until sundown when I got kicked off the range, to do this I mounted a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15X50 in a Nightforce Uni-Mount and went to work getting the rifle on paper at 50 yards then moved back to the 100 yard line. I was able to test Winchester M855, Wolf 55gr steel case, and two of my hand loads that have shot well in the Colt and my other DD 18" barrel Frankestein gun. Handloads consisted of 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tips in mixed range brass over 27.5gr of CFE 223 and a WSR primer, and 69gr Sierra Matchkings in new Lake City brass over 25.5gr of CFE 223 and a WSR primer. Today gave nice conditions of about 60 degrees with a steady 10MPH wind directly from behind shifting to a slight left to right.

Forgive the bad cell phone pics.

http://i.imgur.com/iMtX0N4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nsKnowy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9dVXRpZ.jpg

Not my best day of shooting, and 10 shot groups are a real bastard to concentrate hard enough on to pull off.

I initially sighted in with the M855 and shot my first group with it. I must have gotten a bunch of the worst lot of M855 I've ever seen, it won't shoot well in any of the three barrels I've tried it in. The first 5-6 rounds will do well, and then it gives the most random fliers, and settles back in. Not just in this rifle but in my other two as well. Frustrating.

Next up was Wolf 55gr that I ran mostly to test cycling with anemic ammo (passed with flying colors), which shot to the left quite a bit and I had to make a sight adjustment to get the rest of the group on my target... not great but it outshot the M855 in total group size including what got left on the cardboard. The M855 does have a tighter cluster aside from strange fliers.

I then ran my 55gr Nosler load, which also wanted to print to the left, with the first shot clipping the paper, at which point I dialed further to the right to get on the paper and ran the other 9 rounds. This load consistently shoots like the photo shows, which is not bad for being unsorted range pick up brass, plus I don't have Molon's chops shooting from the bench. I will run this load in virgin brass and re-test it since I think it has more potential.

My last test load before the sun dipped behind the Black Hills was my 69gr Matchking load. The first shot looked and felt good as it broke, and was 1" to the left of the bull. I couldn't resist the temptation to make another sight adjustment, and then ran another 19 rounds on top of my bull. There was a magazine change in there that I suspect interrupted the rifle's first natural point of aim off the bench rest. Like I said, I'm not a great bench rest shooter. Either way I will not complain about the results, this barrel and that ammo are capable of far better shooting than I am. I suspect a really skilled bench rest shooter, using a two stage trigger with a crisper trigger break could stack 20 rounds into a ragged hole. I'm just not the right guy, but I'm working on it.

I still have yet to test a hand load of 55gr Hornady FMJ, and 77gr Matchkings. I ran out of light today.

[Coal Dragger]

Now I need to decide on a more permanent sighting arrangement, the Nightforce is nice glass but adds every bit of 2lbs+ to the rifle.

[samuse]

I'd use an NXS 2.5-10X32.

You have a heavy barrel, I wouldn't worry about optic weight as much as profile.

[556BlackRifle]

CD, that looks like it's gonna be a great shooter. Congrats on the new rifle and thanks for sharing your initial impressions with us.

[556BlackRifle]

On an 18" precision rifle I'd say Nightforce is a no brainer. While lugging around 9.5 lbs of rifle doesn't seem like fun, the benefits of having a great scope outweigh the negatives IMO.

[Coal Dragger]

My short list of optics are the NXS 1-4X24 with the FC-3G, one of the various 1-6X24's, or the NXS 2.5-10X32.

Without the heavy 3.5-15X50 glass on top this rifle weighs exactly the same as my Colt does without optics, and is better balanced. It's actually pretty lively to the shoulder, I'm going to try to keep it that way if I can. Plus I signed up for a Pat McNamara class next September so I'll need to decide which of my two good carbines to use, and how to outfit the one I choose as a primary. I'm looking realistically at 9.5lbs either way I go with the carbine starting at 7.5lbs plus optic, BUIS, sling, magazine, and a white light.

If Nightforce would make 1-6 with that FC-3G reticle I'd be on it like stink on shit. Or while I making a wish list a 1-8X32 based on the 2.5-10X32 would be killer as well. I'd even buy a 2.5-10X32 since it is light and I liked the one I used to own, just wish the reticle was more bold for shooting quickly. Put the segmented FC-3G reticle in a 2.5-10X32 and I'd probably buy it. Are you listening wizards and goblins at Nightforce?

I of course can also stick a red dot sight on top, already have two to choose from, but it seems a waste of potential.

[Molon]

I did a quick accuracy (OK Molon... Precision) evaluation . . .



https://app.box.com/shared/static/muhh2jks15.gif

And kudos for shooting 10-shot groups!


...

[Coal Dragger]

Thanks for calling my results "groups", I think you're being generous.

I will try to run some more useful multiple 10 shot groups of each load at a later time.

I'm still frustrated with the M855, starting a respectable group and then watching it open up at random is infuriating. I don't claim to be a great shot; but dammit I can usually call a good or bad shot, and when the shot breaks and my sight picture looks good, tracks through recoil and returns to target, to find a round 3" away from POA I about lose my damn mind. This Winchester M855 makes me wonder how in the hell I ever cleaned the 500 yard portion of the USMC KD course with iron sights and a tight sling.

[samuse]

Big targets!

[Coal Dragger]

Yep. That and some luck!

[lowprone]

Now they use an ACOG.

[Coal Dragger]

That's what I have heard. The ACOG was just hitting the fleet the year I got deployed. Familiarized with it, but didn't shoot a qualification with one. I got out in late fall 2004 after returning to CONUS.

[lowprone]

I qualified with a M-14, dates me pretty much.

[Coal Dragger]

Yeah.... do you hate damn kids being on your lawn?

[FishTaco]

I am hungering, positively salivating over a DD M4V11, but the slightly cheaper 16" version. Nice review. I'm leaning towards an illuminated 1-4X scope since I positively will not spend the dough on an ACOG.

[Coal Dragger]

I like the 16" LW version too. Will probably end up with a 16" V11 LW upper at some point. Just wanted the 18" first because the S2W barrel is a known quantity for me, 7.5lbs isn't overly heavy to me, and I like a rifle length gas system.

I am contemplating taking a Trijicon RMR with the 3.25 MOA dot I already own off a revolver and slapping it on top of this V11 PRO and running that and a good BUIS for a bit. Once funds allow, then I might have to beta test a Leupold D-EVO behind the RMR. It's an optics package, that if it works as advertised would still keep weight to around 8.5lbs before sling, white light, and mahazine while doing everything I need it to. Was surprised to learn the D-EVO only weighs 13.8 ounces, and the RMR is less than 2 ounces plus a light weight riser for the RMR and I should be right at 1 pound for a total optics package. Not bad at all if it really works.

[Hwikek]

7.5 is heavy? Have you ever shot an AK or even a standard bolt action? A Lee Enfield or Mosin Nagant is a bit heavy, especially when you're trying to work the bolt while standing from your shoulder. My 870 is also heavier both in the front and metrically. It might be heavy if you add a Spectre DR, PEQ box, suppressor, and clip on thermal. But be thankful it's not an M24 or other military sniper rifle.

[Coal Dragger]

Ummm not to be dick, but I said 7.5lbs is not overly heavy. Reading comprehension, work on it.

Just because it's not heavy without stuff on it, doesn't mean it can't get there easily if you go overboard hanging shit off of it. Having humped an M16A4 around more than I care to think about with a bunch of crap all over it, plus a Javelin, CLU, or an AT-4 plus all the other combat load stuff I'm familiar with the concept of heavy.

[Hwikek]

Maybe I misinterpreted what you said before but when you said despite the weight of 7.5 pounds the gun balanced well I took that to mean you felt the rifle was a bit heavy. While this may seem hypocritical I do have the lightweight barrel on a DDM4V5 but that was also the only AR15 that was less than MSRP during Sandy Hook Panic Buying. I did also add an Eotech I got on the cheap to it as well but only because I got it for cheap off a nice user on here.

[Coal Dragger]

Right on. I picked up my Colt M4A1 SOCOM II the day of Sandy Hook. I happened to be in that day from a trip on the terrible RR and was finishing up a Brownell's order when the news came on. I upped the order, threw in a 10 pack of P-Mags, and then headed to Rapid City to hopefully acquire a good M4 before things got retarded. I already had my CMMG that was a pile of crap, and wanted something well made. Strangely the only AR's left not 3 hours after the news hit were the good ones, all the cheap shit had been panic bought.

Scoring a DDM4V5 during the late Sandy Hook unpleasantness must have taken some work.

[Hwikek]

Not really. The irony was that the last time before that I'd been in a gun store was a Sportsman's Warehouse where every single tactical rifle whether $400 or $2000 had either been sold or was in the process of being sold. Even saiga.308s without an modifications were completely bought up all across town in January. After that I was at a gun show where naturally someone tried to convince me to spend two grand on a basic Noveske that was still in stock at Rainier Arms for a lot less.

I found the rifle when I was just in my God brother's car headed over to visit his parents that April. He wanted to stop at one of the gun stores and while I was looking around for curiosity's sake I saw it. Back then the MSRP was $1649 and I found it priced at $1599. I immediately asked if the rifle was available after I realized it was a Daniel Defense, their nice little milspec plus tag instantly caught my eye; the clerk told me it was available and right then I told him he'd just made a sale. $10 charge for the state police background check and all I could say was thank you Portland. Now this was also the same store that had bins of Pro Mag AK mags for $40. They also had an M&P 10 rifle for I think $1400.

I don't know how nor do I care how this happened. All I know is that after putting in about a third of that price for good iron sights, some QD swivels, and an okay red dot I have a pretty sweet rifle. It does seem to have the point of impact shift at 100 yards once the barrel heats up but not enough that at 25 yards it won't stay within a B-8C.

[FishTaco]

So, this looks like a hell of a rifle, although I've seen some deals on shorter barrel versions with a flash suppressor and no brake. I'd be concerned about the anti-climb muzzle brake. The range I shoot at is overbuilt, with corrugated tin and steel all around and is loud as hell. I'm guessing that me shooting this on the line would ruin the day for everyone.

[Coal Dragger]

I also shoot at a range with overhead cover, and this brake is kind of loud. Not as bad as my Deadnaught F2 on one of my other uppers, but still louder than an A2 flash hider. I can feel the side blast kicking up sand that has seeped out of the sandbags I use to secure my bench rest on the concrete bench top.

This is not a huge issue for me since I have the tools to easily change out a muzzle device. I installed a Surefire Warcomp on my Colt and the more I shoot it, the better I like how it performs. Plus it is barely any louder than an A2 as far as I can tell. Might have to get another one.

Otherwise the extra $$$ for the V11 PRO also buys you a Geissele trigger, and a BCM Gunfighter charging handle for what it's worth. Ironically I'll probably change out the Geissele it came with for one of their two stage triggers.

This rifle was not perfect for my tastes, but it was the closest to what I wanted of any DD offering.

[XD40Colorado]

That's M855 for you.
It's a 3 moa ammo and is held to that spec.