Bronze Bore Brush...To Brush Or Not to Bush

[U&A]

FIRST, I'm sorry if this thread is duplicated but i couldn't find anything similar when searching.

I have seen well respected individuals in the world of firearms that WILL NEVER use a bronze brush on their bore as they say it does more harm than good, or its simply not needed and the bore doesn't need to be that clean to achieve great accuracy and good barrel life. Then there are the others that use them religiously. They require a spotless bore to get the accuracy they desire, and or say it is better for barrel life and so on.

I am a split of both for sure as I ASSUME most of us are....but I like hearing different view points. for my rifles and pistols the bore cleaning process is basically the same. I usually only end up running the bronze brush through a few times with the solvent, dry and wet patch process in there some were... I'm not really to picky.

My question is witch side of the fence are you one. or are you "on the fence" like me.

here is some perspective on bench rest shooters opinions in an old article (that I,m sure a lot of us have seen). I find the extreme deference's interesting and came to my own conclusion that if either way works fine for bench rest shooters than I have relaxed on the cleaning a little.
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

[Molon]

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired off the bench from one of my precision AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards. The group has an extreme spread of 0.428". The barrel had approximately 2,300 round through it at the time this group was fired. This barrel had been cleaned with a quality bronze bore-brush after every trip to the range.



https://app.box.com/shared/static/82p8qofbagaech8qgnjcuek6bzb5365c.jpg



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[U&A]

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired off the bench from one of my precision AR-15s at a distance of 100 yards. The group has an extreme spread of 0.428". The barrel had approximately 2,300 round through it at the time this group was fired. This barrel had been cleaned with a quality bronze bore-brush after every trip to the range.

....

Have you ever tied comparing groups with the same gun and ammo when you clean it with a nylon brush instead? it would be a very informative test and easy to do. Id be interested.

EDIT: maybe do the same exact method/ # of passes with the nylon brush as you would the bronze brush.

[Molon]

Have you ever tied comparing groups with the same gun and ammo when you clean it with a nylon brush instead? it would be a very informative test and easy to do. Id be interested.

EDIT: maybe do the same exact method/ # of passes with the nylon brush as you would the bronze brush.



Nope, because I borescope my barrels to determine which cleaning methods actually do the best job of cleaning the bore.

[U&A]

Nope, because I borescope my barrels to determine which cleaning methods actually do the best job of cleaning the bore.

understood. My question is based on whether or not the slightly dirtier barrel form using a nylon brush would affect your accuracy at all.

[HelloLarry]

Nylon or bronze, I don't think it makes any difference. They both break up carbon. Neither is hard enough to damage a barrel.

[rjacobs]

Neither is hard enough to damage a barrel.

This.

Brass/bronze brush is WAY softer than steel.

And I guess maybe I dont really get your question. Are you asking about an accuracy loss because of damaging the barrel due to using a brush(of any kind) or an accuracy loss from a clean vs. dirty barrel?

Clean vs. dirty barrel accuracy is very well documented. Some barrels take a couple shots(1-5 maybe) to calm down after a thorough cleaning(talking removing all traces of carbon, copper, etc...), some can take 50 to calm down. Thats a very well documented phenomenon. That is why a lot(most?) precision rifle shooters dont clean the bore until they start to lose accuracy. I fall into this camp. I have 400-500 rounds down the pipe of my SPR with Krieger barrel. I think I cleaned it after 50 rounds, but beyond that, I pull and clean the BCG and I clean out the barrel extension with some q-tips from time to time, but the barrel hasnt been touched and shoots under half(my shitty shooting not withstanding).

As far as an accuracy loss due to damaging the barrel from using a brass brush, sure anything is possible, but as long as you dont reverse directions while in the bore, the chance of damaging the bore from a brass brush is on the order of 0.

[U&A]

This.

Brass/bronze brush is WAY softer than steel.

And I guess maybe I dont really get your question. Are you asking about an accuracy loss because of damaging the barrel due to using a brush(of any kind) or an accuracy loss from a clean vs. dirty barrel?

Clean vs. dirty barrel accuracy is very well documented. Some barrels take a couple shots(1-5 maybe) to calm down after a thorough cleaning(talking removing all traces of carbon, copper, etc...), some can take 50 to calm down. Thats a very well documented phenomenon. That is why a lot(most?) precision rifle shooters dont clean the bore until they start to lose accuracy. I fall into this camp. I have 400-500 rounds down the pipe of my SPR with Krieger barrel. I think I cleaned it after 50 rounds, but beyond that, I pull and clean the BCG and I clean out the barrel extension with some q-tips from time to time, but the barrel hasnt been touched and shoots under half(my shitty shooting not withstanding).

As far as an accuracy loss due to damaging the barrel from using a brass brush, sure anything is possible, but as long as you dont reverse directions while in the bore, the chance of damaging the bore from a brass brush is on the order of 0.

"My question is witch side of the fence are you one. or are you "on the fence" like me."

I guess i don't know how else to ask the question. do you use a bronze brush or do you not. looking at the link of the bench rest shooters some do and some don't. and some have their opinions as to why.

[U&A]

I am only asking because

"I like hearing different view points"

just a topic of discussion/debate is all. or even if people would like to share their experiences if they have compared the 2 methods.

[rjacobs]

"My question is witch side of the fence are you one. or are you "on the fence" like me."

I guess i don't know how else to ask the question. do you use a bronze brush or do you not. looking at the link of the bench rest shooters some do and some don't. and some have their opinions as to why.

the answer is yes. IF I clean the barrel at all, I use a brass brush, I dont have any nylon brushes. I also have bore snakes for just about every caliber I shoot and probably use those more often.

[ABNAK]

For your standard AR barrel that is chrome lined the chrome lining is WAY harder than a bronze bristled brush. Hell, even the steel of an unlined barrel is much harder than bronze brushes.

[U&A]

For your standard AR barrel that is chrome lined the chrome lining is WAY harder than a bronze bristled brush. Hell, even the steel of an unlined barrel is much harder than bronze brushes.

I agree. but I also think it can be/sometimes is overdone with no benefits.

[Iraqgunz]

People should worry about important stuff.

[U&A]

People should worry about important stuff.

I guess I thought it would be a good discussion seeing the different opinions on other websites. Not worried at all

[ColtSeavers]

The only time I've ever cared is when I was taught to never use a steel brush and never force a steel rod down the bore.

[AM-15]

I have two uppers that go on a single lower.

The 16" carbine gas gets shot a lot with minor cleaning cause it is a "who cares as long as it goes bang and hits my target" rifle.
The 24" Lija rifle gas is my precision and gets cleaned after every session which at most is about 30 shots, give or take.

Both are cleaned with a bronze brush using Butches Bore Shine.

The 16" after cleaned still has copper fouling, so what, who cares.
The Lija is CLEAN and ready for my next outing.

Clean how you want for the purpose of the said rifle.

Fun gun, who cares.
Precision, I care.
Two different animals.

The barrels you own are different and need to experiment with cleaning procedures.

Fun gun is rough and hard to get spotless but still hits what I want it too. (good enough)
Precision gun is hand lapped and easy to clean spotless and will hit what I aim at cause that is what it is used for.

Do what you believe you need to do for barrel cleaning.

It all really comes down to a "feel good thing" for your fun gun.
It all comes down to what you need to do to keep your precision gun shooting what it is capable of

Clarence

[556BlackRifle]

Everybody has an opinion on this and I'm sure they firmly believe in doing things the way they do. Me, I prefer to use a patch to remove carbon fouling. When I need more, I'll use a nylon brush. I try to stay away from bronze but if I need it, I'll use it. The most important thing is to use a good quality rod and guide (J Dewey) and follow the path of the bullet. e.g. don't pull against or push in from the crown end. My favorite cleaning solvent is oil. (FP10 in my case.) IMO a little copper fouling is okay.

[diving dave]

I've used bronze brushes in my rifles for 20+ years, including my precision bolt guns. Never have seen an issue. The only "dont" in my book is using steel brushes. Although a steel tornado brush is great for shotgun bores.