Get a DSArms FAL now or wait for the FN SCAR-H?

[30 cal slut]

What do you guys think?

It's been a while since I've enjoyed some 7.62 mm black rifle goodness.

I had an original FN FAL a whiles back (when I was single and chasing girls), but hocked it (to finance aforementioned girl chasing).

I'm in no rush, but want to avoid the bum rush if this November turns out to be an Obamination.

[Gutshot John]

Get both...mags are interchangeable.

I have 2 DSA FALs that I love, but I'll still get a SCAR heavy at some point.

FAL parts will be lots more available, and overall you'll spend less money for a military quality rifle. Maintenance is ridiculously easy and soon you'll be WECSOGing happily.

You will wait 12-16 weeks for a DSA rifle, but in the end it's worth it.

[Ed L.]

Get both...mags are interchangeable.


I had not seen it mentioned anywhere that the mags would be interchangable.

[TOrrock]

Mag bodies are very similar, but are NOT interchangeable.

Get the DSA now, if/when the SCAR-H comes out, chances are you'll be buying that one too.

[Gutshot John]

I had not seen it mentioned anywhere that the mags would be interchangable.

Hmmm...I could have sworn the FNH rep at SHOT said that they used FAL mags. I obviously misunderstood.

[Jay Cunningham]

Mag bodies are very similar, but are NOT

Thank you for stating your FIRST HAND experience and not conjecture.

[Gutshot John]

Thank you for stating your FIRST HAND experience and not conjecture.

While I've not shot the SCAR, I'm pretty sure the FNH rep at SHOT said it was a FAL mag. In fact as I recall, I asked again to be sure I'd heard him right.

That is not conjecture, though it may be possible I misunderstood.

Is it possible that they use the FAL mag body and modify it in some way? It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer had done this.

It might also make conversion of existing FAL mags possible.

[Littlelebowski]

The DSA won't let you down nor will it lose value.

[TOrrock]

The mag bodies themselves are very similar, but the SCAR-H mags don't have the front or rear locking lugs that the FAL has, and it has a cut out for the lock up on the left side of the mag body, like a M16 mag does.

They do LOOK identical when they're in the weapon, but they aren't interchangeable.

I don't think it would be possible to cross them either.

No worries about thinking that they're interchangeable, at first blush, without comparing them out of the rifles, they look the same.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000825.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Subgun%20Aug%202-3%2008/P1000855.jpg


Back to the original topic though.......seriously, get the DSA FAL now and then later on you'll also pick up a SCAR-H.

This one or the other thing.......c'mon man....you know you're going to get both anyway..... :D

[Steel_Weasel]

Definitely a misunderstanding....SCAR-H & FAL mags are not interchangeable. All similarities end at the appearance. FNUSA rep showed me the two side by side.

Get the DSA FAL now and worry about SCAR-H if/when it arrives.

[Gutshot John]

The mag bodies themselves are very similar, but the SCAR-H mags don't have the front or rear locking lugs that the FAL has

That's actually too bad as the FAL mag insertion is superior to the AR mag well, but in looking at it I guess it would be difficult for those used to AR ergonomics.

It would also be nice to have lots of cheap FAL mags lying about, but I guess you need to make your money on something like magazines.

Given that, I may stick to the SCAR-L and keep my FALs.

[mpardun]

Get FAL now for sure...I have a stainless tactical paratrooper model and love it.

I understand that only 600 civi SCAR's (.556/.223) are to be released in 2008...qty based on total dealer orders (FN product) - best dealers are getting 1.

.308 hopefully to follow in '09 (should coincide with civi HK 416/417) - assuming a new AWB does not get passed first...but I digress.

[Gutshot John]

I don't think there is much to fear from a new AWB in the short-term as it would take an unprecedented legislative effort to get such a ban passed within a year of the next election. At best such legislation would take until Obama's "second" term to become a reality as it would cost him reelection.

The only caveat would be if Dems win a super-majority in the House/Senate, where anti-2a Dems overwhelm pro-2a Dems. This seems extremely unlikely.

Buy both weapons, but not out of fear of a new AWB if Obama gets elected.

[30 cal slut]

.......c'mon man....you know you're going to get both anyway..... :D

LMAO. I think Tim knows me too well. :D

I just need an excuse to buy another gun this weekend.

Maybe LAV will offer a battle rifle class sometime soon. ;)

[30russkie]

i think we all just hoped they were interchangable--lol

[rubberneck]

I don't know why so many people are SCAR happy. Having talked to a someone at 3rd group involved with testing a gun there have been some issues. I know those issues will eventually get worked out but I don't want to be the first kid on the block to own a gun that still has bugs in it just for the sake of owning it. Personally, I'd buy the platform that has proven itself over 40+ years before I'd throw money at the latest greatest toy.

[30 cal slut]

Well, my wife is gonna throttle me now.

Speaking of mags - are they pretty much the same by vendor, or should I be stocking up on DSA mags?

Thanks again for all the input.

-slut

[Gutshot John]

Speaking of mags - are they pretty much the same by vendor, or should I be stocking up on DSA mags?


I think even the DSA mags are rehabbed Steyr milsurp ones which are nice mags.

You should be ok with whatever Milsurp mags you find (I highly recommend Izzy mags if you can find them), but at $8 a pop, if you find a dud you're at least not into it for a lot of money.

Replace the spring and carry on smartly.

Inch (L1) mags will not fit and are more expensive.

[ralph]

I don't know why so many people are SCAR happy. Having talked to a someone at 3rd group involved with testing a gun there have been some issues. I know those issues will eventually get worked out but I don't want to be the first kid on the block to own a gun that still has bugs in it just for the sake of owning it. Personally, I'd buy the platform that has proven itself over 40+ years before I'd throw money at the latest greatest toy.

BINGO!! the correct answer! Frankly I'd never buy something like the SCAR until it's been out for awhile, Kinda like not buying a newly designed vehicle, until all the bugs get worked out..Sit back and relax..let those who are SCAR happy buy them and be the guinea pigs....

[Jay Cunningham]

BINGO!! the correct answer! Frankly I'd never buy something like the SCAR until it's been out for awhile, Kinda like not buying a newly designed vehicle, until all the bugs get worked out..Sit back and relax..let those who are SCAR happy buy them and be the guinea pigs....

If you think the SCAR platform hasn't been properly vetted at this point I'd say you are looking past the platform.

[Gutshot John]

If you think the SCAR platform hasn't been properly vetted at this point I'd say you are looking past the platform.

I don't know what he does or doesn't about the SCAR, but as a general rule I agree to avoid the first release of ANY new product. Car, computer, software or rifle there always seems to be a break-in period where new products get the bugs worked out.

Even EXCELLENT products go through this.

This being said I'm pretty confident FNH would rectify any problems.

[Jay Cunningham]

I don't know what he does or doesn't about the SCAR, but as a general rule I agree to avoid the first release of ANY new product. Car, computer, software or rifle there always seems to be a break-in period where new products get the bugs worked out.

Even EXCELLENT products go through this.

This being said I'm pretty confident FNH would rectify any problems.

What do you mean by "first release"?

[Gutshot John]

What do you mean by "first release"?

First release may not have been the best word choice, first run might be a better choice.

Generally speaking I mean a product that has gone through its development and "beta" (for lack of a better word) testing and becomes available to the "mass" market for the first time.

Producing smaller quantities a company can relatively easily maintain quality control. When production really ramps up, especially to meet unexpected demand, the increased numbers invariably reveal other problems that have to be addressed.

This does NOT mean the product "sucks", quite the contrary, even the "best" products go through growing pains.

Please understand I've NO criticism for the SCAR, in fact I want one, I just want to see what the first-run buyers have to say.

[recon]

Since were on this subject of DSA's FAL's. Should I place a order thru them or a other dealer? Prices are going to be the one to make up my mind on this.

[JG1911]

Since were on this subject of DSA's FAL's. Should I place a order thru them or a other dealer? Prices are going to be the one to make up my mind on this.


Depends on how fast you want it... When we placed our order with DSA it took about 16wks, this was for a SA58 paratrooper stock w/ 18" barrel. There is a dealer who has been mentioned over on FAL-Files that usually has some in-stock.

[Littlelebowski]

Try to avoid ordering through them if you want immediate satisfaction.

[Gutshot John]

If you're happy with a standard production model, several companies have them in stock. www.rguns.net is one.

If you're looking for some customization and can wait (16 weeks is about right) ordering from them may be your best option.

[rubberneck]

If you think the SCAR platform hasn't been properly vetted at this point I'd say you are looking past the platform.

As I said in my first post I spoke with someone that has had a fair amount of trigger time on both the light and heavy and he noted several issues with the gun that still needed to be fixed. That conversation took place at the end of June. The gun is not ready for prime time just yet. I am sure that they will get things squared away but the belief that the gun is 100% good to go right this second is misplaced.

[Gutshot John]

One other advantage to ordering from DSA is that if you have an FFL or know an FFL that will hook you up, you can get dealer pricing which represents a nice discount.

You will pay retail anywhere else.

[gunadict]

+1 on the FAL, I got my first DSA this year and I am going to order another shortly. Mine took 6 months to build because I got a SBR, and another 6 1/2 weeks for my tax stamp. Well worth the wait.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/fellony/DSAOSW.jpg

[chadbag]

If you're happy with a standard production model, several companies have them in stock. www.rguns.net is one.


good luck with R Guns.

I had to do a chargeback on them when they charged me for some hi-cap mags in 1994 for the USP and never shipped and never responded to me.

And they have run lots of ads which are against any dealer agreements they have for Aimpoint and other products (MAP issues etc)

[Gutshot John]

good luck with R Guns.

I had to do a chargeback on them when they charged me for some hi-cap mags in 1994 for the USP and never shipped and never responded to me.

And they have run lots of ads which are against any dealer agreements they have for Aimpoint and other products (MAP issues etc)

Thank you for the information, I certainly won't order anything from them if they violate their agreements.

I've never ordered from them, I've just seen that they have DSA on their page.

I'm personally of the get an FFL to order direct from DSA, even though you wait, you get a better product and the people are honest.

[Falboy]

Get a FAL, you'll never regret it. I built mine the first time 8yrs. ago. It's changed allot over the yrs., but that's the beautifull thing about it, it can and will change to meet your mood/needs/desires. Enjoy your FAL. ;)

[H2O MAN]

What do you guys think?

It's been a while since I've enjoyed some 7.62 mm black rifle goodness.

Why wait? ... Have a high quality MK14 built up for you and enjoy some 7.62mm x 51 NATO EBR goodness :D

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Mod-1_T-1.jpg

[Gutshot John]

You mean other than the fact that he can get both a DSA FAL and a SCAR-H for the same price/quality?

I'd rather wait. ;)

[H2O MAN]

I'd rather wait. ;)

Not me :)

[Gutshot John]

Not me :)

Apparently not, but some have money to burn, some don't. :p

If the choice is either/or, than there's probably a cost consideration.

If there's not, than why get one obsolete rifle, when you can get two others that will be more functional, and still probably cost less money?

[Broadway]

You will never lose any money on a DSA FAL.

You can actually get one.

The mags are cheap and available. This is one area where the two will never be close.

It's battle proven with decades of hard use behind it, and it has sent countless folk into another plain of existence.

Obsolete, only by years, not performance. ;)

I too want a SCAR, but then I already own a FAL.

[H2O MAN]

If there's not, than why get one obsolete rifle, when you can get two others that will be more functional, and still probably cost less money?

The only one that's not "obsolete" is the one that's not available yet...

[Gutshot John]

The only one that's not "obsolete" is the one that's not available yet...

Many obsolete weapons are still quite functional, see 1911. Especially when you don't have to spend thousands to get them to work as they should.

The FAL was ahead of its time, not to mention the combat record to prove it. That you can get three FALs (or one FAL and one SCAR when its available) for the same price as a combat ready m14, should quantify that.

[Jay Cunningham]

Please do not turn this into an M1A vs. FAL discussion.

[30 cal slut]

i guess obsolescense is in the eye of the beholder. if i pull the trigger and it goes bang and it hits the intended target, that's good enough for me.

so i got one. :D guess i'll forego a year of eating out to finance a scar-h. i'm a rifle whore, what can i say.

i like the fact that the mags are relatively cheap.

[H2O MAN]

That you can get three FALs (or one FAL and one SCAR when its available) for the same price as a combat ready m14, should quantify that.

You need to get yourself a new gun smith, you are getting ripped off or you are being fed and passing on bogus information.

[Gutshot John]

You need to get yourself a new gun smith, you are getting ripped off or you are being fed and passing on bogus information.

That's just it. I don't NEED a smith with a FAL. I can do all my own work. So the assumption I'm "getting ripped off" is flawed.

As for bogus information...I think more than just me has addressed the deficiencies of the M-14, and the cost involved with making one function as it should. The M-14 as currently used by the military costs about 3-4x that of a combat ready FAL. The M1A is not a military quality weapon, which is why no military (especially the US) uses one. And for the cost to make it one (hardening the receiver etc, replacing commercial parts, adding your Sage stock etc) you can buy both a DSA FAL and a SCAR-H. That's a pretty high opportunity cost for an M14.

Even still...what is the title of this thread? Where is the M-14 even an option?

[H2O MAN]

Get the DSA now, if/when the SCAR-H comes out, chances are you'll be buying that one too.

Templar gave the best advice and I offered a viable alternative just in case the OP didn't want to wait.


BTW:

How much will a SCAR-H sell for on the civilian market?
How much are mags going to be?
When will the H be available?

Thanks :)

[casio02478]

I am waititng for the scar H, but that is beacuse I am poor and can't afford both :(.