Another "help me choose armor plates" :-)

[texancarbine73]

Hi guys! I'm not LEO/military and wanted to get some opinions. I'm in shape but not sure what is reasonable as far as weight and comfort/fit.

I'm buying them because a few training courses I want to do demand hard plates and there is a senator (D) who recently introduced a bill to ban armor for civilians. Better have and not need it...

I have done research and I want something that stops M855 and XM193. I have decided on level IV.

Everyone recommends tripple curve. There are more options as single curve.

Then we have the weight/price issue. Since I Don't have 1000$ to spend I'm stuck with plates that weigh 6.7-7.5 lbs that are certified NIJ.
and are in the 200-250$ range.

Is this weight "acceptable"? I'm not planning on running miles or to go in "missions" with this.

Lastly, is single curve not so good?

Options are Highcom, Paraclete and bulletproofme.

Open to suggestions or other vendors as long as they are certified NIJ and within the price range of course

Thanks guys!

[Ledanek]

I'm not LEO/military/SME

When it came to comfort shouldering a rifle, my initial experience with single curve, was not...comfortable. Plus it had to do with the plate carrier too, TAG Banshee. Then evolution took place.
Came across Roecar's modification of TAG Banshee. Then it got better shouldering a rifle. Then more evolution.
A Crye JPC became available at the Equipment Exchange Forum. Was slicker and lighter. Then more evolution.
A swimmer's cut multi curve became available at the Equipment Exchange Forum. Shouldering a rifle change dramatically IMHO. Then more evolution.
The single curve became my rear plate.

In essence, the gears you'll acquire is a constant, evolution. I too, Don't have $1000. If my wife finds out...it will be.

Read the threads, notice a pattern, go to other websites, don't get hang up on one Italian or German brand car.
See what actual LEO/military/SME buys for themselves, and not their departments.

I can't tailor anything for you because your needs will vary from everyone's. Go to the Gear Porn thread...you'll "see" a trend.
Visit the vendors that support M4C. Get your specs from them. Visit EE thread for the discounts.

[Wake27]

The acceptable weight is something only you can decide because that will depend on your body. Triple curve fits the general body shape better, so its usually regarded as more comfortable. Level IV can come in the form of stand alone plates or plates ICW soft backers which gives you more options. Depending on the carrier, you may want backers for a little bit of padding (like me). It also helps to break up the cost a little because you can buy the backers first, and the plates later. Obviously you won't have full protection until you have both, but its better than nothing. Just make sure you buy the same cut for both. I pulled a rookie mistake and did not which is why I'm trying to sell mine right now.

[texancarbine73]

thanks guys for taking them time to write! It seems Ill go with the Mayflower APC. Not bad price and looks way better for shouldering a rifle!
Cheers

[Wake27]

SKD just posted a pic teasing a sale of the APC this week, I think on Tuesday. It's a great carrier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[texancarbine73]

SKD just posted a pic teasing a sale of the APC this week, I think on Tuesday. It's a great carrier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just saw that!!! Alarm set ;)
Thanks!!!!

[Tigereye]

Did you see these on the EE?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176528-Like-New-Velocity-Systems-Plates-or-Soft-Armor-Backers

[texancarbine73]

yeah I saw it! thanks dude but outside my price

Did you see these on the EE?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176528-Like-New-Velocity-Systems-Plates-or-Soft-Armor-Backers

[scooter22]

Can someone elaborate on the difference between Level IV stand alone vs. III/ IV requiring soft backing?

Assuming stand alones offer more protection, why are they sometimes less expensive?

[Wake27]

From my understanding there isn't a difference, as far as protection. It's just whether that goal of LVL IV is accomplished with one hard plate or with a hard plate and a soft backer, as log as you've paired the right products together. As for the cost, it's all about the quality of the plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[texancarbine73]

Got one coming my way!!
SKD just posted a pic teasing a sale of the APC this week, I think on Tuesday. It's a great carrier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scooter22]

From my understanding there isn't a difference, as far as protection. It's just whether that goal of LVL IV is accomplished with one hard plate or with a hard plate and a soft backer, as log as you've paired the right products together. As for the cost, it's all about the quality of the plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why does Velocity list theres as III/IV vs. just IV?

Also, I have read that all plates regardless of stand alone or not, should be backed by soft armor? Thoughts?

[Wake27]

III/IV = Level III standalone or Level IV ICW backers whereas Level IV is just stand alone I assume. I could be wrong though. And I've never heard that second part. Kinda defeats the purpose of stand alone. Though maybe it was specifically meant for steel plates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[malstew123]

If you are talking about the Velocity P34's about a III/IV ICW, you need both the plate and a backer IOT meet the III or IV threat protection level.

http://www.velsyst.com/store/236/37/P34-Level-III--IV-ICW.html

from their website
"WARNING: Must be worn In Conjunction With VS-13A Soft Armor to achieve the stated threat level. This plate is certified with Velocity Systems VS-13A Soft armor, and is not tested/certified with other manufacturers' soft armor.
The P34 is NOT a Stand-Alone Plate for ANY threat level. To assume this plate is a "Level III Stand-Alone and Level IV In-Conjunction WIth" is INCORRECT."

[scooter22]

If you are talking about the Velocity P34's about a III/IV ICW, you need both the plate and a backer IOT meet the III or IV threat protection level.

http://www.velsyst.com/store/236/37/P34-Level-III--IV-ICW.html

from their website
"WARNING: Must be worn In Conjunction With VS-13A Soft Armor to achieve the stated threat level. This plate is certified with Velocity Systems VS-13A Soft armor, and is not tested/certified with other manufacturers' soft armor.
The P34 is NOT a Stand-Alone Plate for ANY threat level. To assume this plate is a "Level III Stand-Alone and Level IV In-Conjunction WIth" is INCORRECT."

So, why is it III and IV, rather than IV?

Does IV not cover III threats?

[Grizzly16]

Hi guys! I'm not LEO/military and wanted to get some opinions. I'm in shape but not sure what is reasonable as far as weight and comfort/fit.

I'm buying them because a few training courses I want to do demand hard plates and there is a senator (D) who recently introduced a bill to ban armor for civilians. Better have and not need it...

I have done research and I want something that stops M855 and XM193. I have decided on level IV.

Everyone recommends tripple curve. There are more options as single curve.

Then we have the weight/price issue. Since I Don't have 1000$ to spend I'm stuck with plates that weigh 6.7-7.5 lbs that are certified NIJ.
and are in the 200-250$ range.

Is this weight "acceptable"? I'm not planning on running miles or to go in "missions" with this.

Lastly, is single curve not so good?

Options are Highcom, Paraclete and bulletproofme.

Open to suggestions or other vendors as long as they are certified NIJ and within the price range of course

Thanks guys!
Around 200 a plate that stops up to LVL IV and all common AR threats: http://store.appalachiantraining.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F1-4400-10x12

That said. Level IV doesn't mean it stops M855 and M193. Level IV means it will stop one round of 30-06 armor piercing ammo. Some companies rate their plates to also stop other rounds so you'll have to research that and see if you trust a given company. Are you really expecting to need to stop 30-06AP? Have you thought if the weight and cost penalty to stop that over just the AR threats you listed is worth it?

There are some great plates that aren't lvl IV but stop the two rounds you list, such as: http://store.appalachiantraining.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AT-STOP-10x12-Shooters or http://www.hesco.com/products/armor/600-series/ (look at the LVL III+). They are more expensive but they are multi curve and much lighter. There is a world of comfort difference when moving to something like this and a GOOD carrier. I spend a year or so wearing 10 lb steel single curve plates in a condor carrier for training while trying to pick my end goal for plates and budget. During that time I spent time with a mayflower APC and Velocity Systems scarab light carrier sporting triple curve ceramics that weighed 5 lb. Your ability to move, go prone, work with endurance and over all comfort is much much better with a good carrier and plates.

Even if you say "its a few pounds I can handle it" remember a loaded AR mag is about 1 lb. So dropping 10lb of plate weight turns into being able to carry 300 extra rounds of ammo, better comms, better med kit, a gallon of water or just move faster. If you are only going to get one set of plates and one carrier don't do steel. The hesco single curve plates from AT will save you nearly 6lb over a set of steel plates with heavy spall coating.

[Jim D]

So, why is it III and IV, rather than IV?

Does IV not cover III threats?

Correct, a level IV plate is almost never tested for multi hit protection in a lab, or by the NIJ.

This is one of the reasons why a 3+ type plate is usually the most appropriate threat level plate for people CONUS.

[texancarbine73]

Thanks I appreciate you time to respond. I agree and understand your point 100%
I started looking at a "basic Banshee" PC and digging deeper saw how a Mayflower APC could be slicker and more comfortable for not much more $ so I went with that.
I really wanted to get the lightest plate I could but at a price I could afford they were all single curve or be single curve and 1.25 inches thick.
I decided to go with a known high quality brand after watching many videos on YT and reading about their performance.
They are level IV multi curve and weight 7 lbs each but being my first set of plates I think I did good at 100$ for a "quality ceramic" that stops M855 and M193 rounds.
3+ or 3 that would be lighter and stop those rounds would be 2-3 times more $. If nothing else they would be my training plates and for 200$ they are almost 1/2 price those Ar500 3+ plates!

Again, thanks to all for their words. M4C has helped me to make my decision

Cheers and have a great TG!

Around 200 a plate that stops up to LVL IV and all common AR threats: http://store.appalachiantraining.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F1-4400-10x12

That said. Level IV doesn't mean it stops M855 and M193. Level IV means it will stop one round of 30-06 armor piercing ammo. Some companies rate their plates to also stop other rounds so you'll have to research that and see if you trust a given company. Are you really expecting to need to stop 30-06AP? Have you thought if the weight and cost penalty to stop that over just the AR threats you listed is worth it?

There are some great plates that aren't lvl IV but stop the two rounds you list, such as: http://store.appalachiantraining.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AT-STOP-10x12-Shooters or http://www.hesco.com/products/armor/600-series/ (look at the LVL III+). They are more expensive but they are multi curve and much lighter. There is a world of comfort difference when moving to something like this and a GOOD carrier. I spend a year or so wearing 10 lb steel single curve plates in a condor carrier for training while trying to pick my end goal for plates and budget. During that time I spent time with a mayflower APC and Velocity Systems scarab light carrier sporting triple curve ceramics that weighed 5 lb. Your ability to move, go prone, work with endurance and over all comfort is much much better with a good carrier and plates.

Even if you say "its a few pounds I can handle it" remember a loaded AR mag is about 1 lb. So dropping 10lb of plate weight turns into being able to carry 300 extra rounds of ammo, better comms, better med kit, a gallon of water or just move faster. If you are only going to get one set of plates and one carrier don't do steel. The hesco single curve plates from AT will save you nearly 6lb over a set of steel plates with heavy spall coating.

[Wake27]

If you are talking about the Velocity P34's about a III/IV ICW, you need both the plate and a backer IOT meet the III or IV threat protection level.

http://www.velsyst.com/store/236/37/P34-Level-III--IV-ICW.html

from their website
"WARNING: Must be worn In Conjunction With VS-13A Soft Armor to achieve the stated threat level. This plate is certified with Velocity Systems VS-13A Soft armor, and is not tested/certified with other manufacturers' soft armor.
The P34 is NOT a Stand-Alone Plate for ANY threat level. To assume this plate is a "Level III Stand-Alone and Level IV In-Conjunction WIth" is INCORRECT."

Thanks for the correction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lymanbishop]

Can someone elaborate on the difference between Level IV stand alone vs. III/ IV requiring soft backing?

Assuming stand alones offer more protection, why are they sometimes less expensive?


Prices depend on materials used. Typically more expensive materials perform better and cost more.

[Seagunner]

Black Friday sale. https://www.shellbacktactical.com/BLACK-FRIDAY-prevail-series-level-iv-plates-deal/ 2 plates $284 shipped


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk