View Full Version : LMT upper vs BCM upper
Im planning on buying the LMT 16in upper. But i was wondering how the BCM is compared to that. Anyone with experiance?
spamsammich
08-05-08, 16:53
I would go BCM. I got some really good pricing on LMT so I went with them and one of my uppers has some funny tool chatter marks or something on both sides underneath the rail. It gives the upper an almost serrated surface where it should be smooth. Doesn't really matter much but tears my patches apart when I'm cleaning off the surface of the upper and leaves bits of fabric stuck to the marks.
Either company makes good stuff, you'll just pay more for the LMT name.
Both are high quality. Since the BCM is cheaper than the LMT, I would say that it is the better value.
C4
add to that the BCM will be parked under the FSB,use proper pins to secure the FSB,and have better QC on every single upper .:rolleyes:
rifleshooter
08-05-08, 18:49
I would go BCM. I got some really good pricing on LMT so I went with them and one of my uppers has some funny tool chatter marks or something on both sides underneath the rail. It gives the upper an almost serrated surface where it should be smooth. Doesn't really matter much but tears my patches apart when I'm cleaning off the surface of the upper and leaves bits of fabric stuck to the marks.
Either company makes good stuff, you'll just pay more for the LMT name.
Why not contact LM&T and give them a chance to fix your machining problem.:rolleyes: I for one would like to know just how they would respond.;)
spamsammich
08-05-08, 19:26
Why not contact LM&T and give them a chance to fix your machining problem.:rolleyes: I for one would like to know just how they would respond.;)
Because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't effect the function of the gun in any way except for cosmetics. it's like the fact that it doesn't form a perfect airtight union with my Mega lower, it doesn't matter to the overall function of the gun.
Some people care about cosmetics so I hedge my bets and tell them to go with BCM. Personally, I like all the LMT complete uppers I've got or handled perfect finish or not. Especially considering the price I paid for mine.
I don't doubt LMT would take real good care of me, maybe I'd send it in if all the uppers I've seen had the same issue but they don't. No biggie.
rifleshooter
08-05-08, 19:40
Because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't effect the function of the gun in any way except for cosmetics. it's like the fact that it doesn't form a perfect airtight union with my Mega lower, it doesn't matter to the overall function of the gun.
Some people care about cosmetics so I hedge my bets and tell them to go with BCM. Personally, I like all the LMT complete uppers I've got or handled perfect finish or not. Especially considering the price I paid for mine.
I don't doubt LMT would take real good care of me, maybe I'd send it in if all the uppers I've seen had the same issue but they don't. No biggie.
Well if you would use a Tipton Bore Guide that would correct any snagging patch problems.;)
spamsammich
08-05-08, 19:47
Well if you would use a Tipton Bore Guide that would correct any snagging patch problems.;)
Sorry, to clarify. the machine "chatter" or tool marks are on the outer portion of the upper receiver, just under the flat top rail, on both sides. It looks like the tool was a little worn when they milled the channel. It feels sorta like shark skin in that area so when I wipe the upper in one direction, the paper towels or patches get torn up. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the barrel.
To be clear, if I hadn't gotten a great price on the LMT uppers, I'd be in line for a BCM. I see them as equal in terms of overall quality, with a tip of the hat to BCM for being so thorough and having stellar CS.
So you made me go to the safe and check my LMT,mine is smooth . :D
rifleshooter
08-05-08, 20:00
Sorry, to clarify. the machine "chatter" or tool marks are on the outer portion of the upper receiver, just under the flat top rail, on both sides. It looks like the tool was a little worn when they milled the channel. It feels sorta like shark skin in that area so when I wipe the upper in one direction, the paper towels or patches get torn up. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the barrel.
To be clear, if I hadn't gotten a great price on the LMT uppers, I'd be in line for a BCM. I see them as equal in terms of overall quality, with a tip of the hat to BCM for being so thorough and having stellar CS.
Well everything I have bought from The Bravo Company has been first rate quality. So I would also have no problem buying their branded uppers.;)
Robb Jensen
08-05-08, 20:56
BCM = better and cheaper IMHO, but there's also nothing wrong with LMT. YMMV.
Failure2Stop
08-06-08, 08:21
BCM = better and cheaper IMHO, but there's also nothing wrong with LMT. YMMV.
My opinion as well.
The performance of the BCM at it's price-point is exceptional.
For a little perspective- I bought a BCM middie when supply was zero and demand was high. I payed far more than you will have to and I am still a happy camper. I have LMTs that are great, but I only bought them because Colt and BCM were unobtainable at the time of purchase and the LMT was on the shelf.
thespyhunter
08-06-08, 10:23
I was trying to decide between an LMT or BCM upper to go on my LMT lower. I have a RRA chrome lined Entry Tac upper on it now, but after reading so much here, I decided that I needed to upgrade to something I knew was GTG. Bear in mind, I have had no trouble at all with the RRA upper. I plan on using this weapon as a back-up to the Colt the state Highway Patrol issues, as well as home defence /SHTF weapon. So with that in mind, I ordered a BCM 16" M4 from Grant. After reading the realities of workmanship and materials contained in the info here on this site, I felt the BCM was the best deal for the money.
rubberneck
08-06-08, 11:13
What am I missing here? I bought a 16 inch LMT upper with handguards (minus the BCG and charging handle) for $450 delivered to my front door. Isn't that what BCM sells their uppers for (minus handguards, BCG and charging handle), even before shipping? Or does BCM make dealers follow MAP?
rifleshooter
08-06-08, 11:41
I was trying to decide between an LMT or BCM upper to go on my LMT lower. I have a RRA chrome lined Entry Tac upper on it now, but after reading so much here, I decided that I needed to upgrade to something I knew was GTG. Bear in mind, I have had no trouble at all with the RRA upper. I plan on using this weapon as a back-up to the Colt the state Highway Patrol issues, as well as home defence /SHTF weapon. So with that in mind, I ordered a BCM 16" M4 from Grant. After reading the realities of workmanship and materials contained in the info here on this site, I felt the BCM was the best deal for the money.
Has the RRA upper given you problems? Has it had failures? Doe it not shoot good groups?
You posted{no trouble at all} so why spend the money to replace good working upper? Is it just to say I have a LM&T or BCM upper?
thespyhunter
08-06-08, 12:17
Has the RRA upper given you problems? Has it had failures? Doe it not shoot good groups?
You posted{no trouble at all} so why spend the money to replace good working upper? Is it just to say I have a LM&T or BCM upper?
I really enjoy this site ~ much more than TOS ~ and I dont want to crack heads with anyone or get sideways either. There is some real good info here. That being said , to answer your question , I bought the BCM because I believe the BCM to be a better product...... and what if I bought one just because I can? Is it a bad idea to have two uppers? I'm thinking I would like to build another weapon ;)
spamsammich
08-06-08, 12:24
I don't really see harm in having more of a good thing. Enjoy your new rifle.
tango-papa
08-06-08, 12:50
This thread is yet another great example of why I enjoy visiting this sight daily.
In order to complete my first 'adult' AR15, I was planning to purchase (from G&R), an LMT upper complete with all LMT components. However, upon further reading, and what I'm sure is way overanalyzing this purchase, am now leaning toward either a:
1. BCM 16" Mid Length Upper complete with all BCM components (G&R)
2. Noveske N4 Light Recce basic 16" upper (Noveske)
3. Custom upper with Vltor MUR-1A, Noveske 16" Light Recce barrel, BCM or LMT BCG, CH, etc. (G&R)
The finishing touches will be:
1. Troy rear sight
2. DD Omega
3. Aimpoint
4. Surefire Scout
5. Larue FUG
6. Rail covers - undecided
Decisions, decisions...:p
~tp
rifleshooter
08-06-08, 16:32
I really enjoy this site ~ much more than TOS ~ and I dont want to crack heads with anyone or get sideways either. There is some real good info here. That being said , to answer your question , I bought the BCM because I believe the BCM to be a better product...... and what if I bought one just because I can? Is it a bad idea to have two uppers? I'm thinking I would like to build another weapon ;)
No not a bad idea I bought my S&WM&P15 a year ago and it's been a no problem great shooting AR.
I bought and extra BMC bolt and a standard LM&T bolt&carrier. Then last Month my local dealer got in a LM&T Defender 2000 with a SOPMOD buttstock and their up graded hand grip. They let me take a look at it and I went home and fetched my Kimber TAC II .45 and we did a trade in on the LM&T.:D
So having a lot of extra stuff is good. But I kept my S&W and trust it with my life as I now also trust my LM&T.:)
I'm also in the market for a new AR and keep hearing all this talk about BCM. I know LMT, Colt, etc. but who is Bravo Company in relation to these others?
I'm also wanting a rail and keep hearing about the DD Omega. On Grants site there are several options for rails on the BCM uppers. Any particular you guys recommend for it? http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM
rifleshooter
08-06-08, 20:11
I'm also in the market for a new AR and keep hearing all this talk about BCM. I know LMT, Colt, etc. but who is Bravo Company in relation to these others?
I'm also wanting a rail and keep hearing about the DD Omega. On Grants site there are several options for rails on the BCM uppers. Any particular you guys recommend for it? http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM
Anything you buy from The Bravo Company will be a quality product. They are helpful and honest and will quickly ship your order.:)
I'm also in the market for a new AR and keep hearing all this talk about BCM. I know LMT, Colt, etc. but who is Bravo Company in relation to these others?
I'm also wanting a rail and keep hearing about the DD Omega. On Grants site there are several options for rails on the BCM uppers. Any particular you guys recommend for it? http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UPR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBCOM
Bravo Company USA = BCM.
The Omega is a great rail at a great price. This would be my first choice.
C4
Bravo Company USA = BCM.
The Omega is a great rail at a great price. This would be my first choice.
C4
Thanks Brad, I'll probably be going with the Omega after all the talk I keep hearing about it.
What I was wondering about BCM though is just who they are compared to the other makers. I knew BCM stood for Bravo Company. I just haven't heard much about them and want to know more about them before I swipe my card.
Thanks Brad, I'll probably be going with the Omega after all the talk I keep hearing about it.
What I was wondering about BCM though is just who they are compared to the other makers. I knew BCM stood for Bravo Company. I just haven't heard much about them and want to know more about them before I swipe my card.
I just orederd the 16 in BCM carbine yesterday. I was going to go LMT but grant and several others said that BCM was better. Heres their site. http://bravocompanymfg.com/
thespyhunter
08-08-08, 07:09
I just orederd the 16 in BCM carbine yesterday. I was going to go LMT but grant and several others said that BCM was better. Heres their site. http://bravocompanymfg.com/
My BCM 16"M4 from G&R is on the brown truck somewhere here in Tulsa, on its way to my office somtime this morning . The rest of the goodies I ordered from Bravo Company will be here Tuesday.
LMT
Resale value is much higher. You can sell used LMT uppers for the cost of a new BCM upper. Plus LMT has been around much longer which means less risk when it comes to possible warranty issues in the future. There is more of a chance of LMT being around in the future then BCM simply due to statistics. This is not a knock on BCM, its just a fact of business.
I have also had amazing experience with LMTs customer service. I bought a used rear LMT BUIS and it would not tighten down onto one of my rails. I am sure the rail was out of spec but I called up LMT, they sent me a UPS prepaid shipping label, I sen the sight in and they sent me a brand new one.
The specs between the two uppers aren't so different that any average shooter will ever notice. And usually not any experienced shooter either.
I like BCM and they sell quality stuff, but I like well established companies better if I had to only choose between the two and couldn't have both. Not a knock on BCM, I own one of their 16" uppers and plan on getting an 11.5" upper when they are available, it's just how I view it.
It's a win-win either way if your choices are between LMT & BCM.
I would buy from either company without hesitation. Paul from Bravo is certainly one of the good guys in this industry.
thespyhunter
08-08-08, 10:21
It's a win-win either way if your choices are between LMT & BCM.
I would buy from either company without hesitation. Paul from Bravo is certainly one of the good guys in this industry.
+1
If you do the research, and compare the features of an LMT and a BCM upper, there is no difference ~ the only difference is the lazer engraved branding, and the fact that all the parts of a BCM upper are parkerized before assembly. Dollar for dollar, the BCM is the better deal, IMHO.
I was ready to pull the trigger on an LMT upper, but decided to wait till the BCM's were availible. After all, it is going on an LMT lower. I only wish that BCM would produce their own lowers as well :(. In my mind, BCM produces alot less product than LMT, so I equate that to a little more time to pay attention to detail. And after all I have read about the attention Paul @ BCM pays to detail, I could not justify the extra $35 for the LMT name. But, if the BCM's were not going to be availible for a while, I would be receiving an LMT upper within the next hour instead of a BCM ~ Brown should be here any minute ;)
+1
If you do the research, and compare the features of an LMT and a BCM upper, there is no difference ~ the only difference is the lazer engraved branding, and the fact that all the parts of a BCM upper are parkerized before assembly. Dollar for dollar, the BCM is the better deal, IMHO.
I was ready to pull the trigger on an LMT upper, but decided to wait till the BCM's were availible. After all, it is going on an LMT lower. I only wish that BCM would produce their own lowers as well :(. In my mind, BCM produces alot less product than LMT, so I equate that to a little more time to pay attention to detail. And after all I have read about the attention Paul @ BCM pays to detail, I could not justify the extra $35 for the LMT name. But, if the BCM's were not going to be availible for a while, I would be receiving an LMT upper within the next hour instead of a BCM ~ Brown should be here any minute ;)
BCM lowers may be available this year from what the website says.
thespyhunter
08-08-08, 14:06
BCM lowers may be available this year from what the website says.
Where did you see that?
My BCM 16"M4 from G&R is on the brown truck somewhere here in Tulsa, on its way to my office somtime this morning . The rest of the goodies I ordered from Bravo Company will be here Tuesday.
Thats awesome.. post pics and a report:D. Mine should be here tuesday:cool:
Where did you see that?
http://bravocompanymfg.com/products.html
thespyhunter
08-08-08, 14:55
http://bravocompanymfg.com/products.html
Thanks !! :)
rifleshooter
08-08-08, 15:21
I just orederd the 16 in BCM carbine yesterday. I was going to go LMT but grant and several others said that BCM was better. Heres their site. http://bravocompanymfg.com/
I sure like products from The Bravo Company but for Grant or anyone posting that The Bravo Companys AR uppers being better then LM&Ts uppers I sure would not go that far.:rolleyes:
I have both an LMT and a BCM ,in a side by side comp the Bcm is better.
rifleshooter
08-08-08, 16:05
I have both an LMT and a BCM ,in a side by side comp the Bcm is better.
Care to expand on that comment?
Ok, I took my Colt 6920,ColtMT6400c (had the barrel threaded for a FS A2 FS and FSB with a Bayo lug,and M4 stock installed ) and a BCM M4 16 inch upper on a Stag lower,and a LMT M4 16 inch upper on a RRA lower out and ran a bunch of assorted ammo through them . they all functioned perfectly ,upon close inspection the Colt's and the BCM had a better look and finish and when we dissasembled them to clean them again the Colt's and the BCM looked better internaly (less burs,machine marks and nicer feed ramps ). the LMT is a year old with maybe 1000 rounds through it and the BCM is 2 years old with maybe 3000 rounds through it,the 6920 was the newest at 4 months with 400 rounds and the MT 6400C is 5 or 6 years old with maybe 5 or 6 thousand rounds through it . IMHO if given the choice of LMT or BCM I would pick the BCM every time. Love the Colt's but they are no better than the BCM . Paul doe's every thing so right ,with such attention to detail that he just has NO compitition . LMT is good and if you never saw or handled a BCM you would never know just how good it is . Paul's attention to detail and refuseal to use any thing but the very best parts put's the BCM above all others . :D can't wait to get 2 middy's from him as soon as they are available .
rifleshooter
08-08-08, 17:05
Ok, I took my Colt 6920,ColtMT6400c (had the barrel threaded for a FS A2 FS and FSB with a Bayo lug,and M4 stock installed ) and a BCM M4 16 inch upper on a Stag lower,and a LMT M4 16 inch upper on a RRA lower out and ran a bunch of assorted ammo through them . they all functioned perfectly ,upon close inspection the Colt's and the BCM had a better look and finish and when we dissasembled them to clean them again the Colt's and the BCM looked better internaly (less burs,machine marks and nicer feed ramps ). the LMT is a year old with maybe 1000 rounds through it and the BCM is 2 years old with maybe 3000 rounds through it,the 6920 was the newest at 4 months with 400 rounds and the MT 6400C is 5 or 6 years old with maybe 5 or 6 thousand rounds through it . IMHO if given the choice of LMT or BCM I would pick the BCM every time. Love the Colt's but they are no better than the BCM . Paul doe's every thing so right ,with such attention to detail that he just has NO compitition . LMT is good and if you never saw or handled a BCM you would never know just how good it is . Paul's attention to detail and refuseal to use any thing but the very best parts put's the BCM above all others . :D can't wait to get 2 middy's from him as soon as they are available .
That is a good report on the quality of finish's. on the AR uppers you own now did the BCM shoot better groups then the LM&T? Did the LM&T have failures to feed or failures to extract? Did the LM&T show more breach wear the the BCM?
When someone says something looks better that s one item, so I guess the question remains just how much better does the BCM upper make a rifle shoot and preform then the LM&T upper?
I said they All functioned perfectly,and that to me means no FTF,FTE or any stopage of any kind. with Eotech and Iron sights the accuracy was about the same . if I were to test for accuracy I would use a scope and bags on a bench. I may try that with some Black hills blue box 75 grain and an IOR scope when it cools down in october. the fact that BCM takes the extra effort to use the correct pins to attach the FSB and parks under the FSB let's me know they are not willing to take any short cuts to pump product out the door as fast as possible. add to that BCM made no uppers for over a year because they were not satisfyed with the barrel steel avalible and refused to comprimise even the slightest untill they were satisfyed tells me they are commited to building the best . god knows how much money they could have made if they weren't so picky. ya gotta respect a company that is willing to set a high standard and stick to it . they are commited to excellance and deliver a product I can trust and be proud to own. my spelling sucks ,but you get the idea.:D
rifleshooter
08-08-08, 18:32
I said they All functioned perfectly,and that to me means no FTF,FTE or any stopage of any kind. with Eotech and Iron sights the accuracy was about the same . if I were to test for accuracy I would use a scope and bags on a bench. I may try that with some Black hills blue box 75 grain and an IOR scope when it cools down in october. the fact that BCM takes the extra effort to use the correct pins to attach the FSB and parks under the FSB let's me know they are not willing to take any short cuts to pump product out the door as fast as possible. add to that BCM made no uppers for over a year because they were not satisfyed with the barrel steel avalible and refused to comprimise even the slightest untill they were satisfyed tells me they are commited to building the best . god knows how much money they could have made if they weren't so picky. ya gotta respect a company that is willing to set a high standard and stick to it . they are commited to excellance and deliver a product I can trust and be proud to own. my spelling sucks ,but you get the idea.:D
Are you in some small way implying in your posting that LM&T are putting their uppers together with second or third quality steel bbls? And they LM&T are not commited to providing the highest of quality in their uppers?
The Bravo Company is a very high quality Company with high quality products but as of this posting I have not heard or read that they The Bravo Company was a supplier to any US Military Dept. or branch of military Service as the LM&T Company have been for many years.
Correct me if I am wrong on this item.
I a'm not saying LMT is useing sub par steel,I don't know what they are useing . I assume they use what they claim. I do find it dissapointing they (LMT) refuse to park under the FSB and use odball pins to fasten the FSB. many government contracts are subjest to the lowest bid and who you know or other factors. just look at the body armor vest fiasco . I read last year even Ruger had a small Gov contract for pistols. what I a'm saying is after owning both uppers I believe the BCM is better and I buy no means a'm I saying LMT is bad. the leval of commitment to excellance that BCM has is amazeing .
[QUOTE=The Bravo Company is a very high quality Company with high quality products but as of this posting I have not heard or read that they The Bravo Company was a supplier to any US Military Dept. or branch of military Service as the LM&T Company have been for many years.
Correct me if I am wrong on this item.[/QUOTE]
directly BCM isn't a supplier. indirectly they are. military personnel are allowed some weapon modifications based on rank, and clearance. I do know that alot of BCM's inventory ends up overseas, and he gives them priority. lol as was stated earlier, some gov't contracts end up going to lowest bidder, resulting in poor quality; being a supplier to Uncle Sugar definitely doesn't guarentee quality.
rifleshooter
08-08-08, 20:06
directly BCM isn't a supplier. indirectly they are. military personnel are allowed some weapon modifications based on rank, and clearance. I do know that alot of BCM's inventory ends up overseas, and he gives them priority. lol as was stated earlier, some gov't contracts end up going to lowest bidder, resulting in poor quality; being a supplier to Uncle Sugar definitely doesn't guarentee quality.
Well I am willing to bet that there is more LM&T hardware in our Military Service mens hands then BCM hardware.
And if you think LM&T gets contracts being the low bidder for their hardware you are way way far wrong pal.:)
And if you are thinking that LM&T has poor quality of hardware again you are way way wrong pal.:o
Are you in some small way implying in your posting that LM&T are putting their uppers together with second or third quality steel bbls? And they LM&T are not commited to providing the highest of quality in their uppers?
The Bravo Company is a very high quality Company with high quality products but as of this posting I have not heard or read that they The Bravo Company was a supplier to any US Military Dept. or branch of military Service as the LM&T Company have been for many years.
Correct me if I am wrong on this item.
So your saying quantity > quality?
Before you give more hypothetical reasoning behind LMT > BCM. Just answer this for me. Do you own or have extended experience with both of them? I tend to believe users here that have had both and say that the quality of the builds in the BCMs is better. Due to less time constraints and less volume on the part of BCM.
Are you in some small way implying in your posting that LM&T are putting their uppers together with second or third quality steel bbls? And they LM&T are not commited to providing the highest of quality in their uppers?
The Bravo Company is a very high quality Company with high quality products but as of this posting I have not heard or read that they The Bravo Company was a supplier to any US Military Dept. or branch of military Service as the LM&T Company have been for many years.
Correct me if I am wrong on this item.
I love LMT as much as the next guy but it's a logical fallacy to assume that one product is superior just because its fielded by the military while another is not.
Both companies put out nearly identical products. It really comes down to price and the company you want to deal with.
Either way you will not be at a disadvantage choosing one over the other.
Well I am willing to bet that there is more LM&T hardware in our Military Service mens hands then BCM hardware.
And if you think LM&T gets contracts being the low bidder for their hardware you are way way far wrong pal.:)
And if you are thinking that LM&T has poor quality of hardware again you are way way wrong pal.:o
no doubt there is more LMT gear; i believe they have some actual contracts.
you referenced LMT as low bidder; i merely said "some" contracts went to low bidders resulting in lower quality goods
i never claimed LMT was low quality, you brought that reference up
instead of attacking me, carefully read the post; i never mentioned LMT.
but i think this thread is heading toward a lock as people are loosing objectivity and beginning to approach a flame thread.:(
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought of the BCM upper (less BCG) as being better due to better quality control. That is besides being a little cheaper, park under FSB and the correct pins.
Am I missing anything else?
P.S. my post isn't an attack on BCM as I love them and their products and all my money goes to them first.
i think that LMT uses straight pins versus taper pins to secure their FSB. it's an extremely minor point.
you won't go wrong with either. That BCM handles the LMT gives you an indication of their quality.
Robb Jensen
08-10-08, 12:48
i think that LMT uses straight pins versus taper pins to secure their FSB. it's an extremely minor point.
you won't go wrong with either. That BCM handles the LMT gives you an indication of their quality.
LMT does use straight pins but I think they may have recently switched.
We have two new LMT uppers that have pins that are flat and flush with the surface of the FSB. The right side of the pins do appear larger than the left side. I haven't removed/knocked one out to see if it indeed is a taper pin just with flat ends.
rifleshooter
08-10-08, 14:03
Have any of the pins used by LM&T ever given a problem?
Robb Jensen
08-10-08, 14:04
Have and of the pins used by LM&T ever given a problem?
I've never seen a problem with an AR with straight pins.
Have any of the pins used by LM&T ever given a problem?
lol there are those that appreciate the straight pins, when attempting to change out the FSB.
and i definitely wouldn't let that hold you up. like gotm4 mentioned, LMT may have switched.
if you want a good in-depth review, take a look here http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462
. they give excellent breakdown on several of the main platforms, with pluses and minus on each. and i think Rob-s helped on this eval. they also give the LMT platform a solid "buy" recommendation.
LMT does use straight pins but I think they may have recently switched.
We have two new LMT uppers that have pins that are flat and flush with the surface of the FSB. The right side of the pins do appear larger than the left side. I haven't removed/knocked one out to see if it indeed is a taper pin just with flat ends.
I remember reading it two or three different places that the straight pins are much harder for gunsmiths to disassemble than the taper pins, I may be a little off the mark, but it makes me belive that the straight pins may offer a more secure attachment method. Not that the taper pins are in anyway a weak method. I would like to see someone with experience on both chime in, just out of curiosity.
vicious_cb
08-11-08, 04:23
I have heard LMT overbores their barrles to accommodate the thickness of the chroming. Does BCM do the same? How is the accuracy potential between the two? Also who makes BCM barrels?
Robb Jensen
08-11-08, 06:12
I remember reading it two or three different places that the straight pins are much harder for gunsmiths to disassemble than the taper pins, I may be a little off the mark, but it makes me belive that the straight pins may offer a more secure attachment method. Not that the taper pins are in anyway a weak method. I would like to see someone with experience on both chime in, just out of curiosity.
I've removed a lot of taper pins and straight pins. In my experience I find the LMT straight pins one of the the easiest to remove.
To me the Stag taper pins are the most difficult to remove, Stag also installs them from the left side of the gun....don't know why.
justdave01
01-24-10, 09:58
I'm not intending this to be some know-it-all been there and I know better statement so please just take it for what it's worth. I hang out with a few class 3 guys and have handled and ran rounds through just about everything out there so here's my 2 cents. And please don't ask to give some resume blurb, because I could care less about yours. Once again, no offense intended.
The LMT debate is kind of comical because LMT makes the uppers and lowers for most names out there including Colt. However; understanding that a mil-spec upper and lower with M-4 feed ramps is not the be all end all here goes.
I've seen every brand of military grade and upper end custom brand have issues when on sustained full auto fire (Beta Mag take it out 'em), except Noveske that is. If it's not a barrell deformation issue, it's the gas tube melting (pardon me for those piston guys out there, that's a whole other discussion). They are all great and the quality in that level of a product is as reliable a tool with that demand placed on it as it can be. It all boils down to what they are going to do when you need them to replace it, and if you are doing more than the occasional M-4 carbine class, chances are you'll need to call them at some point. Who's the company on the other end that treats you with great customer service and won't make you wait 3 months for a replacement.
I know in my experience LMT has been on the ball quickly and they are known throughout the upper end shops. If you're in a bind you may be able to get help and/or a replacement from a shop that knows LMT and let them deal with LMT while you go do your thing. BCM?, well I don't know of anyone other than Bravo Company that deals with them. Probably wrong there, I've been known to be.
Kind of like needing to pick a bank that's at least National level. When you're away from home, you can get problems dealt with quickly without a lot of special concerns.
Bottom line, if you're pushing your weapon continuously it won't matter who makes it, you'll need to call for help eventually. They need to not only be willing to, but be able to with the market demands that are on all weapons manufacturers these days.
Failure2Stop
01-24-10, 15:18
Dude, you just resurrected a year and a half old thread to essentially say that things break? Please read the stickies and familiarize yourself with the site.
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