View Full Version : Glock 19 Performance Report (w/ BarSto fitted Barrel)
I'm chronicling my return to shooting and the performance of my modified Gen3 Glock 19. Primarily I intend to keep this thread posted with the performance of various ammunition using the B8 target for the standard. Today was my first day at the range conducting actual drills since I separated from the armed forced in 2010. So I'm quite rusty and my shooting should improve.
The current events around the world have reminded me that keeping my marksmanship skills intact is in the best interest of myself, my family and American citizens (as I do CCW). I've also decided to participate in IDPA events with the intent to exercise and evaluate my shooting performance. I do not intend to focus on the competitive aspect and get into the "gaming" aspect of shooting sports. I intend to use it more as an exercise and proofing of my training.
My Glock 19 is currently outfitted with the following at the time of this posting. Should anything change in the setup, followup posts will address those changes.
Trigger pull measured @ 3.5lb mean avg.
Warren Tactical sights (front tritium, plain rear)
Fire4Effect slide machining w/ DLC coating
Bar Sto match fit barrel
ISMI stainless guide rod and 18lb recoil spring
Glockworx frame work (grip reduction, CCW stipple, internal magwell)
Glockworx striker + competition spring kit (3lb striker spring)
Glockworx Fulcrum trigger
Glock OEM (-) connector
Glock extended slide release
Vickers extended mag release
Unfortunately I do not have pictures of the B8 target for today's drills. However the following scores from shooting a string of 10 rounds at the B8 target @ 25yrds are as follows.
*Note* The Blazer Brass 115gr was my initial evaluation and was the first shots of the day.. String felt good, similar to others.
Blazer Brass 115gr: 37
Speer Gold Dot 115gr: 88
Hornady Critical Defense 115gr: 90
Blazer Brass 127gr: 57
After noting the poor performance of the Blazer Brass ammo and noting that the shots were all above the X, I set up some a course of fire to place 5 rounds on target at 3, 5, 10, 15, 20yrds to get a feel for what was happening with the BB ammo. These were all shot with BB 127gr.
My shots at 3yrds:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BB127gr3yrds_zpsnzt1kr4i.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BB127gr3yrds_zpsnzt1kr4i.jpg.html)
5yrds, aiming at the line:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BB127gr5yrds_zpsphpzm8wg.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BB127gr5yrds_zpsphpzm8wg.jpg.html)
10yrds:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BB127gr10yrds_zps9rl54zbk.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BB127gr10yrds_zps9rl54zbk.jpg.html)
15yrds, shots circled in red:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BB127gr15yrds_zpssjs4d9h7.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BB127gr15yrds_zpssjs4d9h7.jpg.html)
20yrds (depressing!)
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BB127gr20yrds_zpscdgxaovp.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BB127gr20yrds_zpscdgxaovp.jpg.html)
I'm seeing the trend that this ammo just shoots high. When shooting bulls with the B8 and the Gold Dot/Critical Defense ammo, I did notice a slight trend of shooting high, but as those scores indicate they are much more controlled and do not exhibit the deviation the Blazer Brass does.
Please feel free to comment/speculate/etc. Thanks for the space. Looking forward to sharing more data on how my barrel performs with various ammo.
That's why I don't waste money fixing up handguns.:o
That's why I don't waste money fixing up handguns.:o
The "carry" ammo was entirely different FWIW.
FlyingHunter
11-22-15, 20:31
Well done write up. Once you get dialed in...it would be interesting to see groups with OEM vs BarSto.
Well done write up. Once you get dialed in...it would be interesting to see groups with OEM vs BarSto.
Thank you sir!
That's something I'll be sure to do along the way although I don't think I'll have time to test every ammo with both, I will make a point to do some comparisons between things along the way. Thank you for the suggestion. Would you like to see a comparison of any particular ammo (fitted vs OEM)?
I'd also like to point out that the groups posted above are representative of the worst performing ammo of the day (the Blazer Brass). The Gold Dot and Critical Defense ammo I shot had groups SIGNIFICANTLY better than what you see above. I just want to make sure those just glossing over this thread don't assume the pics above are representative of the performance of the pistol. This thread was an after thought, so the pics were lacking in the earlier strings. I'll be a bit more thorough with the "visual data" from this point forward.
I had a G19 with the same sights that shot with similar results. Are you shooting offhand or resting on a range bag, sandbag, etc? When you aim, is the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight? Where did the groups with your defensive ammo hit? If they hit high, you may just need a taller front sight. But, I wouldn't change anything until you shoot it several hundred rounds.
I had a G19 with the same sights that shot with similar results. Are you shooting offhand or resting on a range bag, sandbag, etc? When you aim, is the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight? Where did the groups with your defensive ammo hit? If they hit high, you may just need a taller front sight. But, I wouldn't change anything until you shoot it several hundred rounds.
Interesting.. Your response got me curious and I did a little poking around and others seem to be experiencing similar issues. The B8 bullseye scores and the cheap freebie target pictures above were all shot standing offhand. I'll bag some future attempts to see just how much deviation I'm inducing. If the results from the Critical Duty and Gold Dot are indicative of my performance potential, there is some room for improvement. For frame of reference, when I was still in and my trigger-fu would get me a consistent 95-97 score on a B8 target @ 25yrds with my issued M9 and M882 9mm Ball ammo.
When firing I shot with a sight picture with the front sight level with the rear and equal space in the rear sight notch. Not to say that didn't deviate slightly as I'm not as steady as I once was. But that was the sight picture I setup for. I did notice that my front tritium dot does distract me away from the top edge of the sight. Enough so that I'm considering going to a plain front to eliminate the distraction.
The groups were significantly tighter with the defensive ammo (scores 88 & 90) but still had a general trend of being high. Not nearly the dispersion the Blazer Brass had however. I'll see if I can't get a pic up of my B8 Target and do some color coding on the holes.. They were trending high though.. Let me see what I can do. I'd still like to get some more rounds through it with various ammo before I make a correction. At this point I've only got about 225 rounds through the barrel.
I’m a firm believer in aftermarket barrels in Glock pistols, though my experience is limited to two Wilson 9mm barrels and one 40 S&W barrel in Glocks, plus several top-end barrels in precision long guns and handguns. After about 25k rounds through Glocks, here’s the top line of what I’ve noticed about them:
Aftermarket barrels are generally a good thing, but they have some peculiarities. OEM barrels shoot acceptably with most loads, and may shoot well with one or two loads. It’s very rare that they make exceptional groups consistently with anything. Match barrels shoot most loads well, more loads very well, and are much more likely to make exceptional groups with a wider variety of loads. They also need to be cleaned more often for best results, but they’re easier to clean than OEM barrels.
Ammo matters. You have to test loads to find what your gun shoots best. Good JHP loads outshoot nearly all FMJ loads. A lot of FMJ ammo is only useful because it cycles the gun. Save ammo like this for speed work inside of 10m. No matter what ammo you use, match barrels won’t show you any meaningful difference in accuracy until you get to 25 yards. Inside of that, it's all shooter error.
Different loads have different POIs. This shows up in elevation AND windage. OEM barrels also do this but aftermarket barrels tend to make smaller groups, so the POI differences are more obvious. An MGW sight press or an adjustable rear sight helps when dealing with this.
You need two loads. Use a JHP on DocGKR’s list that your gun shoots well for carry. Use an FMJ load that your guns shoots well and that hits close to the POI of the JHP load for practice. I’ve had good luck with S&B FMJ in all bullet weights and with American Eagle 147-grain FMJ loads. Buy 10-12 cases at a time if you can—it saves a lot of dicking around with sights and you don’t have to drive all over town looking for the right ammo because you’ll only run out about once a year.
Twist rate matters. OEM barrels have a 1:9.84 twist. Wilson and BarSto barrels have a 1:16 twist. The slow twist in the aftermarket barrels means that they tend to shoot 115-grain and 124-grain bullets better, but I suspect it can be a little too slow for some 147-grain loads. For instance, one of my Wilson-barreled guns will put five shots into 4” at 50 yards with a hot 124-grain handload or with S&B 115-grain FMJ pretty regularly. But with a very well-regarded 147-grain premium load, this gun shoots 5" groups at 25 yards on a good day. It will often keyhole one or two of those shots, and will barely stay on a 20”x24” target at 50 with that load. On the other hand, my Gen4 G17 with the OEM barrel will shoot that load nearly as well as the Wilson gun shoots the handload. I’m pretty sure it’s not the ammo.
Finally, there is a lot of solid information about Glock accuracy and aftermarket barrels on this forum and others, but the Search functions here and on those other forums don't work as well as a plain old Google search. I’ve contributed to dozens of threads about Glock accuracy, sights, shooting Glocks out to 100 yards, and aftermarket barrels over the last 3-4 years. A number of them may be helpful.
Like I said above, aftermarket barrels are generally a good thing, but they take you down a completely different rabbit hole. I’ve been down that one for several years now, so let me know if you have more specific questions.
ETA:
For frame of reference, when I was still in and my trigger-fu would get me a consistent 95-97 score on a B8 target @ 25yrds with my issued M9 and M882 9mm Ball ammo.
In my experience, the M9 with M882 is an exceptionally accurate combination. Probably not the best baseline for Glock comparisons.
Okie John
Red: CCI Blazer Brass 115gr
Orange: Speer Gold Dot 115gr
Yellow: Hornady Critical Defense 115gr
Green: CCI Blazer Brass 124gr
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/B8_11-22-15_zpsqzlhncwi.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/B8_11-22-15_zpsqzlhncwi.jpg.html)
**NOTE** The two Critical Defense hits that are low were called, and known shooter error.
Match barrels shoot most loads well, more loads very well, and are much more likely to make exceptional groups with a wider variety of loads. They also need to be cleaned more often for best results, but they’re easier to clean than OEM barrels.
Okie John
Maybe I'm a bit off base here but I don't understand what makes it easier to clean the aftermarket barrels as compared to the OEM barrels.
Howdy,
What is your POA?
6 o'clock, middle of bull's eye, or 12 o'clock?
Paul
Maybe I'm a bit off base here but I don't understand what makes it easier to clean the aftermarket barrels as compared to the OEM barrels.
Everyone who makes barrels laps the bore's internal surfaces after they rifle them. Custom barrel makers lap these surfaces to a smoother finish that picks up less fouling. Less fouling deforms the bullets less, so the barrel is more accurate IF you keep it clean. You also have to clean it carefully, because any roughening of that surface will degrade accuracy, and it doesn't take much of the wrong kind of cleaning to ruin one. Because the bore surfaces are smoother, any fouling that does accumulate is easier to remove. It's like the difference between cleaning a handful of mud off of a plate glass window versus cleaning it off of a cinder-block wall.
Lapping a barrel properly takes time and skill--the barrel-maker can't have some entry-level knucklehead lap barrels--which is why custom barrels cost more than factory barrels.
If you ever look down a clean match-grade barrel, the light reflected from the inside is so bright that you almost can't see the rifling. Same if you lap an OEM barrel--but that's a different thread...
Okie John
So what you're saying is that it isn't that the barrel is harder to clean just that it needs to be given better treatment during the cleaning?
Howdy,
What is your POA?
6 o'clock, middle of bull's eye, or 12 o'clock?
Paul
POA was center on the "X". I'm wondering how things might look if I 6 o'clock hold at +10yrds.
I'll get to the other responses soon.. Busy day!
So what you're saying is that it isn't that the barrel is harder to clean just that it needs to be given better treatment during the cleaning?
All other factors being the same (solvent, brushes, patches) it takes more time and effort to clean an OEM barrel than it does to clean a custom barrel.
Okie John
Thank you okie john for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences on this subject.
I'll be honest, and admit I expected a bit more accuracy from my stock barreled Glock 19 (even with the trigger work) as I based the performance off of my experience with the M9/M882. I've actually shot very little with any other platform - just a magazine or two from this and that. This Glock 19 is my first pistol believe it or not. I had hoped for similar performance to what I remember being able to achieve with the issued M9/M882, expecting it to be middle of the road in terms of accuracy like my M4/M855 combo. This lead me to the aftermarket barrel..
...They also need to be cleaned more often for best results, but they’re easier to clean than OEM barrels.
Can you elaborate on the frequency of cleaning in terms of round count? I generally don't put more than 2-300 rounds down-range at any given time..
Ammo matters. You have to test loads to find what your gun shoots best. Good JHP loads outshoot nearly all FMJ loads. A lot of FMJ ammo is only useful because it cycles the gun. Save ammo like this for speed work inside of 10m. No matter what ammo you use, match barrels won’t show you any meaningful difference in accuracy until you get to 25 yards. Inside of that, it's all shooter error.
Different loads have different POIs. This shows up in elevation AND windage. OEM barrels also do this but aftermarket barrels tend to make smaller groups, so the POI differences are more obvious. An MGW sight press or an adjustable rear sight helps when dealing with this. <-- Got one :)
You need two loads. Use a JHP on DocGKR’s list that your gun shoots well for carry. Use an FMJ load that your guns shoots well and that hits close to the POI of the JHP load for practice. I’ve had good luck with S&B FMJ in all bullet weights and with American Eagle 147-grain FMJ loads. Buy 10-12 cases at a time if you can—it saves a lot of dicking around with sights and you don’t have to drive all over town looking for the right ammo because you’ll only run out about once a year.
Solid advice sir. That's precisely what I think I'll do when I get the press setup and start processing some brass.
Twist rate matters. OEM barrels have a 1:9.84 twist. Wilson and BarSto barrels have a 1:16 twist. The slow twist in the aftermarket barrels means that they tend to shoot 115-grain and 124-grain bullets better, but I suspect it can be a little too slow for some 147-grain loads. For instance, one of my Wilson-barreled guns will put five shots into 4” at 50 yards with a hot 124-grain handload or with S&B 115-grain FMJ pretty regularly. But with a very well-regarded 147-grain premium load, this gun shoots 5" groups at 25 yards on a good day. It will often keyhole one or two of those shots, and will barely stay on a 20”x24” target at 50 with that load. On the other hand, my Gen4 G17 with the OEM barrel will shoot that load nearly as well as the Wilson gun shoots the handload. I’m pretty sure it’s not the ammo.
Finally, there is a lot of solid information about Glock accuracy and aftermarket barrels on this forum and others, but the Search functions here and on those other forums don't work as well as a plain old Google search. I’ve contributed to dozens of threads about Glock accuracy, sights, shooting Glocks out to 100 yards, and aftermarket barrels over the last 3-4 years. A number of them may be helpful.
In your experience, what would you expect a similarly equipped G19 to mine to group with the ammo dialed in? I honestly haven't the slightest idea of what I should expect.
I'll have to spend some time with the search feature and read on some of your prior postings. Thank you for the tips. I didn't realize these things were discussed in detail. Signal to noise ratio is quite low on some of the Glock related threads.
Everyone who makes barrels laps the bore's internal surfaces after they rifle them. Custom barrel makers lap these surfaces to a smoother finish that picks up less fouling. Less fouling deforms the bullets less, so the barrel is more accurate IF you keep it clean. You also have to clean it carefully, because any roughening of that surface will degrade accuracy, and it doesn't take much of the wrong kind of cleaning to ruin one. Because the bore surfaces are smoother, any fouling that does accumulate is easier to remove. It's like the difference between cleaning a handful of mud off of a plate glass window versus cleaning it off of a cinder-block wall.
Lapping a barrel properly takes time and skill--the barrel-maker can't have some entry-level knucklehead lap barrels--which is why custom barrels cost more than factory barrels.
If you ever look down a clean match-grade barrel, the light reflected from the inside is so bright that you almost can't see the rifling. Same if you lap an OEM barrel--but that's a different thread...
Okie John
Interesting yet again.. I took some crude pics (forgive the iPhone shots) of the bores, but I do notice the bore on my stock Glock barrel is quite a bit more polished than my BarSto. The Glock is virtually mirror smooth when looking against the light, where the BarSto has what appears to be machining marks parallel to the rifling. VERY slight, not "scratches" but a noticeably less polished finish. See below:
OEM Glock 19 Barrel - The "crud" in the pic is some dirt on my phone case, nothing in/on the bore!
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/GlockBore_zpsvwiztbxe.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/GlockBore_zpsvwiztbxe.jpg.html)
BarSto Glock 19 Barrel
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q205/JustDSM/Targets/BarStoBore_zpsmxig3mvq.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/JustDSM/media/Targets/BarStoBore_zpsmxig3mvq.jpg.html)
TacMedic556
11-23-15, 20:57
That's why I don't waste money fixing up handguns.:o
Same here. "Gun shoot - gun good". Aside from night sights, every pistol I have runs stock.
I'll be honest, and admit I expected a bit more accuracy from my stock barreled Glock 19 (even with the trigger work) as I based the performance off of my experience with the M9/M882. I've actually shot very little with any other platform - just a magazine or two from this and that. This Glock 19 is my first pistol believe it or not. I had hoped for similar performance to what I remember being able to achieve with the issued M9/M882, expecting it to be middle of the road in terms of accuracy like my M4/M855 combo. This lead me to the aftermarket barrel..
A Glock 19 can be remarkably accurate with the right ammo, but it will be much harder to shoot well than an M9. Part of that is because the Beretta is 10 ounces heavier, which helps steady it. Part of that is the trigger. An M9 trigger that's seen some use can be nearly as good as a good 1911 trigger, while the Glock trigger is always a study in disappointment.
Can you elaborate on the frequency of cleaning in terms of round count?
Accuracy in my barrels start to fall off at about 400-500 rounds. Cleaning it brings it right back. Your barrel may be different.
In your experience, what would you expect a similarly equipped G19 to mine to group with the ammo dialed in? I honestly haven't the slightest idea of what I should expect.
That depends on the shooter. On a good day, I would not be surprised to see 4" groups at 50 yards if you do your part and if you use a good handload or match-grade factory load. An average of 6-8" at 50 yards is probably more like it. As for loads, in a 1:16 twist barrel, I'd start with a good 124-grain JHP like the Hornady Action Pistol or XTP. Push it as fast as it will go safely, which should be just shy of 1,200 fps.
Interesting yet again.. I took some crude pics (forgive the iPhone shots) of the bores, but I do notice the bore on my stock Glock barrel is quite a bit more polished than my BarSto. The Glock is virtually mirror smooth when looking against the light, where the BarSto has what appears to be machining marks parallel to the rifling. VERY slight, not "scratches" but a noticeably less polished finish. See below:
OEM Glock 19 Barrel - The "crud" in the pic is some dirt on my phone case, nothing in/on the bore!
BarSto Glock 19 Barrel
You'll see this more after you get a few thousand rounds through each barrel, even if you clean every few hundred rounds. Once you get to that point, scrub both of them clean. Both barrels will probably have some scaly-looking stuff in the first couple of inches forward of the chamber, but the OEM will have a lot more of it. You'll also have to work four or five times harder to get it all out of the OEM barrel, while the BarSto will let go of that stuff much more easily.
Okie John
That's about the same size groups I shoot offhand(assuming that's 4-5 inches) with my blacklist industries barrel. Benched it groups less than half that.
Hemoglobin
11-23-15, 23:27
It's odd to me from my exp. you say that the faster twist rate works better for the lighter bullets. I've always thought that faster twist rates in barrels accommodated heavier bullets. I just took a new KKM barrel which is ,from my checking, a 1:20 barrel. It shot everything high as can be except 147gr. 115gr+p double tap ammo was probably an inch high at 10-15 yards compared to the 147 that was spot on. no key holing or anything though.
This was using standard height 10-8 FO front serrated plain rear sights.
I prefer 147gr 9mm anyway so doesn't hurt my feelings, but that KKM barrel shot about 200 rounds of old 115gr +p defensive ammo I was never going to carry and about 150 rounds of white box without a hiccup. It shot some federal HST 147+p spot on. Pretty happy with my current setup.
I Need to add with the hsp thirteen sights I'm 2-3 inches high at 17 yards using stand 1 armory 115gr while using sight picture 3 from the link below.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh4.ggpht.com/_HyKXZv5NViY/TQ7YAMV975I/AAAAAAAA65Y/0aZ3fvhz-Hc/r03xfs.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://glocktalk.com/threads/which-is-the-correct-sight-picture-for-glock-see-illustration.1304733/&h=221&w=453&tbnid=TdKy9oTiXZAnVM:&docid=hBlpB4V4SI8h6M&hl=en-us&ei=bAFUVuqAGo7UoATf2p-oBA&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0ahUKEwjq5uKVtajJAhUOKogKHV_tB0UQMwgoKAkwCQ
Straight Shooter
11-24-15, 04:35
I looked back at my initial range review of my G19 Gen 4 I bought back in Sept. Range report was on 24SEPT15.
Have since shot several hundred more rounds..my current thoughts on mine.
ACCURATE. Far more than OP's pics. Likes 124grainers and my carry load of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, and 124gr Gold Dot ammo.
Also shot Hornady American Gunner +P 124s well. Groups were 2" high & slightly left, dead on for some. Pro I-DOT Ameriglo's. Groups were ragged holes at 10 yards and further. Way under palm size out to 20.
Gun has been 100% thus far. Hope this helps.
I looked back at my initial range review of my G19 Gen 4 I bought back in Sept. Range report was on 24SEPT15.
Have since shot several hundred more rounds..my current thoughts on mine.
ACCURATE. Far more than OP's pics. Likes 124grainers and my carry load of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, and 124gr Gold Dot ammo.
Also shot Hornady American Gunner +P 124s well. Groups were 2" high & slightly left, dead on for some. Pro I-DOT Ameriglo's. Groups were ragged holes at 10 yards and further. Way under palm size out to 20.
Gun has been 100% thus far. Hope this helps.
I have only messed with a couple of Gen4 Glocks, but I got the same impression.
Okie John
I looked back at my initial range review of my G19 Gen 4 I bought back in Sept. Range report was on 24SEPT15.
Have since shot several hundred more rounds..my current thoughts on mine.
ACCURATE. Far more than OP's pics. Likes 124grainers and my carry load of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+, and 124gr Gold Dot ammo.
Also shot Hornady American Gunner +P 124s well. Groups were 2" high & slightly left, dead on for some. Pro I-DOT Ameriglo's. Groups were ragged holes at 10 yards and further. Way under palm size out to 20.
Gun has been 100% thus far. Hope this helps.
I have only messed with a couple of Gen4 Glocks, but I got the same impression.
Okie John
I gather that I'm just not shooting the pistol anywhere near it's capability.
I'll have to try some of the hotter ammo and see what happens. Initial results clearly indicate a preference for hotter stuff.
I gather that I'm just not shooting the pistol anywhere near it's capability.
I'll have to try some of the hotter ammo and see what happens. Initial results clearly indicate a preference for hotter stuff.
I will preface this by saying my preference and experience is with the Gen4 G17 and my own reloads, not factory ammo.
However, producing 2.0" 10-round groups at 25 yards out of my Bar-Sto'ed G17G4 is common from a rest. Standing offhand, my abilities are limited to putting 60 rounds into a 4" diameter circle at 25 yards (B8's are too large, IMO for the best results). Generally I'm shooting 124 gr PD JHPs at about 1,080 - 1,100 fps.
Straight Shooter
11-24-15, 13:39
Bro...60 rounds into a 4" circle @ 25yards, that AINT bad shootin!
Lighten up on yourself. The fun thing about improving is- YOU GET TO GO SHOOTIN TO PRACTICE! :D
Bro...60 rounds into a 4" circle @ 25yards, that AINT bad shootin!
Lighten up on yourself. The fun thing about improving is- YOU GET TO GO SHOOTIN TO PRACTICE! :D
60 rounds in a 4" group at 25 yards would give me a chubby. I can MAYBE do that with 5 rounds offhand, MAYBE.
It's odd to me from my exp. you say that the faster twist rate works better for the lighter bullets. I've always thought that faster twist rates in barrels accommodated heavier bullets. I just took a new KKM barrel which is ,from my checking, a 1:20 barrel. It shot everything high as can be except 147gr. 115gr+p double tap ammo was probably an inch high at 10-15 yards compared to the 147 that was spot on. no key holing or anything though.
This was using standard height 10-8 FO front serrated plain rear sights.
I prefer 147gr 9mm anyway so doesn't hurt my feelings, but that KKM barrel shot about 200 rounds of old 115gr +p defensive ammo I was never going to carry and about 150 rounds of white box without a hiccup. It shot some federal HST 147+p spot on. Pretty happy with my current setup.
The OEM barrel twist is one turn in 9.84 inches, or about twice as fast as the Wilson barrel, which is one turn in 16 inches. The lower the number, the faster the twist, and the better it will tend to shoot with heavy-for-caliber bullets.
Okie John
In the hobby phase of handgun shooting, I spend a lot of time slugging barrels and pairing up the most desirable cast bullet diameter with a certain barrel. I can write at length on the subject. However, the defensive use of handguns phase has taught me not to fix things that ain't broke. From that it follows that I'm better off using OEM except for sights. It's all opinion, of course, but my bias claims that the OEM equipped handgun is less likely to malfunction.
I have two G-19s and would love to have a Bar-Sto barrel in the spare.
The op has demonstrated outstanding marksmanship skill, and his narrative shows that he knows what he's talking about. My OEM comment does not apply to him.
It's obvious that he's willing to spend the time and money(ammo)to vet his choices.
Straight Shooter
12-02-15, 23:17
Slight, positive improvements can be made to help with ergonomics and controls. I HIGHLY recommend the Vickers Slide Stop, got em on all 3 of my Glocks. Grip plugs, Ameriglo Pro I-DOT sights, a good 25 cent trigger job with a quality 3.5lb. connector and you should be good to go.
wilson1911
12-03-15, 02:03
Straight shooter, for the trigger job would that entail just polishing and rounding of the edges of the trigger assembly ? And adding a ghost connector 3.5 ? No springs or anything ? I just bought my first glock the other day.
In the hobby phase of handgun shooting, I spend a lot of time slugging barrels and pairing up the most desirable cast bullet diameter with a certain barrel. I can write at length on the subject. However, the defensive use of handguns phase has taught me not to fix things that ain't broke. From that it follows that I'm better off using OEM except for sights. It's all opinion, of course, but my bias claims that the OEM equipped handgun is less likely to malfunction.
I have two G-19s and would love to have a Bar-Sto barrel in the spare.
I won't disagree that an OEM barrel is more reliable if only because the chamber size is so generous that they will eat out of spec ammo.
However, I've probably put north of 40K through aftermarket Glock barrels of a few types and have never experienced a failure when shooting ammo within dimensional specifications. I wouldn't hesitate to carry one because my samples of several are proven reliable.
Straight Shooter
12-03-15, 07:37
Straight shooter, for the trigger job would that entail just polishing and rounding of the edges of the trigger assembly ? And adding a ghost connector 3.5 ? No springs or anything ? I just bought my first glock the other day.
Wilson1911-
Go to Youtube and type in "25cent Trigger Job"...MANY vids will pop up. Yes, I use Flitz polish and in the past, a Q-Tip. But I use a Dremel with a buffing wheel lately. The connectors pop right out/in. I do not use light springs on any gun...I say DO NOT install any light springs or competition ANYTHING on a defense gun. No titanium B.S..no gadgets.
Just polish until shiny the areas outlined in the vids. A little lube also.
andersenvincent7
12-03-15, 19:26
I am curious to see how that compares to a Gen 4 OEM barrel given that the Gen 4 guns tend to be more accurate.
I am curious to see how that compares to a Gen 4 OEM barrel given that the Gen 4 guns tend to be more accurate.
My best groups with the Bar Sto are about ~40% less in diameter than with the OEM Gen4 barrel (1.25" for 10-rounds at 25 yards vs. 2")
My average groups are 20% less with the Bar Sto vs. the Gen 4 OEM. (slightly sub 2" vs. ~2.5" for 10-rounds at 25 yards)
I attribute some of the loss on average vs. the cherry picked best groups with the limits of my shooting ability and reloads and sights not optimized for target shooting. A red dot, etc. would be more repeatable, and likely produce better average groups, but I don't have one. As would (possibly) a Ransom rest, which I also don't have.
I had similar results with a fitted Jarvis barrel fwiw. The Bar Sto locks up tighter though. The chamber seems even tighter than the Jarvis as well.
Looking at 6 new current production Gen 4 G19's this last weekend at the gun shop, I noticed the barrel to slight fit on all of them were tight with literally no movement at the barrel hood or when pushing down on the barrel hood
and the slide to frame fit on them were also tighter than in the past. IMHO, I believe that any accuracy edge that pistols like the VP9, PPQ and Sig 320 may have over a Gen 4 9mm Glock is probably due to their better supported and probably tighter chamber dimensions/profile (stepped in the VP9 AND PPQ) and their somewhat lighter preloaded triggers. Also IMO, the stock Glock factory sights do not do anything for its practical accuracy either.
Looking at 6 new current production Gen 4 G19's this last weekend at the gun shop, I noticed the barrel to slight fit on all of them were tight with literally no movement at the barrel hood or when pushing down on the barrel hood
and the slide to frame fit on them were also tighter than in the past. IMHO, I believe that any accuracy edge that pistols like the VP9, PPQ and Sig 320 may have over a Gen 4 9mm Glock is probably due to their better supported and probably tighter chamber dimensions/profile (stepped in the VP9 AND PPQ) and their somewhat lighter preloaded triggers. Also IMO, the stock Glock factory sights do not do anything for its practical accuracy either.
My Gen4's factory barrels all measure .003" gap at the barrel hood. My most loosely fit aftermarket barrel is <.0015" after 30K rounds and too tight to accurately measure with my feeler gauges.
If you're pushing down on the barrel hood without field stripping the gun (i.e. pressing down vertically), that's a less important component to consistent lockup than "horizontal" fit. Pushing/pulling back to front when field stripped is what I'd look at first and bring feeler gauges if I was picking one for accuracy at the LGS, looking for something under .003".
Every component matters for accuracy (chamber dimensions, consistent lockup, etc.) and they're not additive, but I'd chase slide to frame fit last as the least likely to have measurable impact in these guns. I don't see any difference in chamber support in Gen4 guns vs. others.
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