View Full Version : Which spring for 230g ball
I have almost always shot semi wad cutters and a light spring.
For a 1st Gen Kimber Gold Match (FL guide rod ) what would you recommend for 230g ball ammo? I can't tell what my old springs are and would just as soon buy something new.
Standard for a 5" gun is 16 pounds. Try that first and go from there. I like Wolff springs.
wilson1911
11-22-15, 23:53
Midway sells the wolf spring pack, which is a good way to go. Very good springs.
You could also try a Wilson flat wire
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wire-Recoil-Spring-Kit-5-Full-Size-45-ACP-Chrome-Silicon-17-Lb/productinfo/614
Standard on a 5" is 18 LB not 16.
Thanks, the ones I have now are Wolf I believe. But I got them mixed up and can't tell what's what. Plus they are probably 12 down to 10. What exactly would be the symptoms for using a too light spring. I understand if it's too heavy it might not cycle but what happens if it's too light?
BTW.. if I were to get that Wilson setup... it comes with a short guide rod... would that be an issue since mine pistol was built with full length rod? I know most prefer the short rod anyway.
If its too light then you will have two issues-
1. Your felt recoil recoil will be terrible
2. You will beat your frame to death and prematurely wear out your gun, possibly cracking your frame in the process
Street Dog
11-23-15, 09:38
Standard on a 5" is 18 LB not 16.
Actually, the factory standard for a 5" 1911 is a 16 pound recoil spring. If you are a high volume shooter, and shoot factory standard 230 ball, an 18.5 pound spring is not a bad option. If you are shooting several different loads, the 16 will work better across the board, and perhaps install a shok-buff when shooting heavier loads.
That's sort of why I was leaning to that Wilson at 17#... I figured it split the difference.
Standard on a 5" is 18 LB not 16.
That is incorrect. Factory spec for a 5" is 16. If you want to run a stiffer spring because of your chosen load, that's fine.
Thanks, the ones I have now are Wolf I believe. But I got them mixed up and can't tell what's what. Plus they are probably 12 down to 10. What exactly would be the symptoms for using a too light spring. I understand if it's too heavy it might not cycle but what happens if it's too light?
BTW.. if I were to get that Wilson setup... it comes with a short guide rod... would that be an issue since mine pistol was built with full length rod? I know most prefer the short rod anyway.
You can get a Wilson flat wire or a Wolff without the guide rod.
16 lbs. is standard on 5" guns.
I run 18.5 lbs recoil springs with 23 lbs mainsprings. All I shoot is 230's including SD loads so it works very well for my applications. The downside is a little slower followup shots. Recoil is a two way street, so the extra force will play into that a little.
17 lbs works really well also and gives you a little wider spectrum of ammo, think 185's and up as a broad generality.
The Wilson flatwire is GTG, but you will need a new guide rod and spring plug if yours is currently a FLGR. You could probably get away with the factory plug (i"ve done it once) but I would still recomend swapping it, if for nothing else, it eliminates the gaping hole left from the full length setup.
If you decide to get a couple of different weights to try out one thing I have found to help identify them is I will spray paint the ends of the spring, different color, different weight.
If you want to keep the FLGR, which is fine, get some wolff's and you should be solid.
Ok, thanks, I see it now. I was hoping to get it from Brownells with some other things but apparently they only sell the kit version. I see the individual spring on the Wilson site.
The Wilson flatwire is GTG, but you will need a new guide rod and spring plug if yours is currently a FLGR.
Ok, so now are you saying I should not try to run the Wilson flat on a FLGR? I am almost positive I have an enclosed guide rod plug in my spare parts.
So I could...
A. By the $20 short rod, flat spring 17# and use my spare plug and be done with it...
Or
B. for $25 buy the 16.5, 17.5, 18.5 and see which works best... http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-springs/government-model-variable-power-recoil-spring-prod24868.aspx
To be honest the Wilson setup sounds easier and I could keep the removed parts together to swap back in easily for the low power stuff. The only thing I don't know, is... is that pistol made to have a FLGR... I'm guessing that Full or Short has no danger either way... IOW, nothing could go wrong either way? Provided I use the correct weights and parts for either setup.
I don't think I have ever changed my mainspring... I do think I have changed the firing pin spring to extra strength that came in one of those Wolfe kits and I think I have a Ti firing pin. It's been ages since I swapped any of this stuff.
It just sounds like the Wilson might be the easiest swap it and forget setup for me. Unless I'm missing something, the gun would not know if it has FLGR or short except for hole in plug.
My apologies tb, I should have clarified. Option A.
To run the Wilson flat wire you will need the Wilson guide rod, the spring inner diameter will not work with any other setup so you would need the "kit". http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wire-Recoil-Spring-Kit-5-Full-Size-45-ACP-Chrome-Silicon-17-Lb/productinfo/614/ Your spare plug should work just fine.
As to the gun knowing the difference between set ups, GI vs FLGR, no it probably won't so to speak. Either set up works fine, so swapping it would be personal preference. I have both set ups and the only real difference I have ever noticed was during take down, which still is not a big deal in my world.
You are probably correct in thinking that the Wilson set up would fit your needs. It is pretty much a fire and forget setup with an expected 40,000 round service life. Plus it's Wilson Combat, meaning they would absolutely take care of you if for some reason you needed to contact them.
The Flat wire tech is probably the wave of the future as far as springs go, just look at Glock and M&P. From what I know of WC, I don't think they would be quick to throw things out there with out a proper vetting.
Hope this helps.
Ok, I see... I never thought about the internal diameter of the spring... that makes sense though when they flatten the spring something has to give somewhere.
I think I'm going that route and call it a day... and a lot less likely I will ever get the springs mixed up again.
Thanks all for the insight.
NickySantoro
11-23-15, 14:14
FWIW, I've been using a Wolff 17.5 variable with no issues. AFAIK, 16# is GI spec, but there long term durability is not a concern. Immediate reliability is.
Ok, I see... I never thought about the internal diameter of the spring... that makes sense though when they flatten the spring something has to give somewhere.
I think I'm going that route and call it a day... and a lot less likely I will ever get the springs mixed up again.
Thanks all for the insight.
Good choice. Don't forget the plug
Just put a 16lb spring in it and quit over thinking it.
Heavier springs are completely unnecessary and do nothing for the gun but increase the felt recoil, slam the barrel back into battery harder, and make racking the slide a PITA. The Wilson flat-wire has been done for years. It's a Glock 17 spring and doesn't do anything any other spring will do but now any other spring won't work on the special guide rod.
When I used to shoot 1911s a standard Wolff 16lb recoil would go for 5K+ of hardball and still be functioning fine.
Just put a 16lb spring in it and quit over thinking it.
That actually would be the least expensive and most simple thing I could do.
I just found this in my parts supply...
Brownells 969-950-600 Wolff Type B Recoil Spring
It doesn't give the weight but this must be 16lb right? It's still in sealed package so I think I'm just going with it and put some paint on it as someone suggested to mark it.
http://item.brownells.com/brands/wolff/type-b-factory-replacement-spring-for-hardball-loads-16-lb-govt-model-recoil-spring.htm
Wolff 17.5# variable is my go to Government spring.
I found another new wolff spring I had hidden from myself. This one says 16lb and it has the firing pin spring with it.. The first one I noted was a little longer than m 12lb springs and this one is yet longer again by about a coil. It also looks a little bit more black. the first one sort of reflects light just a bit.
I'm pretty sure none of my ammo I have now is any sort of extra power. In fact, I think it's Georgia Arms reloads. I might have some hollow points but again I doubt it's hot by any means. I know I don;t have any sort of special high power loads. If I do get any maybe I'll pick up a spare 17.5lb
1859sharps
11-26-15, 12:40
Kuhnhausen's 1911 shop manual says that 16# springs should be just fine with 230gr FMJ type ammo that is running 800ish. says this goes back to the start of 1911s. He goes on to say that a 17.5 to 18# spring improves cycling and lessens battering with current factory loads...your mileage may very on this claim.
A quick look of velocity data of 230gr FMJ offerings as listed by Midway...
magtech = 837 fps
Winchester white box = 835 fps
federal = 890fps
Sellier and Bellot = 853 fps
winchester service spec brown box = 865fps.
Kuhnhausen suggests that a 20# to 22# spring maybe needed for current factory loads. But does NOT give any guide to what that actually looks like/means.
Wilson Combat uses a power factor calculation to recommend springs. velocity x bullet weight. because of this recommends heavier springs for basic 230 FMJ ammunition.
according to WC
For FMJ at 835 FPS you would need a 18# to 18.5# spring. (WC says their 18# chrome silicon spring which is rated at 20,000 rounds is what goes into all their full size 1911s)
Georgia Arms lists their 230gr load at 810 fps. a 16# spring would be the right choice here.
Where my knowledge is dropping off at this time is what is the threshold for needing to move to to a heavier spring.
Yeah, I read his site and noticed he has 18lb as standard.. but then says this...
HOW TO TEST TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CORRECT RECOIL SPRING WEIGHT FOR YOUR AMMUNITION: Go to the range with your pistol and a magazine that will positively lock your slide to the rear when you slowly retract the slide with the pistol empty. Load one round of the desired ammunition in the proven magazine, load the pistol and fire the single shot holding the pistol in your strong hand, but grip the pistol fairly loose. If the pistol consistently (5 to 10 shots is adequate) locks the slide to the rear, the recoil spring is not too heavy for your ammunition. A recoil spring that is 1-2# below the weight where you begin to have failures to lock open is ideal for your ammunition.
So that would mean his pistols are taking 19-20 to function properly and then he backs down a pound or two to 18lb.
A number of years ago when I bought my Vickers tactical 1911, I asked LAV what spring weight he recommended. He said 18lb recoil with a 19lb main spring
That's good to know. I have no idea what my mainspring is. Next time I order some parts from Brownell's I may pick up that combo and see what happens.
The mainspring has more to do with slide velocity than the recoil spring.
I've ran +p with a standard 16lb and a 23lb main. If I was going to do it a lot, I'd use a small radius firing pin stop and maybe a 25lb main. The trouble with excess slide velocity is that it causes a malfunction of the magazine, not battering of the gun. A 1911 with no FCS and a modern forged frame is so over-built battering is not an issue.
A 16lb spring will be good to go with any SAAMI standard 230gr load.
andersenvincent7
12-03-15, 19:49
18 is the standard weight, thats where I would start.
18 is the standard weight, thats where I would start.
18 is not the standard and never has been. The real standard is a 32 coil spring as spec'd by Colt which ended up being closer to a 14#.
1859sharps
12-06-15, 19:51
The mainspring has more to do with slide velocity than the recoil spring.
I've ran +p with a standard 16lb and a 23lb main. If I was going to do it a lot, I'd use a small radius firing pin stop and maybe a 25lb main. The trouble with excess slide velocity is that it causes a malfunction of the magazine, not battering of the gun. A 1911 with no FCS and a modern forged frame is so over-built battering is not an issue.
A 16lb spring will be good to go with any SAAMI standard 230gr load.
I think you are confused. The mainspring has nothing to do with movement of the slid. mainspring is related to the hammer and has nothing to do with "slide velocity".... unless you are thinking since the hammer hits the firing pin, which hits the primer which causes the primer to detonate, which causes the power to burn, which causes the bullet to move, which causes the slide to move...
theJanitor
12-06-15, 20:08
1859, the mainspring and the flat bottomed FPS absolutely have an effect on slide velocity. The hammer is a lever than the slide needs to move out of the way, in order to retract. The flat bottomed FPS engages the lever at a point closer to the pivot, so more force is required to move that lever.
If you can maintain a slightly lower slide speed, it will give the magazine more time to position the next round for the slide to strip it from the mag.
I think you are confused. The mainspring has nothing to do with movement of the slid. mainspring is related to the hammer and has nothing to do with "slide velocity".... unless you are thinking since the hammer hits the firing pin, which hits the primer which causes the primer to detonate, which causes the power to burn, which causes the bullet to move, which causes the slide to move...
Oh okay I guess I'll go read up on how hammer fired handguns work. Thanks for the tip.
I think you are confused. The mainspring has nothing to do with movement of the slid. mainspring is related to the hammer and has nothing to do with "slide velocity".... unless you are thinking since the hammer hits the firing pin, which hits the primer which causes the primer to detonate, which causes the power to burn, which causes the bullet to move, which causes the slide to move...
Browning designed the 1911 with a slight radius on the bottom of the FPS to slow down the slide, but some GI's had issues with pulling the slide back so they redesigned the bottom of the FPS the way we know it today and increased spring poundage to have the same effect but to make it easier to pull back.
Change your 23lb main spring with a 19lb and see what a difference it makes. You may want to play with a EGW oversized FPS and put a slight radius like the original.
1859sharps
12-09-15, 16:56
The hammer is a lever than the slide needs to move out of the way, in order to retract.
I completely brain farted on that point. I was thinking strictly the function of the mainspring specifically, that being how it affected hammer fall. turns out I was mistaken. my apologies
I purchased the Wolff spring kit. I can usually get away with using the 17lb spring and maintain positive ejection and cycling with 230g target loads
Browning designed the 1911 with a slight radius on the bottom of the FPS to slow down the slide, but some GI's had issues with pulling the slide back so they redesigned the bottom of the FPS the way we know it today and increased spring poundage to have the same effect but to make it easier to pull back.
Change your 23lb main spring with a 19lb and see what a difference it makes. You may want to play with a EGW oversized FPS and put a slight radius like the original.
Mine is heavy radius. I may have to try to fit one of those and see what happens.
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